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No peace on Earth during unjust war (GREELEY ALERT)
Chicago Sun-Times ^ | December 24, 2004 | ANDREW GREELEY

Posted on 12/24/2004 7:00:22 AM PST by Chi-townChief

One reads in the papers that the Pentagon expects the war in Iraq to continue till 2010. Donald Rumsfeld will not guarantee that it will be over by 2009. How many dead and maimed Americans by then? How many sad obituaries? How many full pages in the papers with pictures of all the casualties?

Why?

The reasons change: weapons of mass destruction, war on terror, freedom and democracy for the people of Iraq, American credibility. All are deceptions. This cockamamie and criminally immoral war was planned before the Sept. 11 attack in which Iraq was not involved. It has nothing to do with the war on terror. American-style freedom and democracy in Arab countries are hallucinations by men and women like Paul Wolfowitz and Condi Rice whose contribution to the war is writing long memos -- Republican intellectuals with pointy heads.

One must support the troops, I am told. I certainly support the troops the best way possible: Bring them home, get them out of a war for which the planning was inadequate, the training nonexistent, the goal obscure, and the equipment and especially the armor for their vehicles inferior. They are brave men and women who believe they are fighting to defend their country and have become sitting ducks for fanatics. Those who die are the victims of the big lie. They believe that they are fighting to prevent another terror attack on the United States. They are not the war criminals. The ''Vulcans,'' as the Bush foreign policy team calls itself, are the criminals, and they ought to face indictment as war criminals.

There is an irony in the promise of a prolonged war. The Vulcans believed that, as the world's only superpower, the military might of the United States was overwhelming, irresistible, beyond challenge. In fact, the war into which they tricked us has become a quagmire, 130,000 American troops are at the mercy of perhaps 5,000 true-believer guerrillas and an Iraqi population that doesn't like Americans any more than it liked Saddam Hussein. It is a war in which there is no possibility of victory -- whether it ends in June 2005 or June 2010, whether there are 2,000 American battle deaths or 50,000, whether there are 10,000 wounded Americans or 500,000, whether those with post-traumatic stress are 10 percent of the returning troops or 30 percent.

One of the criteria for a just war is that there be a reasonable chance of victory. Where is that reasonable chance? Each extra day of the war makes it more unjust, more criminal. The guilty people are not only the Vulcans but those Americans who in the November election endorsed the war.

They are also responsible for the Iraqi deaths, especially the men who join the police or the army because they need the money to support their families -- their jobs eaten up in the maw of the American ''liberation.'' Iraqi deaths don't trouble many Americans. Their attitude is not unlike the e-mail writer who said he rejoices every time a Muslim kills another Muslim. ''Let Allah sort them out.''

This time of the year we celebrate ''peace on Earth to men of good will.'' Americans must face the fact that they can no longer claim to be men and women of good will, not as long as they support an unnecessary, foolish, ill-conceived, badly executed and, finally, unwinnable war. If most people in other countries blame the war on Americans, we earned that blame in the November election -- not that there is any serious reason to believe that Sen. John Kerry would have had the courage to end the war. Perhaps if he had changed his mind, as he did about the war in Vietnam, and opposed the Iraqi war, he might have won. Too late now. Too late till 2010 -- or 2020.

Note: Some conservative Catholics -- Republicans, I assume -- are spreading the word on the Internet that I am an ''unfrocked'' (sic) priest. That is false witness. I am and have been for 50 years a priest in good standing of the Archdiocese of Chicago. Call (312) 751-8220 if you don't believe me. False witness is a grave sin and must be confessed before Christmas communion. Moreover, those who commit it are bound to restore the reputation of the one about whom they've lied.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial; Foreign Affairs; Government; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections; US: Illinois; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: andrewgreeley; enemywithin; greeley; sickjoke; theenemywithin
This one is kind of ironic since Iman Greeley has made a career of bearing false witness against his fellow Catholic, conservative Jews ("neocons" as he calls them), Chicago's archbishop Cardinal George, President Bush and administration members, Pope John Paul II, and anyone else who disagrees with his warped anti-American socialistic worldview.
1 posted on 12/24/2004 7:00:22 AM PST by Chi-townChief
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To: Chi-townChief

This (in)famous published author has gone moonbat.


2 posted on 12/24/2004 7:04:33 AM PST by dennisw (Help put the "Ch" back in Chanukah)
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To: Chi-townChief

Is Andrew Greeley a Catholic Priest or Muslim Mullah? This article is similar to the talking points uttered in the Mideast media.


