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Doctors Kill More People Than Guns Do
NewsMax.com ^ | 12/29/04 | Nathan Tabor

Posted on 12/29/2004 2:25:18 PM PST by kattracks

Back before the November election, many mainstream media pundits – trying desperately to get John Kerry elected – began to harp on President Bush's unwillingness to stop certain federal gun control laws from expiring as scheduled. But their propaganda efforts came to naught because this issue was a non-starter with the American people.

The fact is, in this day of post-9/11 increased security consciousness, most average Americans simply don’t want more gun control. They want more guns on hand to defend themselves and their loved ones in the face of possible life-threatening danger. Soccer moms are now taking handgun proficiency courses down at the local firing range.

Liberals are always complaining about getting to the root of the problem – unless it deals with gun rights. Then they abandon all logical analysis and resort to hysteria, distortion and downright lies.

Today I want to set the record straight and dispel a few of the more common myths with some hard facts.

First, according to statistics provided by the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, there is an interesting correlation between accidental deaths caused by guns and those caused by doctors.

Doctors: (A) There are 700,000 physicians in the U.S. (B) Accidental deaths caused by physicians total 120,000 per year. (C) Accidental death percentage per physician is 0.171.

Guns: (A) There are 80 million gun owners in the U.S. (B) There are 1,500 accidental gun deaths per year, all age groups. (C) The percentage of accidental deaths per gun owner is 0.0000188.

Statistically, then, doctors are 9,000 times more dangerous to the public health than gun owners are.

Fact: NOT EVERYONE HAS A GUN, BUT ALMOST EVERYONE HAS AT LEAST ONE DOCTOR. Following the logic of liberals, we should all be warned: "Guns don't kill people. Doctors do."

More seriously, Dr. Glen Otero of the Claremont Institute has published an enlightening article entitled "Ten Myths About Gun Control." (The entire article can be found at the Web site of Doctors for Sensible Gun Laws, www.dsl.org.) Here are just a few of his well-documented findings.

You get the picture: Guns don’t kill people. People kill people. But sometimes law-abiding citizens with guns can save the lives of other innocent people.

It’s time to restore some common sense to the hysterical debate over gun control. When Cain killed Abel with a rock, God didn’t ban all rocks. He dealt with Cain personally. We need to enforce our criminal laws against murder, robbery and assault.

I will cite the testimony of just one more expert witness. No, it’s not another politician or media pundit. Here’s what former Mafia underboss, self-confessed hit man and government informant Sammy "The Bull" Gravano had to say:

"Gun control? It’s the best thing you can do for crooks and gangsters. I want you to have nothing. If I’m a bad guy, I’m always gonna have a gun. Safety locks? You pull the trigger with a lock on, and I’ll pull the trigger. We’ll see who wins."

It’s time for liberals to go out and buy a gun. And maybe get a life – or at least protect one.

Copyright © 2004 by Nathan Tabor



TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: bang; banglist; junkscience
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1 posted on 12/29/2004 2:25:19 PM PST by kattracks
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To: kattracks

"Doctors Kill More People Than Guns Do"

And traffic accidents kill more police officers.


2 posted on 12/29/2004 2:27:48 PM PST by Spok
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To: kattracks
A) There are 700,000 physicians in the U.S. (B) Accidental deaths caused by physicians total 120,000 per year. (C) Accidental death percentage per physician is 0.171.

Hmmm - I wouldn't go bragging about these figures if you tort reform.

3 posted on 12/29/2004 2:28:00 PM PST by PFC
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To: kattracks

"When doctors are outlawed, only outlaws will have doctors" - Doc Holliday


4 posted on 12/29/2004 2:28:13 PM PST by F15Eagle ((sorry))
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To: kattracks

What about the dreaded doctors with guns? I shudder to think of the possiblities. ;)


5 posted on 12/29/2004 2:28:42 PM PST by secret garden (Faith is not believing that God can. It is knowing that God will.)
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To: kattracks

Very Good....

This should drive the libs nuts for a while.

Thanks for posting it.

