Infidel in search of some justice...
Sharper Minds Daily...
Posted on 12/23/2004 10:40:12 PM PST by velocityguy
Dec. 23, 2004, 9:17PM
Local Muslim school taken aback by letter Its request to join a state group is met by 'hostile' queries By EDWARD HEGSTROM Copyright 2004 Houston Chronicle
A national Islamic organization has demanded an apology from a Texas-based private school association after claiming its director took an "alarmingly intolerant and hostile attitude toward Islam and Muslims."
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The protest by the Washington, D.C.-based Council on American-Islamic Relations was prompted by a letter sent by the Texas Association of Private and Parochial Schools to the representatives of an Islamic school in Houston.
Dar-Ul-Arqam, which enrolls more than 300 students at three area locations under the supervision of the Islamic Education Institute of Texas, has been seeking membership for its Adel Road campus in the private school association, known as TAPPS. The association includes 238 schools across the state, including Awty International School, Incarnate Word Academy, Northland Christian School and St. Thomas High School in the Houston area.
Membership typically expands opportunities for private-school students to compete against other schools in academic and athletic events.
The letter, apparently signed by TAPPS Director Edd Burleson, has the American Civil Liberties Union of Texas calling for an investigation, according to Alamdar Hamdani, a Houston member of the ACLU board. The Anti-Defamation League also has expressed concern.
In his correspondence, Burleson quoted a verse from the Quran as calling on Muslims to be violent toward Christians and Jews. He noted that most TAPPS member schools are Christian. "Why do you wish to join an organization whose membership is basically in total disagreement with your religious beliefs?" he asked in the two-page letter, which included 10 questions.
He asks about the school's attitude toward "the spread of Islam in America" and the goals of the school "in this regard."
Finally, he suggests that some TAPPS members may not be tolerant of Muslims: "Why do you think that the current member schools of TAPPS will not be biased against your school, based on the fundamental difference in your religion and Christianity, since about 90% of TAPPS schools embrace Christianity?"
Both the TAPPS office and most member schools were closed Wednesday because of the holiday. Burleson did not return phone messages or e-mails this week. Charles Price, the chairman of the TAPPS board, declined to comment, referring all questions to Burleson.
Iesa Galloway, the executive director of the Council on American-Islamic Relations' Houston office, said Burleson sent a similar letter to an Islamic school in the Dallas area. He said he was awaiting details of that case.
Besides demanding an apology, Galloway's group has asked for reprimands against those responsible for the letter.
"The TAPPS letter, a symbol of religious intolerance, has no place in a nation that was originally built by those seeking asylum from such intolerance," Galloway said in correspondence he sent this week to the TAPPS board.
Dar-Ul-Arqam's Adel Road campus enrolls some 175 students and already participates in the Grapevine-based Private School Interscholastic Association, according to Khaled Katbi, a school representative.
But that association's programs are only available through middle school. So representatives of Dar-Ul-Arqam began looking for an association that would offer scholastic competition for its 19 high school students.
On Nov. 4, Katbi went before the TAPPS board to seek membership for his school. Board members asked him if the school taught from the Quran, and Katbi said it did.
"Their questions were reasonable," Katbi said. "I did not sense hostility."
A week later, Katbi got a letter from Burleson that included questions Burleson said the school needed to answer before it could be admitted to TAPPS.
"Do you teach your students to 'Make war on them (Christians and Jews) until idolatry is no more and Allah's religion reigns supreme' (Koran 8:37)?" Burleson asked.
Katbi said he was "astonished" by the letter. He did not reply to the questions.
The bylaws of TAPPS do not indicate that the organization is open only to Christian schools.
Hamdani, the ACLU representative, said the organization would come under special restrictions if it accepts federal funding. But the TAPPS Web site indicates that the nonprofit organization relies on dues from member schools and sporting-event fees.
"It's the venom in that letter that's so disturbing," Hamdani said. While the letter is structured as a series of questions, he said, "they're really more assumptions than questions."