3 posted on 12/24/2004 7:04:34 AM PST by Kuksool
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To: Kuksool

He's more like a mullah if that last paragraph is any indication.


4 posted on 12/24/2004 7:07:06 AM PST by Chi-townChief
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To: Chi-townChief
Note: Some conservative Catholics -- Republicans, I assume -- are spreading the word on the Internet that I am an ''unfrocked'' (sic) priest. That is false witness. I am and have been for 50 years a priest in good standing of the Archdiocese of Chicago. Call (312) 751-8220 if you don't believe me. False witness is a grave sin and must be confessed before Christmas communion. Moreover, those who commit it are bound to restore the reputation of the one about whom they've lied.

Father, what penance would you impose for saying "dreary old windbag"?

5 posted on 12/24/2004 7:16:44 AM PST by dighton
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To: Chi-townChief
So why isn't this pig de-frocked?
I'm always so amused when someone like this is so concerned about the waste of life when someone in the Military sacrifices for our freedom. If they want to campaign for waste of life why don't they get on the illegal drug bandwagon. If Greeley and his ilk, including the media, mounted an anti-drug campaign with the vigor that they campaign against selective Military actions, drug deaths would have diminished been long ago. That's a waste of life.
6 posted on 12/24/2004 7:18:37 AM PST by pieces of time
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To: Chi-townChief

"Moreover, those who commit it are bound to restore the reputation of the one about whom they've lied."


You first Greeley.
Although I don't think you have enough time to finish before Christmas communion...you hypocrite.


7 posted on 12/24/2004 7:20:37 AM PST by macamadamia
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To: Kuksool

I think he should be more concerned about the cleaning up of the house that he lives in before concerning himself with the house alongside his.


8 posted on 12/24/2004 7:24:43 AM PST by chiefqc
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To: Chi-townChief

He needs to spend 40 days and 40 nights in the desert.


9 posted on 12/24/2004 7:38:36 AM PST by Don Corleone (Leave the gun..take the cannoli)
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To: Chi-townChief

"False witness is a grave sin and must be confessed before Christmas communion."
So is encouraging Catholics to vote for abortionist.
Father do you really believe that God will judge you only on the things YOU want HIM to consider? Do you think God is a liberal democrat?


10 posted on 12/24/2004 7:41:51 AM PST by jmaroneps37 ( Frist/ Blackwell in 2008 for a landslide: you saw it here first.)
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To: Chi-townChief
Hey! This man is correct. We would be a stronger nation if we all hid under rocks and put our fingers in our ears while screaming "LALALALALALALALA" as the chips around the globe fall.

No nation is a threat. Nuclear weaponry is merely a bugbear and WMDs don't actually exist. We can indefinitely continue our existence as the most successful nation on the planet by immediately disarming, throwing our CCW permits in the garbage and give each other loving embraces of goodwill and fuzziness. Weak nations all endure the ages because everyone will marvel of our meekness and just leave us alone while our national treasury grows and our prosperity goes on without end.

Bah.

This article is the ramblings of an intellectual child who finds incredible depth in the phrase "Why can't we all get along?" "We wouldn't have wars if people would stop shooting at each other" is a statement fit for the finest sage of the ages.

Greely is just another bubblemonkey with a dry bubble wand. All breath (in a huff and puff sort of way) and no product.

This man sees ink? What wretched editor is this cretin's enabler?

APf
11 posted on 12/24/2004 7:44:38 AM PST by APFel (Humanity has a poor track record of predicting its own future.)
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To: Chi-townChief

I guess the victims of Saddam Hussein are worthless subhumans in Fr. Greeley's eyes.


12 posted on 12/24/2004 7:45:45 AM PST by Unam Sanctam
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To: Chi-townChief

NOTE TO MEDIA: THEY’RE NOT INSURGENTS – THEY’RE TERRORIST COCKROACHES!


13 posted on 12/24/2004 7:49:50 AM PST by BenLurkin (Big government is still a big problem.)
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To: Chi-townChief

Greeley is extra-grouchy this year.


14 posted on 12/24/2004 7:54:45 AM PST by sinkspur ("How dare you presume to tell God what He cannot do" God Himself)
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To: Chi-townChief

Andrew Greely=Jane Fonda in a Cassock


15 posted on 12/24/2004 8:00:59 AM PST by Don Corleone (Leave the gun..take the cannoli)
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To: Chi-townChief

Again with the SAME LINE...Don't bother reading the article...it's a rehash of old propaganda...


