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NYT: Camden's Streets Go From Mean to America's Most Dangerous City, Liberalism's Showcase
New York Times ^ | December 29, 2004 | JEFFREY GETTLEMAN

Posted on 12/29/2004 5:48:19 AM PST by OESY

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To: TonyRo76
I live within 20 miles of Camden, attended law school there, and worked in the federal courthouse. Go there now occasionally on business. My daughter was born in Cooper Hospital (Camden) and my wife goes there for treatments. The good thing about Camden is it is small or it would be ruining the surrounding suburbs.

It's a terribly poor place BUT some of the worst descriptions here are overblown. I have never been attacked in Camden beyond a street person panhandling. The NJ Aquarium, RCA renovations (to apartments), Battleship NJ, Marina, etc are all improvements and basically succesful. But I don't think they reach many of the citizens with jobs.

I grew up in a Newark suburb and I would still rather be stranded in Camden than Newark. It's sad because Camden is right on the river across from all the more valuable Philly real estate.

I also blame liberal democrats for just about everything, including Camden. But because republicans don't live in these cities, it means no one really wants to clean them up.

41 posted on 12/29/2004 7:38:06 AM PST by Williams
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To: pgkdan
was born in Our Lady of Lourdes hospital, went to St anthony of Padua School and lived in the Cramer Hill section of the city in the 60's. It was urban, but Cramer Hill was still a community back then. I was there 2 years ago and felt as if I'd entered some weird parallel universe where everything was ugly and bombed out. Our old house was still lived in but about 6 of the other 9 houses in the row were collapsed. The block literally looked bombed out.

I was born in Cooper Hospital, but a few years ago I spent a lot of time at Lourdes when a family member was ill. The Camden hospitals still offer the best care for the seriously ill outside of Philadelphia.

Camden is so depressing that I have a great deal of sympathy for anyone who has the misfortune of living or working there.

42 posted on 12/29/2004 7:40:36 AM PST by independentmind
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To: OESY

When I was stationed at Philadelphia, people were advised to NOT go to Camden under any circumstances.


There was a joke too:

"How do you get through Camden?"

"Running or speeding"


WEll, that's what you get for keeping the democRATS in office!


43 posted on 12/29/2004 7:41:16 AM PST by fastattacksailor (The US without the UN is like not having your mother-in-law with you on your honeymoon)
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To: Modernman
Once you understand that, you understand New Jersey

Yep.

44 posted on 12/29/2004 7:41:38 AM PST by independentmind
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To: Williams

I was exercising a horse at the old Garden State racetrack when the horse died of a heart attack. I was hurt and they took me to Cooper---great docs!


45 posted on 12/29/2004 7:42:41 AM PST by fastattacksailor (The US without the UN is like not having your mother-in-law with you on your honeymoon)
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To: independentmind

The Detroit Difference is that is a couple of hundred square miles. There are single abandoned factories (abandoned in the 1940s!) that are as big as Camden. Many are also very toxic superfund type sites. The Detroit train station is as large as Grand Central Station and is abandoned. I believe Tiger Stadium is now abandoned. (There is a flashy new one in the section of the city that has been revitalized).


46 posted on 12/29/2004 7:43:19 AM PST by Jack Black
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To: Sam the Sham
And since Camden is just across the Delaware from another city with similar but not as bad problems, what does it offer that isn't in Philadelphia ?
Aside from Campbell's Soup, Camden's biggest employers are the prison and various heroin detox centers.  There are NO nice neighborhoods in Camden proper, there's no employment, and nothing of an enhancing cultural value.  Camden is, essentially the worst neighborhoods in Philadelphia all dug up and dumped in New Jersey.
Owl_Eagle

"You know, I'm going to start thanking
the woman who cleans the restroom in
the building I work in.  I'm going to start
thinking of her as a human being"

-Hillary Clinton
(Yes, she really said that
Peggy Noonan
The Case Against Hillary Clinton, pg 55)

47 posted on 12/29/2004 7:44:45 AM PST by End Times Sentinel (Merry Christmas, Happy Hannuka, Funky Kwanza, and a Violent Eid!)
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To: Jack Black
ruins of Detroit
48 posted on 12/29/2004 7:44:47 AM PST by Jack Black
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To: Tribune7
If this article mentions that Camden has long been run by Dems, I missed it.

No surprise there ...

Philly is also becoming much like Camden

And Geee .. who runs that city too ... DEMS!

49 posted on 12/29/2004 7:49:49 AM PST by Mo1 (Should be called Oil for Fraud and not Oil for Food)
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To: coloradan
Nobody says legalizing drugs would create a utopia. It would, however, stop the war and the killing ... if that would be something you'd possibly want to do.

