Posted on 12/21/2004 7:22:37 AM PST by AllTheRage
WASHINGTON - President Bush (news - web sites) on Monday renewed his call for a guest worker program for immigrants seeking employment in the United States, saying the Border Patrol shouldn't be chasing "goodhearted people who are coming here to work."
Bush has wanted such a program since taking office four years ago. But the idea was sidetracked by the Sept. 11 attacks and then left on the sideline because the White House did not want to tackle such a controversial issue during an election year.
Alot of us are good hearted. What if we all break laws in the name of doing something for our families?
Our laws must be upheld.
Put the pointer on it and it says virtual tape.com
I'll leave it to God to judge their hearts. Your job as president, on the other hand, is to enforce our immigration laws. If you don't like them, then run as a legislator and have them changed. If you don't enforce them, then you're no better than an activist judge...
I don't see a problem with this.
We get people over here on a guest worker card, they can go back and forth across the border LEGALLY and can see their families at home, local companies want to hire them, we get people documented, where is the problem?
... and the flow of actual illegals wandering around in the wilderness decreases, which makes it much easier for the Border Patrol to catch them. You're right, and President Bush is right - this is a good plan.
We aint going to pay for it; Presently this year 2004 California State's "cheap labor" costs the average household $1,183. These cost a year area a whopping 10-fold increase from ten years ago and there is no end in sight. The Urban Institute estimated that California was subsidizing illegal immigrants to the tune of about $10.5 Billion annually while in 1994 it was $1.1 billion.
Do the math, if the guest amnesty program increases the rate of influx at an exponential rate, the $1,183 a year each legal us resident is paying now, subsiding cheep labor, in 10 years from now would be $10,000 per year per family. This is socialism at the core; our countries capitalist democracy is under threat!
Terrorism is the systematic use of terror especially as a means of coercion committed by groups in order to intimidate a population or government into granting their demands. Legal groups such as MALDEF and Mexican government lobbies are key instigators in this economic terrorism;
Co-founder of MALDEF, Mario Obledo, to whom President Clinton awarded the U.S. Presidential Medal of Freedom, boasted, “California is going to be a Hispanic state. Anyone who doesn’t like it should leave." He added: "Every constitutional office in California is going to be held by Hispanics in the next 20 years.” Jose Pescador Osuna, former Mexican Consul General in Los Angeles, said, "Even though I’m saying this part serious and part joking, I believe we are practicing 'La Reconquista' in California." Past Mexican president Ernesto Zedillo, in 1997, speaking before the national council of La Raza, was not half-joking when he said: "I have proudly affirmed that the Mexican nation extends beyond the territory enclosed by its borders and that Mexican migrants are an important – a very important – part of this." And Mexico’s current president, Vicente Fox has marched La Reconquista forward by having convinced President Bush to provide legal status for millions of illegals.
REF:
http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/immigrationnaturalizatio/a/caillegals.htm
http://www.martynemko.com/pub/articles/Guestworker.shtm
If I rob a 7-11 to feed my family is it okay?
There are only 2-3 things that I disagree witht he President on, but this is #1 and I disagree MIGHTILY!!
then we put up an ARMY of INS workers to stop the flow of illegals
end result- we document who is coming in and out as guest workers, and we stregthen out borders
I think it's good, too. A point I have been making is that many of these illegals actually do not want to stay in this country, beyond the length of time required to earn enough money to support their families at home. Most of them in Florida, for example, try to go back to Mexico after they have finished whatever seasonal work it is they are doing. This would make it easier for them to leave, and I think it would actually result in fewer of them staying here for long periods of time. IIRC, they are not allowed to bring their families under this plan.
I renew my call for the president to start listening to the will of the great majority of Americans and halt (rather than ignore) the breaking of our immigration laws. I suspect the president, like most of the gasbags inside the Beltway, is not rubbing elbows with many illegal aliens these days: those who drive like maniacs on our roads (with or without licenses and insurance), who are committing crimes in disproportionately larger numbers, and are making their presence felt in a big way in taxpayer funded government schools and hospitals. Come on, Mr. President, come out to the hinterland, move next door to an illegal barrio for a couple of years, and then renew your proposal.