Regards,
Joe


6 posted on 12/29/2004 2:29:08 PM PST by Sonar5 (60+ Million have Spoken Clearly - "We Want Our Country Back")
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To: kattracks

This month's Health and Healing newsletter by Dr. Julian Whitaker indicates that about 800,000 people are killed each year by adverse reactions from prescription medication- more than heart disease and cancer combined.


7 posted on 12/29/2004 2:29:46 PM PST by Rockitz (After all these years, it's still rocket science.)
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To: Huber; TaxRelief

Nathan Tabor ping! The guy is getting some "press"!


8 posted on 12/29/2004 2:31:57 PM PST by Tax-chick (To turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just.)
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To: Spok

Bookmarked and printed.


9 posted on 12/29/2004 2:32:21 PM PST by mtbopfuyn
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To: Sonar5

...although they could turn this around into an anti-tort reform message...


10 posted on 12/29/2004 2:32:39 PM PST by The Teen Conservative
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To: kattracks

bttt


11 posted on 12/29/2004 2:32:45 PM PST by facedown (Armed in the Heartland)
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To: kattracks

This would be good to give to your kids when they go in for a physical, since they are likely to be asked if there are any guns in the house.


12 posted on 12/29/2004 2:32:50 PM PST by leadpencil1 (You are never to old to do something the right way.)
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To: Sonar5
All you'll ever need is found here...

http://www.gunfacts.info/

13 posted on 12/29/2004 2:35:49 PM PST by Puppage (You may disagree with what I have to say, but I shall defend to your death my right to say it.)
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To: kattracks

I've always said folks should stay away from doctors and carry guns to stay healthy!


14 posted on 12/29/2004 2:37:16 PM PST by FreedomHasACost
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To: kattracks
Ok, so how many doctors accidentally kill gunshot accident victims?
15 posted on 12/29/2004 2:38:04 PM PST by RedBloodedAmerican
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To: MontanaCowgirlCop

A .38 a day helps keep doctors away?


16 posted on 12/29/2004 2:38:55 PM PST by RedBloodedAmerican
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To: RedBloodedAmerican

LOL!!!! A .38 a day keeps almost all bad things away for real! I will say doctors do do some good.


17 posted on 12/29/2004 2:42:41 PM PST by FreedomHasACost
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To: secret garden

we need a federal program to issue trigger locks to put on all doctors.


18 posted on 12/29/2004 2:42:50 PM PST by Rakkasan1 (Justice of the Piece: Hope IS on the way...)
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To: leadpencil1
This would be good to give to your kids when they go in for a physical, since they are likely to be asked if there are any guns in the house.

Doctor: Are there any guns in your house?

Patient: No.

Doctor: Well, that's good!

Patient: No, I don't like to leave them unattended, so I always keep them in my immediate possession.

19 posted on 12/29/2004 2:45:03 PM PST by Disambiguator
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To: kattracks

Consider this..."More people die in the Cleveland Clinic than the Walk-in clinic."


20 posted on 12/29/2004 2:46:50 PM PST by Defendingliberty (www.456th.com)
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To: mtbopfuyn; Happy2BMe

Only doctors and lawyers have practices. You don't object to being practiced on, do you?


21 posted on 12/29/2004 2:48:02 PM PST by B4Ranch (((The lack of alcohol in my coffee forces me to see reality!)))
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To: kattracks

Wonder what the accidental death percentage per stunt team, bomb disposal personnel, fighter pilot, Alaskan crab boat captain etc is?

Dealing with sick people is inherently dangerous. The performance of medical care delivery carries risk.

How many deaths would occur without the presence or participation of imperfect doctors, who make fatal mistakes, in the population at risk for iatrogenic injury/fatalities?

Sorry to post and run but I am on my way out of the office and wanted to express a alternate viewpoint for contemplation.


22 posted on 12/29/2004 2:48:17 PM PST by US admirer
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To: kattracks

Read this back when GOPfun.com was regularly maintained. Always a fun stat to use against the gun control nuts!


23 posted on 12/29/2004 2:52:05 PM PST by TheRatHunter
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To: kattracks; cpforlife.org

"Doctors: (A) There are 700,000 physicians in the U.S. (B) Accidental deaths caused by physicians total 120,000 per year. (C) Accidental death percentage per physician is 0.171."

