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Reanimators try to grasp the afterlife mystery
Pravda ^ | today | staff

Posted on 12/28/2004 11:56:55 AM PST by Rodney King

Many researchers believe that human conscience still remains alive even after death

Ljubomir Cerbic from Serbia remained neither alive nor dead within two days after he had suffered a serious heart attack. The man died 17 times but each time doctors revived him; this is an unprecedented medical case. "Each time I was standing in front of the Apostle Peter's Gates doctors raised me from the dead," Cerbic said after he regained consciousness.

Pensioner Alexey Yefremov from Russia's Novosibirsk had several skin grafting operations after severe burns. The man's heart stopped during one of the operations. Doctors managed to raise him from the dead just in 35 minutes, which is atypical because usually clinical death lasts for 3-6 minutes, and then human brain suffers irreversible changes. But Alexey Yefremov is of sound mind after the clinical death.

Clinical death is a marginal condition when doctors register no heart activity, breathing; functions of the nervous system fade, but metathetical processes still go on. This condition lasts just for several minutes and then biological death comes when recovery is impossible.

Doctors admit that clinical death is still a mystery for them. Experts stick to various opinions as concerning experience that people have during clinical death. After-death experience that people often have during clinical death gives rise to the most heated disputes. The phenomenon first came to light in 1976 when Doctor Raymond Moody published his "Life After Life" with evidence of about 150 people who experienced death or near-death themselves or knew of such experience from those people who were already dead.

Some people who happily rose from the dead told they saw some bright light during clinical death and met relatives and friends who were already dead by that moment. Others said they remembered episodes of the Judgment of God. Some patients said they left their bodies but stayed nearby, or traveled somewhere and got to some other reality. Moody's book caused serious confusion among average men as well as among scientists. Does it mean that afterlife actually exists and death is just a transition to a better life? Moody was not the only researcher who conducted similar investigations; other researchers also came to the conclusion that there was no death at all.

Soviet reanimator Academician Negovsky explained the afterlife experience in his book "Clinical Death As Seen by Reanimator:" "Unfortunately, researchers in foreign countries (especially in the USA) are often inclined to interpret such phenomena as proof of existence of the other world. At that, researchers are guided by stories told by patients who experienced the near-death condition. They treat stories told by different patients (these stories are often identical) as the argument. However, this is a really poor argument, as the pathological product of dying or reviving brain is of the same type with people in different countries. The evolution maturity of brain is practically the same everywhere. The brain structure is standard which means that the patterns of brain"s death or reviving are typical as well." Besides, the academician said he never heard his patients tell stories about their near-death experience before they rose from the dead. Negovsky said that hallucination could occur during near-death condition, but no clinical death is registered at this moment. The academician added that people could not perceive the outer world during clinical death because the cerebral cortex is inactive at that. "We may suppose that brain revives after clinical death and goes through the basic stages that it had experienced while dying; that is why people may have some experience typical of agony." The Soviet academician also explained the phenomenon of "light at the end of the tunnel": he said it is "tube" vision that arises as a result of hypoxia in the occipital lobe cortex.

Russian reanimator Nikolay Gubin believes that the tunnel phenomenon is the result of toxic psychosis; and American doctor E.Rowdin supports this opinion. Patients say that they see episodes from various periods of their lives when they die. Doctors suppose that probably dying begins with newer structures of the brain and ends with the older ones. However, reviving of the brain is a reverse process where older parts in the cerebral cortex revive first. That is why episodes from earlier periods of life come back before others during reviving.

Two years ago, Swiss researchers claimed they found out how people leave their physical bodies during clinical death. They say one convolution in the right part of the brain is responsible for this sensation. They said the convolution collects information from different parts of the brain to form an idea of where the human body is at some particular moment. At that, signals of some nerves mat follow a wrong trajectory; as a result the brain forms a wrong picture when people see themselves as from outside.

But some phenomena of the afterlife experience are still a mystery even now. Doctors cannot explain how blind people could saw what was going on in the operating-room at the moment they were dying. In fact, a research conducted by American Doctor Kenneth Ring proves the phenomenon was registered with 200 blind men and women.

However, there are some scientists who explain afterlife not with physiological processes going on in the human brain. Psychologist Watson thinks that people recollect their birth while dying. He says that people see death for the first time in delivery when we come to this world. It is also supposed that such visions are connected with molecular and atomic changes in the energetic cover of the body. This structure also dies when a man dies; at that it produces corpuscular radiation which people treat as strange visions.