Let's just roll out the red carpet for all 50 million or whatever mexicans to come live here.
Sheesh!
Imagine if Clinton was pushing this agenda, or Gore, or Kerry. I doubt there would be near as many freepers willing to be so open-minded about "guest worker" programs.
I find it amazing that suddenly, so called "conservatives" are willing to award people who break American laws. That used to be a lib concept.
All your disk are belong to us.
The problem is I am an American, not a social service worker for Mexicans.
WQhat if we had this guest worker program AND a total crackdown on illegals? I think that would be a good plan
If this is the same plan that was presented last year, this plan calls for 250,000 guest workers. Included in this plan was "compassion" for the family members. Each guest will be allowed to bring 5 family members with him. As Bush mentioned in the debates, he doesn't blame a person wanting to come here for a job that pays $5.50 an hour. So the question is, how is this guest going to support a family of 5 on $5.50 an hour? Are you ready for 25 million more immigrants? Then there will be the problem of anchor babies. Surely, we wouldn't want to send the family back to Mexico after 3 years when they have a legitimate American baby to raise.
Bush is ignoring the fact that about 80% of the country wants our immigration laws enforced.......not amnesty. The lines "willing workers for jobs that Americans won't do" and "they just want to feed their families" will be repeated ad nausem.
He believes if you say it enough it will become true. The problem is that politicians are living behind guards in gated communities. Regular Americans aren't. They know the truth.
I don't believe there'll be a "crackdown"! Not for a SECOND!
The laws are obviously broken--Americans are voting with their dollars. When the people begin to ignore an unpopular or unsupported law, the law should be changed to reflect the will of the people.
Last year, the Mexico newspapers stated that the guest would be allowed 5 family members. I don't know if this is true or not but it definitely needs to be looked into. There is no way a guest can support 5 family members on $5.50 an hour and not resort to welfare of some kind.
Its all just the abandonment of principle for political expediency. Not to mention the hypocrisy. We truly get the government we deserve.
JMO, I think you are making things up out of air, here is what the President said earlier this year.
"Our homeland will be more secure when we can better account for those who enter our country," he said. "Instead of the current situation, in which millions of people are unknown ... law enforcement will face few problems with undocumented workers and will be better able to focus on the true threats to our nation from criminals and terrorists," he said.
But while temporary workers will have the opportunity to try to stay in the United States permanently, they will be encouraged to return to their home countries with financial incentives and, if they do decide to stay, will have to compete with migrants outside the country for the limited number of immigration slots, the president said.
"I oppose amnesty -- placing undocumented workers on the automatic path to citizenship," he said. "Granting amnesty encourages the violation of our laws and perpetuates illegal immigration. America's a welcoming country. But citizenship must not be the automatic reward for violating the laws of America."
I wonder--most people want the tide of illegal immigrants stemmed. And most people prefer a balanced intake of legal immigration (as opposed to 90% Mexican). How is it politically expedient to thumb your nose at that much of the American public? Is it something more sinister than political expediency?
Yeah...and many pregnant ones hop on over to good ole generous (with tax payers money) el Norte...and deliver a brand new US citizen...
Keep up the good work el Presidente Jorge...
Patrones...gotta love em....or else....
I expect to be able to keep the cash as I'm sure that Bush will announce an amnesty before too long as I'm so good-hearted and I'm just providing for my family by withdrawing money that Americans don't want to withdraw. The whole adventure was kind of annoying and dangerous for me so I'm going to lobby Congress to make a "guest withdrawal" program at all of the banks which will give me special access to make my withdrawals. I won't need a gun or anything and I'll even be able to pay taxes on the cash I withdraw through such a program.
Thanks to George Bush I've seen that earning money like everyone else and waiting in line like everyone else is not necessary. I can just break the law, take what I want no matter the expense to everyone else, just as long as I'm good-hearted, trying to provide a better life for my family, and I pay my taxes on what I obtain. Bush rocks!!!
< /sarcasm >
It definitely should be, although I wouldn't take the word of Mexican newspapers for anything, frankly.
Speaking of Mexico, one thing I would like to see come out of this is better compliance by Mexico with existing pacts on extradition of criminals, etc. I am hoping that when the serious negotiations begin, this will be part of it.
