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44% of Americans Favor Curtailing Muslim Civil Liberties (or do we)
The Volokh Conspiracy ^ | December 18, 2004 at 12:10pm] | Orin Kerr

Posted on 12/19/2004 10:01:23 AM PST by chiller

What Do 44% of Americans Believe?:Newspapers and websites around the world are reporting what purport to be the results of a Cornell University poll on attitudes of Americans towards Muslims in the United States. The newspapers and websites are reporting that 44% of Americans say that they want to curtail the civil liberties of Muslim Americans.

Here is the summary from the Associated Press:
Nearly half of all Americans surveyed said they think the US government should restrict the civil liberties of Muslim Americans, according to a nationwide poll. . . .

The survey indicated that 44 percent of those surveyed said they favored at least some restrictions on the civil liberties of Muslim Americans. Forty-eight percent said liberties should not be restricted. These are extremely disturbing figures that will be accepted by hundreds of millions or even billions of people around the world.

But there is something important that the press reports overlook: the 44% of people polled did not actually say that they wanted to curtail the civil liberties of Muslim Americans. Rather, 44% of people reported views that the Cornell University pollsters themselves categorize as being support for the curtailment of the civil liberties of Muslim Americans.

I found the report on the poll here. It turns out that the pollsters asked people to agree or disagree with four statements:
1) Muslim civic and volunteer organizations should be infiltrated by undercover law enforcement agents to keep watch on their activities and fundraising.
2) U.S. government agencies should profile citizens as potential threats based on being Muslim or having Middle Eastern heritage.
3) Mosques should be closely monitored and surveilled by U.S. law enforcement agencies.
4) All Muslim Americans should be required to register their whereabouts with the federal government. For each of these statements, between 20 and 30 percent of the subjects agreed; most disagreed. Overall, the study reports, 29% of the subjects agreed with 2 or more of these statements, and 15% agreed with one of them. (Some of these numbers don't quite add up, I think, but see page 6 of the report for the figures.)

I don't want to be nitpicky, but am I right in thinking that a certain amount of spin is involved in how this poll is being reported? The pollsters made a judgment call that if you agree with any one of these statements, you are in favor of curtailing the civil liberties of Muslim Americans. Thus, the pollsters are claiming, and advocacy groups such as CAIR are trumpeting, that 44% of Americans are in favor of curtailing the civil liberties of Muslims.

But is that really what the poll shows? Most of the questions are quite vague, and use lots of buzzwords. Take the statement: "Muslim civic and volunteer organizations should be infiltrated by undercover law enforcement agents to keep watch on their activities and fundraising." There have been many press reports of Muslim civil and volunteer organizations being used as fronts for terrorist financing schemes. If you believe these reports are probably true, or just may be true, you might reasonably want the FBI to investigate the organizations. You would then answer that you agree with the statement. Does that really mean you want to curtail the civil liberties of Muslims?

Of course, this is not to say that the poll results are heartening. In particular, it is very disturbing that 29% of Americans would agree that "All Muslim Americans should be required to register their whereabouts with the federal government." I can imagine less damning explanations for this figure, but it is on the whole quite troubling. Nonetheless, the press reports around the world suggesting that 44% of Americans want to curtail civil liberties of Muslim Americans would appear to be at least misleading.


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: muslimamericans; muslims
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Sorry to be so crass, but I do.
1 posted on 12/19/2004 10:01:23 AM PST by chiller
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To: chiller

You know, I hate headlines like that. These pollsters only interview a select amount of people, and then they extrapolate the results onto the population at large. It annoys me when they such-and-such percent of Americans believe so-and-so, when really, they mean that that percentage of the people they interviewed believed that.

Sorry, off my soapbox now. FWIW, I think curtailing Muslims' civil rights is a VERY bad idea. What about the next group that offends people? Christians are a majority in this country, but hey...we offend people, and weren't McVeigh and Nichols Christian?

You see where I'm going with that.