16 posted on 12/24/2004 8:08:50 AM PST by Edgerunner (Don't pay attention to me, ..I haven't been here long enough to have any credibility...)
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To: Chi-townChief
I certainly support the troops the best way possible: Bring them home, ...

Our troops will not appreciate having to fight radical Islam within our own borders with far more restrictive ROEs. Not to mention that fighting them here will be completely useless since they will continue to train, outfit and deploy outside our borders.

17 posted on 12/24/2004 8:18:14 AM PST by TigersEye (Frag an embed for me.)
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To: Chi-townChief
The reasons change: weapons of mass destruction, war on terror, freedom and democracy for the people of Iraq, American credibility.

I got your false witness hanging right there, Padre.

18 posted on 12/24/2004 8:22:55 AM PST by TigersEye (Intellectuals only exist if you think they do!)
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To: Chi-townChief
They are also responsible for the Iraqi deaths, especially the men who join the police or the army because they need the money to support their families --

I guess it never occurred to this guy that those Iraqis might just want help Americans to purge the terrorists from their country? Nah, just like our soldiers, Greeley is sure they joined for the paycheck. He has no concept of the words "duty" or "honor".

19 posted on 12/24/2004 8:24:13 AM PST by L98Fiero
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To: Chi-townChief
This time of the year we celebrate ''peace on Earth to men of good will.'' Americans must face the fact that they can no longer claim to be men and women of good will, not as long as they support an unnecessary, foolish, ill-conceived, badly executed and, finally, unwinnable war.

I don't often agree with Fr. Greeley, but here, he got it right. At least three of his five adjectives modifying "war" are spot on.

20 posted on 12/24/2004 8:28:26 AM PST by St.Chuck (Induimini Dominum Iesum Christum)
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To: Chi-townChief
American-style freedom and democracy in Arab countries are hallucinations by men and women like Paul Wolfowitz and Condi Rice whose contribution to the war is writing long memos -- Republican intellectuals with pointy heads.

Is that how you feel, Father Greeley? That Arabs are an inferior breed that can't grasp our high liberal ideals? How very enlightened.

Maybe you were happier letting the Iraqi people starve under the cruel sanctions and tyrannical oppression, Father. Maybe you slept better at night letting children in poverty wither and die under our 'peaceful containment' policy. Maybe you'd be happier to let those people perish rather than let them be saved by the force of arms, because that runs counter to your personal beliefs.

Maybe you're just a sadistic, socialist dilletante. I don't really care which it is. You're opinion is noted, and you can work out the merits of said opinion with the Almighty.

21 posted on 12/24/2004 8:37:46 AM PST by Steel Wolf (Smokey, this is not 'Nam. This is bowling. There are rules. Mark it zero, Dude.)
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To: Chi-townChief
Father Greeley does make one essential point. If freedom is a fantasy in the middle east, believed in only by Wolfowitz, then what we are doing now is futile. Is it patronizing to the inhabitants of the middle east to believe that they will forever be ruled by petty tyrants or can we turn it around? Should we try?
BTW, I would hate to go to confession with Greeley. He is so judgmental.
22 posted on 12/24/2004 8:50:42 AM PST by Shisan (.)
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To: dighton

perhaps not defroked but definitly a disgrace.

80 people dead, mass graves, a dictator who unquestioningly was preparing to build an a-bomb to kill americans, and giving comfort to all the enemies of the USA is no just to this crackpot.

Just put him next to moore in the looney left club.


23 posted on 12/24/2004 8:54:52 AM PST by longtermmemmory (VOTE!)
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False witness is a grave sin

As is violating the Sixth Commandment, Andy. Wonder if you've ever confessed that sin.

24 posted on 12/24/2004 9:38:13 AM PST by A.A. Cunningham
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To: St.Chuck

"All that is needed for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing." -Edmund Burke


25 posted on 12/24/2004 9:43:16 AM PST by Chi-townChief
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To: Chi-townChief

Is there peace on earth during a just war?


26 posted on 12/24/2004 9:44:19 AM PST by woofie
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To: Chi-townChief

Where was Greeley when Saddamn was slaughtering his fellow human beings by the hundreds of thousands?


