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Lawyer Claims FBI Informer Linked to McVeigh Bombing
Salt Lake Tribune ^ | 12/28/04 | Pamela Manson

Posted on 12/28/2004 9:31:06 AM PST by gopwinsin04

A Salt Lake city attorney Jesse Trentadue says two teletypes sent by the FBI director show that an informer had infiltrated a paramilitary training compound in Oklahoma known at 'Elohim City' and was there in April 1995 when one of the bombing suspects called looking for co-conspirators.

Trentadue believes at one time the FBI was investigating whether a gang that robbed a string of midwestern banks to fund attacks on the government was connected to the bombing.

The accusation made in the lawsuit alledges the FBI is violating the federal Freedom of Information Act by refusing to turn over the documents.

The name of the informant and caller are blacked out, but Trentadue suspects they are Andreas Strassmeir, a German national who said he was the weapons and explosives instructor of the compound and Timothy McVeigh who was allegedly trying to recuit accomplices two weeks before the bombing of the Murrah Federal Building that killed 168 people.

The attorney said he believes Strassmeir was working with either the FBI or the Southern Poverty Law Center, an Alabama based civil right group, which was relaying information to the agency.

Trentadue does not say how he obtained the teletypes, which appear to have been sent by bombing investigators.

In an affidavit attached to Monday's filing, veteran FBI agent Emanuel Johnson Jr. says he believes the teletypes are genuine and that they are easily retrievable from agency files.

(Excerpt) Read more at sltrib.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Extended News; Foreign Affairs; Government; News/Current Events; US: Oklahoma; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: andreasstrassmeir; ci; clintonlegacy; coverup; domesticterrorism; elohimcity; emanueljohnsonjr; fbi; fia; foi; foia; freedomofinformation; johnson; mcveigh; murrahbuilding; okc; okcbombing; splc; strassmeir; terrorism; timothymcveigh; trentadue; whitewash
Paging Rep. Dan Burton..
1 posted on 12/28/2004 9:31:07 AM PST by gopwinsin04
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To: gopwinsin04
The name of the informant and caller are blacked out, but Trentadue suspects they are Andreas Strassmeir

We knew this years ago.

2 posted on 12/28/2004 9:46:22 AM PST by ravingnutter
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To: gopwinsin04
I guess one thing that bothered me about Jayna Davis's book is that she didn't deal with the Elohim City story at all. But my guess is that it (Elohim City) is disinformation.

ML/NJ

3 posted on 12/28/2004 9:47:56 AM PST by ml/nj
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To: gopwinsin04
Paging Janna Davis....

Paging Buckhead.

4 posted on 12/28/2004 9:48:20 AM PST by upchuck (I support the right of leftists to damage their credibility by saying stupid things out loud. MAdams)
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To: ml/nj

I still want to know who Terry Nicols was talking to overseas..


5 posted on 12/28/2004 9:59:33 AM PST by gopwinsin04
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To: All
The accusation made in the lawsuit alledges the FBI is violating the federal Freedom of Information Act by refusing to turn over the documents.

In years past CBS, et al. sued to get documents released. No. Won't do it.

Case is closed. Two white supremacist, Christian, ditto-head white boys done it. Case closed. Why refuse to show the documents? Could be connections of other right wing radio hosts. Just ask the Southern Poverty Law Center -- you'll likely have to give money to Morris Dees first, however.

Oh well, it took a few Americans years of suffering through ridicule, abuse, and threats of harm to get the truth about Ruby Ridge and Waco.

Just a metter of time. Release all the info. Common sense says it's a great way to prove there really was just the two involved. Go figure.

Two rightwing middle class American white boys. Absolutely no national security stuff. Go figure.

6 posted on 12/28/2004 10:04:37 AM PST by WilliamofCarmichael (MSM Fraudcasters are skid marks on journalism's clean shorts.)
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To: ravingnutter

Its like something out of a Tom Clancy novel isnt it?


7 posted on 12/28/2004 10:04:39 AM PST by gopwinsin04
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To: gopwinsin04
This jibes with Ambrose Evans-Pitchard's reporting in the late 90's. He identified Andreas Strassmeir as a pivotal figure in Elohim City with professional (German) military expertise. Strassmeir apparently passed his demolition skills on to the radical white supremacist Elohim City group. Strassmeir seems to have been lent to the US by the German government for use in a domestic terrorism intelligence operation.