2 posted on 12/19/2004 10:06:43 AM PST by exnavychick (Just my two cents, as usual.)
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To: chiller

Muslims have their civil rights as does anyone else. But we would be stupid not to profile them, we would be stupid to allow their organisations to send money to terrorists in the Middle east, we would be crazy to forget the fact that so many Muslims have already been caught aiding the enemy.
Didnt we profile Italians, Japanese, the German Bunds.

Civil rights are one thing defense is another.


3 posted on 12/19/2004 10:08:12 AM PST by sgtbono2002
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To: chiller

Our Constitution prohibits such action. Moslem citizens enjoy the same rights every other citizen enjoys. In the USA, we treat all citizens alike. Only if a citizen breaks the law are constitutional liberties restricted, and that only after due process.

We change this at our peril.


4 posted on 12/19/2004 10:08:37 AM PST by MineralMan (godless atheist)
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To: chiller

We are engaged in a bloody World War with muslims, we got to face up to the truth that radical muslims want to kill each and every one of us. No time for foolish self defeating political correctness on our part. We gotta do what needs to be done to defeat the enemy or else lose this conflict. President Bush are you listening? Take a lesson from the history of WWII and what was done for homeland security during that war..


5 posted on 12/19/2004 10:08:56 AM PST by aspiring.hillbilly
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To: exnavychick

Agreed. Agreed. And even though my brush is way too broad; Disagree. I'm not very 'down' with this religion of peace.


6 posted on 12/19/2004 10:10:26 AM PST by chiller (1 down (Jf'nK) and 1 to go (old media))
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To: chiller

Duplicate post.


7 posted on 12/19/2004 10:12:34 AM PST by tet68 ( " We would not die in that man's company, that fears his fellowship to die with us...." Henry V.)
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To: chiller
I had seen that headline and went HUH??? I used to believe in polls like I did Santa as a child. The curtain has been lifted on the poll takers' smarmy little tactics.

Thanks for the in-depth report.

8 posted on 12/19/2004 10:12:37 AM PST by daybreakcoming (Merry CHRISTmas to all)
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To: aspiring.hillbilly

Agreed. In the immortal words of someone: 'You got to do, what you got to do'!


9 posted on 12/19/2004 10:13:23 AM PST by Jazzman1
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To: chiller
"Nearly half of all Americans surveyed said they think the US government should restrict the civil liberties of Muslim Americans..."

How 'bout curtailing their breathing. Since they like flying so much, especially on 9/11, just load 'em up into a few dozen C5s and fly 'em into buildings destined for demolition. Solve two issues at once.

10 posted on 12/19/2004 10:14:50 AM PST by Cobra64 (Babes should wear Bullet Bras - www.BulletBras.net)
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To: MineralMan; Travis McGee
Well, we are already at peril MM.

There will have to be a third rail at some point between the literalism you expound and deportation/camps ala WWII.

Let some of their brethren achieve something truly cataclysmic with millions of deaths and we shall see how idealistic we remain about the religion of peace.

This is a an old enemy that has been at war with basically everyone else since it's founder walked the earth and they have proved time and again that they will do anything at their disposal to achieve their aims.

That is just as strong a reality as dangers to the Constitution may be. Personally, I find their culture and non assimilating nature incompatible here in the long run but that is one man's opinion.
11 posted on 12/19/2004 10:15:45 AM PST by wardaddy (Quisiera ser un pez para tocar mi nariz en tu pecera)
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To: exnavychick

Christian civil liberties are being curtailed, almost daily, in this country. It is already happening.


12 posted on 12/19/2004 10:15:45 AM PST by ican'tbelieveit
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To: MineralMan

Our Constitution does not prohibit any such curtailment for non-citizens who are in this county illegally or on travel visas or any citizens who are giving aid and comfort to an ememy of the US.

Section. 3.

Clause 1: Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court.

Clause 2: The Congress shall have Power to declare the Punishment of Treason, but no Attainder of Treason shall work Corruption of Blood, or Forfeiture except during the Life of the Person attainted.


13 posted on 12/19/2004 10:15:49 AM PST by aspiring.hillbilly
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To: chiller
"Islam is", Khataw preaches, "a peaceful religion that is focused on charity and goodwill toward others."

