Skip to comments.GIRL WRESTLER: Should girls and boys should be able to wrestle on the same mat?
Posted on 12/19/2004 12:59:24 AM PST by quietolong
Texas teenager Tara Neal insists that girls and boys should be able to wrestle on the same mat.
Filmmaker Diane Zander follows Neal through the last year in which state guidelines allow her to wrestle boys.
It's a year filled with family conflict, pressure to cut weight and fierce policy debates over Title IX, which grants women's athletics proportionality in public schools
Link to show
(Excerpt) Read more at pbs.org ...
A no win situation. If you win. You beat up a girl. If you lose. You got beat by a girl.
Some just take a dive.
Is this the message we want to teach boys? Its OK to throw girls around?
One sad note from the update page:
After joining her high school wrestling team and still not being allowed to practice with or wrestle against boys, Tara decided to leave the team. In 2004, Tara and her boyfriend Andrew had a baby daughter.
Still in school and haveing a kid.
One interesting thing. As I was watching this show. One of my daughters who is a senior in HS ( wrestling is a Very big thing in our school) came in a watched the show.
And I asked her if theres any girls at our school who want to go out for this. And she said No.
As a matter of fact she said the teem was even trying to recruit some girls for the lower weight classes. So when they went to matches. The other teem would half to forfeit because there was no one in that weight class and the teem would get the points.
They found no takers.
To bad we got some good healthy farm girls ( and I dont mean fat) around here.
Heck my one daughter here can pickup and fling a 80 lb. bale of hay. ( and goes deer hunting too)
When I took judo as a teenager, I had to throw/get thrown by girls. When I took martial arts as an adult, my practice opponents were often women. I don't see the big deal, but I'm sure there will be plenty of opinions.
We had a girl wrestler on our team when I was a Junior. She was quite and athlete and although she was into the girl power thing, she was very christian and very conservative as well (I attempted to date her the next year but thats another story).
Anyway, She was our 103 Lb wrestler. why is that? She beat the guy trying to be the 103 lb wrestler (a freshman who ended up placing 5th at states 4 years later). She was strong, 103 lbs was very close to her natural weight. We got into some tournaments later in the year and she didnt have to cut weight, could run forever and was very strong for a girl. In her matches, she showed that she was stronger than the guys she was wrestling!!!
It isnt a sexual thing on the mat, it is one on one. Anyone seeing the girl for being a girl and not just as another competitor is wrong on all counts. The girls can hang, if given a chance. At least that is my experience.
I think you mean "team".
besides at 13-14 years old, they shoudl allow the kids to cut weight anyway. at least that is the way they did it at my high school in Ohio. If you were under 16, you werent cutting weight. You either bumped up and beat the guy in the weight class above you or you wrestled JV....
oops darn keyboard
besides at 13-14 years old, they shoudl allow the kids to cut weight anyway
having wrestled with a girl on the team, it isnt that horrible.
The girl I had on my team was just as much one of the guys as anyone else. She tried just as hard, never asked out or dropped out of runs and she was always intense. She would always do what the guys did (with the exception of grabass in the shower) and she won some matches.
If she beat the guys one on one, whats the deal? the better person won the match. If the kid took a dive it is his fault, he had to get the job done no matter who it is against. It isnt personal, its competition
Nope, practice only, not competitive, so I'll have to defer to others on the pros and cons there.
I don't have an issue with girls playing from a competitive standpoint. I simply acknowledge that adolescents being in such close proximity can be problematic. I would have felt very uncomfortable having to grab a girl in a wrestling hold but hey I was a shy kid too.
I only had to drill with Rebecca one time during practice, but considering I was much bigger at the time (I was the 215 LB class, she was the 103 LB), she held her own perfectly well.
It is up to the coaches to make sure the kids know it is a competition, because in just a few years, they will be competing with girls for jobs, scholarships and everything else. Gotta start somewhere, but you just cant look across the mat and see a girl. You need to see the girl as another competitor. It probably sounds too simple, but for me, it is really easy.
What do you think about woman in combat? Its really an off shoot of this.
I was in one of the first 2 west cost squadrons to integrate woman in to sea duty. So I have seen some of the problems first hand.
Given how much gripping and touching is involved (though it is not sexual) in wrestling I do see how this could be allowed right now given this country's lawsuit happy laywers and how high the risk a sexual harassment lawsuit, or sexual assult case would be presently.
Women will rue the day they tried to train men to view them as competitors.
laywers = lawyers
When my wife and I were dating 35 years ago, we wrestled all the time. My children wrestled all the time as they were growing up. This was FUN and TICKLING each other and so forth. FWIW, I do not support this. Further, I do not support women in the military if they are there to hunt husbands. Military is to execute WAR COMBAT solutions.
its an offshoot that is semi-related, but also two subjects with completely different circumstances and outcomes....
women in combat for me is a no. It has been documented why, but for the most part, they cannot handle the physical strain. MEN sometimes can't handle the physical strain from time to time, which is why the spec ops guys are the elite and our Infantry is right behind. YOU must be able to march with sometimes as much as 2/3rds your body weight in extreme cases. Half of your body weight is too much for a long journey, but if you have to carry a radio along with other things you will achieve that instantly. A woman's bone structure is such that there will be great strain on her knees and hips, not to mention back issues and ankle issues.
Women on the mat is a bit different. It isnt life or death. It is a competition. I have seen girls more than hold their own up to the 119 lb class. After that, the guys get too big and are too strong.
