I doubt if anyone can provide you with that information. The current Vietnamese government has a poor human rights record, but the idea that anyone is being sent to a reeducation camp simply for being a Christian is nonsense. Viet Nam has a huge Roman Catholic population (6 to 8 million people, the second largest number in any country in Asia after the Philippines); there are large seminaries in both Hanoi and Ho Chi Minh City, and in addition to the Catholic Church, the Vietnamese government officially recognizes the Christian Missionary Alliance and the Southern Evangelical Church of Viet Nam.
Viet Nam needs to make major improvements in religious freedom, but anyone interested in a balanced and accurate description of the current relationship between the Vietnamese government and religious organizations might want to read the International Religious Freedom Report 2003 from the U.S. Department of State at this address:
Everyone else can continue the simpleminded commie bashing and stay ignorant.
That is about the most stupid uneducated [piece I have read. I (me) personally talked to many of the Roman Catholic Vietnamese who fled south after the Communist took over the North. I did not find one who would want to live under the control of the non humans (Communist). There were somewhere between 3 to 5 million that fled Vietnam when the non humans took over and there has NEVER been a Communist regime that has allowed any other religion except for the worship of Stalin, the state or others of the devil breed.
posted on 05/01/2005 5:15:27 AM PDT
"Everyone else can continue the simpleminded commie bashing and stay ignorant."
Any idea how many Commie sympathizers work at the state department?
posted on 12/15/2005 7:24:37 AM PST
(Texas SCV - Deo Vindice)
To: Viet_Thuy; All
posted on 12/24/2005 2:37:24 PM PST
by ALOHA RONNIE
("ALOHA RONNIE" Guyer/Veteran-"WE WERE SOLDIERS" Battle of IA DRANG-1965 http://www.lzxray.com)
To: Viet_Thuy; killjoy
You provided a link to the State Dept for 2003, try this from 2004:
You Are In: USINFO > Topics > Human Rights > International Religious Freedom
Commission Releases Report on Religious Freedom
Recommends listing six additional "countries of particular concern"
The Commission on International Religious Freedom, releasing its annual report May 12, recommended that 11 nations be designated "countries of particular concern" (CPC) for their curtailment or denial of religious freedom.
In addition to the five countries currently listed by the U.S. State Department as CPCs -- Burma, China, North Korea, Iran, and Sudan -- the committee asked Secretary of State Colin Powell to add six additional countries -- Eritrea, India, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Turkmenistan and Vietnam -- to the list.
According to the International Religious Freedom Act of 1998 (IRFA), those countries that meet the statutory criteria in that act must be designated by the secretary of state as CPCs.
However, "the simple designation by the U.S. government of a severe violator of religious freedom as a CPC is not sufficient action," the report said. "The policy of the United States also must be to take active steps in response to those countries deemed to be particularly egregious religious freedom violators."
In addition to CPC designations, the commission made several recommendations regarding religious freedom in Afghanistan and Iraq where, according to the report, "the United States has a particular responsibility to ensure that the newly formed governments are functioning democracies that protect human rights, including religious freedom." The report specifically discusses the necessity of protecting freedoms of thought, conscious and religion in the newly developed constitutions of those nations.
The Commission on International Religious Freedom was created by the International Religious Freedom Act of 1998 to make recommendations on issues of religious freedom to the president, secretary of state and Congress.
For the complete report see http://www.uscirf.gov/reports/12May04/finalReport.php3
Annual Report of the United States Commission
on International Religious Freedom
(End of report)
Killjoy: You wanted am officially non religious entity to verify anti-religious activity in Vietnam. This report calls Vietnam to be "particularly egregious religious freedom violators."
Finally in regard to the pictures shown in the original entry on Re-Education in Vietnam: Picture #2 - The arms are pulled up behind them in an elevated position. It has been a long time but I recall the returning POWs discussing the North Vietnamese torturing them with the "Rope Trick" which involoved pulling the arms back and up with ropes or chains in some fashion. It recalled this means of torture the moment I saw the picture though it may have varied from that of the Hanoi Hilton era. Realize that if the person pictured faints or becomes unable to stand the pressure on the arms and the shoulder joints would be excruciating and would likely cause the arm to leave the shoulder socket.
Quotes from your link
1) "the Government maintained supervisory control of the recognized religions"
2) "There have been credible reports since 1999 that officials pressured many Hmong and other ethnic minority Protestants in several northwestern provinces as well as many Montagnards in several Central Highland provinces to renounce their faith"
3) "the penal code, as amended in 1997, established penalties for offenses that are defined only vaguely, including "attempting to undermine national unity" by promoting "division between religious believers and non-believers."
4) "In some cases, particularly involving Hmong and Montagnard Protestants and Hoa Hao followers, when authorities charged persons with practicing religion illegally, they used Article 258 of the Penal Code that allowed for jail terms of up to 3 years for "abus(ing) the rights to freedom of speech, freedom of press, freedom of belief, religion, assembly, association and other democratic freedoms to infringe upon the interests of the State."
5) During the period covered by this report, some members of unrecognized religious groups were beaten, arrested, and/or detained by the authorities.
If I read the the Department of State report correctly, people aren't sent to a reeducation camps simply for being a Christian. They are sent there for not being an approved Christian or other religious faith.
If the state appoints the church leaders and dictates what church policies are then its a state church.
Good post. I was in Vietnam about a year and a half ago, it is a very nice place. What I see here is a bunch of hyperventilating hyperbole, thanks for setting the record straigh.
posted on 11/19/2006 9:37:43 AM PST
by Central Scrutiniser
(Pro Evolution, Pro Stem Cell Research, Pro Science, Pro Free Thought, and Conservative)
Since you think communism is so dandy why don't you move there or to Cuba?
posted on 04/01/2007 6:53:15 AM PDT
(Opening day the eternal hope of spring and the irrational belief in the impossible.)
Viet Nam still has a hard time with Protestants but that is a cultural problem. Most of the Protestants are Minorities and it is a recent phenomenon with some of the hill groups converting wholesale. The government regards it much the way our own government regarded Ghost Dancing in 1890 and the results have been just as grim. The highland minorities are understood and treated much as we understood the Indians from the late 1880s through WWI. They are on reservations and they don’t stay properly put. The army goes chasing them through the mountains to bring them back. The Protestant phenomenon has the government people bumfuddled. They don’t know how to deal with what seems to be some foreign plot to alienate their “Indians”. It will ease up and the Protestants will be “mainstreamed” in time but there will be a lot of misery inflicted before that time. The pressure from America needs to stay on.
posted on 09/06/2007 1:23:35 PM PDT
(di hanh huong den La Vang)
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