One thing that upsets me with people on FR who foam at the mouth and just imagine illegal immigrants will disappear if only they wish hard enough is that they are not making realistic contributions to this debate. This is a time when we actually could be helpful in shaping the policy (which has got to change one way or the other, because it just ain't working right now). So it would be nice to see constructive comments or questions - for example, such as yours, regarding how many family members are allowed in.
I wish he'd stop this nonsense. His love affair with Vicente Fox is killing this country.
The political expediency comes from the voter side. You can bet if it was Dem doing this, the same people who support Bush's proposal would be howling.
I am not open minded, this is a terrible idea that totally sucks its for the sole benefit of business interests looking for cheap labor, the unlimited cheap labor causes US citizens diminished job opportunities in a labor market that has been Tight for the whole of w's first term. They will open the floodgates and issue some kind of ID card, this will shortly be counterfeited and sold on the black market, thus "legalizing" millions of illegals here now. If we refuse to police the mexican border as it is now, how the F**k are we going to enforce whatever rules are associated with guest workers? Its is a disaster in the making and our only hope is that Congress doesn't vote it into law. The president is totally displeasing the bulk of his voters with this! We need to nag our reps not to let this travesty pass.
You could say that about a lot of things.
"I oppose amnesty -- placing undocumented workers on the automatic path to citizenship," he said. "Granting amnesty encourages the violation of our laws and perpetuates illegal immigration. America's a welcoming country. But citizenship must not be the automatic reward for violating the laws of America."
If the president really opposes amnesty, why did he support the stripping from the security reform bill, outlawed drivers license and Mexican counsel IDs? Allowing these documents to foreign nationals who are overstaying and illegally working in the US is in effect an extension of a “guest amnesty program" and we need to call it for what it is.
If president Bush wants to paint lipstick on a pig, that doesn’t change the fact it still a hog. He must be taking lessons from Clinton who can say he doesn’t smoke marijuana because he doesn’t inhale or does not have illicit sexual relations because he chooses to define what the word “is” is.
I don't agree. I would say the majority of Americans who legally immigrated from Mexico don't like this idea, and there are far more people getting upset about this Achille's heal of Bush's than there will be new Republican converts should this foolish program be implemented--after all, no one's talking about citizenship or voting rights here, only legalized employment.
I don't see the political expediency...
Yes, just think of all of the tax money that could be collected off of illegal activity!
It's a shame that so many are put in danger while breaking the law also. /sarc
Thanks for that intelligent reply ("bullhockey" is a great word)
I really am asking serious questions and only want to debate it. If you can convince me I am wrong I wont mind. But so far I have heard nothing that convinces me.
Forged documents are always a problem
Exactly. And if we can't or won't police the border now, how will we then?
Phony Mexican IDs for sale in Los Angeles park
Los Angeles, U.S., July 23, 2003 (EFE) - A burgeoning black market here frequented by illegal immigrants has a new product: the forged "matricula consular," an official Mexican document some states accept for opening a bank account or getting a driver's license.
http://www.quepasa.com/content/?c=104&id=174198
I wonder how the border patrol feels about this statement.
I ask this because in 1986 , the GOP promised the country that if the "One time only amnesty for illegals" was passed that the government (and GOP) would get serious about enforcing immigration laws, they promised to punish employers of illegals. The party and the government never keep that promise, if they had we would not be having the debate all over again. Since they failed to keep their promise in 86, no one should believe thier promise in 04.
20 million illegals (yes 20 million) will be granted citizenship and over the next ten years or so 30 million more will illegally come here and we will do this all over again. Each wave brings more and more.
The political expediancy comes from business owners who want a reliable source of cheap labor. Bush (and most politicians) are beholden to those who contributed lavishly to his campaign.
Precisely. But the Bushbots "don't see anything wrong with it".
Ask the families of those 6 dead hunters in Wisconsin how well our immigration system is working these days!
I think the old terms "conservative" and "liberal" are essentially meaningless anymore.
Which is for reducing the size of government?
Which is for fiscal discipline?
Which is for strong immigration policy?
Which is for protecting "rights" of the "average" person?
I'd say neither in all cases...
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