~ and ~

"Not to mention that Islam came to save humanity from ignorance and oppression. Islam is not a threat to any society. Islam calls for harmony and peaceful co-existence with other religions. It does not permit aggression, violence, injustice, or oppression. At the same time, it calls to morality, justice, tolerance, and peace."

Ummmm, no; no it's not. I won't go into *what it is*, as I'd probably get in trouble... aw, what the heck:

Islam, The Cult of Murder™.

Islam, The Cult of Terror™.

Islam, The Cult of Boy-Buggering™.

Islam, The Cult of Women-Chattelling™.

Islam, The Cult of Horror™.

Islam, The Cult of Rape™.

Islam, The Cult of Ritual Killing™.

Islam, The Cult of Beheading™.

Islam, The Cult of Deviants™.

Islam, The Cult of Hate™.

Islam, The Cult of Lies™.

Islam, The Cult of Female Mutilation™.

Islam, The Cult of Death™.

Islam, The Cult of Christian & Jew Killing™.

Islam, The Cult of Infidel Murder™.

Islam, The Cult of The Mentally-Ill™.

Islam, the Cult of Evil™.

Islam, the Cult of Poverty™.

Islam, the Cult of Illiteracy™.

Islam, the Religion of Peace™, and THEY'LL KILL YOU TO PROVE IT!

14 posted on 12/19/2004 10:15:55 AM PST by 7.62 x 51mm (• veni • vidi • vino • visa • "I came, I saw, I drank wine, I shopped")
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To: chiller

I'm not either. That being said, I don't think taking away civil rights on the basis of religon is good. There are lots of folks who believe that Christianity is a dangerous religon as well, even though we fervently believe otherwise. There are no doubt Muslims who feel the same way. I don't want people's rights curtailed when they haven't done anything wrong.

I agree with sgtbono who said we would be stupid not to profile Muslims (Middle Eastern people) on the basis of some seriously silly PC baloney. If they've done nothing wrong, then they should have nothing to fear, neither profiling, or that their civil rights will be curtailed.


15 posted on 12/19/2004 10:21:15 AM PST by exnavychick (Just my two cents, as usual.)
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To: ican'tbelieveit

I don't think that's right either. Two wrongs DO NOT make a right. That's what I was raised to believe, anyway.


16 posted on 12/19/2004 10:22:02 AM PST by exnavychick (Just my two cents, as usual.)
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To: ican'tbelieveit
"Christian civil liberties are being curtailed, almost daily, in this country. It is already happening."

...to complete your thought; 'because of poliltical correctness toward Muslims."

17 posted on 12/19/2004 10:24:56 AM PST by chiller (1 down (Jf'nK) and 1 to go (old media))
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To: exnavychick

I understand your argument, however, these callings for the curtailing of civil rights has been waged against Christians already, and NONE of us are supporting the murder or takeover by violence of this country at any time.

Muslims, however, have been calling for the overthrow of this country by means of Jihad for 20 years now, and Steve Emerson proved it with his investigations into the mosques.

I absolutely believe questions 1-3 are a yes, I am 50% on question 4, I dont think we need that yet.

But questions 1-3...absolutely yes.


18 posted on 12/19/2004 10:25:28 AM PST by RaceBannon (Arab Media pulled out of Fallujah; Could we get the MSM to pull out of America??)
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To: RaceBannon

I'll have to agree to disagree, then. :)


19 posted on 12/19/2004 10:28:40 AM PST by exnavychick (Just my two cents, as usual.)
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To: chiller
Sorry, reacting to the bait simply validates the figues.

Until the questions used to establish those percentages are made available, all these numbers are suspect.

Bottom line? The results do not seem to be from people who are even tangentially aware of world events (the only ones entitled to an opinion).
The figures are low by about 50%.

"Muslim-Americans"? What kind of an abortion is that?
I reject it completely and permanently.

20 posted on 12/19/2004 10:28:55 AM PST by Publius6961 (The most abundant things in the universe are hydrogen and stupidity.)
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