Tsunami Death Toll Tops 80,000 - (Could reach 100,000)

cnn.com ^ | Wednesday, December 29, 2004 | cnn

[crushelits]

Officials just reaching hardest hit areas in Indonesia.

BANDA ACEH, Indonesia (CNN) -- The latest death toll from the Asian tsunami has increased to more than 80,000 as relief workers and supplies begin to reach some of the most devastated areas.

The dramatic rise of the number of deaths came Wednesday as officials were finally able to reach remote regions -- like Indonesia's Aceh province, India's Andaman and Nicobar Islands and the Maldives.

More than half of those deaths were reported in Indonesia, the nearest land mass to Sunday's undersea earthquake that triggered the deadly waves and flooding in about a dozen countries, from Thailand to East Africa.

Four days after the quake, Indonesian authorities said they had found mass destruction in Aceh. The capital of Banda Aceh, which was closest to epicenter of the quake, was described as largely destroyed.

Red Cross: Tsunami Toll Could Top 100,000
GENEVA (AP) - The international Red Cross said Wednesday that the death toll from this week's earthquake and tsunamis in the Indian Ocean could rise to more than 100,000. ``We're facing a disaster of unprecedented proportion in nature,'' said Simon Missiri, Asia Pacific chief at the International Federation of Red Cross and Red Crescent Societies. More »

[backhoe]

Don't click the lower link unless you have a strong stomach. You have been warned.

 Death toll reaches 100,000

 I have started to believe these numbers...
WARNING: GRAPHIC PICTURE/Tourists and Natives

[Heavyrunner]

WTF? Are you insane?

Just because there have been worse death tolls through various wars and holocausts in history doesn't make this a non-issue or us manipulated by the media.

I'm 34 years old and I cannot remember a time where so many have died at once in my lifetime.

This is in the ballpark of Hiroshima as far as death toll is concerned. I don't know what kind of freaking heartless sociopath one has to be to file this away under media manipulation.

[SE Mom]

"Take away the pictures and this is virtually a non-story."

---

Why does this kind of reasoning always pop up? This is not a political massacre..like the ones you cite. This is a natural disaster of fairly astounding proportions.

To you- it may be a non-story.

[maddie]

Oh, My Gosh. What a horrible picture. Pray for these people and their families.

[bitt]

as huge a disaster as this is, the ONE fact to consider is this:

this horrendous loss of life was not brought about by war or malice: it was a natural disaster, not intentional mass murder, like 9/11. Maybe that was what he meant.

Sometimes you just can't see what's coming.

[backhoe]

Oh, My Gosh. What a horrible picture. Pray for these people and their families.

God bless you, maddie-- it's rough stuff to see, but the juxtaposition of that nice hotel and all those jumbled corpses- just reminds you of how frail life is. "In the midst of life, we are in death."

[nhoward14]

100,000+ people die within a matter of minutes and you call it a non-story?

My friend, I am ashamed that you are from Texas.

[Brit_Guy]

"Let's get things in perspective. As tragic as this is for the people involved, we are again being manipulated by the media. Take away the pictures and this is virtually a non-story"

There are possibly 20 times more people dead from this than died on 9-11. Was that a virtual non story? Or do you think the world lost all perspective on that one too? I suspect your trying to be controversial and fishing for a response.

[7.62 x 51mm]

Dear God, all those dead people. Pls watch over their souls. There must be 500-1,000 in that pic alone.

[dfrussell]

I'm 34 years old and I cannot remember a time where so many have died at once in my lifetime.

Each year, 300 to 500 million people develop malaria and 1.5 to 3 million–mostly children–die -- World Health Organization

The tsunami will probably end up killing 150,000 to 200,000 people directly and indirectly from wounds, infections and disease...

(34 * 3,000,000) = 102 million

[backhoe]

It's a ghastly thing to see so many bodies packed up like a logjam- it makes you remember just how fragile life is.