Martin B. Cominsky, regional director of the Anti-Defamation League, said the letter "assumes some offensive stereotypes about what Islam is all about."
Ibrahim Hooper, spokesman for the Council on American-Islamic Relations in Washington, D.C., said he was not aware of any other cases in which Islamic schools had difficulty joining private-school organizations.
He said the letter reflects "the rise in anti-Muslim sentiment" that has emerged since the terrorist attacks of 2001.
Katbi said he was "astonished" by the letter. He did not reply to the questions.
Says it all.
So the guy asked them if one of their goals was to make war on Christians before he'd accept them.
A simple "no" might have sufficed.
Me thinks a dog is barking a bit too loudly...
Hamdani, the ACLU representative, said the organization would come under special restrictions if it accepts federal funding. But the TAPPS Web site indicates that the nonprofit organization relies on dues from member schools and sporting-event fees.
Genocide is also incompatible with the US Constitution.
There is no point asking them questions, for they will lie about their so-called religion.
Lying to protect or advance islam is justified to them, by "al Taqiyah."
So whatever they might disavow, from their book, it is likely a lie. For instance, they could deny they wish to kill Christians and Jews, and deny they wish to overtake our society with islam.
And it would be a lie.
"This snake Ibrahim Hooper needs to be restrained."
Not good enough. He needs to be stripped of citizenship (if he has it) and deported never being allowed to return the the US. CAIR is a front group for HAMAS.
****The Koran is incompatible with the US Constitution.****
The Koran is incompatible with human life.
I'm not advocating genocide.
I'm advocating self defense against a genocidal, fascist Nazi death cult.
I believe America has the right to defend itself if attacked. Both conservatives and progressives can agree on that.
But we cannot engage in mass murder and call it self defense.
By doing so, we lower ourselves to the level of Saddam Hussein and his ilk.
We're all human, Christian, Muslim, Jew and Hindu alike.
I believe (and my Muslim friends agree) that most Muslims are as horrified by the violence that is being perpetuated in the name of their religion as we are horrified to be the targets of that violence.
Islam isn't the problem, poverty mixed with religious extremism is the problem.
This is a joke, right? It was on The Onion and you just misattributed it, right?! Surely no one can be so idiotic as these people so offended by some questions about their "religion"... right?
The wealth of UTTER NONSENSE arising in this country is astounding.
rommy
Since Dec 23, 2004
Welcome to FR. Enjoy your (probably short) stay.
Katbi said he was "astonished" by the letter.
Is that a "Yes" or a "No"?
Read something similar on another thread today. I don't know how many more time I can say, "Screw those fascist scum!"
And never tolerate the intolerant. Just burned out on the issue. Suffice it to say that any religion that calls for the eradication of all others should itself be eradicated!
The entire West ( dare I say "the civilized World?" ) is locked in a fight to the death with militant Islam.
There will be no second-place winner, no "third way" solution-- it is March or Die time, folks.
It is Us versus an eighth-century "culture" of plunder & pillage, forced religious "conversions," and the mistreatment of women.
The sooner we face up to this fact realistically and quit dancing around PC talking-point nonsense about diversity and tolerance, the better off we'll all be.
We did not pick this fight- which really has roots in Jimmy Carter's appeasement in 1979 of militants- but we had damned well better see it for what it is, and be prepared to face it and finish it.
I'll put it in raw, personal terms-- I don't want Sharia law visited upon my women, and I don't want a goat-roper "culture" infesting my land.
I don't want their vile, nasty, loathsome weapons of mass destruction loosed upon my fair country, either.
They picked the fight, and now it is up to us to finish it- balls to the wall, hammer and anvil, fire and blood and iron... freedom is never, ever free, and the coin you pay it in is men's lives and tears and blood.
What we saw during Gulf War I was our military doctrine ( high tech ) versus Soviet doctrine ( throw a lot of low tech iron at the problem )-- and we all know how that turned out.
What we have just seen in the 3-Week War is Information-Tech,
( What some are calling it Hyperwarfare... )
or 21st Century warfare versus 20th Century...