These figures do not take into account the deaths that are caused by doctors ON PURPOSE, in the name of "Woman's right to choose."


24 posted on 12/29/2004 2:55:07 PM PST by shibumi ("In any compromise between good and evil, it is only evil that can profit." - John Galt)
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To: Defendingliberty
More people die in the Cleveland Clinic than the Walk-in clinic

The ones in the Cleveland Clinic are sicker.

If you have a disease that is 100% fatal, and you get a treatment that is 90% effective but has a 10% complication rate, and you die of a complication, were you "killed by the doctor"?

25 posted on 12/29/2004 2:57:07 PM PST by Jim Noble (Colgate '72)
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To: kattracks

Do Doctors kill more people than cigarettes? Maybe we should outlaw Doctors (especially in the inner city)? Or at least levy hefty tax on people stupid enough to use Doctors. Its for their own good anyway, as using a Doctor has been shown to precede death. For good measure, hospitals should be sued for "distributing" Doctors.

I could go on and on.......


26 posted on 12/29/2004 3:20:39 PM PST by rbg81
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To: kattracks

My wife had a cousin who was ran over by a Doctor in front of the hospital.....I'M SERIOUS !!


27 posted on 12/29/2004 3:40:12 PM PST by Azure Dreams
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To: US admirer
I believe the author wrote this with tongue firmly placed in cheek. He was trying to make a point, imo, not knock doctors in general.
28 posted on 12/29/2004 3:45:44 PM PST by kattracks
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To: kattracks

**I believe the author wrote this with tongue firmly placed in cheek. He was trying to make a point, imo, not knock doctors in general.**

Personally, I have more confidence in faith healing, chiropractors,shamans, medicine men and witch doctors ;)


29 posted on 12/29/2004 3:49:10 PM PST by Azure Dreams
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To: secret garden
What about the dreaded doctors with guns? I shudder to think of the possiblities. ;)

I think we need stricter laws that will make it more difficult to see a doctor at a gun show.

30 posted on 12/29/2004 3:55:02 PM PST by GreenHornet
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To: GreenHornet

Can you imagine a doctor reporting to the OR with a Desert Eagle on his hip?


31 posted on 12/29/2004 3:59:36 PM PST by verity (The Liberal Media is America's Enemy)
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To: kattracks
Doctors: (A) There are 700,000 physicians in the U.S. (B) Accidental deaths caused by physicians total 120,000 per year. (C) Accidental death percentage per physician is 0.171.

This doesn't even include the "wrong leg taken off" type incidents which don't kill, but maim.

Thanks for posting the article.

az

32 posted on 12/29/2004 4:04:55 PM PST by Arizona
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To: Jim Noble

You have to understand, that Doctors in general make a good living and therefore are among the "privileged". For that reason it certainly is justified to believe any made up derogatory statistics about them.


33 posted on 12/29/2004 4:07:39 PM PST by Bushforlife (I've noticed that everybody that is for abortion has already been born. ~Ronald Reagan)
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To: Defendingliberty

Please note, that is why they call it the "Walk-in"clinic and not the "Walk-out" clinic. No guarantees.


34 posted on 12/29/2004 4:26:49 PM PST by Shisan ("The law is the true embodiment of everything that's excellent...")
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To: Jim Noble
If you rupture an abdominal aortic aneurysm outside the hospital, but make it to the hospital alive, the survival rate is less than 50%, due to the nature of the disease. So the surgeons who take these very ill patients to the operating room immediately save 50% of them. That's the rational viewpoint.

On the other hand, we have the irrational, conventional wisdom, emotionally charged sensationalist viewpoint: those surgeons kill half of those patients.

As a practicing physician for 25 years, I truly look forward to retirement. Our society's prevailing victim mentality that physicians are responsible for any bad medical outcome has led me to the point where I actually actively discourage any young person who wishes to practice medicine, including my own children. For those of you who subscribe to the "hate the privileged doctor class warfare mentality", I have this advice: Go Treat Yourselves.
35 posted on 12/29/2004 4:34:04 PM PST by Bushforlife (I've noticed that everybody that is for abortion has already been born. ~Ronald Reagan)
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To: kattracks

BTTT!!!