[BobL]

No - nothing devious.

It's just that the media seems to select certain stories that involve human suffering and ignore others. For example, it's well documented that the New York Times had a reporter in the Soviet Union during Stalin's purges, who won a Pulitzer by blatantly reporting that things were going great in the Workers' Paradise. To this day, the New York Times has never renounced that reporter or returned that Pulitzer.

During the genocide in the Sudan over the past decade (up until about a year ago, when black Muslims started being killed by Arab Muslims, in Dufar), the only way to hear about the 2 Million Christians being slaughtered in that country was to watch CBN (Christian Broadcasting Network) News. The media didn't consider that a worthy story.

Both of the above cases were much, much, more important, as they involved humans intentionally killing other humans.

In this case, it was simply a tragic event, but heck, the pictures were great.

It's just a problem that I have with the media - if the pics aren't good, it's a non-story.

The people there do desperately need help and the US is generally a big helper, which is fine by me.

[Born to Conserve]

This disaster is nothing compared to what nature could do, and probably will. There are countless comet and asteroid impacts, caldera eruptions and climate hiccups that we know have happened, and that we know will happen, any one of which would make this earthquake and tidal wave look like a nice day. This disaster is NORMAL behavior for mother nature.

Prepare for something really big. It's gonna happen sooner or later.

[BobL]

Excellent point - thanks.

The vast majority of those Malaria deaths can be prevented by applying DDT. But since the media decided decades ago that DDT was BAD, it can't be used to stop the suffering.

An interesting, but little reported story on the WTC - there is a chance that the WTC could have survived the effects of the fires, had they used asbestos insulation over their steel framing - but the media decided that asbestos was BAD, and drove our government to outlaw it also, just as the bottom floors of the WTC were being built.

My only point - the media has so much blood on its hands that it offends me when they report a story like this - to this extent.

[Jon Alvarez]

Bob:

I don't know you, but you are entitled to your opinion. I find it to be very annoying when people hiding behind internet anonymity lash out at others for sharing their opinion. Just my 2 cents.

I do feel for the victims, as we all surely do...I do have a problem with people already criticizing the USA for "not doing enough", etc. I feel that material aid should be sent, along with liberal tree huggers, to help those in need. I do, however, feel that what aid we send should be proportionate to the aid we have received relative to the War on Terror. Help our allies, let the UN help the rest. One prime example...India. India has refused to send troops b/c the UN did not support the USA.

I do not endorse sending financial aid to certain relief groups as that leaves room for corruption and abuse. See UN Food For Oil, United Way, and 9/11 funds for examples. After all, it is our tax money...and we are carrying the lion's share of the burden and risks in Iraq.

But that's my opinion, for what it's worth...

PS--how many American flags were torched this year in some of these countries?

Indonesia:

http://quickstart.clari.net/qs_se/webnews/wed/ar/Qindonesia-us-bush.RHRw_DOL.html

[7.62 x 51mm]

So true, b.

[TXBSAFH]

By the time the various diseases take their toll, this will surpass both of the Atomic bombs. This is the worst tragedy I can remember.

[two23]

The amount of human grief and suffering is unfathomable. When its all done, there will hardly be a surviving soul in this region who didn't lose someone. So many of them children.
Heart-wrenching....(prayers)

[BobL]

Jon - I apologize if I lashed out at you or any others for any reason. I intended to only out at the Media's continued manipulation of us.

If you see some of my earlier posts on other subjects (Islam at the top of the list), you'll see why I do prefer to keep my identity to myself.

We're at the point now, in much of Western society, that accurate criticism of certain religions can get you killed or beheaded, so the only way to have a decent dialog (for people with my point of view) is to stay anonymous.

As to your points, starting with the second paragraph - I agree totally. We have the right to expect at least civil treatment from the countries that we give money to.

[BobL]

"WTF? Are you insane?"