27 posted on 12/24/2004 9:45:43 AM PST by mewzilla
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To: Chi-townChief
"All that is needed for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing." -Edmund Burke

"All that is needed for evil to triumph is for good men to simplify complex issues and events to a platitude; mere action is no substitute for prudence and moral virtue." -St. Chuck

28 posted on 12/24/2004 10:53:20 AM PST by St.Chuck (Induimini Dominum Iesum Christum)
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To: Chi-townChief
"In fact, the war into which they tricked us has become a quagmire, 130,000 American troops are at the mercy of perhaps 5,000 true-believer guerrillas and an Iraqi population that doesn't like Americans any more than it liked Saddam Hussein. It is a war in which there is no possibility of victory -- whether it ends in June 2005 or June 2010, whether there are 2,000 American battle deaths or 50,000, whether there are 10,000 wounded Americans or 500,000, whether those with post-traumatic stress are 10 percent of the returning troops or 30 percent."

Greeley just doesn't get it. Were these 130,000 soldiers not in Iraq . . . we would be fighting the "5,000 true-believer guerrillas" on American streets.

I don't particularly care if this war ends in 2005 or 2010 or 2999 . . . OR if there are 2,000 or 50,000 American battle deaths . . . OR if there are 10,000 or 500,000 wounded Americans . . . it takes no General Patton-like military background to see it's best to fight in your enemy's sandbox rather than your own. American and Israeli buses would be blowing up. Blood would be flowing in American gutters . . . every day, every hour, and every minute of every day.

Our enemies have made the choice for us . . . kill or be killed, there is no middle ground with Islamic terrorists.

THAT is why I staunchly support this war -- the decision to fight the war was made by our enemies, they declared the war and fired the first shots . . . we only had a choice as to where the war would be fought. History will prove us conservatives right . . . President Bush will be remembered as a great President and as Churchill said . . . "This will be our finest hour."

29 posted on 12/24/2004 11:33:04 AM PST by geedee (History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid.)
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To: Chi-townChief

Well said. I can't think anything to add to that except how vile of him to air this rant, as the Catholic priest poser that he is, on Christmas Eve. And I wonder if he is as concerned about the good people of Sudan who have suffered for more than a decade under the slaughter, oppression, tyranny, and outright genocide by the militant rebels fueled by the Islamo-fascists. A war directed specifically at the peaceful predominantly Christian South Sudanese. Hmmmm. Oh, wait, nothing from him for 10 years on that? No, Mr. Greeley is only concerned with leftist, commie concerns.


30 posted on 12/24/2004 11:46:01 AM PST by fortunecookie (My grandparents didn't flee communism so that I could live in Kerry's Kommune - and I won't have to.)
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To: Chi-townChief
Sheesh! This piece of junk article makes me angry.
31 posted on 12/24/2004 10:53:49 PM PST by ladyinred (Congratulations President Bush! Four more years!)
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To: ladyinred

Not tonight, lady; Merry Christmas!


32 posted on 12/24/2004 10:56:40 PM PST by Howlin (Annoy a liberal; tell everybody you see Merry Christmas!)
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To: dennisw
James Webb was secretary of the Navy during the Reagan administration, and a Marine platoon and company commander in Vietnam. He also is an author and filmmaker. Posted 2/18/2004 8:03 PM USA TODAY

Bush arguably has committed the greatest strategic blunder in modern memory. To put it bluntly, he attacked the wrong target. While he boasts of removing Saddam Hussein from power, he did far more than that. He decapitated the government of a country that was not directly threatening the United States and, in so doing, bogged down a huge percentage of our military in a region that never has known peace. Our military is being forced to trade away its maneuverability in the wider war against terrorism while being placed on the defensive in a single country that never will fully accept its presence.
There is no historical precedent for taking such action when our country was not being directly threatened. The reckless course that Bush and his advisers have set will affect the economic and military energy of our nation for decades. It is only the tactical competence of our military that, to this point, has protected him from the harsh judgment that he deserves.
At the same time, those around Bush, many of whom came of age during Vietnam and almost none of whom served, have attempted to assassinate the character and insult the patriotism of anyone who disagrees with them. Some have impugned the culture, history and integrity of entire nations, particularly in Europe, that have been our country's great friends for generations and, in some cases, for centuries.
Bush has yet to fire a single person responsible for this strategy. Nor has he reined in those who have made irresponsible comments while claiming to represent his administration. One only can conclude that he agrees with both their methods and their message.
33 posted on 12/25/2004 3:05:29 AM PST by piniella
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To: Chi-townChief
One must support the troops, I am told. I certainly support the troops the best way possible: Bring them home, get them out of a war...

You contradict yourself.