What I would suggest, and call your attention to, is the fact that we, and Israel, are capable of waging 21st Century warfare, and the entire Arab world is not.
Proven fact, by recent events.
One more thing- this will be a war where we are all called to be warriors- so I suggest to you that the time has come to get hard, and stay hard... it really is the time for Fire and Blood and Iron...
Thank you.
Believe me, my intent in joining FR isn't to antagonize anyone or be a troll :)
I joined the site because I've come to believe that the American body politic has become cancerous with vicious partisanship. Progressives demonize conservatives as being jackbooted theocratic thugs and conservatives label progressives as being commie homo traitors.
Nobody wins and America becomes further divided. And a divided house cannot stand.
*smiles* In any case, so far I've had a very warm welcome!
Welcome to FRee Republic.
"The TAPPS letter, a symbol of religious intolerance, has no place in a nation that was originally built by those seeking asylum from such intolerance," Galloway said in correspondence he sent this week to the TAPPS board.
In contrast the ACLU is all about religious tolerance when it comes to Christianity. NOT!!!!
I believe you're correct.
We have to confront militant Islam in the world, if we don't, then those elements in the Islamic world which have become radicalized will loose untold destruction upon the rest of the world, including their own Islamic neighbors.
One of the real problems is that Islam never really grew out of the fifteenth century. As the rest of the world modernized and democratic institutions took hold, Islam remained dominated by theocracies and totalitarian institutions.
Much like the Russians, they have no experience with democracy and with freedom, so they are unwilling to embrace it.
You're welcome.
If you're truly interested in intelligent discussion and not trolling, you might not throw bombs like accusing the US of genocide and expect anyone to think anything of you other than a "commie homo traitor". (BTW, those guys are over at democraticunderground.com - if you want to see night and day, compare and contrast the two sites and the language/attitude therein.)
You might also come with a little consistency. You can say "I believe (and my Muslim friends agree)" on one thread, but it's best if you haven't said "I won't speak for [my progressive friends about the conduct of the Democratic party], I can only speak for myself." As a "nominal Catholic", I seriously doubt you can speak from a Muslim perspective. Neither can I.
So we must accept their documents and official decrees (not the words of the rank-and-file; as mentioned earlier, lying is not only acceptable, it is honored in Islam) as the official stance of Islam. Surely this does not necessarily reflect every Muslim's belief, just as a decree from the Catholic Church doesn't always sit well with every Catholic. (Which is probably the reason you are only nominally Catholic.) Yet, if the Church says it, it's official.
So what is the official stance of Islam? Kill Christians and Jews specifically, and everyone who won't bow their knee to Allah generally. I would urge you to check it out yourself; rather than listening to the soothing words that your Muslim friends might be feeding you, look to their own sources. Sorry I don't have any useful links; perhaps someone else on here can help. Or maybe Google knows... Google Knows All(TM).
So in any case, an honest welcome if you are interested in real discussion. A pre-zot welcome if you're just lobbing grenades into the camp under the guise of being "progressive" and open.
This would be my reply to their requests...
Look Mr. CAIR, Most Americans, including those who send their kids to private and parochial schools, are a little on edge right now about the Muslim religion - because all of the 19 terrorists who killed 3,000 of our fellow citizens proclaimed to do it in the furtherance of an Islamic World and the Muslim Faith.
We honestly hope that your organization is not teaching the ideas that have led to these types of acts committed on September 11th, 2001. So we are going to ask you a series of extremely blunt questions about the ideology behind the religion you teach. It is our belief that any American educational organization, regardless of their faith, must promote a religious philosophy which DOES NOT include telling their youth that it is okay, and in some cases their duty, to kill those with opposing views.
In some cases, the question will surround an obscure text within the Quran which expressly teaches to kill infidels. If you tell us that this is an obscure, outdated part of your Religion which plays no role in your Faith of today, then all members of our organizations will know that you are not teaching these verses.
