Apple to drop sub-$500 Mac bomb at Expo

ThinkSecret.com ^ | December 28, 2004 | "Nick dePlume"

[ReignOfError]

Thanks for commenting on the obvious. I thought I was alone in wondering who in the world would want a computer without a monitor. It's kind of like buying a television without a screen -- although you can always buy it seperately.

Actually, it's more like buying a stereo without speakers. Not a problem if you like the ones you have.

[general_re]

Megahertz ratings are not the be-all and end-all of performance measures, obviously - they're not even a very good one, really - but all the benchmarks I've ever seen show a single P4 substantially faster than a dual G4 for the vast majority of computing tasks. The link you gave doesn't lead to the actual results of this head-to-head comparison, so I still don't see any reason to believe otherwise.

With Altivec, the G4 is capable of some surprising results for certain tasks, but most Mac software still isn't optimized for Altivec, and there is a whole huge class of computing problems that simply aren't vectorizable, making Altivec optimizations impossible. I don't think it's an accident that Moto/IBM/Apple never submitted official SPEC results for the G4 - unofficial results I've seen suggest that it would have been somewhat embarrassing. The G5, on the other hand, is a quite capable chip, and depending on what your needs are, a dual G5 may be a fine replacement for a single P4.

[HAL9000]

What all did you have in mind?

Let's benchmark your Windows PC against my Mac. As the challenged party, you are customarily entitled to propose the test - but I would suggest the usual suite of computationally-intensive benchmarks. We'll run the tests, compare normalized results, and determine the performance ratio per CPU cycle.

I have a PowerMac with dual 2.0 Ghz IBM G5 processors running Mac OS X 10.3.7. I'm interested to see how it compares against your machine.

I'll be compiling a BSD kernel while you decide.

[general_re]

I have a PowerMac with dual 2.0 Ghz IBM G5 processors running Mac OS X 10.3.7. I'm interested to see how it compares against your machine.

Won't tell us very much about the G4, will it?

[LibertarianInExile]

Holy CRAP! My next computer might be a MAC!

I haven't ever bought a Mac, because they're just too expensive--but they work SOOOO much better than clones...I'm all on that if this rumor is true!

[steveo]

yawn

[HAL9000]

Won't tell us very much about the G4, will it?

I have a 700 MHz eMac G4 sitting next to the G5. I have a G3 iBook in the kitchen. Although I'm spoiled by the G5, I still use those other computers daily.

My home is filled with computers, including an antique 1978 Apple II. It still works, but we can skip the benchmark tests for it.

[Criminal Number 18F]

I didn't -- isn't this what the guy asks?

Don't touch it... don't even point at it!

d.o.l.

Criminal Number 18F

[MarkL]

1.25 Ghz G4? My 4 year old Athlon XP would destroy that.

Actually, it probably wouldn't. The G4 is a PowerPC RISC processor, and if you just compare the processor clock speeds, it's even more whacky than if you try to compare the (true) clock speed of an AMD processor to that of a P-4.

Depending on the task, the G-4 can do similar tasks at 1.5 - 3 times the speed of an Intel processor.

You'd really be shocked to see the graphics performance of a 700MHz iBook!

Mark

[general_re]

If you'll cast your eyes back a bit, you'll notice that I objected to the claim that, clock-for-clock, the G4 was twice as fast as a P4. Am I to understand you wish to examine some other proposition instead?

Wise move.

[MarkL]

Anyway, I was wrong, the Dell apparently does ship with an el-cheapo monitor. OTOH, to get the Dell up to the likely feature set of the Mac would probably cost as much as that monitor. Updgrading XP Home Edition to something a bit closer to the Mac OS's abilities (XP Pro) would almost buy you a new monitor in itself.

Something else to read carefully is the statement of warranty. On the really low priced Dells, if you look carefully, you'll see a 1 year tech support warranty (for telephone support only), and you get a 90 day warranty on the hardware. You can upgrade the warranty, but it will cost extra. This is only on the Dimension line.

Mark

[af_vet_1981]

A $499 Mac. Apple will sell tons of these things. Bushels.

Pecks

[general_re]

That's new. Anyway, "upgrading" to a one year warranty is $17, which probably won't break the bank for people concerned about such things.

[MarkL]

That's new. Anyway, "upgrading" to a one year warranty is $17, which probably won't break the bank for people concerned about such things.

I didn't read too much of the small print. I don't deal with Dimensions. I work on the Optiplex and server systems.

They're pretty good systems. I'm still in love with the Compaq (now HP) Proliant servers. I'm SO glad that HP discontinued their NetServer line.

Mark

[general_re]

Same here - we have what amounts to an open order for Optiplex GX workstations where I work. Almost 10,000 of them, last I recall.

[MarkL]

Same here - we have what amounts to an open order for Optiplex GX workstations where I work. Almost 10,000 of them, last I recall.

I'm on the other end. The dealer I work for sells them. I do warranty service on them.

They're good machines, for the most part. Dell's really eaten the lunch of both HP and Compaq on the workstation side, although IBM is starting to come back a bit. Nearly every client of ours has switched from HP or Compaq workstations to Optiplex. Still, Proliants really do rule the server rooms. I love those machines, although the management capabilites have dropped off a bit since HP took over (I liked being able to get the serial numbers off of the hard drives from the diagnostic "Survey" output!)

Mark

[ambrose]

You overpaid. I just got the same system for $399 at CompUSA.

[ambrose]

Model 100609 Minitower
Intel Pentium 4 Processor, 2.5GHz, 512MB RAM, 160GB Hard Drive, 2X DVD-RW and 52X CD-Rom Drives, Windows XP Home Edition

Manufacturer: Systemax


Mfg Part #: 100609


Product Number: 307570


Original Price:
$899.97 (44% Off)†


$499.98

http://www.compusa.com/products/product_info.asp?product_code=307570&pfp=BROWSE

[ambrose]

Here's the system I just bought last week, for $399 (the price was apparently an ad discount to get foot traffic... the price is now $549).

http://www.compusa.com/products/product_info.asp?product_code=316197&pfp=SEARCH

The Powerhouse.

Stimulate your senses with the PC that offers pure multimedia pleasure. The T3062 was born to perform and is packed with features that’s sure to please the most discriminating PC user and gamer: a super-charged AMD Athlon™ XP 3000+ processor, Microsoft® Windows® XP Home, 160 GB hard drive, 512 MB memory, built-in Ethernet, DVD+/-RW drive, 8-in-1 digital media manager, amplified speakers – all backed by eMachines’ world-class support. Plus with the NVIDIA® GeForce4™ MX Graphics chip and nForce™ 6-channel audio, your gaming and movie-watching experience will be taken to a whole new level. eMachines has created a revolutionary PC that has it all: power, reliability and style. And it’s sensibly priced, too. So hold on to your mouse…and let the gaming begin.

[hchutch]

I bought my T2865 in November of 2003.