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No, It Wasn't French vs. Indians
The New York Times ^ | January 1, 2005 | GLENN COLLINS

Posted on 01/01/2005 6:44:12 AM PST by Pharmboy

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Since I love Gen. Washington, this war is special to me. It also set up the RevWar in a number of ways.
1 posted on 01/01/2005 6:44:13 AM PST by Pharmboy
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To: Pharmboy
Is this where I say : "It's Bush's fault!"?

Thanks for the post. I love these historical threads.

2 posted on 01/01/2005 6:45:57 AM PST by Caipirabob (Democrats.. Socialists..Commies..Traitors...Who can tell the difference?)
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To: Pharmboy

I am all for the celebration of the French and Indian War of the 1760s so long as we don't have to get the French involved in the affair.


3 posted on 01/01/2005 6:49:26 AM PST by wmileo
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To: Pharmboy

Great post; I've always enjoyed history. The French & Indian War is little known even in the upstate NY, Ohio Valley & Great Lakes areas where it was fought; Washington's role was probably more central to this conflict than anyone else of his age--and that in turn gave him the military knowledge and leadership experience he used to bring victory in the Revolutionary War.


4 posted on 01/01/2005 7:04:10 AM PST by mark502inf
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To: Pharmboy
There was a thread a while ago talking about how the French were our First Enemy...

Was this war called St. Catherine's War in France?
5 posted on 01/01/2005 7:09:08 AM PST by Mark was here (My tag line was about to be censored.)
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To: Pharmboy
Chapman Historical Museum A painting that was commissioned by the Glens Falls Insurance Company in the early 20th century is titled the "Surrender of Fort William Henry, Lake George, N.Y. 1757."

My hometown. On Free Republic! What a way to start the new year! This is a great museum by the way.

6 posted on 01/01/2005 7:09:21 AM PST by andyandval
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To: mark502inf
Why thank you...I post these because there are many Freepers who share my interest in early American history.

What is so fascinating about the General is that he demonstrated incredible heroism during the Massacre on the Monongahela when he carried the wounded General Braddock from the field under heavy fire. George II learned Washington's name for this feat.

If you visit Alexandria, VA, (where Braddock began his ill-fated trek) you can still drive down Braddock Road.

7 posted on 01/01/2005 7:11:29 AM PST by Pharmboy (Listen...you can still hear the old media sobbing.)
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To: Mrs Mark

I think they also call it "The Seven Years' War."


8 posted on 01/01/2005 7:13:52 AM PST by Pharmboy (Listen...you can still hear the old media sobbing.)
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To: Pharmboy

When I was in high school we watched "The Last of the Mohicans" in history class and that was about all we were taught about that war.


9 posted on 01/01/2005 7:17:59 AM PST by mainepatsfan
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To: Pharmboy

One of the things I think history lessons fail to impress about Washington was how physically impressive he was - he literally dominated people with his presence. He was 6'2", which would be equivalent to someone around 6'6"/280 lbs today - say, an NFL lineman. Imagine an expert horseman and fearsome leader of that size exorting troops to give it their all.


10 posted on 01/01/2005 7:22:43 AM PST by lemura
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To: Pharmboy
No, It Wasn't French vs. Indians

Typical Times, assuming that its readership is stupid.

11 posted on 01/01/2005 7:26:41 AM PST by Rodney King (No, we can't all just get along.)
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To: Mrs Mark
"the French were our First Enemy..."

The French were indeed the first enemy of the United States (not counting the indians). Under the Adams administration we fought what was called the "Quasi War" against them for authorizing privateers against our shipping.

Our new Navy and our new Marines kicked their butt. Our privateers made out OK too.

12 posted on 01/01/2005 7:29:01 AM PST by mrsmith
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To: Pharmboy
"I fortunately escaped without any wound, for the right wing, where I stood, was exposed to and received all the enemy's fire, and it was the part where the man was killed, and the rest wounded. I heard the bullets whistle, and, believe me there is something charming in the sound."

G. Washington --- 1754 (On the skirmish against the French & Indians at Jumonville Glenn that started the war.)

The first of many times over the next 30 years when he would be under fire, yet never wounded.

13 posted on 01/01/2005 7:31:44 AM PST by Ditto ( No trees were killed in sending this message, but billions of electrons were inconvenienced.)
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To: Pharmboy

That's because in this war, Indians carried away captured white people and sold them as slaves to the French Priests in Canada.

