Posted on 12/27/2004 9:35:39 AM PST by red stone
one million american citizen, living on a selfruled territory of united states ...DEMAND president bush and the congress to respect and honor these fellow americans. the right to live with dignity: share rights, benefits and responsabilities with the other 50 states; equal justice; a goverment with limited power; health; prosperity; vote; democracy; our children free of poverty , safety. puerto rico "estado libre asociado " the big lie , a limbo...a colony ...the negleted state
So...do you want to be #51?
Y'all keep voting in your own legislature to keep PR from becoming a state. Not my fault.
Then vote for statehood.
You signed up last month, but I still think I smell ozone.
Puerto Ricans pay no taxes, companies in PR pay no taxes...what more do you want?
Be careful red stone, you may get what you are wishing for, the best that everyone involved in this PR situation could do would be to let PR go.
The Puerto Ricans, for the most part, hate the USA. They have now for a half-century, at least.
If the USA would sever all ties, then PR would quickly resemble more of Haiti or DR.
I say they want it, give it to them.
How about this?
We SEND back all of the P.R.'s living in NYC AND we wash our hands of PR. Then, you can fester in your own juices.
Crime will probably plummet in NYC as a result.
Please also include the PRs in Chicago. That would be a God send.
Great, just as New York is the Empire State, and Florida is the Sunshine State, Puerto Rico can be the Welfare State.
How about we turn you back over to Spain?
Bingo! Most Puerto Ricans are pretty happy with the status quo. Only a small but loud-mouthed minority wants independence and the pro-statehood faction can not seem to gather up a majority.
I think Hawaii has already claimed that title.
It already is.
The islanders refer to the descendants of Puerto Ricans born and raised in NYC, but claiming to be Puerto Rican, "New Ricans." Island Puerto Ricans hold New Ricans in absolute contempt, considering them wannabe Hispanics and criminals.
I remember when statehood was up for a vote in '99. Those who actually studied the issue said it was a pig-in-a-poke. Those who were selling the issue in PR were trumpeting the idea that Puerto Ricans would then be eligible for the full raft of social bennies, AFDC, food stamp, medicare, medicaid, SS, Pell Grants and so on. I don't know what Puerto Riquenos are currently eligible for so perhaps someone in the know could fill me in.
Another argument against was that we would be creating our very own tropical Quebec. An essentially foreign, non-english-speaking dirt-poor province that would demand to be pandered to and suck taxpayer swag with abandon (how much it sucks now, I have no idea). All I ever saw of PR was a few days at Roosey Roads when in the Nav but it was definitely seemed more foreign than, say Guam. I know that tax subsidies are used to attract businesses with dubious results. Again, pardon my ignorance but now that the military as abandoned the place with record speed after the closing of the Vieques Range we might have no compelling reason not to cut the place loose and watch it become the regions' newest banana republic overnight.
Puerto Rico = Haiti 2....
Just another fringe group hanging on the U.S. government tit that squirts money. Nothing but a gigantic welfare state, and they are demanding more -- they sound like a bunch of brain-dead liberals expecting the government to run their lives, feed them, pay thier bills and give them all the protection and rights of a U.S. state.
Choke on it PR.
I'd rather hold onto PR. There are some hardworking PRs and there are some slackers (just like anywhere else). As usually, the MSM is always going to report the bellyachers' whining over success stories.
Let me comprehend the exact nature of your comments - you want statehood (big tax increases/less welfare); you want total independence (absolutely no financial donations from big, bad brother U.S.A. Which is it please?
Yup. I was just there before it closed down, and it really did seem like a foreign country.
They have all kinds of so-called plans for using the base, but the ones they had for the former Coast Guard one on the other side of the island went nowhere due to fighting over the land use. I forsee similar results for Roosey Roads. Those folks were so happy to see us leave...wonder how long that will last?
...when you're a Jet, you're a Jet all the way from your first cigarette to your last dying day...
Cut 'em loose. Independence, not statehood.
Sounds like statements from the National Association of Liberal Colored People. In search of VICTIMHOOD, huh?
Seriously, there is no reason PR can't become part of the US if they want to and vote to. They keep refusing. Probably within a few years we will all be the United States of Norte America anyway, including Canada, Mexico and PR. Maybe even Central America. I wouldn't be surprised.
PR has had the worst brain drain in history. The cream has been skimmed so well and for so long, that there is nothing left but skim milk.