Despite this new indication of a government coverup about a warning from Strassmeir, Terry Nichols' ties to the Philippines and Muslim terrorism seem more likely to have been at the heart of the Oklahoma City bombing. The Strassmeir aspect nevertheless indicates gross bumbling or worse by the Clinton era FBI, derelictions that were to be repeated to far more devastating effect on 9/11.

Is there any explanation other than partisanship and bias for why the media has fawned over the 9/11 families and the "Jersey Girls" but has so cruelly ignored and belittled the OKC bombing families and their quest for truth and accountability from the federal government?
8 posted on 12/28/2004 10:05:50 AM PST by Rockingham
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To: WilliamofCarmichael

And Johnny Doe 2 supposedly relocating on the east coast getting a job at Boston's Logan Airport, kind of makes one's head spin..


9 posted on 12/28/2004 10:06:03 AM PST by gopwinsin04
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To: gopwinsin04

Yep. Red Storm Rising.


10 posted on 12/28/2004 10:07:42 AM PST by Smokin' Joe (My doctor gave me celebrex, bextra, serevent,,,,said quit smoking. I threw out the drugs...)
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To: Rockingham
What about McVeigh and those Iraqis meetings in the OKC hotels?

That report was completely cast aside along with Tim's organizer book of phone numbers full of phone numbers recovered at the scene

11 posted on 12/28/2004 10:08:37 AM PST by gopwinsin04
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To: gopwinsin04

Mebbe Carol Howe. Trying to get through to the feebees after the ATF hadn't moved on the info.


12 posted on 12/28/2004 10:08:43 AM PST by Smokin' Joe (My doctor gave me celebrex, bextra, serevent,,,,said quit smoking. I threw out the drugs...)
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To: gopwinsin04

That the BATF was tracking Strassmeir and McViegh, when McViegh hit a BATF federal building in OKC, should tell you all that you need to know, presuming that you can read between very, very wide lines.


13 posted on 12/28/2004 10:18:45 AM PST by Southack (Media Bias means that Castro won't be punished for Cuban war crimes against Black Angolans in Africa)
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To: gopwinsin04
True. Nichols, whom McVeigh followed and looked up to, was probably the original link to Islamic terrorism and Iraqi intelligence. There is a lot of evidence that Saddam had his fingers in the OKC bombing. Jim Woolsey sees the evidence for it as sufficient for further investigation, but the entire subject seems to be off limits, as if too many people are compromised for it to be pursued.
14 posted on 12/28/2004 10:21:52 AM PST by Rockingham
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To: Rockingham
I cannot understand why the government and mainstream media refuses to take seriously the fact that McVeigh and Nichols were fall guys for Middle-Eastern terrorists. The only reason I can think of is political correctness run amok. "John Doe 3" is so obviously the Iraqi Al Husseini (a former Iraqi military officer) as to be an evidential slam dunk. He has been named as a unindicted co-conspirator in at least 1 civil trial and 1 appeal. That Palestinian and other Mid-East natives were directly involved is also an undisputed fact. Terry Nichols was in direct contact with Ramzi Yousef, Al Qaeda's Numero Ono explosives expert and head of that organization's terror ops.
Also note that a colonel in Saddam's Fedayeen attended a meeting in Malaysia where the 9-11 attacks were first planned. Pan-Am flt 800 was brought down on Iraqi Independence Day. Saddam Hussein made a veiled reference to the attack in a speech he gave before Baath Party loyalists the day before the event happened. Iraqi under Saddam was heavily involved in international terror.
15 posted on 12/28/2004 10:29:39 AM PST by attiladhun2
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To: Rockingham
I cannot understand why the government and mainstream media refuses to take seriously the fact that McVeigh and Nichols were fall guys for Middle-Eastern terrorists. The only reason I can think of is political correctedness run amok. "John Doe 3" is so obviously the Iraqi Al Husseini (a former Iraqi military officer) as to be an evidential slam dunk. He has been named as a unindicted co-conspirator in at least 1 civil trial and 1 appeal. That Palestinian and other Mid-East natives were directly involved is also an undisputed fact. Terry Nichols was in direct contact with Ramzi Yousef, Al Qaeda's Numero Ono explosives expert and head of that organization's terror ops.
Also note that a colonel in Saddam's Fedayeen attended a meeting in Malaysia where the 9-11 attacks were first planned. PanAm flt 800 was brought down on Iraqi Independence Day. Saddam Hussein made a veiled reference to the attack in a speech he gave before Baath Party loyalists the day before the event happened. Iraqi under Saddam was heavily involved in international terror.
16 posted on 12/28/2004 10:31:52 AM PST by attiladhun2
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To: Rockingham
the entire subject seems to be off limits

Everything for the entire Eight Years of Clinton seems to be off limits. We can't even find out who stole the W's, or if they were stolen!