Researches of unusual conditions during clinical death are still popular. Today, many researchers believe that human conscience still remains alive even after death. Leading doctor from the Southampton hospital Sam Parnia claims there is no doubt that some people still can reflect and recollect when their brain no longer functions. The doctor and his colleagues insist that the conscience, or the soul, of a patient still think and meditate even when the heart and the brain do not function and the patient does not breathe. Academician with the Russian Academy of Sciences Natalya Bekhtereva also believes that life still continues in some form after death.

Today, there is no serious prove or refutation to the after-life theory, as nobody has ever returned from "the land of death" (clinical death is not ultimate death). It should be mentioned that not all patients who rose from the dead remember their experience. There are people who saw neither tunnels, nor light or dead relatives. They saw nothing and did not leave the body during clinical death. But many people state they now after clinical death have different views on life. They appreciate life and feel they are no longer afraid of death. One patient said he treats life as a precious gift and benefits from every moment of it.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Front Page News; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: afterlife; artbell; pravda; reanimator
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1 posted on 12/28/2004 11:56:56 AM PST by Rodney King
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To: Rodney King

2 posted on 12/28/2004 11:58:21 AM PST by Rodney King (No, we can't all just get along.)
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To: Rodney King

Maybe the people that really die, don't come back.


3 posted on 12/28/2004 12:05:03 PM PST by stuartcr
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To: Rodney King
Many researchers believe that human conscience still remains alive even after death

WITNESS: AL GORE......JOHN kERRY.....GODZILLARY!!!!!

4 posted on 12/28/2004 12:05:20 PM PST by Red Badger ( And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you FReep......)
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To: sneakers

bump


5 posted on 12/28/2004 12:06:32 PM PST by sneakers
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To: Rodney King

NDE ping


6 posted on 12/28/2004 12:10:41 PM PST by silverleaf (Fasten your seat belts- it's going to be a BUMPY ride.)
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To: Rodney King


"And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment"

Hebrews 9:27



(hmmm...now what should I believe, Pravda or the Word of God?)


7 posted on 12/28/2004 12:10:53 PM PST by PetroniusMaximus
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To: Rodney King

probably the most foul horror movie of all time - LOL


8 posted on 12/28/2004 12:14:19 PM PST by Revelation 911
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To: Rodney King
Mmmmmm. Barbara Crampton. Mmmmm.

(steely)

9 posted on 12/28/2004 12:14:59 PM PST by Steely Tom (Fortunately, fhe Bill of Rights doesn't include the word 'is'.)
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To: PetroniusMaximus
hmmm...now what should I believe, Pravda or the Word of God?)

Even in the Word of God, Heb. 9:27 is an accurate, yet still, general statement. It does not apply 100% to every man.

Elsewise, you would need to ask, now what should I believe, Hebrews or John (re: Lazarus in John 11).

10 posted on 12/28/2004 12:15:35 PM PST by Colofornian
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To: Rodney King

If I made it to St. Peter's gate 17 times and was revived 17 times, well, when I woke up I'd be pissed.


11 posted on 12/28/2004 12:17:07 PM PST by Petronski (Don't ask me about my pneumonia...it's making me very cranky.)
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To: Rodney King

My father-in-law told me about an acquaintance of his that died last week. The old guy lived out in the boonies and was working on his oil stove when the thing blew up and caught him on fire. He ran out into the road and a passing trucker stopped to put him out. He was rushed to the nearest burn center, about 300 miles away.

The old guy had pretty severe burns and died at the hospital. The staff pronounced him dead, toe-tied him and about an hour later he rose up out of the bed, gasped a big gulp of air and screamed in pain. The nurses and doctors rushed to his aid, but he died shortly after.

Or so they thought....

A short time after his "second" death, he did the same thing--rose up out of bed, gasped air and screamed in pain. Again, the doctors couldn't keep him alive and he died--for the third time.

I asked my father-in-law what the hospital considered his time of death, and he said, as far as he knew, that they were still trying to figure that one out--they'd never seen anything like it before.


12 posted on 12/28/2004 12:18:02 PM PST by randog (What the....?!)
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To: Rodney King

A cinematic classic - the greatness of Jeffrey Combs will not be denied!


13 posted on 12/28/2004 12:18:41 PM PST by GodBlessRonaldReagan (Count Petofi will not be denied!)
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To: Rodney King

All I remember about that film was the guy who was just a head in the pan wanted to be, uh, positioned on the naked chick so he could...



Nevermind, it's too bizarre.


