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Atheist's turn toward God was a 4-year process, friend says
http://www.bpnews.net/bpnews.asp?ID=19780 ^ | Dec 22, 2004 | David Roach

Posted on 12/26/2004 2:12:39 PM PST by protest1

Atheist's turn toward God was a 4-year process, friend says Dec 22, 2004 By David Roach

NASHVILLE, Tenn. (BP)--Christian apologist Gary Habermas had just finished debating noted British atheist Antony Flew about the existence of God and the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

The two friends rode an elevator together as they left the Californian university where the debate was held in January 2002. As Habermas exited the elevator, he extended his hand through the open door. "Tony," he said, "this is it for now. I enjoyed talking with you. When you become a Christian, I want to be the first one to know."

Flew laughed and responded, "I think you deserve that right."

The doors closed.

Most observers of the debate never thought that Flew would take steps toward Christianity. The former professor at Oxford, Aberdeen, Keele and Reading universities in Britain had argued against the existence of God for more than 50 years, publishing such books as "Atheistic Humanism" and "Darwinian Evolution."

But in December 2004 the unexpected happened when Flew took a step toward Christianity, announcing that scientific evidence led him to a belief in God.

Habermas was among the first people he told.

Habermas, chairman of the department of philosophy and theology at Liberty University in Lynchburg, Va., had known that Flew was reconsidering his position since the fall of 2000 when Flew sent Habermas a letter in which the atheist acknowledged the strength of arguments for theism and Christianity.

"In September 2000, that's about the earliest indication that I had that he was changing," Habermas said in an interview with Baptist Press. "He wrote me a long letter, quite an incredible letter, where at several points he conceded the evidence for [theism and Christianity]."

When Habermas received the letter, he knew something was happening in Flew's life.

"I distinctly remember reading that letter when it came in the mail and thinking, 'Wow, something huge is happening with this guy,'" Habermas said.

Over a period of three years the two scholars corresponded about God. By January 2003 Flew began considering arguments from the "intelligent design" movement and was on the verge of belief in God.

Intelligent design is a theory arguing that some features of the natural world are best explained as the products of an intelligent cause rather than naturalistic evolution.

"He told me he was really rethinking theism and had corresponded with [naturalistic scientist Richard] Dawkins and was putting the ID arguments up against what Dawkins was saying and trying to compare the arguments," Habermas said. "And he was going back and forth as to whether he should be a theist or not."

By early 2004, Flew completed his transition to theism and indicated his change of mind to Habermas in a telephone conversation.

When media reports revealed Flew's belief in God in December 2004, some skeptics argued that the former atheist had changed his mind suddenly. But Habermas said such allegations are clearly incorrect in light of the four-year dialogue he had with Flew.

"The implications that he's just recently arrived at theism ... and that he hasn't had time to think through this aren't correct," Habermas said. "The first sign that I've seen of him changing goes back to the fall of 2000. So he's been thinking about these things for four years."

Flew currently holds a position known as deism -- the belief that God created the universe but is not actively involved in people's lives today, Habermas said. Because deism is traditionally a "tenuous" position, Flew could move closer to traditional Christianity in the days ahead, he said.

"Deism is a very tenuous position, and deistic belief is a short-lived movement in the history of philosophy over the last few centuries," Habermas said. "One reason deism is a troubled position is that it usually moves one way or the other."

Flew could revert back to atheism, Habermas noted. "Still, he has made a number of statements to me indicating that he is open, even to revelation," Habermas said.

"Three weeks ago I received a letter from him where he said that he was rereading my arguments for the resurrection and was very impressed with them,'" he said.

Despite his interest in the resurrection, however, Flew remains far from belief in Christianity, Habermas said.

"He's told me on many occasions that he was impressed with the arguments for the resurrection ... and he says it's the best miracle claim in the history of religions," Habermas recounted. "So he's impressed with them. Enough to believe? I don't think so, certainly not right now."