I hear you. But Cambodia did happen early in your lifetime (late 1970s), and lots more were killed. But reporters weren't allowed to cover it, and thus it was "no big deal" to the mainstream media - even thought they had a huge hand in causing the massacre, by driving us out of neighboring Vietnam.

I would just like to see the MSM apologize for all of the carnage that they caused, or at least allowed to be caused.

It has angered me so much that I cannot even listen to them without feeling that I'm being manipulated.

[BobL]

"To you- it may be a non-story."

To me it's a minor story with great pics - that mostly can be prevented the next time for a relatively cheap investment of a civil defense and alerting system.

Someone else on this thread mentioned an asteroid hit to be a major threat. That one I do take seriously, as it can wipe out all human life on this planet - and it has happened in the past (depending on its size).

In fact it was in the news the past few days. But the media treats it like an Art Bell story - a bunch of kooks that are bored.

If the media were to put this in perspective, they would be demanding two things, rather than laughing at their audience or actively opposing them.

1) Some type of asteroid diversion system (don't ask how).

2) Some way to prevent nuclear missiles from hitting the US (i.e., Star Wars)

As horrible as this tragedy was for the people involved, it would be real nice if the media would spend even 2% of this time on the need for the above 2 items. They concern me a lot more than tidal waves in Indian Ocean.

[P.O.E.]

Plus the many that will never be found - washed out to sea.

[BobL]

For everyone:

The real story about this tragedy is on this thread:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1310131/posts

Again - it comes back to Malaria. Many, many, more people than necessary will die because the media, in essence, outlawed DDT.

But we'll never know that, because the media can do no wrong.

[zoobee]

SOmebody in another thread pointed out that the average amount of people that die everyday is 150,000 world wide.

[StevieB]

I'm 34 years old and I cannot remember a time where so many have died at once in my lifetime.

You are too young to remember the November 1970 disaster in Bangladesh, when an Indian ocean typhoon slammed into the low-lying islands off the cost. No one will ever know the actual death toll from this disaster, but the best estimate is that between 300,000 and 500,000 people died in the storm surge.

Bangladesh was hit again in 1991. This typhoon killed over 130,000.

In this part of the world with major populations clustered around the coasts, abnormal conditions in the Indian Ocean will always be deadly.

[Jon Alvarez]

you did not lash out at me...just commenting over the abuse heaped at you for your opinion...

[Jon Alvarez]

NOT BUSH'S TO GIVE

"The UN's Under-Secretary for Humanitarian Affairs has criticized the USA for only giving $15 million to the effort to help those effected by the quake and tsunami. I have to admit that when I heard on the radio yesterday that Colin Powell had announced that each of the affected countries would immediately receive $100,000, that it was the smallest amount of money I had ever heard mentioned in the same sentence with the words 'United States.' I mean that is less than a loaded Hummer. But then I remembered the old Davy Crockett story where-in Congressman Davy voted against giving aid to the victims of a Washington, DC fire because it wasn't his to give.

"I think this would be a great time for Bush to announce that he could not give anything from the country, as the country itself has no legitimate authority to dispense monies for those kinds of purposes. I bet if he then asked the American people to do what they could, the folks in Sri Lanka and Sumatra would see the real spirit of American generosity.

"I guess I have finally become dependent on the government myself. When I imagine the horror experienced by those who survived the events I want to help. Then I hear my government is going to do it for me and I think 'Great, I already gave....on April 15th.' Then I realize all over again that when the government does it one is never sure it will be done right."

- News & Views reader Dr. Michael E. Clifford of Las Vegas, NV (Editor's Note: If you haven't done so recently, go to www.citizenoutreach.com and click on the "Not Yours To Give" button to read the Davy Crockett story Dr. Clifford refers to above)

FOUNDING WISDOM

"Charity is no part of the legislative duty of the government."

- James Madison

SURVEY SAYS!

Should President Bush provide financial disaster aid to tsunami victims directly from the U.S. treasury...or make a public appeal for Americans to donate voluntarily to private relief efforts?