The Cubans say that Cuba and PR are two wings on the same bird, (its a geography reference but its also abou the kinship of the people) but after they see PR they say ..."Wholy $ht! We dont' want to have anything to do with that!"
How many Electoral Votes would they receive and any bets where they would end up!
Hey, it's not like we wouldn't appreciate all the taxes you'd bring in. (snort)
We've been trying for years to get y'all to fish or cut bait, and you won't do it.
So you're in a position to demand nothing.
And there is no "right to live with dignity", we're more about "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness"---seems like your countrymen interested in the latter have all come here, now why is that? Anyway, state or no, you're certainly free to pursue your own happiness as an individual (since we don't believe in group rights either). Nobody's stopping you.
Spent some time in PR recently, on the south side of the island. Loved it. Hope to return.
Its not a perfect place, but of course there is no such place. Live anywhere in Latin America for a while, and then move to PR and you'll realize what a gem it is. For a tiny country way off the beaten path, with no particular natural resource other than its considerable beauty and its people, it is a remarkably prosperous place.
Its present territorial status gives them a chance to work out their own legal system within a framework of basic US federal law. There are no doubt ways to improve on the mix, but I don't know if statehood is the answer. I don't think Puerto Ricans are interested in becoming just another American state, their present level of autonomy is probably about what any other state would have if we honored the 9th and 10th ammendments, but we don't.
So until and unless we begin to increase the autonomy of the states, PR is probably better off to remain a territory.
Independence is always an option, but not really. A trip to Dominican Republic should show you what an independent PR would look like. I notice that even indendependentistas tell people that they could be independent and keep their US citizenship, so its clear to me that no one plans to give up the blue passport.
If you are a long term resident, you can probably contribute to this discussion, you would have a feel for the problems unique to PR's territorial status.
I keep posting every time that this issue comes up that there is just too much misinformation about the matter:
- Puerto Ricans pay no federal taxes
We pay, and employers match, Social Security and Medicare taxes (FICA) at the same rate as people do on the mainland, but only get a fraction of the benefits in return. Employers also pay FUTA, or Federal Unemployment Tax. Again, at the same rate as on the mainland. On top of that, we pay a lot of steep local taxes that supplement federal programs. The one tax we don't pay is federal income tax on IRC section 933 income. Just to stress a point: The federal income tax is a democrat/liberal invention, no? So why all the fuzz? It should be the same for all states.
More on the other misconceptions later.
Come to think of it, the hard working Puerto Ricans I met weren't in PR. But the money they made outside would see them return to their home to make a difference. As time progresses, the hackers will replace the slackers. It's just a matter of time and work. There will be those that obstruct progress, but they will eventually cave to time and won't be replaced with as strong an obstruction. I suppose this is why the Revelation's author mentions that a "beast" lasts for a time and a season. It's a drag, but it's not forever. Thank God that this sort of drag is bound to that island. It's less likely that there disease will spread so long as they're contained to their own laziness.
I was offered the chance to stay. I couldn't accept for various reasons (although I wanted to and still would if I could resolve my personal issues).
So I was paying attention to the tax issue. My take-home pay would go down, as the PR tax is higher than my state tax combined with my usual federal tax. So, you're right, there is no free ride at least for individuals.
A lot of the free ride for corporations has gone away, also, so while there are certainly plenty of companies there, its pretty tough for PR to compete when their suppliers and markets are at such a distance, and the corporate tax break is gone.
Still, the place is a gem. Anglo-saxons arriving from the mainland comment on the "foreignness" of the place, which is only obvious. Arrive there from anywhere in Latin America, though, and you see it as it is. Beautiful. The only Latin American country that can compete with it is maybe South Florida (ok, I'm joking a little here).
And what about the blood tax?
Puerto Ricans were granted U.S. Citizenship in 1917, just in time for WWI
Thousands have died, along with our mainland brethren, in U.S. wars. Over 2,000 in Korea and Vietnam alone. The pilot of an F-111 shot down and killed on the raid on Lybia after the German disco bombing: A Puerto Rican (Major Fernando L. Ribas-Dominicci). 22 Puerto Ricans, or soldiers originally from Puerto Rico but who entered active duty in the mainland, have died in Operations Enduring/Iraqi Freedom. That's 22 of 1,000 combat deaths or 2% of the total. Can you say the same about your state?
