Red Cross rep in WWII?

12/27/04 | ExSoldier's Father in Law

[ExSoldier]

Son, I hold the Navy Cross, the Distinguished Flying Cross (three awards), the Silver Star and I've been credited with seventeen air to air kills in the Pacific Theatre while flying with both the Black Sheep and Blackburns Irregulars. I'm here to tell you that to this day: I HATE THE RED CROSS!!!

Why, dad?

Because they charged us for everything we ever got from them. Didn't matter if it was a bar of soap, a razor or a candy bar, if the Red Cross provided it in a combat zone, the men who did the dyin' paid cash money! I won't take squat from them to this day. I sure won't give 'em anything, either!

[ExSoldier]

Okay, I teach American History, but this is news to me! But, TODAY, I was admiring pop's medals on the wall when he suddenly blurts this amazing and shocking piece of information. This old guy is a genuine hero. Jumps forty zeros all by himself and downs eight before he's backed up by his squadron mates. Action was witnessed by an Aussie coastwatcher. This got him his third DFC, in a war and an era when combat medals meant something, spectacular.....not like the examples provided by John Effin Kerry.

I just wanted to post this for the historical value and to point up the dangers of revisionist history. This was a very ugly thing to have happen to our service members. Thank God he told me, it's something he could have taken to his grave.

[CaptRon]

I can remember my grandmother telling me this (she was referring to WWI and WWII). She always said she'd give anything to the Salvation Army but not a nickel to the Red Cross.

[bushisdamanin04]

I have heard this same complaint before.

[Lonesome in Massachussets]

BTW, I've heard the same thing about the Red Cross from other veterans (except that the Red Cross were never really near the front lines in Europe) and exactly the OPPOSITE about the SALVATION ARMY. Remember that when you see the red kettle.

Salvation Army, on the front lines, providing comfort gratis.

[dandelion]

My father told me the same thing (Navy, 1940-1946, Pacific Theater)- he always gave to Salvation Army. He said he wouldn't give to the Red Cross because they would charge the military men for anything they brought to them. He described having to hungrily walk by a Red Cross station that had doughnuts, because he had no money to buy the items. But the Salvation army gave them everything for free.

Yes, I'd love to hear the scoop on this one... why on earth would the Red Cross charge men for food and drinks when the items were donated to them in the first place?

[green pastures]

Yes, I've heard this too. When my mom was a child during WWII, she said they would save pennies, nickels and dimes for the Red Cross, to help with small things like coffee and candy for the soldiers. They later found out that the Red Cross even charged the soldiers for coffee.

Her sentiments echo those of your father.

[Spok]

The Red Cross did no better by GI's in the Vietnam War. The only real gifts I ever got was from the Salvation Army and Cardinal Spellman's Servicemen's Club.

[tall_tex]

My uncle was a Korean War Veteran, he told me the same thing.

[ORECON]

Same thing in Viet Nam. Salvation Army #1, Red Cross #10.

[investigateworld]

My father got chewed up in Northern France (1944) and spent approitmately 18 months in military hospitals. He too stated the Red Cross charged for everything.

[dandelion]

Okay, here's one version of this story from the Red Cross:

http://www.greaterkzooredcross.org/News/Myths & Legends.htm

"Myths & Legends About the Red Cross

I.Famous Red Cross doughnut sales during World War II

A.World War II ended almost 50 years ago but Dear Abby or Dear Ann Landers continue to mention in their columns complaints from people who remember or have heard about the awful things the Red Cross did during the war.

1.The most nefarious: the selling of doughnuts, coffee, and other refreshments to soldiers in the so called ?rear areas? (behind the front lines).

2.This was upsetting to soldiers because the Red Cross has traditionally dispensed such items for free.

B.The truth is that Red Cross officials and volunteers were just as upset about the sales as were the soldiers. The Red Cross was ordered to sell the refreshments rather than give them away as planned by Secretary of War Henry Stimson in 1942. Noting that American soldiers in Europe had more money than their Allied counterparts, Stimson feared that morale among the Allied troops was suffering. American soldier received refreshments free; Allied soldiers had to pay for them. To make living conditions more even, in the hopes of improving morale, Stimson ordered the Red Cross to charge for refreshments in the ?rear area.? Mobile units that served at the front lines were exempted from the order and did not charge.