36 posted on 12/29/2004 4:41:40 PM PST by Bradís Gramma (Proud Patriots dot ORG!!! Operation Valentine's Day!!)
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To: The Teen Conservative
...although they could turn this around into an anti-tort reform message...

Only if you make the mistaken assumption that every one of those deaths is due to error or negligence on the part of the physician.

Sheer statistical probability dictates that some percentage of a physician's patient base will die during any given year.

Even if that physician is a dermatologist.

: ^ )

37 posted on 12/29/2004 4:51:31 PM PST by George Smiley (The only 180 that Kerry hasn't done is the one that would release ALL his military records.)
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To: ConservativeGadfly

Your favorite opponent...


38 posted on 12/29/2004 4:56:45 PM PST by Bob J (RIGHTALK.com...a conservative alternative to NPR!)
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To: kattracks

Gun ping


39 posted on 12/29/2004 4:59:27 PM PST by Buzwardo
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To: F15Eagle

They can have my doctor when they pry him from my cold dead hands .....

nah just doesn't sound right.......


40 posted on 12/29/2004 5:06:36 PM PST by festus (The constitution may be flawed but its a whole lot better than what we have now !)
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To: kattracks; Bushforlife
Oh boy, we get to revist the old "doctors kill more people than....." meme yet again.

First of all, consider that the VAST majority of people who are checked into a hospital are sick (duh). The severity of the sickness obviously determines the prognosis (again, duh). There are many instances where certain treatments, or lack thereof, can hasten the death of someone who was already terminal. If that means a person dies 3 months sooner than expected, the study used to derive this number counts that as a "physician caused death".

The study itself, conducted by the Institute of Medicine has been shown to be highly questionable.

How Many Deaths Are Due to Medical Error? Getting the Number Right

Deaths Due to Medical Errors Are Exaggerated in Institute of Medicine Report

Deaths From Medical Errors May Have Been Overstated

Special Article: How Many Medical Error Deaths Are There Really?

41 posted on 12/29/2004 5:10:35 PM PST by TomB ("The terrorist wraps himself in the world's grievances to cloak his true motives." - S. Rushdie)
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To: kattracks

BAN DOCTORS!

We should AT LEAST require a five-day waiting period before people could see a doctor.


42 posted on 12/29/2004 5:15:06 PM PST by LibertarianInExile (NO BLOOD FOR CHOCOLATE! Get the UN-ignoring, unilateralist Frogs out of Ivory Coast!)
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To: festus

Great minds think alike...ping to 42. :)


43 posted on 12/29/2004 5:16:30 PM PST by LibertarianInExile (NO BLOOD FOR CHOCOLATE! Get the UN-ignoring, unilateralist Frogs out of Ivory Coast!)
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To: Bushforlife
As a practicing physician for 25 years, I truly look forward to retirement. Our society's prevailing victim mentality that physicians are responsible for any bad medical outcome has led me to the point where I actually actively discourage any young person who wishes to practice medicine, including my own children. For those of you who subscribe to the "hate the privileged doctor class warfare mentality", I have this advice: Go Treat Yourselves.

I really think that you have missed the point here.

The poster was mearly trying to point out that sometime we direct our concerns about emotional issues to the wrong places.

Why focus our energy on guns, as opposed to many other far more prevalent causes of death... unless of course there's a political motivation behind it...

which, of course, there is.

No need to go defensive. No one's after you.

44 posted on 12/29/2004 5:17:11 PM PST by Beenliedto (A Free Stater getting ready to pack my bags!)
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To: Beenliedto
No need to go defensive. No one's after you.

By repeating the oft-debunked numbers the author uses for physicians, he is doing a great disservice to the profession, despite his higher intentions.

If you look around the internet, those numbers have taken on a life of their own amongst lawyers, alternative medicine websites, chiropractors, etc. And mindlessly repeating them helps noone.

45 posted on 12/29/2004 5:22:10 PM PST by TomB ("The terrorist wraps himself in the world's grievances to cloak his true motives." - S. Rushdie)
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To: kattracks
Liberals are always complaining about getting to the root of the problem – unless it deals with gun rights. Then they abandon all logical analysis and resort to hysteria, distortion and downright lies.