The dialogue with Flew highlights the need for Christians to engage non-believers in meaningful, caring friendships, Habermas said. Christian scholars in particular should bear in mind the need to build relationships with non-believing scholars, he said.

There are "benefits of carrying on a genuine friendship with people who do not agree with you on things," Habermas said. "I mean a genuine friendship where you're there for them in season and out of season. You're there for them when they're having bad days. You can tell them things that are on your mind. ... It's not connected to whether the people convert or not."

Christians should rejoice that Flew has adopted a belief in God but remember that mere belief in God falls short of the belief in Jesus Christ that Scripture requires for eternal life, Habermas said.

"His deism provides no relief for dying because he doesn't believe in life after death," he said. "It's not ... an 81-year-old who is embracing God so that he can come out on the good side when he dies. If you said that to him, he would say, 'I'm just going where the evidence leads.'"

An interview conducted by Habermas exploring Flew's conversion to belief in God will be published in the winter 2004 issue of Philosophia Christi, the journal of the Evangelical Philosophical Society.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Extended News; Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events; Philosophy
KEYWORDS: antonyflew; atheist; christianity; darwinism; god; intelligentdesign; theism
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To: LibertarianInExile

Anthony Flew has been led to theism by science. That is the the significance of one mans life long advocacy for atheism morphing into theism. He "followed the science" where it led him.


21 posted on 12/26/2004 4:31:18 PM PST by jwalsh07
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To: anniegetyourgun

Sure would be a good Christmas present, eh?


22 posted on 12/26/2004 4:34:48 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going....)
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To: bannedfromdu

Yeah...


Ain't it GREAT?!?!


23 posted on 12/26/2004 4:38:16 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going....)
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To: bannedfromdu
"The fool has said in his heart there is no God." - God

The Hebrew word for fool in this scripture from the OT implies a form of insanity. Ergo, those who agree with God are more sane.

24 posted on 12/26/2004 4:58:50 PM PST by anniegetyourgun
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To: Elsie

The best.


25 posted on 12/26/2004 4:59:08 PM PST by anniegetyourgun
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To: protest1
I grew up as a Jehovah's Witness. The Devil himself couldn't have designed a religion with more power to turn a person away from God. It's been a long crawl back from atheism for me. God bless anyone who can do it. It isn't easy.
26 posted on 12/26/2004 5:02:11 PM PST by Hardastarboard
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To: VadeRetro

I know that "appeal to authority" is used as an excuse not to listen to expert testimony at times- and at times rightly so. Still, is this not evidence that there must be SOMETHING to the intelligent design arguments? Flew is perhaps the world's best known debating athiest. I've a book of his debate with Warren on my shelf. He gave Dawkins a chance to rip the ID arguments and Dawk could not close the deal.


27 posted on 12/26/2004 5:05:15 PM PST by Ahban
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To: Ahban
I know that "appeal to authority" is used as an excuse not to listen to expert testimony at times- and at times rightly so.

Spetner is not a biologist or geneticist. Biologists and geneticists find his models laughably inappropriate, his casual attitude to what is known of the relationships between genes appalling.

Still, is this not evidence that there must be SOMETHING to the intelligent design arguments?

No. Come back when you have something that survives serious scrutiny.

Flew is perhaps the world's best known debating athiest.

And he still accepts evolution. Now he's not an atheist. Neither is Junior. Neither am I, exactly, although you guys are pushing me closer every day.

28 posted on 12/26/2004 5:11:08 PM PST by VadeRetro
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To: Ahban
Don't bother to ask me who Spetner is. You caught be going hot and heavy on another thread (appeal to authority was part of it) and I thought you were chiming in THERE.

Now I have to look and see what appeal to authority you were even talking about.

29 posted on 12/26/2004 5:12:50 PM PST by VadeRetro
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To: Ahban
OK, got it.

Flew currently holds a position known as deism -- the belief that God created the universe but is not actively involved in people's lives today, Habermas said. Because deism is traditionally a "tenuous" position, Flew could move closer to traditional Christianity in the days ahead, he said.
As an official agnostic, I say nobody's an authority in this area. You can appeal to Flew all you want.
30 posted on 12/26/2004 5:15:02 PM PST by VadeRetro
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To: jwalsh07; LibertarianInExile
Anthony Flew has been led to theism by science.