C.    Although the incident occurred 50 years ago, many soldiers and their families continue to believe that the Red Cross used the war as a moneymaking opportunity. Nothing could be further from the truth.

II.Myths about World War II

A.The Red Cross sold cigarettes, blankets, and other "comfort" items during WWII. The truth: if cigarettes or other such items that were designated as ?free? were sold, it was illegal and in violation of Red Cross policy. It is believed that a few unscrupulous people did sell those items provided by the Red Cross, but it was for personal gain, not to help the Red Cross. In addition, Red Cross could not control items given to a serviceman then sold by the service member to others.

B.The Red Cross sold blood during the war. The truth: The American Red Cross collected more than 13 million pints of blood for use in the was effort at home and abroad, but ?administered? no blood to the wounded anywhere in the world. Neither did it ever charge anyone for blood. Once the blood was turned over to military or civilian hospitals, it was out of Red Cross control.

C.The Red Cross indiscriminately refused to provide travel funds for some service men during the war. The truth: Travel funds for service personnel were routinely provided when the commanding officer of an individual?s unit authorized emergency leave orderes. The Red Cross also authorized pre-embarkation and post-embarkation furloughs, but the cost became so great as troop strength increased, that these ordinary leave loans had to be discontinued in 1944 as they interfered with other more essential military services. A total of $2.5 million loans were made during the war.

Today, as always, military commanders make decisions about emergency leaves. Red Cross provides verified information about the family or home situation prompting the emergency."

[SF Republican]

My father confirmed the same years ago.

[optimistically_conservative]

SAN DIEGO/IMPERIAL COUNTIES AMERICAN RED CROSS

Coffee & Donuts: Learning the Whole Story

Bloodmobile chairmen and volunteers hear it. Donor Resources Development consultants hear it. Nearly every day someone in Red Cross hears the story of how American servicemen were asked to pay for coffee and donuts during World War II. The story has even appeared in Ann Landers' columns.

The fact is that the policy to charge for refreshments served in American Red Cross clubs in 'rear areas" was ordered by then Secretary of War Henry B. Stimson in 1942. Over the protests of Red Cross officials, Stimson decided American soldiers should pay for their Red Cross meals, just as their Allied counterparts did at English and Australian clubs.

However, coffee, donuts and other food served at the front lines remained free. Red Cross did not charge for comfort articles distributed to soldiers or for snacks served by clubmobiles. If these items were sold, it was done illegally or in ignorance.

Nevertheless, hard feelings over the situation persist.

"The story and the emotions are always there in the background," Linda Wigness, Donor Resources Development Director, said. "Sometimes people even use it as an excuse not to give blood, because they have bad feelings about Red Cross. We see the story being passed on to another generation."

The best defense, Linda said, is to reiterate the facts about the situation and to show the positive work of the Red Cross during the war. Between 1941 and 1946 American Red Cross collected and spent about S380 million for military and naval relief to American armed forces. To support this effort, it purchased 1.5 billion cigarettes, 31 million packages of chewing gum, 17 million decks of playing cards, 121 million razor blades and 58 million pounds of donut flour.

General MacArthur, Admiral Halsey and General Eisenhower all praised the American Red Cross for its dedication to helping soldiers and its valuable relief work. It was also discovered during polls of servicemen that, although many had heard others express dissatisfaction with Red Cross, those with firsthand experience with Red Cross were very positive about the organization.

Bill Schock, editor of the Falls City, (Neb.) Journal, was one of those who knew the Red Cross' work firsthand during the war. Bill was a prisoner of war at Stalag Luft I a camp in extreme northern Germany. Red Cross parcels of crackers, raisins, coffee, salmon and chocolate bars served as food for the body and the soul.

The arrival of the Red Cross boxes was a terrific emotional lift for the prisoners of war, serving as a much- needed link with the outside world," Bill said. "They showed us that somebody cared."