Huh????

legalizing drugs would make Camden even more of a hellhole

50 posted on 12/29/2004 7:52:25 AM PST by Mo1 (Should be called Oil for Fraud and not Oil for Food)
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To: jpl

Precisely. Deindustrialization means dense concentrations of poor people left behind, a fact free traders completely ignore. Stable, unskilled factory jobs are the first rung on the ladder out of the ghetto.


51 posted on 12/29/2004 7:54:07 AM PST by Sam the Sham
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To: Mo1
legalizing drugs would make Camden even more of a hellhole

No, it would take the wind out of the sails of the gang. Gangs couldn't make money selling drugs, and therefore, wouldn't be killing each other to take over their business. This has been seen repeatedly in places that have done this.

52 posted on 12/29/2004 8:03:03 AM PST by coloradan (Hence, etc.)
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To: RinaseaofDs
Sure, it'd be easy. The will is not there. It requires taking off the gloves, deciding you are actually going to do it, and not giving a damn what names you are called or what happens to the precious yutes peddling their crack.

First step, issue a 12 gauge and 20 shells to every man and woman over 40 and make them all deputies.

Second step, break every drug dealer's every toy and shoot any who resist, carting everyone known off to the slammer.

After that it gets easy...

53 posted on 12/29/2004 8:07:12 AM PST by JasonC
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To: jpl

"Sadly, this sort of thing is a major side effect of what happens when manufacturing flees a country, which the powers that be would prefer that everyone ignores.

"Not everyone in America is equipped to work a technical job, and you can only have so many McDonald's on so many street corners."

Both sentences start off with a true statement and end with a false conclusion. Not ALL the powers that be would prefer to ignor it. Some would make the right changes, but liberal judges and organizations like ACLU would thwart them at ever corner.

AFA McDonalds is concerned, so what? I don't care how poor I was I would leave a place like in a minute. I bet 98% of people living there could leave if they chose to. I would walk or even crawl to get out. I would find a job at a McDonalds in another, safer town. I've done a lot worse. This is America. There is NO reason short of total physical or mental impairment that prevents people from leaving a crap hole like that and finding something better.

Good grief, people in Central America do it every day -- by the thousands.




54 posted on 12/29/2004 8:08:43 AM PST by Lee'sGhost (Crom!)
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To: coloradan
They'd be killing each other to take over something else. Protection rackets, welfare mother paychecks, anything you please. They will beat the defenseless for a living because it is the only livelihood they know, and they will think it manly and honorable too.

There is justice only where just men rule.

55 posted on 12/29/2004 8:09:31 AM PST by JasonC
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To: Modernman

Big construction is no cure for a city like Camden. Government-run, top-down fixes are much more likely to fail than succeed.

Cities are organic things. They create their own reason for being, prosper and grow. Sometimes they die.

Take the $2 Billion, give $30,000 to every man woman and child with the stipulation that they must move at least 200 miles away. Raze the rubble. Plant grass.


56 posted on 12/29/2004 8:09:36 AM PST by gridlock (ELIMINATE PERVERSE INCENTIVES)
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To: XRdsRev

After you plant grass, mark the old privies so XRdsRev can dig up bottles...


57 posted on 12/29/2004 8:13:02 AM PST by gridlock (ELIMINATE PERVERSE INCENTIVES)
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To: Lee'sGhost
It has nothing to do with the existence of jobs, there are over a million jobs in greater Philly. It has everything to do with crime - nobody with the freedom and means to move will remain in a cesspool like this to be lorded over by these little self appointed tyrants. There are jobs wherever there is justice, and there is no justice here. There isn't any justice because just men don't bother to rule the place. They don't bother to rule the place because they might be called names for doing so, which means pansies need not apply. And the rest just don't give a damn.
58 posted on 12/29/2004 8:13:03 AM PST by JasonC
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To: JasonC

It's basically like Lord of the Flies. People who are left to their own devices and resort to self-serving sin and corruption. Put a wall around it and film it like a reality series. Cops on Steroids.

As one cop told me once about the drug problem in his town "One shipment of lethal cocaine and heroin would do wonders for our fair city".


59 posted on 12/29/2004 8:18:56 AM PST by AppyPappy (If You're Not A Part Of The Solution, There's Good Money To Be Made In Prolonging The Problem.)
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To: JasonC

"nobody with the freedom and means to move will remain in a cesspool like this "

That's an interesting statement. If they are not free to leave, why not? Are they being held hostage? Where are the police?

No means? I would leave everything I own to walk, crawl, roll, use a wheel chair, anything to leave a place like that.

Are they simply stupid? Not trying to be trite, but I don't get it. NOTHING other than physically being held against my will would keep me there.

So, does that mean that the people there are only criminals, druggies who don't want help, and idiots?


60 posted on 12/29/2004 8:22:34 AM PST by Lee'sGhost (Crom!)
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