* Give the money from the government treasury
* Ask for voluntary, personal donations
* Huh?

Cast your vote by clicking the "Survey Says!" tab at www.citizenoutreach.com

Should President Bush provide financial disaster aid to tsunami victims directly from the U.S. treasury...or make a public appeal for Americans to donate voluntarily to private relief efforts?
Give the money from the government treasury
7%
Ask for voluntary, personal donations
90%
Huh?
3%
Total Votes: 178

[RedBloodedAmerican]

I understand your point. You aren't saying this is not a major event or a major story, but that some media are using the images to sensationalize (beyond reporting) the story. although I don't know how much this catastrophe can be sensationalized beyond reality. I am too numb from the enormity of it to take it all in.

I think I have seen others hang onto the coattails of this time of sympathy outpouring and using it to scam well-meaning people.

I get your point, but the timing of it might have been off, not sure.

[dfrussell]

I do, however, feel that what aid we send should be proportionate to the aid we have received relative to the War on Terror.

This is what the United Nations is for and we are the prime funder of the UN and also the only country capable of the airlift required.

The actual dollar figure donated annually by the US directly and indirectly to charitable funds is more than most/all other countries combined.

Why would any sane person contribute any more money to UN controlled efforts?

[Jon Alvarez]

we pay 21% of UN budget...I never said give more $ to the UN. Screw that.

what, Russia and China have no planes? France, Germany?

I know we pay more than our fair share, that's what I was talking about. I said we should send material aid proportionate to the help we've received in Iraq.

[BobL]

"but that some media are using the images to sensationalize"

Thanks, that's basically it. As terrible as it is for those caught up, it really has no long-term significance to this country or to world as a whole. Whereas the fact that China will have a larger economy than ours in 8 years and be double our size 15 years after that has HUGE significance to anyone (like myself) who wants to see their children grow up in a free country. Or in Europe, that, short of a bloodbath, is almost assured to be nearly all Muslim by the year 2100 (and Muslim dominated much sooner than that).

There are some really, really, big stories out there are almost totally ignored by the media. Those stores will affect whether my kids and (hopefully) grand kids get to live a life in this country anywhere near my own.

Yet these, for the most part, go unreported - as non-events (and, in some cases, reporting on them can be construed as racism)

[Howlin]

which is fine by me.

Well, thank you so damn much for giving us your stamp of approval.

Quite frankly, YOU are the type of poster who gives the MSM ammunition to call Free Republic a whack site.

Go away.

[BobL]

Thanks Jon - and no, I don't consider this abuse (if you want to see me abused, look at how people react when I tell them that I HATE toll roads and don't want our Texas freeways being converted to toll roads).

These tragedies are tough on everyone - some of the accounts were very tough on me (such as a kid being pulled out to sea from his father's grip). But so is slavery in the Sudan and genocide in Cambodia - it just doesn't get reported first hand - so who cares? (cynicism intended)

[Howlin]

I intended to only out at the Media's continued manipulation of us.

As you have only been here less than a month, let me give you a few facts and some advice.

There is absolutely no reason for you to feel that you need to warn the people at FR about being "manipulated" by the press. This is the absolute LAST place on earth that will believe one word the media says without checking it out.

And if we did need to be warned, we certainly wouldn't be listening to a newbie making snotty remarks about a disaster of biblical proportions.

Oh, sure, there have been events with more deaths, but this one happened LAST SUNDAY; if you don't mind, we, as a forum, will handle our grief and our knowledge of this disaster as we have long before you got here.

This isn't a chat room, nor a blog. Watch your nasty remarks on threads that involve the death of thoussands of people.

[BobL]

No - sorry. I don't mind helping out people in need.

My problem is with the MSM and the way they manipulate us. The starving in Africa had nothing to do with a lack of food, it was all caused by politics and warfare - yet they show us they terrible pics and never tell has that.