Some of these questions may be seen by some in your organization as a slap in the face, because you are good people who teach a modern day religion which opposes the killing of any human being regardless of their motives. We apologize to those who teach this view, but it is better for us to ask the questions that our members have on their minds, than to simply let you into the organization with members being suspicious because they don't know exactly what you are teaching. Perhaps that's fear, but probably more to the point, it's protective parents who want to be assured.
It may not be fair for us to take the actions of a few and pin them on everyone of that faith, but that is a natural human responce. We may want to believe that these are the crazed acts of disturbed people - much like the skinhead movement of the 80's. All we're asking is that you tell us that you are not teaching anything that will cause these kids to do it again.
If the shoe was on the other foot we would expect you to ask us the very same questions. We may not like it, but we'll deal with it to respect the feelings that you would have against our faith if a Christian had done this in the name of our God.
Just answer the questions. Thank you.
so...WHAT'S THE ANSWER????
I don't advocate mass murder. I advocate an educational display to the savages who advocate subjugating humanity to their barbarian ideology that their so-called religion is not a philosophy or religion, but a fasciest ideology that is a declaration of war on humanity by an evil psychopath who invented and imaginary deity named Allah.
"Do you teach your students to 'Make war on them (Christians and Jews) until idolatry is no more and Allah's religion reigns supreme' (Koran 8:37)?" Burleson asked.
Katbi said he was "astonished" by the letter. He did not reply to the questions.
Sooner or later...
Oh Dear.
Point taken.
I wasn't accusing the US of genocide, I was responding to the statement, "Islam must be wiped out." Which sounds a bit like genocide to me. (Replace the word Islam with the word Judiasm and you see my point.)
However, as I said, point taken. Genocide is undoubtedly a word that will inspire heated responses, so I'll choose my words more carefully in the future :)
When I said that I can't speak for my progressive friends as to the conduct of the party, what I meant is that I don't feel like I can speak for such a large group and be intellectually honest. We haven't really spoken much about that particular topic, so I can't really say what they think.
However, I do have several Muslim friends of the family, and over the years since 9/11, we've spoken in great detail about the subject of Islamic violence. So, I feel like I can speak for them in that particular instance :)
But you are correct, as a nominal Catholic, I can hardly speak from a Muslim perspective.
I suppose (and this might be a bit naive) I still believe in the essential decency of most people. Every group has its zealots, but I think most people, regardless of religion, are essentially good people.
*laughs* And I agree with your assessment of democraticunderground.com.
I am an Ex-Muslim. So I know about Taqiyyah too. However, I am glad that USA citizens are recognizing the evil cult of Islam and its violent/lying followers.
Whar's wrong with the letter? Those are perfectly valid, and outstanding questions. Indeed I myself would like to know how many Islamaniac schools teach Koran 8:37.
I have read the Koran. And I will acknowledge that parts of it are rather troubling.
As I said, we absolutely have to confront militant Islam, and it appears as though we must confront it with military force.
That is indisputable.
Militant Islam will leave the world in flames if we do not stamp it out.
What we cannot do, as a moral society, is to stamp it out in a bloodbath. If we do, then we're no better then they are.
America is the greatest nation the world has ever known. We are great because we are just, we are just because we adhere to moral principles in our dealings with other nations.
We cannot abandon those moral principles out of fear.
How do we stamp out militant Islam without killing them all?
I don't know. I don't think anyone knows right now.
But persecuting Muslims in America isn't the answer.
At least IMHO :)
"Islam isn't the problem, poverty mixed with religious extremism is the problem."
Begging to strenuously disagree. Islam VERY MUCH IS THE PROBLEM.
You simply have not studied enough, about islam today in this world.
Judged by the overwhelmingly disproportionate participation of islam, in worldwide violence and terrorism, you are wrong.
Does Judaism advocate annihilating all non-Jews, subjugating them into slavery if possible, beheading them outright if not? If it did, you can bet that people here would be advocating the destruction of Judaism.