The Indians were slaughtering towns up and down the Hudson and inside Massachusetts, too.


http://www.gospelcom.net/chi/DAILYF/2002/11/daily-11-21-2002.shtml


November 21, 1706 • John Williams, The Redeemed Captive, Returned
Indians return English captives in an unrelated incident.
Dawn was still two hours away on the morning of February 29, 1704. Inside the fence at Deerfield, Massachusetts, 291 people slept fearlessly. Expecting no trouble on such a cold, quiet night, the settlers had posted no night watch.

But, creeping quietly through three feet of hardened snow, a party of over 300 French and Indian fighters approached the town. Probably they noted with satisfaction the snow drifts that had piled high against the little town's palisade. They swarmed over the protecting fence and into the houses.

John Williams and his wife Eunice woke to find twenty painted warriors howling around their bed. Newly arrived to Deerfield as its first pastor, John was the most prominent person in the town. Indians tied him with ropes. Before his horrified eyes they tomahawked his six year old son, a six week old daughter and a black servant.

For three hours, the French and Indians looted the town. They set fire to its houses and barns. When men from neighboring towns came to Deerfield's defense, the enemy battled them. Finally, they disappeared into the snowy wilderness with 109 captives, leaving 56 settlers dead. Wading through three feet of snow, the raiding party headed North on a seven week trek to Montreal, Canada.

On the second day, John saw that his wife could not hold up. She was still weak from her last pregnancy. Knowing that the raiders would spare no one who was unable to keep up the pace, John said good-bye to her. Soon afterward, she stumbled while wading a small river and "was plunged over head and ears in the water; after which she traveled not far, for the cruel and bloodthirsty savage slew her with his hatchet."

Why had a Puritan pastor in a remote outpost been targeted for this bitter destiny? For one thing, Boston authorities held a Canadian "pirate" named Jean-Baptiste Guyon. The Canadians wanted this naval officer back, and thought a hostage exchange might force the negotiations along. For another, their Indian allies were concerned at the numbers of colonists moving westward and demanded that something be done to slow the land grab.

Although his own feet were so raw that he had to wring blood out of his socks each night, John did all he could to keep up the spirits of the other captives. Sixty of them were eventually released. John was one of the last. He returned to a hero's welcome in Massachusetts on this day, November 21, 1706. Shortly afterward, he wrote a bestseller The Redeemed Captive Returning to Zion.

The book was half heroism and half complaint. His main gripe, apart from the brutal attack itself, was that the French attempted to force their Protestant captives to convert to Catholicism. In its other details, the book remains an important source of information on colonial life.

John Williams died on June 12, 1729. One of his daughters, Eunice, would not be there to bury him. Captured with him, she never returned home, but married an Indian.


14 posted on 01/01/2005 7:40:39 AM PST by RaceBannon (Jesus: Born of the Jews, through the Jews, for the sins of the World!)
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To: Pharmboy
If you visit Alexandria, VA, (where Braddock began his ill-fated trek) you can still drive down Braddock Road.

I recommend a visit to Fort Necessity (about 10 miles east of Uniontown PA) where you can see a recreation of the stockade in the Great Meadow, and also visit nearby Jumonville Glenn, and Braddock's grave.

15 posted on 01/01/2005 7:42:22 AM PST by Ditto ( No trees were killed in sending this message, but billions of electrons were inconvenienced.)
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To: Pharmboy

They've done a wonderful job with the restoration of Fort Ticonderoga. It's well worth a visit.


16 posted on 01/01/2005 7:44:21 AM PST by mewzilla
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To: Pharmboy

I love history and really enjoyed this post. This war really did shape the future of America and should be remembered. The British ended up in control of much of North America after this war. I don't think North America would of ever of amounted to anything if the British had lost. The French were a tough enemy at that time in their history and victory was never certain. It was perhaps their reliance on Indian allies that did the French in, since while fierce, they were not disciplined and trained troops. The experience that it gave the colonials was essential to our success in the revolutionary war.


17 posted on 01/01/2005 7:47:37 AM PST by dog breath
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To: Pharmboy
...the English thought of them as dirty savages and treated them terribly."

How else would you regard treacherous stone age aborigines who engaged in terroristic murder, torture and cannibalism and who were in fact physically dirty?