When delivery of the parcels was interrupted. Bill's German captors told the prisoners American fighter pilots were shooting at the trains carrying the goods. The boxes became pawns in emotional warfare. But the prisoners were not fooled.

"I feel that I owe my life to the Red Cross parcels which arrived at Stalag Luft I." Bill said. "I can't say enough good things about what they meant to me."

Ann Landers' Article
1942 Letter From Secretary of War Henry B. Stimson

[AZamericonnie]

I wonder what the difference is from the international red cross & the American red cross. Perhaps the international was where the problems stemmed

[fredhead]

My Dad,(2nd BN, 13th Infantry) also told me this. The Red Cross selling coffee and doughnuts to soldiers on the combat zone. What a cold and heartless thing to do.

[JDoutrider]

Tis True...

My Dad was charged for a donut and coffee during Dub Dub 2 after being rescued after his ship went down.

In Nam, the Red Cross never gave anything away...

But I did hear if you wanted a slice of round eye, it was fifty bucks...)

[freecopper01]

Do they still do that? If not, when did they stop?

[dandelion]

Type in the URL: they have "spaces" in the URL, so it won't translate for some reason. Yes, according to their own site, they DID sell these items.

http://www.greaterkzooredcross.org/News/Myths & Legends.htm

[DaughterOfAnIwoJimaVet]

My dad said the same thing. He hated them. What your dad told you is absolutely accurate. Donuts, coffee, toothbrushes - it didn't matter. They had to pay.

That's why we don't ever donate to the Red Cross.

[dakine]

In the book: "Foot Soldier" by Roscoe C. Blunt, Jr.

he relates the same contempt for the Red Cross

[DaughterOfAnIwoJimaVet]

II.Myths about World War II

A.The Red Cross sold cigarettes, blankets, and other "comfort" items during WWII. The truth: if cigarettes or other such items that were designated as ?free? were sold, it was illegal and in violation of Red Cross policy. It is believed that a few unscrupulous people did sell those items provided by the Red Cross, but it was for personal gain, not to help the Red Cross. In addition, Red Cross could not control items given to a serviceman then sold by the service member to others.

Liars. Filthy liars.

Do they think our WWII vets are stupid, and couldn't figure out who was charging for things? Give me a break.

[reformedliberal]

I have been told by people who were then teenagers that in the 1950s, in southern Illinois, the Red Cross charged for coffee for volunteers sandbagging the levees . It was only a dime, but often, no one had even a dime on them and this was during an emergency.

We give to the Salvation Army, only.

[TommyUdo]

This sentiment is echoed by many a former soldier, including myself.

The Salvation Army gave me a very nice bag of essential stuff (Bible, soap, razor, pen, writing paper, etc.) while I was standing in line with what seemed like several million other GI's at the Overseas Replacement Station at Fort Dix in 1969. They had done this very act once nine months earlier at my "Induction Station."

Earlier that week I had the occasion to ask the Red Cross in NYC for $3.00 so I could make a bus to this rendezvous, as I was 19, out of money, and close to AWOL (spare me the lectures). They refused to "loan" it to me because I was not assigned to any unit other than USARV and couldn't give them my CO's name so they could chase me down in case I "defaulted." Finally some nice lady who felt sorry for a poor SP4 from the wrong side of the tracks in the Big City slipped me a Five Spot. (After treating me to a Heavenly Chocolate Malted at the Port Authority.)

I've always donated to the Salvation Army since then. The Red Cross can stuff it.

[Coldwater Creek]

My Husband was on a medivac flight from Germany to the US, and the Red Cross offered the patients coffee and donuts. No one on that flight had a penny with them and the Red Cross said to bad that they had to charge. There was never a good word uttered again about the American Red Cross, and my Husband will not let us give them one dime and tells everyone that will listen not to either.

[pt17]

My late father, who went through the entire Pacific theatre, up to and including the occupation of Japan, absolutely detested the Red Cross. According to him, they charged rediculous prices for coffee, donuts, etc., looked down on enlisted men and seemed to be in it for themselves.