14 posted on 12/28/2004 12:18:52 PM PST by Petronski (Don't ask me about my pneumonia...it's making me very cranky.)
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To: Rodney King

Very interesting post. I often wonder if death means death until resurrection or if we continue life in a spiritual world. Some recent funeral eulogies offered that the deceased is (was) more alive than ever with those that had gone before them. Then others projected eternal rest until resurrection. Although confused I remain hopeful of a spiritual existence of some sort after we depart our human forms.

mc


15 posted on 12/28/2004 12:19:30 PM PST by mcshot (Boldly going nowhere fast.)
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To: GodBlessRonaldReagan

Laugh-out-loud great.


16 posted on 12/28/2004 12:19:41 PM PST by Petronski (Don't ask me about my pneumonia...it's making me very cranky.)
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To: Rodney King
" ... The man [ Ljubomir Cerbic ] died 17 times but each time doctors revived him; this is an unprecedented medical case. "Each time I was standing in front of the Apostle Peter's Gates doctors raised me from the dead," Cerbic said after he regained consciousness."

This guy needs an agent, a passport, a visa, and an airline ticket to the United States.

Sets up a Ljubomir Cerbic Consulting Clinic, and he will be a millionaire in a few weeks.




Hello, I'm Ljubomir and I can guide you out of this world.

17 posted on 12/28/2004 12:20:57 PM PST by G.Mason ("It's easy to curb the freedoms of others when you see no immediate impact on your own." M. Forbes)
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To: Colofornian

***Elsewise, you would need to ask, now what should I believe, Hebrews or John***

Good point. I was really more addressing the idea in the article that the "afterlife" is the last, fleeting electrical impulese of a dying brain. Also statements like, "...as nobody has ever returned from "the land of death"

Pravda is still atheist propaganda.


18 posted on 12/28/2004 12:29:12 PM PST by PetroniusMaximus
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To: Rodney King

Been there and done that twice (NDEs). No one can tell me I didn't see what I saw nor can I explain why both times I never quite got to the end of the tunnel and the bright light I saw there. Was it my brain shutting down? I think not since I was out like a light with head injuries at the time. I awoke with a vivid memory of the event both times. Have any Freepers had similar experiences?


19 posted on 12/28/2004 12:34:18 PM PST by Paulus Invictus
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To: Paulus Invictus

Tell us more, what did you see? What were your injuries?


20 posted on 12/28/2004 12:37:49 PM PST by Rodney King (No, we can't all just get along.)
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To: Rodney King

I can't even remember where I've been while under general anesthesia, never mind dead.


21 posted on 12/28/2004 12:39:41 PM PST by Graymatter (Be all that you can be......Eat chocolate.)
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To: Petronski

Second only to Bruce Campbell in my book! :)


22 posted on 12/28/2004 12:51:13 PM PST by GodBlessRonaldReagan (Count Petofi will not be denied!)
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To: Colofornian
Good point, but Jesus raised people from the dead before his death and resurrection. The writer of Hebrews was speaking after Christ's return to sit at the Father's right hand. I realize it's an old argument, but it's the only one I've come across that reconciles the apparent inconsistency.
23 posted on 12/28/2004 12:54:58 PM PST by jwpjr
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To: Paulus Invictus

I had a strange experience when my father died. He died on Easter Sunday between 5:30 and 6 am in Dallas TX, 2000 AD.

I was asleep and awoke from a dream around 6:43 am near DC. I had dreamed that my father had come to me to thank me for telling him about God and Christ and that he had to go. The dream bothered me and I laid down and tried to go back to sleep, finally doing so.

I got a call around 7:30 from my uncle about my father's death. When he told me when my father died, I had a chill down my spine like never before.

Was it all just a coincidence? I know many will say so, even if the odds were astronomical. I feel he visited me, but who can know? Started reading up on NDEs after that and didnt find anything like what I had experienced. Oh well.


24 posted on 12/28/2004 1:07:25 PM PST by JFK_Lib
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Comment #25 Removed by Moderator

To: Rodney King

bump


26 posted on 12/28/2004 1:18:28 PM PST by Ken H
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To: randog

"A short time after his "second" death, he did the same thing--rose up out of bed, gasped air and screamed in pain. Again, the doctors couldn't keep him alive and he died--for the third time."

His toe-tag was on too tight.

;)


27 posted on 12/28/2004 1:25:49 PM PST by adam_az (UN out of the US! - http://www.moveamericaforward.org/?Page=Petition)
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To: Petronski
If I made it to St. Peter's gate 17 times and was revived 17 times, well, when I woke up I'd be pissed.