Besides, "Islam must be wiped out" says nothing of Muslims. Islam is a farce of a religion, a cancer that has plagued once-proud places like Iran, and destroyed millions upon millions of human lives. Wouldn't you like to do something about a religion that requires death to everyone that doesn't buy into it?
As for "the essential decency of most people", I'd agree with your assessment that it's a bit naive. ;-) As a Christian (and not nominally ;-) I believe that the Bible is the inspired word of God. I know what the Bible says about people, and I believe it's dead on. People are simply no good. Left to their own devices, people are beyond imperfect - they are utterly unable to please God (e.g., "be good"). Thankfully, God (not Allah, not Buddha) has reached down and provided a way for us to please Him, through Jesus. Other that that... we're screwed, if you'll pardon the expression.
Really, I think you would find it enlightening, as a seeker, to look at some of the expose material on Islam. It's not a religion of peace. It's not "just another religion" (like, say, Buddhism, in the sense that we don't have Buddhists flying planes into buildings and beheading people). It is a cult, bent on death and subverting the entire world to its rule. Check it out sometime.
Islam is the problem. It's a religion of peace and love for those who convert and of hatred for and destruction of those who don't. Islam is the problem.
Hello rommy, welcome to FR.
I am an Ex-Muslim. And to the best of my knowledge Islam and Democracy are not compatible. Simple.
some of the peaceful muslims do indeed get it...
Unfortunately, by admitting the truth in public, they most likely will now be destroyed... by the 'real' followers of mohammet and the koran... for not being Islamic enough.
"What we cannot do, as a moral society, is to stamp it out in a bloodbath."
How do you view the "morality" of the two nuclear bombs, which ended the Pacific theater of WWII?
Japan was fanatically hell bent on taking as many of US down, in the process of committing national Hari Kari.
Is islam different, or the same? Widespread approval among muslims of suicide bombers indicates to me THEY have a societal-religious problem which may require a big solution, imposed by others.
Truman correctly calculated the bombs to be an act of humanitarianism. A similar "big show" (or shows) might be the only thing these medieval and diabolical minds can grasp.
You refer to your muslim friends in America. I refer to my non-muslim friends from the arab/muslim regions.
They inform me that islam IS THE PROBLEM. Christians from Iran, Syria, Egypt. Jews, Bahai from Iran, and Zoroastrians from India. This input spans 25 years.
ditto.
a buddhist can become a christian or practice christianity without having his head chopped off.
the political ideology, POSING as a religion, in order to gain protected status under our constitution is what we need to wipe out.
nazis are still nazis, even if they create their own holy book and secret handshake...
and Islam is far far worse than nazism in its racist annihilation dogma and practices planet wide.
out of every 25 or so HOT SPOTS on this planet where people are being murdered, raped, enslaved, en masse... fully 23 can comfortabley assumed to be fully islamist conflicts.
Islam must be wiped out.
Any islamic, peaceful enough to get along with wester civilization, christians, jews and buddhists... is NOT ISLAMIC enough to escape the head choppers, when the planet is fully overrun by rampant islamism sometime in 2050...
Furthermore there is NO guarantee that a peaceful islamic today will not radicalize by drinking mad mo's poison fruit of the demonic koran an it's admitted 'satanic verses."
Islam IS the problem.
IT must be eradicated.
IF we help them create a pseudo islam that rejects and reforms it into being something other than a christian faith hating, jew killing, hindu murdering, buddhist slaughtering religion, NO ONE would recognise it as Islam.
BETTER to convert them to a real religion where folks actually are required to love or at least tolerate others and that otherwise requires them live in peaceful harmony as much as possible.
ISLAM cannot be reformed...
I'll be the first to admit that I don't have a good answer for that.
As to the morality of using nuclear weapons, I believe that it is likely that the use of nuclear weapons saved lives, both American and Japanese.
But that doesn't lessen the tragedy of their use or the horrors faced by those who survived the blasts.
But, one has to remember that the firebombing of Dresden and Tokyo were more destructive in terms of lives lost and probably more horrific in the manner of death for those who lived in those cities.