Flew was not a scientist. He may have had some fanciful interpretion of science -- misinterpretation, more likely. But the scientific method per se eschews faith as a valid means of cognition, i.e. recognising reality. I find it interesting (and revealing) that Flew AFAIK has not addressed the issue of faith in his new world-view.

Intelligeant Design proponents puzzle me. Thousands of species have gone extinct over the millennia. Entire galaxies have collided destructively. There are continually earthquakes and other natural calamities. The planet Earth evidently was designed not too intelligently. Not to mention homo sapiens with all his defects and vestigial organs.

31 posted on 12/26/2004 5:39:28 PM PST by Nicholas Conradin (If you are not disquieted by "One nation under God," try "One nation under Allah.")
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To: protest1

Interesting read...I had Gary Habermas as a professor for a few classes in college (at Liberty). He was always interesting; I learned a lot in those classes.


32 posted on 12/26/2004 5:45:00 PM PST by xjcsa (Everything matters if anything matters at all...)
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To: Nicholas Conradin
Flew was not a scientist.

Never said he was. He's a philosopher with a keen interest in science, specifically the origin of life.

You certainly don't mean to say that only scientists can be led somewhere through science, do you?

I believe in creation but if you were able to create matter, time and space ex nihilo in the lab, I'd have to seriously reconsider my beliefs.

33 posted on 12/26/2004 5:46:32 PM PST by jwalsh07
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To: protest1
"I mean a genuine friendship where you're there for them in season and out of season. You're there for them when they're having bad days. You can tell them things that are on your mind. ... It's not connected to whether the people convert or not."

That's what Jesus did, and that is Jesus in us doing the same.

Praying for Flew to embrace the Resurrection, and "fly" into the arms of Jesus.

34 posted on 12/26/2004 6:01:45 PM PST by mombonn ( íViva Bush/Cheney! Dukakis and Kerry are the matching bookends of the Bush era.)
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To: VadeRetro
....although you guys are pushing me closer every day.

Tie a knot and hang on!

Surely this motley bunch of christians that don't agree with you and the world view of Evolution, cannot shake your faith.....

35 posted on 12/26/2004 6:10:53 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going....)
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To: VadeRetro
As an official agnostic, I say nobody's an authority in this area.

There is some kind of perverse logic at work here.

36 posted on 12/26/2004 6:12:15 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going....)
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To: jwalsh07

Ah, so this is about science proving theism. Gotcha. What exactly was this science Flew found indicated the existence of God?


37 posted on 12/26/2004 6:12:45 PM PST by LibertarianInExile (NO BLOOD FOR CHOCOLATE! Get the UN-ignoring, unilateralist Frogs out of Ivory Coast!)
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To: bannedfromdu

Banned --

We DO make a big deal of it; considering when a person here realizes, through God's guidance and grace, his need for salvation... and accepts Christ -- all the angels in Heaven rejoice! So -- why shouldn't we, who are here now, rejoice when someone begins to see the light?

I would be just as happy if YOU were to see your need for Christ. If you'd like, I'd be happy to speak with you about Him.
Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!
Neal


38 posted on 12/26/2004 6:43:50 PM PST by HossB86
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To: Elsie
There is some kind of perverse logic at work here.

Nobody's a REAL agnostic unless he thinks NOBODY knows the answers.

39 posted on 12/26/2004 6:58:35 PM PST by VadeRetro
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To: TASMANIANRED
When his heart flipped into a lethal rhythm, He sat up, opened his eyes and stared.

How odd and almost haunting that must've been to witness.

Maybe the lethal heart rhythm sent a last adrenoline like fight or flight reflex through his body as it's last gasp at life.

How did you know he was an athiest? Did he tell you this during his last days?

40 posted on 12/26/2004 6:59:39 PM PST by SunnyUsa
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