18 posted on 01/01/2005 7:55:11 AM PST by nathanbedford
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To: mainepatsfan

http://www.crossmyt.com/hc/gen/deerfild.html#n2


19 posted on 01/01/2005 8:06:02 AM PST by RaceBannon (Jesus: Born of the Jews, through the Jews, for the sins of the World!)
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To: Pharmboy

Link to a powerpoint on the French and Indian war: http://staff.fcps.net/pnewton/ppt/The%20French%20and%20Indian%20War-ALL.ppt#280,25,Treaty of Paris 1763

Ohio history central: http://www.ohiohistorycentral.org/ohc/history/h_indian/events/index.shtml

It depends on where you live in Ohio as to whether you know much about this war or not, or about the Ohio Indian wars, etc. With river and place names like Kanawha, Chillicothe, Mohawk, Delaware, Wyandot, etc., the area is filled with reminders of this area's heritage. Add to the mix the pre-historic mounds, and the Shakers, Moravians, Mennonites, Amish, Quakers and so forth, and you have quite a spicy history. Iriquois came from New York to gather Flint, too. However, it is too bad the Logan Elm really is now gone, even if Chief Pontiac has a statue to him farther north. Tecumseh is remembered every summer, though, in the play..........


20 posted on 01/01/2005 8:09:37 AM PST by combat_boots (Dug in and not budging an inch.)
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To: combat_boots

My personal favorite from this historic period is Mad Anthony Wayne, who has a county named after him, and who helped the original GW at this time.


21 posted on 01/01/2005 8:11:12 AM PST by combat_boots (Dug in and not budging an inch.)
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To: RaceBannon

To be perfectly fair, the English settlers and their Indian allies treated the French settlers and their Indian allies much the same.

This was a war to see who would dominate North America, the British or the French. It was not a war between absolute good and absolute evil.

The atrocities committed by each side were similar in type and in scope. We hear about those committed by the French and their allies because they were committed against "our" side.


22 posted on 01/01/2005 8:13:45 AM PST by Restorer
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To: Chad Fairbanks

ping


23 posted on 01/01/2005 8:15:33 AM PST by DaughterOfAnIwoJimaVet (Governor Rossi was robbed.)
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To: Restorer

Perfectly fair my foot.

I collect old history books, and the stories of the INdians and their savagry against the settlers is well documented.

And there are no stories of Englishmen capturing Frenchmen and selling them as slaves in the new world.


24 posted on 01/01/2005 8:16:10 AM PST by RaceBannon (Jesus: Born of the Jews, through the Jews, for the sins of the World!)
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To: Pharmboy

The French, America's oldest enemy.


25 posted on 01/01/2005 8:18:20 AM PST by NeoCaveman (I care, just not very much.)
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To: RaceBannon

The history of savagery of the French and their Indian allies is indeed well-documented.

As is that of the English and their allies. But much of that documentation is in French and of little interest to most Americans, so it is not surprising that you are unfamiliar with it.

This was a war that went on without really stopping for almost as long as American has been a nation. Horrible deeds were committed by all sides.


26 posted on 01/01/2005 8:24:06 AM PST by Restorer
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To: Pharmboy
As a loyal supporter of John Kerry, no matter what terrible crimes he has committed against his country, I must protest any article that mentions Fort Ticonderoga. Each such mention is simply an effort by normal Americans to connect the traitor Benedict Arnold and the traitor John Kerry.

The MSM will not stand for this and neither should we. Sure, both Kerry and Arnold were good Americans until both betrayted their country and went over to the other side. It is unfair to subtly raise the comparison and hihlight Kerry's treason every tme Fort Ticonderoga is mentioned.

27 posted on 01/01/2005 8:31:16 AM PST by Tacis (Democrats! - When You Need America Blamed Or A Pool Peeed In!!)
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To: lemura

Yes...exactly right. And, he was FEARLESS in battle. He demonstrated this a number of times: on the Monogahela, at Trenton, Princeton, Manhattan, &etc. At the ill-fated Battle of Manhattan, he had to be physically led away from the charging Hessians (the incident took place around present-day 42nd St and Lexington Ave.--there was an apple orchard there at the time).


28 posted on 01/01/2005 8:32:30 AM PST by Pharmboy (Listen...you can still hear the old media sobbing.)
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To: Pharmboy
If you visit Alexandria, VA, (where Braddock began his ill-fated trek) you can still drive down Braddock Road.

Which peters out in the middle of nowhere in Loudoun County (or, at least did until Loudoun County had its massive growth spurt). Take a metal detector and try to find Braddock's payroll! :-D

29 posted on 01/01/2005 8:34:42 AM PST by DeaconBenjamin
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To: RaceBannon

Thanks...I have always thought that the Deerfield Raid would make a great movie.