Note: Some conservative Catholics -- Republicans, I assume -- are spreading the word on the Internet that I am an ''unfrocked'' (sic) priest. That is false witness. I am and have been for 50 years a priest in good standing of the Archdiocese of Chicago. Call (312) 751-8220 if you don't believe me.

We can't help we have a coward for a cardinal.

34 posted on 12/25/2004 4:09:44 AM PST by BlessedBeGod (George W. Bush -- The Terror of the Terrorists)
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To: Chi-townChief

BTW, I Googled "Andrew Greeley" and unfrocked and only found one article -- one in which it did not say he was unfrocked.


35 posted on 12/25/2004 4:10:56 AM PST by BlessedBeGod (George W. Bush -- The Terror of the Terrorists)
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To: piniella; dennisw

So Mr. Webb is really not one of the smarter guys you'd want to meet, is he?

Merry Christmas !!!


36 posted on 12/25/2004 5:24:46 AM PST by Chi-townChief
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To: Chi-townChief

Hmm, Father Greeley neglected to mention his obvious belief that Arabs and Iraqis in particular are incapable of running a democracy. Surely this is racist thinking. Surely hundreds of thousands of Iraqis were worth saving from that madman Hussein. Surely they're worth a candle. (Evidently not.)


37 posted on 12/25/2004 5:33:36 AM PST by hershey
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To: Chi-townChief

He should be drug through the streets till skinned.


38 posted on 12/25/2004 5:36:37 AM PST by bert (Don't Panic.....)
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To: Chi-townChief
So who did James Webb vote for? The vegetarian or libertarian candidate? The ChiComs are on Iran like white on rice. Nature abhors a vacuum and where we fear to tread the ChiComs will rush in. As long as we want Mid East oil we will be engaged there.
39 posted on 12/25/2004 6:24:46 AM PST by dennisw (Help put the "Ch" back in Chanukah)
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To: piniella

post #39


40 posted on 12/25/2004 6:25:48 AM PST by dennisw (Help put the "Ch" back in Chanukah)
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To: St.Chuck
At least three of his five adjectives modifying "war" are spot on.
Yeah, you're so right - freedom is only for Americans.
41 posted on 12/25/2004 6:28:31 AM PST by oh8eleven
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To: BlessedBeGod

And, interestingly, that's linked to a liberal Catholic website with a long tedious (you guessed it) "Bush is Hitler" comparison.


42 posted on 12/25/2004 9:36:23 AM PST by Chi-townChief
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To: Chi-townChief
You would think that Greely, writing about a 'just war' would at least mention St. Thomas Aquinas. Then again, methinks Greely has been hitting the pipe too hard.

5.56mm

43 posted on 12/25/2004 9:41:46 AM PST by M Kehoe
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To: piniella
There is no historical precedent for taking such action when our country was not being directly threatened.

Actually, there is. Klintoon, while gutting our military, also ordered more military actions than any other president since WWII, and for less reason. Was Haiti a threat to us? Kosovo? Bosnia? A Sudanese aspirin factory? Yet the same liberals who are screaming that the action in Iraq is unjustified were, back then, very self-satisified about it all. In fact, I read a quote from the time, saying that nothing is more noble than using the military in such a way that the United States does not benefit from its use at all.

It's a good thing for liberals that we're all such stupid idiots. Otherwise, we might be able to figure out that their arguments are designed for the situation at hand and have no long-term consistency. If we were to figure that out, we wouldn't be convinced by their superior intellect!

44 posted on 12/25/2004 10:10:29 AM PST by exDemMom (Truth, justice, and the American way!)
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To: pieces of time
So why isn't this pig de-frocked?

On what grounds?

45 posted on 12/25/2004 10:14:57 AM PST by Non-Sequitur (Jefferson Davis - the first 'selected, not elected' president.)
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To: exDemMom

If you go back to both World Wars, we were never directly threatened by the Germans (at least less than we were by Saddam) or by the North Koreans in 1950. These clowns all depend on us having very short memories.


46 posted on 12/25/2004 12:04:51 PM PST by Chi-townChief
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To: dennisw

Fr. Greeley has a very vivid imagination for a Catholic priest who is and has been presumably "chaste". He has become something of a specialist at producing steamy potboiler sex novels in the old tradition of Harold Robbins and Jackie Susann. These novels have about as much relevance and importance to Literature as this Sun-Times piece does to political analysis.


47 posted on 12/25/2004 12:15:37 PM PST by willyboyishere
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