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NEXT GENERATION F/A-22 RAPTOR: Stealth fighter crashes
Las VegasReview Journal ^ | 12/21/04 | Brean

Posted on 12/21/2004 12:44:35 PM PST by pabianice

Nellis pilot ejects safely before impact

The charred wreckage of an F/A-22 Raptor aircraft lies at the end of a runway at Nellis Air Force Base, where it crashed Monday during takeoff.

In the first reported crash of the military's next generation fighter jet, an F/A-22 Raptor slammed into the ground and exploded during takeoff at Nellis Air Force Base Monday afternoon.

The pilot, whose name was not released, ejected safely moments before the crash.

He was taken to Mike O'Callaghan Federal Hospital for evaluation. A Nellis spokeswoman said he was "up and walking around."

A fire engine based at Nellis flipped over as it sped to the scene of the crash, but nobody was injured in the wreck, an Air Force official said.

The crash marked the first mishap involving a Raptor since the Air Force began taking delivery of the aircraft two years ago.

The unarmed F/A-22 destroyed Monday was assigned to the 53rd Wing's 422 Test and Evaluation Squadron. It was one of about 25 Raptors the Air Force has received so far, and one of eight assigned to the testing program that began at Nellis in January 2003.

Equipped with stealth technology to help it evade enemy aircraft, the twin-engine Raptor flies fast enough to cross the 12,000-square-mile Nellis range in seven minutes. It can drop bombs, fire air-to-air missiles and shoot a six-barrel cannon.

But as the cost of the F/A-22 has swelled, estimates range from $130 million to $250 million each, the number of aircraft the Pentagon plans to buy has shrunk from 750 to about 300, according to the Government Accountability Office.

Nellis Air Force Base expects to receive nine more Raptors in the next five or six years. The aircraft is scheduled to become combat ready in 2005.

"It is by far the most advanced aircraft, not only in the U.S. fleet but in the world," said Maj. Gen. Stephen Goldfein, commander of Nellis' Air Warfare Center.

Goldfein said all aircraft at the base will be grounded this morning until the crash site is inspected in daylight. The seven remaining Raptors at Nellis will undergo a thorough inspection before they are flown again, he said.

The inspections could take hours and be done today or they could take several days, Goldfein said.

"The purpose, of course, is to prevent anything like this from happening again," he said. "Obviously, we are looking for the specific reason why the accident occurred."

Goldfein said the plane wasn't high off the ground when the pilot ejected from the cockpit.

"As soon as the pilot grabs the handle, within a second the whole system works," he said of the ejection process.

Nellis closed its runways immediately following the accident, which sent a large plume of black smoke billowing into the sky over North Las Vegas.

Four F-16C Fighting Falcons assigned to the Air Force's precision Thunderbirds flying team landed at McCarran International Airport while the runways at Nellis were closed. McCarran spokeswoman Debbie Millett said the arrival of the Thunderbirds did not cause any delays for commercial flights.

The crash was at least the fourth involving a military aircraft in Southern Nevada this year.

On Nov. 9, a $40 million Navy F-18 Hornet went down north of Las Vegas shortly after take-off. Both the pilot, who ejected safely, and his single-seat aircraft were assigned to the Oceana Naval Air Station in Virginia.

In June, an Air Force pilot safely ejected from a military jet that crashed during a training mission about 70 miles northeast of Las Vegas.

Five people were killed in a March crash involving an Air Force plane ferrying contractors to a remote part of the Nellis Test Range about 125 miles northwest of the base.

The last known crash within Nellis Air Force Base itself occurred in March 1996, when an F-15C Eagle fighter jet slammed into the ground and exploded on takeoff. The Langley, Va., pilot ejected safely.

The only other reported accident involving the F-22 was a non-fatal crash landing that occurred during testing and development of the aircraft at Edwards Air Force Base in 1992.


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Government; News/Current Events; US: Nevada
KEYWORDS: eject; fa22; fa22raptor; nellisafb; planecrash
Prayers.
1 posted on 12/21/2004 12:44:35 PM PST by pabianice
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To: pabianice
"In the first reported crash of the military's next generation fighter jet, an F/A-22 Raptor slammed into the ground and exploded during takeoff at Nellis Air Force Base Monday afternoon."

I think this statement is incorrect. I remember during testing an F22 having a strange instability on takeoff where it went up and down in sort of a sine wave before crashing. Nobody was hurt in that case. If I remember correctly it turned out to be a software problem.
2 posted on 12/21/2004 12:48:00 PM PST by Moral Hazard (With a pickle mind we kick the nipple beer.)
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To: Moral Hazard
"The only other reported accident involving the F-22 was a non-fatal crash landing that occurred during testing and development of the aircraft at Edwards Air Force Base in 1992."

Ooops, guess I should read the whole articles before I post.
3 posted on 12/21/2004 12:49:19 PM PST by Moral Hazard (With a pickle mind we kick the nipple beer.)
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To: Moral Hazard

Them computer bugs can be deadly!