From experience, it isnt that bad. Just look at what I posted further up.
The coaches can hold great sway on this issue. Girls can hold their own in the lower classes at well. You would be surprised :)
and no it isnt at all sexual. Wrestlers have respect (they are supposed too at any rate) for each other...
I wrestled in high school but would NOT have wanted to wrestle a girl. If you've ever wrestled, you know your hands have to go wherever you can get a grip. If that's through the crotch and under the thigh or back, to help you get a cradle to pin your opponent, that's what you have to do--and your opponent is squirming, "bridging" (raising their shoulder blades above the mat by using their neck muscles) -- all this is normal and fine in the heat of the moment and is not sexual in same-sex matches. You put coed opponents in there, and you throw a HUGE new set of dynamics in there. Real wrestling is rough and hands are everywhere. Girls shouldn't be in the ring with boys. We had "Wrestlerettes" who cheered us. Sexist? No. Gender-appropriate. I didn't go out for Powderpuff Football, either, honey.
THis is a big deal -- I couldnt' hit a woman, my mind would stop my fist. School kids with the same mindset will keep losing to the girl
the kids need to learn to get the job done.
You arent hitting each other. At worst you will be on top of her, but it isnt in a sexual way. If you dont want to do it, forfeit. But for your teammates you go out there and do your level best to win that match and the points for your team.
Too much testosterone pride involved for a teenage guy to be whipped by a girl. Who says life is fair? ;-)
The boy should wrestle to win - beating down a girl is better than being beaten down by a girl, if you ask me. If she wants to compete, he should give her everything he has and not worry about where to grab her, etc. Just beat her (if he can).
And may the best athlete win, in any case! :-)
In organized sports like wrestling, a woman will be at a disadvantage because she will have a slightly higher percentage of body fat, which means she will have slightly less muscle. However, particularly in the lower weight classes, this disadvantage can be overcome with skill and fighting spirit.
I'm 46 and weigh 160 lbs. I work a 50-60 hour week, mostly sedentary. I run & lift weights, but am in no way a serious athlete. If I had to go in the ring with one of our women's judo olympic competitors, she could play with me as long as she felt like & finish me off at will - I wouldn't stand a chance.
That doesn't mean martial arts are an end all for women - after all, few women are serious athletes either. Fortunately, neither is the average thug. And the average thug isn't looking for someone he can beat after a 15 minute brawl. A woman who knows how to throw a real punch, or one who knows how to escape from a headlock/twisted arm, has a much better chance of escaping than someone who knows nothing. Unfortunately, most MAs are taught in McDojos where the woman is taught she is invincible - a real bad idea since size counts. There is a reason why there are weight classes in judo, boxing, etc.
As for wrestling, I'm on the side of "Let 'em try". Most will not be able to compete. Those that can are welcome to. Nor would I look down on a 130 lb boy who lost to a 130 lb girl - she may be only a few pounds lighter in muscle mass, and know more technique.
Women in combat - I'm opposed. The number of women who can pull their own weight isn't high enough to justify the effort, and there are too many sexual problems brought with them.
If I had to wrestle a girl I would do my up most to end her career on the mat, and I would do my up most to make her feel like she was in a cheap porno flick.
The lesson here is....girls stick to the field hockey and softball, and leave the real sports to the men.
You set up two straw men.
1 - No one on this thread has said a 110 pound woman has a decent chance against a 250 lb man. That is why there are weight classes. However, my 120 pound daughter did once put her 135 lb date face first on the floor of the mall after he decided to play with her tits (ended the date, BTW). And my wife has bloodied the nose of an instructor (academic) who asked her for sex (she didn't tell me about it until several years later).
2 - there are martial arts studios (majority, IMHO) where they take your money & teach nothing of value. That doesn't mean that punches, throws and locks do not exist, or cannot be taught.
I guess you would support men/women boxing too since they are also set by weight classifications?
310 lbs?????? bluidy heel, ye're a big lad, ain't you? I'm about 200 lbs myself and 6'1", but 310 lbs, sheesh, slamming into you would be like hitting a brick wall!!
that is when, as a coach, I tell you to forget the sex and wrestle the opponent for your team mates.....
It happens man...
My son's last year wrestling was 4 years ago, but we saw exactly what you're talking about several times. I think your summary of the issues is pretty good.
In many cases, wrestlers would forfeit rather than wrestle a girl. I really is just a bad deal all around.
As per your claim of straw dog #1, please refer to post # 22.
Wrestling is a *lot* more "intimate" than judo ever thought about being. I really just don't think mixed-gender martial wrestling is a good idea (martial as opposed to recreational, if you get my drift. . . ).
Again -- I'm not opposed to girls playing any sport they like -- including wrestling. I just don't think they should play contact sports with the guys -- it puts the guys in the spot and, in my opinion, at a disadvantage.
What you say sound good in theory but what are most boys taught from an early age.
Its not OK to hit girls, There are places you dont touch a girl & so on....
So now you take young boys and put them on the mat with a girl.
Were do you grab them? If you watch the story. You can see some of the boys trying to answer this. When they would normally do a quick clamp around the chest. There hesitating and pulling on the arms.
Remember were talking about 7 & up here.
You can squash a guy's eyeballs in or knee him in the groin. Its not for the faint of heart but its your life or the bad guy's, its no time to be squeamish.
I believe we are talking about amateur wrestling and not professional sports here....
Remember how big the womans NBA was to be? don't hear much about it anymore.
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