ML/NJ

17 posted on 12/28/2004 10:33:57 AM PST by ml/nj
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To: gopwinsin04

Hussien al-Hussien's employment by MASSPORT at Boston's Logan Airport was confirmed in his failed libel case against Jayna Davis. Husseini was "a person of concern" to the FBI because of statements he made at the trial. So how the hell does he get a job at Logan? By the way, Hussein al-Hussein was most likely a member of Unit 999 from the Salman Pak terrorist training camp in Iraq.


18 posted on 12/28/2004 11:25:03 AM PST by massgopguy (massgopguy)
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To: attiladhun2

The MSM loves Clinton. If the truth about OKC comes to light, he will be further disgraced. The MSM certainly doesn't want that to happen.


19 posted on 12/28/2004 11:27:08 AM PST by Rocky Mountain High
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To: attiladhun2
I think that there are closely related reasons why the federal government does not want to pursue the matter:

(1) If the full story were known -- incompetence, dereliction, coverup, perjury, and so on -- many would have their reputations and careers ruined. This includes people who have risen in the bureaucracy in the years since the OKC bombing.

(2) CIA and NSA analysts have long suffered from analytical blindness about the links between Islamic terrorists and Saddam. In part, this is because they are often bad at their jobs, but also because of political pressures and loyalties.

(3) Instead of taking on dangerous and messy human intelligence operations in Islamic countries, for decades, the CIA has relied on cooperating intelligence services. These supposed allies serve their interests more than ours and often lie to us. Saddam bought a lot of friends in the Mid East and, after the Gulf War, was defanged but still useful to Sunnis in general and the Saudis in particular. Saddam was a bulwark against Iran and kept his foot on the neck of the Shias, who dominate the Saudi oil territories. Thus Saddam was still in good favor with the people whom we relied on for intelligence about him -- and many of the terrorists were on the Saudi payroll.

(4) Clinton refused to deal with international terrorism, which meant that the bureaucracy ignored and downplayed the problem. Remember, since McGovern in 1972, Democrats do not do wars, which is what fighting terrorism requires. Rather than have the grief of fighting his own party, Clinton chose to do nothing of consequence about terrorism, and so the intelligence was shaped to that end by his many supporters in the CIA and NSA. Contrary to what people usually think, the CIA is run by liberals, and they are especially dominant among the analysts.

(5) The mainstream news media recognizes that stories about coverup and weak investigation of the OKC bombing and TWA 800 would damage Bill Clinton's reputation and Hillary's prospects in 2008.
20 posted on 12/28/2004 11:38:58 AM PST by Rockingham
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To: gopwinsin04

Evans Pritchard's guess was that John Doe #2 is Mike Brescia, who is (or was recently) serving a jail sentence for bank robberies and (if my memory serves me correctly) a home invasion robbery.

Seperate point worth noting: FBI Informant is anything but the same as "undercover agent." I have also heard it claimed that the leader (now deceased, right?) of Elohim City was also an occasional informant as well. At minimum, this tells us that these folks liked to make money on the side AND get a little bit of "looking the other way" (a la Huggy Bear) to boot. Some have suggested US Govt complicity, but more evidence is needed to build that case than "bad guys at the compound also informed the FBI."

The Carol Howe case is interesting in re: Elohim City as well.

I heard Jayna Davis on a radio show, and she seemed to dodge questions about Elohim City in order to emphasize her international conspiracy thesis. I have limited exposure to Ms. Davis' ideas, so this is not intented as a serious critique, but rather adding a tidbit of info for you all.


21 posted on 12/28/2004 11:39:15 AM PST by ER_in_OC,CA
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To: WilliamofCarmichael
Two rightwing middle class American white boys. Absolutely no national security stuff. Go figure

McVeigh's execution certainly set the record for speed. Has anyone been executed more quickly in the past 30 years?

22 posted on 12/28/2004 11:42:38 AM PST by ladyjane
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To: Rockingham
Excellent summary!