4 posted on 12/21/2004 12:51:18 PM PST by Ernest_at_the_Beach (A Proud member of Free Republic ~~The New Face of the Fourth Estate since 1996.)
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach

I have a friend who is an F-15 instructor at Nellis. He know the pilot. It's not good news for the Raptor program because the crash is likely mechanical since it barely occurred after takeoff. In fact, my source was taxying on the runway when it happened.


5 posted on 12/21/2004 12:54:09 PM PST by CWW
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To: pabianice

Not the only Raptor to crash hard. :)

6 posted on 12/21/2004 12:58:09 PM PST by anymouse
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To: CWW

Why mechanical? Could it be a computer control problem?


7 posted on 12/21/2004 12:58:51 PM PST by Truth29
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To: Moral Hazard
Ooops, guess I should read the whole articles before I post.

Why? The people who write them don't.

In the first reported crash of the military's next generation fighter jet, an F/A-22 Raptor slammed into the ground and exploded during takeoff at Nellis Air Force Base Monday afternoon.
...
The only other reported accident involving the F-22 was a non-fatal crash landing that occurred during testing and development of the aircraft at Edwards Air Force Base in 1992.

8 posted on 12/21/2004 12:59:57 PM PST by Oztrich Boy (Never Apologise. Never Explain)
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To: pabianice
Government Accountability Office

Now there's a government office we need more of.

9 posted on 12/21/2004 1:01:42 PM PST by Last Dakotan
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To: Moral Hazard; pabianice

> I remember during testing an F22 having a strange
> instability on takeoff where it went up and down
> in sort of a sine wave before crashing.

That was the YF-22 prototype, April 25, 1992.

PIO (Pilot-Induced Oscillation) due to an unfortunate
coincidence of the computer flight control laws and
the reactions of the pilot. Not at all uncommon in
early flights of fly-by-wire a/c.

PIO was my first thought when I saw today's news, but
chances are it's some other problem. This is why test
flights are test flights.


10 posted on 12/21/2004 1:06:42 PM PST by Boundless
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To: CWW

ABC Radio news said the F22, er, make that all F22's were grounded, pending...


11 posted on 12/21/2004 1:06:53 PM PST by Calvin Locke
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To: pabianice

Military fighters aircraft all crash at some point. This will not be the last F-22 to bite it. A fighter aircraft attrition rate is expected. Today, fighters are less at being lawn darts than the early days. By looking at the crash rates of today versus the fighter A/Cs during the 50s, 60, and 70s, today's fighters are much more safer.

In the past, the AF would lose many planes. At the end of the year, you could read the AF Times which showed the yearly tally which could reach over 100 lost A/C per year.


12 posted on 12/21/2004 1:19:09 PM PST by demlosers
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To: Boundless
From what I know that YF-22 crash was because the pilot failed to disable the thrust-vectoring when taking off. The vectoring was not meant for takeoff use and that caused the PIO. If such s system is still used (the pilot has to be sure it is off) then the same thing could have happened. That is pure speculation though. They probably changed the system. That is an incredibly complex aircraft so a great many things could have gone wrong. My money would be on a software problem.
13 posted on 12/21/2004 1:19:24 PM PST by TalonDJ
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To: pabianice
, the number of aircraft the Pentagon plans to buy has shrunk from 750 to about 300, according to the Government Accountability Office.

. . . while we send Africa $15,000,000,000 to maintain their unsafe sexual practices.

14 posted on 12/21/2004 1:24:11 PM PST by Dont_Tread_On_Me_888 (John Kerry--three fake Purple Hearts. George Bush--one real heart of gold.)
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To: pabianice
But as the cost of the F/A-22 has swelled, estimates range from $130 million to $250 million each, the number of aircraft the Pentagon plans to buy has shrunk from 750 to about 300, according to the Government Accountability Office.


Stupid reporter. If you have half the aircraft to spread the cost of R&D and start-up over, it is no wonder the contract cost per unit has gone up almost double. I have never heard of one government contract that reduced its' buy amount down (after contract award) where the cost per unit delivered hadn't gone up.

15 posted on 12/21/2004 1:28:29 PM PST by jettester (I got paid to break 'em - not fly 'em)
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To: Moral Hazard

I saw that video too. But was it a manned flight? And was it a total loss, or did it slide in on it's belly? I can't remember.

Red6


16 posted on 12/21/2004 1:30:43 PM PST by Red6
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To: jettester

Halving the buy, doubles the unit price. Simple math.


17 posted on 12/21/2004 1:32:05 PM PST by Tallguy
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To: jettester

"Stupid reporter"

Agreed. Reporters need to take at least basic economics before writing on subjects like this. Maybe then they could understand the difference between fixed and marginal costs.


18 posted on 12/21/2004 1:35:42 PM PST by Moral Hazard (With a pickle mind we kick the nipple beer.)
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To: CWW

What crash is ever good news for a program?


