Posted on 12/18/2004 5:56:30 PM PST by PatrickHenry
Spooky!
There is a certain arrogance among those who claim that the intelligent design group or the creationist group are not scientists because they do not adhere to random, unguided evolution. It is the equivalent of traditionalist Catholics denying the validity of the Eastern Orthodox or Anglican priesthood or hierarchy because those churches do not acknowledge Papal supremacy. To some, it appears that whether one is a scientist or not is dependent on their metaphysical views, not their credentials.
What if I like steaks and hamburgers?
There's always Voodoo.
You could try to be specific about this by answering a few questions:
Well that's the beauty of Kwanza!. All the voo and all the doo, together in one package.
Scientists are free to believe in miracles, but not in their professional work. If a scientist encounters something unexplainable, the default scientific position is "I don't know how this happened."
And it is as evidenced by the widely incompatible dating information reported by the system. I have pointed to examples of this that I can cite information on. Or you can look at Hovind's productions, Brown's productions, etc and so on because they all address it. You'd probably say - oh no, they get it all wrong. Doesn't hold water but that's what I expect. They can point to countless examples of inaccuracy and outright bunk figures. It only takes a few to sink it - as it happens, there are more than a few examples. They're rampant and plentiful.
astronomy would have to be wrong about the age and structure of the universe
No big leap, The speed of light from my understanding has been slowed to 1mph in the lab recently. That pretty much destroys much of science's guessing about distance to stars. If you can't garauntee a constant speed or that nothing can effectively slow light speed, you've no practical way of measuring distance or much of anything else. Red shift is also under attack from within the community right now. It isn't as though science is some grand fortress that's never wrong - quite the opposite. They're more often wrong to the point it's newsworthy if they get something right.
geology would have to be wrong in almost every detail
No, I'd take serious issue with that. I have a friend here locally who is a geologist and he thinks you guys are nuts. He isn't a Christian; but, he thinks ya'll are nutso.
biology would have to have made its last hundred years of advances based on a completely incorrect paradigm
Again, false, biology doesn't depend on evolution for anything save perhaps for funding. One can explore the Gnome without any reference to evolution - not a problem. It can explore cures for disease and the like with only a knowledge of limits of diversity which are readily apparent from farming. No evolution involved in that. Just the nature of life in general.. it doesn't evolve. It diversifies within limits; but, it doesn't evolve. Matter of symantics to you; but, a clear distinction.
and you would have to be smarter and more knowledgeable than the tens of thousands of scientists
Not too hard. Galileo was, The wright brothers were, Ben Franklin was, Edison was, etc. Appeals to consensus opinion is fallacy and you know it. It's also quite easy to blow out of the water with endless examples - which tells me you're really reaching because I'm sure you know better.
I'm no fan of sticking pins in dolls and bringing down curses on my enemies. What say you - which door will you choose?
Evolution is not unguided or random. It is guided and determined by selection, which is what Darwin discovered.
The acceptance of evolution as a historical fact does not require a theory of how or why mutations occur. Darwin had no such theory. He did not even have elementary genetic theory. Change could come from any of a number of causes, but changes are nothing without selection, which is the shaping force.
Here's some more:
Species have a bad habit of going extinct. Why is this, if evolution is true? Why don't they just "evolve" into something that keeps them truckin'?
What's with that little "chaos theory?" Has that now been disproven? Thanks, Happy Kwanza!
Evolution is not a belief. Evolution is a scientific theory. So the debate you seek is meaningless.
I appreciate your detailed response. I do not post with the expectation of convincing the opposition. I post for the hundreds of non-posting lurkers. I think you have answered some of the detailed questions I posed in #565.
I particularly appreciate your self-evaluation. That is priceless.
True. In some cases, such as the origins of life and the universe, we reach the outer limits of science and enter the realm of metaphysics. We also may engage in conflicting theories about the nature of knowledge.
Perhaps you could cite some statement from a juried publication or college textbook that would support your interpretation of evolution theory.
I'm curious. Are all of your ancestors still alive?
Don't play symantics with the discussion here. So what if it is a theory, scientific or otherwise. Some people believe evolution is how the world was created. Others belived in intellegent design creationism.
How does that make the point I raised meaningless?
Many that believe in science and evolution are also believers in God. Many that believe in science and evolution enjoy discussion of beliefs.
However, Young earth creationists are completely intolerant of any evolution being discussed.
Do you imagine that evolution exibits a direction, or that it forsees changing conditions?
Leave us not omit the mantra, "Science is self-correcting," which is an admission of the speculative nature of "scientific" speculation and its resultant errors. Science is not self-correcting regarding the atomic number of elements and other such known quantities. It is only self-correcting in relation to unknown quantities, much as a little kid in the principle's office is self correcting when caught in a lie.
Kwappy Hanza!
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