Unless Saint Peter was directing you to the down escalator. Notice he only got as far as the gate - never through it.
28 posted on 12/28/2004 1:26:19 PM PST by R. Scott (A Very Merry Christmas to all.)
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To: JFK_Lib
It must be absolutely fantastic to know that your help in leading him to Christ was important enough to him to make him seek you out to thank you for it.
29 posted on 12/28/2004 1:30:46 PM PST by zeugma (Come to the Dark Side...... We have cookies!)
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To: Rodney King
but metathetical processes still go on.

What exactly are these processes ???

Some people who happily rose from the dead told they saw some bright light during clinical death and met relatives and friends who were already dead by that moment. Others said they remembered episodes of the Judgment of God. Some patients said they left their bodies but stayed nearby, or traveled somewhere and got to some other reality. Moody's book caused serious confusion among average men as well as among scientists. Does it mean that afterlife actually exists and death is just a transition to a better life? Moody was not the only researcher who conducted similar investigations; other researchers also came to the conclusion that there was no death at all.

Did any of them see Hell ? Equiring minds and such

30 posted on 12/28/2004 1:38:55 PM PST by Centurion2000 (Truth, Justice and the Texan Way)
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To: Rodney King

Pravda and the Russian Communist Party refuse to die despite several attempts to kill them off. I don't see anything spectacular in a particular Russian being unable to die.


31 posted on 12/28/2004 1:41:42 PM PST by PeterFinn (Liberals are a greater threat to the USA than are Islamofascists.)
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To: PeterFinn
Pravda and the Russian Communist Party refuse to die despite several attempts to kill them off. I don't see anything spectacular in a particular Russian being unable to die.

They are just following in Rasputin's footsteps.

32 posted on 12/28/2004 1:42:31 PM PST by Centurion2000 (Truth, Justice and the Texan Way)
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To: Rodney King
From a website about famous last words:

I like the story about Professor Samuel Upham, a man of great learning, wit and faith - for many years a teacher at Drew Theological Seminary.

  He was very ill, and when near the end, family and friends gathered at his bedside.   Sombody said that Dr. Upham was already dead.   Another answered: "Feel his feet.   No one ever died with warm feet."

Then, Dr. Upham opened one eye and said, "What about Joan of Arc?"

33 posted on 12/28/2004 1:42:50 PM PST by Ken H
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To: Centurion2000
Did any of them see Hell ? Equiring minds and such

It appears that this guy did.

34 posted on 12/28/2004 1:44:55 PM PST by Dementon (Life's tough. Get a helmet.)
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To: PeterFinn

Death for a Christian is no big deal. It's scary to contemplate because we all have a survival instinct, and it's terrible for those we leave behind. But actual death for those who have accepted and embraced Christ's sacrifice is like stepping into another room. How do I know? Because the Bible says to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord.

Cool.


35 posted on 12/28/2004 1:47:40 PM PST by freepertoo
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To: zeugma

"It must be absolutely fantastic to know that your help in leading him to Christ was important enough to him to make him seek you out to thank you for it."

It was a dream.

That I dreamed of him at the moment he died maybe of significance, but I doubt that I did any more than imagine what he said. I have never read of similar events, but I wonder if any NDEs have involved people dreaming of people during the second persons NDE.


As to the comfortable feeling, well, the Holy Ghost guides and acts on the human heart. I simplyh added my voice to that of two of his brothers and an ex-wife for him to establish a relationship with God. I had a minor role if anything of any real significance.

I do, however, take comfort in the fact that he did finally respond to God, yes.


36 posted on 12/28/2004 1:52:31 PM PST by JFK_Lib
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To: mcshot
Very interesting post. I often wonder if death means death until resurrection or if we continue life in a spiritual world. Some recent funeral eulogies offered that the deceased is (was) more alive than ever with those that had gone before them. Then others projected eternal rest until resurrection.

If you have no sense of time it shouldn't matter. A million years would be the same as an instant.

37 posted on 12/28/2004 1:56:13 PM PST by Moonman62 (Federal Creed: If it moves tax it. If it keeps moving regulate it. If it stops moving subsidize it.)
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To: JFK_Lib

CS Lewis reported that JRR Tolkien, his close friend and brother Christian, visited him in spirit immediately after dying to reassure Lewis that dying was not scary.


38 posted on 12/28/2004 2:04:17 PM PST by Hebrews 11:6 (Look it up!)
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To: Rodney King

I must say, Dr. Hill, I'm VERY disappointed in you. You steal the secret of life and death, and here you are trysting with a bubble-headed coed. You're not even a second-rate scientist!