30 posted on 01/01/2005 8:35:13 AM PST by Pharmboy (Listen...you can still hear the old media sobbing.)
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To: Ditto
I have not visited those sites yet, but I surely will. I have a quest to visit all the General's historic sites.

Christmas day our family follows a tradition and visits Mount Vernon as we did this year.

Your Obdt. Svt.,
PB

31 posted on 01/01/2005 8:37:18 AM PST by Pharmboy (Listen...you can still hear the old media sobbing.)
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To: Pharmboy
I'm a Civil War reenactor, but have always wanted to get involved in F&I reenacting because my ancestors were in that war. In 1757 one of my more nefarious and colorful ancestors was delegated by the young Washington to build a fort on the frontier of Virginia, and did so under constant hail of Indian arrows. The fort still stands today, in modified form, and a little village has grown up around it.

The difficulty with F&I reenacting is that there are so few reenactors at any battle that they can hardly hold more than a modest skirmish. It's not like the Civil War reenactors who can sometimes put 30,000 men and 125 guns in the field.

32 posted on 01/01/2005 8:38:25 AM PST by Capriole (the Luddite hypocritically clicking away on her computer)
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To: Rodney King
Typical Times, assuming that its readership is stupid.

Not an unreasonable assumption, for the most part.

33 posted on 01/01/2005 8:39:04 AM PST by DeaconBenjamin
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To: mewzilla
Yes...and Fort Ti figures in both the French and Indian War and the RevWar (for those who are not familiar with it, none other than Benedict Arnold, teamed up with Ethan Allen took the fort in '75).

Allen, banged on the fort's door and cried "Open up in the name of Jehovah!"

34 posted on 01/01/2005 8:40:03 AM PST by Pharmboy (Listen...you can still hear the old media sobbing.)
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To: Pharmboy
How interesting to see a thread on this at this particular time. I've just been reviewing my son's history lessons with him, and a great deal of emphasis is placed on the French and Indian War.

We homeschool, and this is covered in the 4th grade curriculum. I frankly admit my shame at discovering just how much I had forgotten about this important part of our history.

We're transitioning to the American Revolution now, and I find I'm re-learning some of that, too.

35 posted on 01/01/2005 8:41:34 AM PST by TontoKowalski
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To: Pharmboy
The main problem probably is that teaching the wars that France has been in and lost gets redundant
36 posted on 01/01/2005 8:41:52 AM PST by In veno, veritas
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To: nathanbedford
Interesting that the French embraced them, learned their languages and lived amongst them.

While speaking of our aborigines, allow me to remind all of our Freepers that during the RevWar the only Algonquin tribe to stand with the patriots were the Oneidas. Please always support them.

37 posted on 01/01/2005 8:42:28 AM PST by Pharmboy (Listen...you can still hear the old media sobbing.)
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To: nathanbedford
How else would you regard treacherous stone age aborigines who engaged in terroristic murder, torture and cannibalism and who were in fact physically dirty?

You've chosen your screen name well.

38 posted on 01/01/2005 8:43:18 AM PST by wtc911 ("I would like at least to know his name.")
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To: DaughterOfAnIwoJimaVet

Thanks for the ping!


39 posted on 01/01/2005 8:46:49 AM PST by Chad Fairbanks (I'd like to find your inner child and kick its little ass)
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To: TontoKowalski
This stuff is fascinating.

The Brits made New York their base of operations during the F&I war. This brought great prosperity to this growing North American port city. When the war ended and they pulled out in 1763, the city experienced a depression which directly led to events culminating in the American Revolution.

Certainly, Boston was the RevWar city from 1770 on, but from 1765-1770, the Sons of Liberty and Revolutionary activity centered in NYC.

40 posted on 01/01/2005 8:49:03 AM PST by Pharmboy (Listen...you can still hear the old media sobbing.)
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To: Tacis

Glad you picked up on that subtlety..many others would not have...


41 posted on 01/01/2005 8:49:44 AM PST by Pharmboy (Listen...you can still hear the old media sobbing.)
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To: Restorer

Oh, Please, point me to where the English did anything that resembled the slaughter the Indians did.

The Indians came into towns outnumbering the Whites 200 to one, took little children and swung their heads into trees, scalped women and children.

The English only did these things in response. The English did their best to live with the same Indians who were trying to slaughter the whites.