Eloheim City provided great potential synergy between US and German intelligence:

Germany for years battled white supremacists in their country who often used contacts in the US for publishing racist literature, where such activity is legal. Meanwhile, the US worried about nuclear materials in former East Bloc countries finding their way into the hands of anti-government types and other (Middle East) baddies.

What would be more seductive to ambitious US goose-steppers than to get a souped-up, hot-headed, real GERMAN kook among their ranks?

Your pehpahs ah out ufff OHDAH...!

And so Germany put their man Streissmeir (whose father is a prominent German politician) on loan to the yanks. Andy would fly over the America, mix in with a bunch of US kooks, and get the goods on them.

Everybody would be happy!

Only, in most cases Streissmeir would act as agent-provocateur mostly, and then US authorities ended up acting too late on a brewing terror plot; they wanted to nab everyone red-handed juuuuust before the dirty deed, and instead ended up with egg on their faces.

Ach, sheitze...!

Andy had to be smuggled south across the US/Mexican border, and then out of the country, macht schnell.

The John Doe II Times is highly recommended reading....

23 posted on 12/28/2004 2:40:24 PM PST by gaijin
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To: Rockingham
The John Doe II Times
24 posted on 12/28/2004 2:45:12 PM PST by gaijin
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To: Rockingham
"Remember, since McGovern in 1972, Democrats do not do wars..."

Did you miss that whole 1999 war on Serbia episode?! Who do you think was President when we started bombing Bosnia in 1995, too?!

25 posted on 12/28/2004 9:26:23 PM PST by Southack (Media Bias means that Castro won't be punished for Cuban war crimes against Black Angolans in Africa)
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To: gaijin
That seems to be just about what happened -- adding in the rumored warnings and curious absence of some ATF agents from the Murah building on the day of the bombing. One agent even spun a dramatic tale on national TV of his miraculous escape by prying apart the doors of an elevator. However, rescue workers reported that the damage was such that no elevators had been opened. The agent suddenly became unavailable for comment, and especially not to answer questions about his apparent absence on the day of the bombing.
26 posted on 12/29/2004 5:37:20 AM PST by Rockingham
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To: Southack

With only high altitude bombing and no ground combat by the US, Bosnia and Serbia hardly count as a war for us. Grenada was more of a war than our Bosnia and Serbia misadventures, but no one calls Grenada a war.


27 posted on 12/29/2004 5:43:53 AM PST by Rockingham
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To: Rockingham
Dear Rock: I agree with your analysis except the following statement: "Remember, since McGovern in 1972, Democrats do not do wars..." However, Democrats do do wars--if they have nothing to do with U.S. interests and only at the behest of the UN and certain EU nations, such as France. Kosovo was all about France and Germany not wanting a million ethnic Albanian refuges swelling their welfare rolls for the next 50 years. Clinton was only to glad to oblige them.
28 posted on 12/30/2004 10:17:22 AM PST by attiladhun2
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To: attiladhun2
Kosovo -- with no Americans in ground combat and no KIAs at all by us -- does not merit being called a war. But your essential point is correct: for the Democratic party and liberals, war is now about social work and politics, not the protection and advancement of our national interests.

The Democrats do not do real wars -- except to blunder us into them -- and are so feckless in military matters as to be a menace to our survival. Clinton's lack of effective response in Somalia, Saddam's provocations, and the WTC, Cole, and embassy bombings convinced bin Laden that "America was a weak horse" and could be struck with impunity. And so some three thousand Americans died on 9/11 and we found ourselves in the current war.
29 posted on 12/30/2004 1:18:08 PM PST by Rockingham
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To: Rocky Mountain High
Most career bureaucrats are dyed-in-the-wool Dementocrats. You are certainly right in pointing out that they will dive into the filthiest cesspool in order to keep the name of Clinton from being further sullied. They will also do any thing to embarass or thwart the current administration. Dementocrats are some of the best allies OBL could possibly have. When Franco was marching on Madrid, he said he was going to use five columns. Someone present pointed out to the Generalissimo that he had only four columns. "Spies and saboteurs are my fifth column," he replied. The Dementocrat Party as it is presently constituted is an unwitting fifth column for the likes of Al Qaeda.
30 posted on 01/08/2005 10:52:21 AM PST by attiladhun2
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To: attiladhun2

The Dementocrat Party as it is presently constituted is an unwitting fifth column for the likes of Al Qaeda.

Man, you hit that nail on the head!


31 posted on 01/09/2005 7:09:06 AM PST by Rocky Mountain High
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