39 posted on 12/28/2004 2:05:45 PM PST by Xenalyte (Who you tryin' to get crazy with, ese? Don't you know I'm loco?)
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To: Hebrews 11:6

That is intriguing.

Do you have any references or URLs?


40 posted on 12/28/2004 2:10:17 PM PST by JFK_Lib
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To: Hebrews 11:6

Tolkien died in 1973 while CS Lewis died in 1963, so I am not sure what you are thinking of.

I did find this:

http://home.apu.edu/~CTRF/articles/2001_articles/wiebe.html

For example, Sir Alister Hardy reported (1975: 220) that C. S. Lewis appeared twice after his death to J. B. Phillips, well known translator of the New Testament.


41 posted on 12/28/2004 2:47:22 PM PST by JFK_Lib
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To: JFK_Lib

Over the years, I have read lots of stories of people who had experiences of seeing people in dreams or even talking to them to find out that they had died around the same time...This even happened to the son of a friend of mine when his mother died.


42 posted on 12/28/2004 2:53:48 PM PST by Knitting A Conundrum (Act Justly, Love Mercy, and Walk Humbly With God Micah 6:8)
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To: Rodney King

Have a care....


43 posted on 12/28/2004 2:57:47 PM PST by onedoug
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To: JFK_Lib
I had a similar experience when my Brother died. I was asleep and dreaming about walking with him down a street lined with small houses with white picket fences. Standing in the yard of each house was a family member who had already passed away. Unfortunately my wife awoke me at that moment. I noticed the clock as soon as I opened my eyes, so I knew the exact time. A couple of hours later I received word that his plane had crashed during a training exercise. The time of the crash and the dream were identical.

A couple of months later he managed to send us an unmistakable message. No one in the family has been afraid of death since that time.

44 posted on 12/28/2004 3:07:59 PM PST by LPM1888 (What are the facts? Again and again and again -- what are the facts? - Lazarus Long)
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To: LPM1888

Can you tell us about the unmistakable message?


45 posted on 12/28/2004 3:10:42 PM PST by Nea Wood (I considered atheism but there weren't enough holidays.)
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To: Flightdeck

fyi


46 posted on 12/28/2004 3:15:26 PM PST by Ken H
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To: JFK_Lib
Do you have any references?

Why, yes, I do: Clive Staples Lewis, by William Griffin: Harper & Row, First Edition, 1986. page 448.

Turns out that by trying to recall it from reading it 17 years ago I had everything wrong except the main point: Lewis was the deceased, not Tolkien, and the one he visited was J.B. Phillips. Apparently it's time to reread it!

"...Chang...heard on the 1:00 p.m. BBC news that Lewis had died. In Swange, Dorset, Phillips was watching television when he saw Lewis sitting in a chair a few feet away, ruddy and grinning and glowing with health. He had seen Lewis only once before; he knew what he was seeing now. He didn't look up to the ceiling, as the bishop of Woolwich thought people did, to see if Lewis had come down through a hole. 'It's not as hard as you think, you know,' said Lewis; Phillips knew what he meant."

Incidentally, though this has nothing to do with your personal situation, but rather is simply worth noting in passing: Lewis died on 11/22/63, the day JFK was assassinated. Thus, the death of Christianity's most popular author was completely overshadowed by the most sensational single death of the 20th Century. I think I see Satan's hand there....

47 posted on 12/28/2004 3:34:32 PM PST by Hebrews 11:6 (Look it up!)
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To: Dementon
It appears that this guy did.

They did a show about Hell on the History channel last night with that same man.It didn't go into the part of him being a mean bastard before his out of body experience,but did talk about what happened to him..

48 posted on 12/28/2004 3:38:30 PM PST by Uncle Meat
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To: R. Scott

Technicalities, technicalities.



;O)


49 posted on 12/28/2004 4:13:04 PM PST by Petronski (Don't ask me about my pneumonia...it's making me very cranky.)
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To: jwpjr

My understanding was that in the Greek Language, "Once" may actually be interpreted as an ordinal.
equivalent to our "first". Using that as first instead of once, "after that" makes for a different sense then.

It may be that it is an assertion that God's judgement is guaranteed AFTER death... and not before.

Order of the appointments, death then judgement, not quantities of either.
Furthermore it may be saying that we all have an appointment with death prior to judgement. Then we have a problem with the NON death of Enoch... who did not die perse, but God just 'took him'.


50 posted on 12/28/2004 4:25:20 PM PST by Robert_Paulson2 ("allahu akhbar..." the call to murder?)
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