19 posted on 12/21/2004 1:37:29 PM PST by Blueflag (Res ipsa loquitor)
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To: Red6
"I saw that video too. But was it a manned flight? And was it a total loss, or did it slide in on it's belly? I can't remember. "

Boundless seems to know more about it than I do, but what I remember was that it was manned, but that it basically ended up doing a belly landing with the pilot not being hurt. The plane didn't look destroyed afterwards, but I have no idea what the actual damages were.
20 posted on 12/21/2004 1:39:11 PM PST by Moral Hazard (With a pickle mind we kick the nipple beer.)
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To: demlosers

These are complex machines. During WW2, out Navy lost more A/C to accidents than to the Japanese. Still, we know the outcome. Just happy the guy is OK!


21 posted on 12/21/2004 1:45:24 PM PST by investigateworld (( You may spel-chek at your option ))
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To: pabianice
Whew, thankfully the pilot ejected safely.

...while a quarter billion taxpayer dollars goes up in flames.

Our military definitely needs less expensive warplanes.

22 posted on 12/21/2004 2:08:48 PM PST by xrp (Executing assigned posting duties flawlessly -- ZERO mistakes)
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To: xrp
Our military definitely needs less expensive warplanes.

The $250 million dollar price tag for this airplane includes a lot of project development costs which have already been sunk. The cost to replace the aircraft is far less. Still a lot of $$$, but less.

I think that pilotless aircraft are the wave of the future. But the pilots on this site will tell you that the air combat mission is probably the last task that drones will able to achieve.

23 posted on 12/21/2004 2:39:43 PM PST by Tallguy
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To: Tallguy
Pilotless aircraft? YIKES!

HK from Terminator movies.

24 posted on 12/21/2004 2:51:36 PM PST by xrp (Executing assigned posting duties flawlessly -- ZERO mistakes)
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To: xrp
Our military definitely needs less expensive warplanes.

Don't buy into that crap. That scam was proposed by noneother than former Senator Gary 'Monkey Business' Hart, who urged that our armed forces should rely less on high technology, and simplify everything to the point where our pilots would be flying somewhat more modern versions of the F-86 and F-100 jet fighters.

Yes, the planes (and other military equipment) are expensive as Hell, but what price do we put on our armed forces who defend our freedom with those weapons, and at what point do we declare the cost of victory over our enemies to be prohibitive?

We're at war, damn the deficits, we need to be on a war-footing industrial production wise, and that is one of the few issues I have with our esteemed President.
25 posted on 12/21/2004 2:52:59 PM PST by Mad Mammoth
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To: Mad Mammoth

Good points, I take back my comment.


26 posted on 12/21/2004 2:54:55 PM PST by xrp (Executing assigned posting duties flawlessly -- ZERO mistakes)
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To: Moral Hazard

"during testing an F22 having a strange instability on takeoff where it went up and down in sort of a sine wave"

You are correct there was a crash, which was cause by the software that controlled the fly-by-wire: The space shuttle had the same problem. It cause the pilot to over steer.


27 posted on 12/21/2004 2:57:43 PM PST by JeffersonRepublic.com
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To: Tallguy
Actually, TG, the largest majority of reasons why aircraft designs look the way they do has less to do with creating a platform to deliver weapons effectively than to build a vehicle that can survive battle and bring a pilot home again. This supports your first statement about the wave of the future which I agree with.

However, aircraft designs would depart radically from existing ones if they were created to search and destroy other "flying targets" without the benefit of a pilot on board. A pilot provides the highest level of intelligence (on site) whether to shoot or not shoot - engineering has not as yet found a suitable replacement that gives the same level of assurance.

This is similar to the argument about why commercial airliners are designed with the cockpit up front. Engineers, if they had their druthers, would probably put the pilots as near the engines/control surfaces as possible to minimize the equipment between input and output devices. I heard it argued that the "only reason" the planes are built this way today is because the flying public has greater confidence knowing the pilot is in the front and would "hit" whatever first, thus believing flying is safer because of this design.
28 posted on 12/21/2004 3:13:19 PM PST by jettester (I got paid to break 'em - not fly 'em)
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To: Red6

Tom Morgenfeld was the pilot. The aircraft in question was too badly damaged. It was used as a ground instructional airframe before it ended up in the USAF Museum, Dayton, Ohio


29 posted on 12/21/2004 3:58:22 PM PST by Tommyjo
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To: CWW
It's not good news for the Raptor program because the crash is likely mechanical since it barely occurred after takeoff. In fact, my source was taxying on the runway when it happened.

This is why I am inclined to think this may have been caused by a maintenance issue/mistake i.e something was not squared away right to fail at takeoff, maintained crew no up to speed on the new design service issue...

Inherent design issue failed this late in the game usual happen in an unusually or unforeseen event not on a simple takeoff.... that stated... I could very well be full of it :>

30 posted on 12/21/2004 5:29:10 PM PST by tophat9000 (We didn’t rise they sunk look at the blue, water filled, sink holes map (Mike Moore Fatass divots ?)
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To: Blueflag

A proto B-29 crashed, and the type went on to distunguish itself as the bomber that ended the Pacific War by dropping 2 atomic bombs on Japan.


31 posted on 12/21/2004 5:54:29 PM PST by aspiring.hillbilly
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