[OldFriend]

Not new to me. Heard this long ago and heard it again during Viet Nam.

Even when a soldier flies home due to a death in the family, the Red Cross charges them.

[optimistically_conservative]

I heard that the Red Cross required servicemen to pay for coffee and donuts during World War II. Is that true?

While it is true, the reasons for it are not well-known. All English and Australian men in uniform had to pay for off-base food and lodging because voluntary giving (which is characteristic of the United States) was not the pattern in other countries. The Red Cross was asked by the government to establish club facilities for U.S. servicemen overseas where troops for Allied forces would be welcome. The British high command then made an official request that U.S. servicemen be required to pay for whatever they received, just as the British and Australians had to pay. The Red Cross was adamantly opposed to this concept and protested vehemently. They lost the fight, however, when a letter of "request" came from Secretary of War Henry L. Stimson to Norman H. Davis, Chairman of the American Red Cross on March 20, 1942. His letter was tantamount to a command with which the Red Cross complied. The organization has been living with the ramifications of this request ever since.

[Coldwater Creek]

All of these are not myths. Our experience was with coffee, donuts, cigarettes. This was not during WW11, but during the cold war.

[freecopper01]

I'm glad you can remember the Lady with the five-spot and that wonderful Heavenly Chocolate Malted! It's a wonder, insn't it, what angels are dropped into our live!

[green peanut]

Yup......I was a young boy durning WW2, but both of my uncles told me the same thing. One served in Europe, the other in the Pacific.

They said they would never give to the Red Cross. Red Cross CHARGED the GIs for EVERYTHING.

[kimosabe31]

Wow...you sure stirred up a tempest with this red cross thing. But it's a great post "Ex". I can only add that my two uncles who served in WWII both came home really pissed at the rc because rc was charging the troops for cigarettes while the SA gave them away for free. Apparently from the responses you're getting, the rc has been scamming the troops from as early as WWI. Imagine what they must charge for a pint of donated blood.

Well, they have to keep their exec limo fleet running.

[dandelion]

Here's the only excerpt from the Stimson letter I can find re: Red Cross...

http://www.saredcross.org/pdf/winter2003.pdf

"The War Department appreciates the motive of the Red Cross with respect to this matter and its established policy of free service, but under the circumstances it is believed impractical, unnecessary and undesirable that food and lodging be furnished free. It is believed advisable that American soldiers be required to pay at least the actual cost of meals and lodging furnished for their convenience and benefits while on furlough."

According to this excerpt, the payments were supposed to apply ONLY to MEALS and LODGING for men on FURLOUGH - and it was merely advised, not DIRECTED.

They charged for EVERYTHING. FOR EVERYONE, regardless of where they were, and they put it out there right in front of them where they could see it but couldn't have it unless they paid for it. If the Red Cross' own literature is to be believed, then they did ask for pay, and they were not DIRECTED to do so. Case closed.

[IndependantVoter]

I have no idea if what you say about the Red Cross then is true are not but I am sure your father would not have lied to you about his experiences.But I saw the Red Cross and its mostly volunteers who do the work spend every night during the hurricane season here in Florida do an outstanding job of servicing the needy etc. At the local level which is really the heart of the Red Cross so much is done for people that are in need that it would be impossible to tell you everything they do. They do not charge for anything. I would suggest volunteering and seeing how much they do help before judging their present day services. In general the paid staffed at the local areas are overworked and underpaid but they do the job out of the same caring heart that you say you have for yours.

[investigateworld]

Post # 13 answers the question. It was his experience that pay checks never caught with with him, hence he couldn't even buy a cup. He always stated he wouldn't give them the steam of his p#ss. My experience was limited to 1970 to 1972. The Salvation Army did give us toiletries.

[Rebelbase]

My dad spent 3 weeks as a Red Cross volunteer last year helping in Eastern NC after Hurricane Isabel.

Everything was given away free according to him.

[Tripoli]

You are correct. It was so when I served during 1952-1955. It was also true during WWI in France, where my gramps served.

The Salvation Army was always there for the soldier, though.