Look up INCIDENTS IN THE EARLY HISTORY OF NEW ENGLAND or TRUMBULL'S HISTORY or WOLCOTTS HISTORY

You need to read more! :)


42 posted on 01/01/2005 8:50:48 AM PST by RaceBannon (Jesus: Born of the Jews, through the Jews, for the sins of the World!)
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To: Pharmboy

BTTT


43 posted on 01/01/2005 8:52:25 AM PST by Fiddlstix (This Tagline for sale. (Presented by TagLines R US))
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To: Pharmboy

It would be PG-13 or R, and many people would just not like what they saw.

What most people refuse to face is that the wars back then were based on religion.

And that is exactly what this war was about.


44 posted on 01/01/2005 8:53:55 AM PST by RaceBannon (Jesus: Born of the Jews, through the Jews, for the sins of the World!)
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To: mark502inf
Great post; I've always enjoyed history. The French & Indian War is little known even in the upstate NY, Ohio Valley & Great Lakes areas where it was fought; Washington's role was probably more central to this conflict than anyone else of his age--and that in turn gave him the military knowledge and leadership experience he used to bring victory in the Revolutionary War.

I know here in the Pittsburgh area, we were one of the central areas of the French and Indian War. I think I have the July 1976 issue of National Geographic that tells of George Washington's experiences here in the 1750's IIRC. WE have a town named Braddock and a road near me named Brodhead, IIRC, they were both British generals in that war.
45 posted on 01/01/2005 8:54:00 AM PST by Nowhere Man (We have enough youth, how about a Fountain of Smart?)
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To: Rodney King

That was my first thought also.


46 posted on 01/01/2005 8:56:51 AM PST by fish hawk
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To: Pharmboy
Interesting that the French embraced them, learned their languages and lived amongst them.

There is a movie called "Black Robe" in which a French priest travels with some Indians to a mission in the wilderness. Relationships between the natives and Europeans were complex. It was brought up that the Indians would trade captured Frenchmen to the English or Dutch for weapons. In turn I would guess that the English and Dutch would sell the French back to France.

It seemed the the church had good intention's but it was the Indians destiny to lose the New World to the Europeans due to lack of technology and old hatreds between tribes.

Same old story throughout mankind's history.

47 posted on 01/01/2005 8:59:59 AM PST by Missouri
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To: Pharmboy
It certainly is fascinating. I've been teaching my son that history isn't made by men who were born great, but by men who became great. And that everything in Nation's past has led us to the point we are today.

Our history lessons reminded me that the French and Indian War opened the Ohio Valley to greater British settlement, planting the seeds for Eminent Domain, and it gave the very inexperienced Colonials an opportunity to earn their stripes prior to the Revolution.

Washington became a Colonial hero because of the F/I War, and that fame helped cement his selection to lead the Patriot Army. I'm really enjoying 4th Grade History!

BTW, I enjoyed your story of visiting Mount Vernon on Christmas Day. Our family tradition is to visit the Smithsonian Museums and other Mall attractions on Christmas Eve. It's the best time to go. Very little traffic and minor crowds.

Have you been to the new Smithsonian Museum of the American Indian? It is a beautiful building, gorgeous architecture, but disappointing exhibits. I'd like a lot more on Native American history and traditions and a lot less of "Modern Artists who just happen to be Indians."

48 posted on 01/01/2005 9:02:45 AM PST by TontoKowalski
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To: Pharmboy

The birth of the US Army Rangers traces right back to Rodgers Rangers in this war. The precepts he devised are the basis for Ranger tactics still.


49 posted on 01/01/2005 9:03:21 AM PST by wtc911 ("I would like at least to know his name.")
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To: TontoKowalski
We homeschool, and this is covered in the 4th grade curriculum. I frankly admit my shame at discovering just how much I had forgotten about this important part of our history.

We're transitioning to the American Revolution now, and I find I'm re-learning some of that, too.


I feel the same way when I read these threads. In 1976, I was in third grade and the BiCentennial was in swing and I remember learning a lot about the American Revolution although we covered some of the French-Indian War with George Washington's involvement in it and so on. I later turned 10 on July 8th of that year, during the height of the celebrations but these discussions do take me back. 1976 was a horrible year family-wise, parents got divorced so the BiCentennial and the history was like a buffer against it to take my mind off my personal troubles.
50 posted on 01/01/2005 9:03:26 AM PST by Nowhere Man (We have enough youth, how about a Fountain of Smart?)
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