Name, please, one issue where the liberals do NOT abandon all logical analysis and do NOT resort to hysteria, etc.

46 posted on 12/29/2004 5:24:07 PM PST by PeoplesRepublicOfWashington (Patriotism is patriotic.)
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To: Bushforlife

I've told this story on FR before... I'll tell it again... when I was 2 years old, my mother felt something was seriously wrong with me. She went to a doctor, who said I had the flu and sent me home. She went to the ER, who said & did the same. As this was on a naval base, my father dressed up in full officer uniform and marched to the ER with me and demanded they admit me. They finally did so--and took a spinal tap... the fluid was so cloudy, they didn't even wait for the results, they pumped me full of antibiotics and told my parents they'd know by morning whether I'd live or not... and if they'd waited one more night, I would've died.

So it was a misdiagnosis, but I don't blame the doctors, I blame people like my friend who ran to the ER for cutting her finger on an opened can lid and screamed until she saw a doctor and got a shot. Those cases make doctors quite cynical and deaf to a mother's true instinct.


47 posted on 12/29/2004 5:26:02 PM PST by Nataku X (There are no converts in Islam... only hostages.)
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To: Bushforlife

Hello Doc. I've practiced general surgery since 1979. Just recently retired. You get it. The folks need to consider that everytime we take an imflammed appendix out or a gall bladder, we have saved that persons life as compared to the preantibiotic era. Before antibiotics and vaccines people died of disease no one dies of today, or very few. As for retirement, I recommmend you get there as fast as possible. It is wonderful.


48 posted on 12/29/2004 5:29:14 PM PST by Texas Songwriter (p)
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To: Beenliedto
Really? No need to be defensive? Gosh, what a relief. I thought the big headline on the post was "Doctors Kill More People Than Guns Do". I guess I'm wrong to resent seeing my profession maligned yet again.

And no one is after me? Gosh, that explains the 5 lawsuits I've had in my years of practice, every one of which was unfounded, and every one of which was a judgment for the defense [me]. Yes, I won, at the cost of years of worry, loss of sleep, time away from work, and nice newspaper headlines such as "Local Doctor Charged with Negligence" prior to the defense verdict, which was buried on page 8.

The current figures are that the Emergency Physicians are sued once every 10.5 thousand patients. I currently see 9.1 thousand patients a year. No, I shouldn't be defensive. No one is after me. Not even the posts about the wrong leg amputations, and the walk-out clinic. Darn it, I'm being oversensitive again.
49 posted on 12/29/2004 5:35:02 PM PST by Bushforlife (I've noticed that everybody that is for abortion has already been born. ~Ronald Reagan)
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To: Nakatu X
Nice story, but not a misdiagnosis. Some illnesses are very hard to diagnose, including meningitis. Good studies show that bacterial meningitis in its' early stages is ABSOLUTELY INDISTINGUISHABLE clinically from a viral syndrome. So unless we as a society are prepared to spinal tap every child that presents to the doctor with a fever, the diagnosis of meningitis will continue to be difficult, and some patients will be sent home. That is the fault of the way the disease presents, the lack of sensitivity of the current tests, but NOT the doctor. I always tell the parents of a feverish child that they need to return immediately if worse, and if not better in 2 days, because of just this situation.

You have doctors and fortune tellers mixed up. We can't predict the future.

If I told you that your 2 year old child with a fever of 101 needed a spinal tap, and he has absolutely no sign of meningitis on labs or physical exam, you would want to know why. If the reason is that there is a 1 in 100,000 chance that he could have early meningitis, but a 99,000 out of a 100,000 chance that it is just a virus, you would no doubt refuse. Yet he could have it. And if I routinely press parents to allow this, the complaints would drive me out of business ["this doctor has absolutely no indication that my child has meningitis, but he subjected her to a spinal tap!"]. So no doctor can practice like that. So we tell parents the odds, and send them home. And therefore the 1 in 100,000 who really HAS meningitis is NOT a misdiagnosis; it is a delayed presentation of disease.
50 posted on 12/29/2004 5:47:51 PM PST by Bushforlife (I've noticed that everybody that is for abortion has already been born. ~Ronald Reagan)
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