This country needs to get past being manipulated and get serious, if we are to straighten it out. My parents watched Fahrenheit 911, told me they knew it was garbage, but then started quoting from it almost verbatim. They affect people even when they think they're immune.

Personally, I think we have every right not to trust the MSM - on anything, considering how they manipulate the facts. So, I'm not giving them a pass on this also.

[BobL]

I think that my attacks have been clear and they have not denigrated the people that were in the path of the tidal wave.

I'm sorry if I haven't been on this site very long, but, even in my short time, I've seen many cases where people are being manipulated, so I comment where I see fit.

[ruthles]

Bob, I find myself doing the same thing. I'm always assuming there is a spin to everything. The tragedy withstanding, the media will somehow use this to blame America and Bush I'm sure.

[RedBloodedAmerican]

Well I don't think they should under-report it either especially in favor of reporting "other" news.

My problem is when it will become so Greta-Van-Susternized that we become numb to the reality of it.

It will have a major effect on the rest of the World, even if it is an area made up mostly of false religions. But it won't alter our society, if that's what you meant.

[Howlin]

The magnitude of this loss is big enough that we don't have to compare it to others.

And, as I said, you don't need to warn us; we invented that right here.

[RedBloodedAmerican]

This isn't a chat room, nor a blog

Hmmm. That comment should be the title of its own thread created by the Admin Moderator. My main beef right now...too many new folks within the last few months using FR to pimp their sites for traffic/hits.

[BobL]

Thanks for the comment - the Washington Post already has labeled Bush as insensitive, so you're on the mark. I wonder if they would have said the same had Clinton been president.

Next, they'll find that we vetoed an early-warning system that could have saved thousands of lives (just making this up, who knows if true).

But they'll comment on the tens of thousands of more deaths they'll contribute to this tragedy because of Malaria (through the banning of DDT), and other preventable causes. They get a free pass.

[RobRoy]

I agree with your assessments in that post. Your earlier post was deleted before I could read it. What I have gleaned from what others have quoted from it leads me to the following:

Although I agree with the thought process that led to your statement - myself being do distrustful of the media that I dumped tv almost eight years ago - I think you may be fighting the wrong battle here.

A natural disaster which kills this many people in this many diverse places is a news story - one of the biggest of the century. The pictures in this case merely drive the point home.

Now, the Scott peterson case...that's a different story.

[Howlin]

No kidding.

[RobRoy]

Your post is insensisive and very un-PC.

I believe it is also accurate.

[proud_2_B_texasgal]

"Take away the pictures and this is virtually a non-story."

Unless it happens to YOU, my friend. Some people are just out-of-sight out-of-mind kinda people I guess.

This is one of the biggest, most tragic, worldwide,"non-story" of our lifetime.

[BobL]

"It will have a major effect on the rest of the World...But it won't alter our society, if that's what you meant."

That's basically it. The really important stuff that can alter or destroy our society gets virtually ignored by the media, and events like this, bad as they are, are covered 24/7.

Any time this many people die from a single event is legitimately a huge story. But I'm a lot more worried about China's impending development of a blue-water navy than I am about this disaster repeating.

...and that's for one simple reason - we can easily prevent something like this from happening again. I'm still trying to figure out what our plan is when we meet the Chinese navy in the middle of the Pacific. I guess I can keep watching the MSM, but no luck so far.

[BobL]

"Unless it happens to YOU, my friend. Some people are just out-of-sight out-of-mind kinda people I guess."

That's my point - of course it's bad when it happens to me. But the out-of-sight, out-of-mind is exactly what happened in Cambodia with Pol Pot. I was in grade school at the time and read some accounts - but the bottom line was that no one cared in this country - because the no reporters could get in there. About 2,000,000 people died there.

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

My main beef right now...too many new folks within the last few months

Ain't that the truth, bigger is not always better.

And you see more fights between the old guard and the newbies on all the threads.

BigMack