At least four PR's have been awarded the Medal of Honor, all posthumously: Look 'em up - Rubio, Lozada, Garcia, Santiago. All killed in combat while "turning the tide of battle" and saving the lives of fellow soldiers from the mainland.
LOL. I have relatives in South Florida and can relate to what you're saying. But the foreingness of the place can be an asset. Our tourism industry boasts PR as an "exotic" destination, with all the ammenities of the mainland. Just on how many places on earth can you walk from the beach less than a block to a 24-hour Walgreens!
"Everyone there will have moved here."
Puerto Rico's problem is its Carribean Culture. Same goes for DR and Haiti. Most of the wealthy (productive) people on the island are either Jews or Cuban exiles, not the mulatto majority.
Again, more misinformation. I wonder what's your source.
While I agree that the Jewish and Cuban communities here, as in many places, are very productive, their numbers are just too small. They just get diluted when you consider the entire pot.
Mulatto majority - You must be talking about a different place. The 2000 US Census lists our majority, 80%, as white of Spanish origin.
If you want to talk where economic power is concentrated on the island, I can give you a few names: Fonalledas, Carrion, Villamil, Ramirez de Arellano. Certainly not Jewish or Cuban names. And these families concentrate mostly in real estate and banking. The majority of PR's either own or are employed in micro to small business, followed by the service sector, retail, manufacturing and government.
I would appreciate if you could get your facts straight before posting. Stereotyping doesn't contribute anything.
Just how do you propose to do that, Mr. Texan?
What's wrong with Americans claiming their full rights under the Constitution?
Maybe when you folks decide to become #51 and pay taxes.
Until such time as that, STFU - you get what you pay for.
Anyone who knowa anything about PRs sociological history knows that "whiteness" is a relative concept. Culturally and racially, it is an Afro/Spanish society. Put the average Puerto Rican next to the average white Spaniard and you will see a clear difference.
Yeah! And then we'll resurrect the PRs KIA in Iraq (15 so far) and all those PRs KIA in VN (more from PR than from 37 of the states) and send them back too, the rat-bastard ingrates.
I'll bet that 99% of the yahoos posting here have never spent more than ten days there and that 75% have not even spent one. It's just easy for these clowns to jump on the bandwagon without having any real knowledge.
Yeah, whitenees is relative, put the average Italian next to the average Swede and you will see a difference.
Amen.
Also, the number of PR's killed in OIF/OEF now stands at 23, with the loss on Monday of SPC Jose Rivera-Serrano to a roadside IED.
I do business on the Island, have for years and I say that you're full of it, but hey, I can only speak from years of actual experience, I lack the wisdom that comes from distance.
So what does Puerto Rico do for us, I say turn them loose. They won't even let us use Vieques, what good are they to us?
Listen, Major. Regarding taxes, please see post # 31. Regarding us deciding to become # 51, well, I refer you to the territorial clause of the US Constitution. It is up to Congress, not us. The locally held plebiscites or referenda held on status are mere straw polls that mean nothing.
STFU? Never and you can't make me. I am an American, with over 21 years of military service under my belt, who happens to have been born in the United States Territory of Puerto Rico, which was annexed on Teddy Roosevelt's instructions way back in 1898.
Before you shoot from the hip with your prejudices I suggest you get some more education.
So, along your line of "thinking", the Navy wanted to move the Vieques range to South Padre Island in Texas. They refused. Should we set Texas free or return them to Mexico?
What do "we" do for "you"? Are we suppossed to be, like, your servants or something? But if you want to play the us/them game, well, here goes it:
"I am an American, with over 21 years of military service under my belt,"
Congrats. Thanks for your service.
As to prejudice, I have nothing to go by but my empirical observations of Puerto Ricanos (sorry, no tilde on keyboard) in the NY metro area. They did not demonstrate a particularly positive experience during our interactions.
Now, I know what you're thinking - Prejudiced gringo - nothing could be further from the truth. My wife is Ecuadorian and I enjoy Latino culture. Just not PR.
As to more Education, as you have obviously looked at my profile, you most certainly know that I hava bachelors as well as two masters. Perhaps I need then a Ph.D. in some truly arcane deiscipline to understand and overcome my purported prejudice.
Perhaps we should Un-Annex Pr and cut you folks lose. THat would work fine for me.
Have some more Rum - your misery will go away for a time.
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