So, given the choice between invading Japan and firebombing its remaining cities or ending the war in a swift stroke, I have to lean towards the second choice as the moral one.
But I'm not sure that a parallel can be drawn between Imperial Japan and modern day Islam.
Certainly, both were taken over by extremists and both needed to be confronted.
But the tacit support of suicide bombers by those in the Muslim world does not equte to a the active support of the population of a nation at war with the rest of the world.
At least, I don't think it does.
You're correct in saying that they have a societal-religious problem that is in dire need of a solution.
But do we respond to killing with more killing? When does the killing stop? How many have to die?
Sometimes war is the only option left. Sometimes people have to die in order that others might live.
If that's the case, we need to be damn sure that we're doing it for the right reasons.
Someday history will take us to task, and what will the history books say about us?
Will they say that we invaded Iraq in order to build a lasting democracy there? Will they say that our actions contributed to eventual peace?
Will they say that our actions were noble, that we rooted out the cancer of militant Islam? Or will they say that we were an imperialistic power, engaged in a resource grab?
*smiles* In any case, I'm digressing.
So again, to answer your question, I don't know.
What I do know is that as a society, we stand at a crossroads. Nationwide polls indicate that Americans are increasingly hostile towards Muslims. If the trend continues, we will soon be a nation that for the first time in its history condones restricting the civil rights of one particular group, for their religious beliefs alone.
From there, it's only a hop, skip and a jump to being a nation that practices institutional discrimination directed at a religious group.
As a free nation, we cannot allow that. We can't let fear cause us to turn against members of our own society. If we do, then the terrorists win. (I know, it's a tired liberal cliche, but it rings true for me nonetheless.)
If we can take civil rights away from Muslims, then what's to stop us from taking civil rights away from other religious groups we find distasteful?
Nothing at all.
newbie apologist alert
I have little patience for your mealy mouth horseshit. It makes you feel good but not me. I don't have too much regard for the Islamic culture after the suicide bomb attack killing 23 Americans. Plus the same scum are pulling Iraqis who work with us, out of cars and executing them in broad daylight.
Muhammad was a terrorist. This is what you are blind too. He was a psycho killer same as the Muslims who engineered this suicide bombing in Mosul. The Koran orders all Muslims to copy the life of Muhammad. The nice Muslims you have met are fact "bad Muslims", unfaithful Muslims, who are ignoring the evil parts of Muhammad's life and the evil parts of the Koran. Good for them I say.
Meanwhile we are left with a huge proportion of Muslims who who take the entire Koran to heart. Muhammad advocated terror, the exact verses are all over the Koran including beheadings to terrorize their enemies. Today's Muslims terrorists are merely emulating the life of Muhammad. As the Koran commands them to.
Where are you from? My wife and I live in North Carolina.
Oh, really? How many of your Muslim friends have done anything about World Wide mass murder? How many Muslims did ANYTHING to help clean up the WTC? Christians and Jews cried, and helped with stricken Americans. The Muslims stood by laughing. Yes, I will stereotype, Muslims embrace the religion of EVIL! Rape rooms, beheadings, torture, mass murders... You name a death watch, call you Muslim friends and neighbors. These sick bastards are awaking a sleeping giant, just as the Japs did in WWII. The difference is that Americans on the home front will kill these sick bastards that are the Devil's handiwork. IMOHO.
I'm from Seattle :) And yes, I voted for Gregoire. Although in retrospect, I wish I had voted for Dino Rossi. I liked what he had to say, I just couldn't bring myself to cross party lines and vote for him. Shame on me.
Sorry, I'm ranting again.
BTW, Merry Christmas.
Oh Lordy... Gettin' to old to be an American I guess.
Me too. I've ranted for 10 minutes here.
"Muhammad advocated terror"
Muhammad is a Psycho...
Do you know Muhammad advocated his wives and women in general to breastfeed adults? Muhammad is a sick psycho!!!
This Muhammad aka the pedophile has some serious problems....
I will be glad to provie a reference or two if any Muslim denies this...
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