[TommyUdo]

Yes, I was in love with NYC and the people there before this. It just cemented the deal.

The people were unfailingly nice to me. I stayed at the Waldorf for cheap. Got free or reduced rate tickets to stuff, (Circle Line, Empire State, etc.) and finally this nice lady.

[optimistically_conservative]

The "Coffee & Doughnuts" Issue

War Department Letter
March 1942

Mr. Norman H. Davis
Chairman
American National Red Cross
Washington, DC

Dear Mr. Davis:

United States military authorities in Great Britain have requested the Red Cross to establish clubs in certain cities in that area with a view to providing, as circumstances dictate, sleeping accommodations and meals in addition to the usual recreational facilities. The provision of food and lodging for enlisted personnel while on furlough, and at prices within their means, is a most important recreational facility, as many soldiers cannot otherwise avail themselves of leave privileges. Red Cross officials appear to be reluctant to provide these accommodations, except on a basis of no charge to servicemen, unless specifically requested by the Commanding General in that area to provide them at some cost to the recipients.

The War Department appreciates the motive of the Red Cross with respect to this matter and its established policy of free serve, but under the circumstances it is believed impractical, unnecessary, and undesirable that food and lodging be furnished free. It is understood that all similar allied clubs in the British Isles make suitable charges for this particular service. It is believed advisable that American soldiers be required to pay at least the actual cost of meals and lodging furnished for their convenience and benefit while on furlough. Such procedure is considered a sound business arrangement and conforms to local practice. It is therefore believed that such procedure should be adopted because of its merit rather than because the local military commander requests that charges be made for the proposed services.

The War Department Recommends that the Red Cross authorities in the British Isles be authorized to provide these services at such cost as they deem appropriate.

Sincerely yours

Henry L. Stimson

Secretary of War

[GretchenM]

I didn't know this and am glad to read the nine follow-up posts confirming the thread. It surely makes choosing an organization to donate to a lot simpler.

What a kick in the pants to our GI's.

[kimosabe31]

Was the Salvation Army not similarly ordered by Stimson??

[freecopper01]

Wow. Probably explains why I always have an urge to drop money in a red kettle when I see one but don't feel much for the other. Problem with the Red Cross: Like most corporations (it's run like one) they do not punish the evildoers....

[SuperLuminal]

BS! I can tell you first-hand that coffee and donuts WERE NOT FREE in any areas of Korea (52-53).

Also, I can clearly remember my Dad (USMC 42-45) telling me the same thing about the Red Cross in the Pacific theater.

Salvation Army, USO's (stateside), and Hollywood were the great supporters of the troops in WWII and KW.

Drop in to any VFW (very soon...before it is too late) and just ask around.

[Mark was here]

One of the dumbest things I ever did was send the Red Cross a donation after 911. Next thing you hear is how they are out shopping for new office equipment. Never Again.

[GadareneDemoniac]

But that doesn't explain why they charged my wounded cousin for stuff in the Korean War.
He had no kind words about the Red Cross.

[optimistically_conservative]

My guess is the Salvation Army was not requested to establish the services and as a result, so ordered...

[Gorzaloon]

My father told me the same thing, 1117th, Europe. And he told me in a most forceful manner, and then proceeded to demonstrate it by chasing Red Cross canvassers off the property.

The Salvation Army gets it all, from this house, to this day. In a way, I think the SA is a little goofy, but they are sincere, mean every word, really DO help people, and do not spend the money on Lear Jets for their directors.

[tall_tex]

Re: #33.. I posted what my uncle told me. I have not posted my opinion regarding the Red Cross. I have learned more about their activities during our wars here on FR in 10 minutes of reading than I knew before.

I will evaluate and research those posts and possibly then come to an opinion.

Thanks for your help.

[investigateworld]

The Portland area honcho for the Goodwill is knocking down $250,000 P/A, plus bennies. Needless to say, I too support the Salvation Army.

[DaughterOfAnIwoJimaVet]

Ping.

[dandelion]

Stimson said ONLY IN THE BRITISH ISLES!!

OMG those lying sumsab****es!!!