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No, It Wasn't French vs. Indians
The New York Times ^ | January 1, 2005 | GLENN COLLINS

Posted on 01/01/2005 6:44:12 AM PST by Pharmboy

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To: woofer
Battle of San Carlos

Yes, I've read about it. The British attacked St. Louis which was Spanish territory then and were repulsed.

Not much of a battle compared to Yorktown or Bunker Hill.

101 posted on 01/01/2005 12:24:08 PM PST by Missouri
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To: Pharmboy

OK, I will when in the vicinity, although Syracuse is not my favorite place (in fact the whole state is not either)

102 posted on 01/01/2005 12:35:33 PM PST by Paulus Invictus ( No soy anti-inmigrante! Soy anti-inmigrante ilegal!)
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To: Pharmboy
I hadn't heard of the town of Fonda before but I will check with my father to see what he knows of the town. Dad has been making a genealogical study of our family history. You might have put us on the trail of another ancestor.
103 posted on 01/01/2005 12:39:49 PM PST by redheadtoo
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To: mewzilla
They've done a wonderful job with the restoration of Fort Ticonderoga.
It's well worth a visit.

My parents made a point of taking the family there when we made a long
road trip from Oklahoma to visit relatives in Montreal.

Definitely a MUST-SEE for the kids (of all ages) if they get in the vicinity.
104 posted on 01/01/2005 12:46:32 PM PST by VOA
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To: nathanbedford
I am unfamiliar with incidents of the Iroquois engaging in cannibalism against European settlers, most history books note that particular ritualistic practice ended with their forming the Five Nations Confederacy circa 1570.

-btw Are you familiar with the term 'Drawing and Quartering' ? It was quite popular in Europe around the same time period, as was the practice of placing heads on spikes, and burning folks at the stake.


105 posted on 01/01/2005 1:02:14 PM PST by mac_truck (Aide toi et dieu l’aidera)
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To: mac_truck
temple steps to be consumed by the congregation. Over several centuries, French and English explorers and missionaries wrote a steady volume of literature concerning first accounts of Eastern United States Indians and their cannibalistic practices. Most noted for their savagery were the Iroquois and related tribes, who tortured, killed and ate large numbers of their captives. In the Mohawk language, "Iroquois" translates as "eaters of men." In some of these chilling accounts, people were literally eaten alive. In a letter dated August 25, 1682, Father Jean De Lamberville recounts: "The great success that God is pleased to grant to the weapons of the Iroquois makes them very proud, brave and enterprising. Last year they brought 700 Illinois captives all of whom they keep alive. They killed and ate over 600 others on the spot, without counting those whom they burned along the road. They saved the children who could live without the milk of their mothers whom they had killed; but the others were cruelly roasted and devoured. It is related that they tied living men and women to stakes, and, as fast as their flesh became roasted, they cut it off, and ate it." This was not an exceptional report but one of many mentioning cannibalism, a common practice for the time. Many of the missionaries were in the New World expressly to baptize the captives (and thus collect their souls) before they were killed and eaten. Large numbers of these European clergy died in this effort, as the Indians killed them as wantonly as their neighbors. Happy New Year
106 posted on 01/01/2005 1:36:51 PM PST by nathanbedford
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To: redheadtoo

And, it's not that far from Schenectady.

107 posted on 01/01/2005 1:38:43 PM PST by Pharmboy ( can still hear the old media sobbing.)
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To: Paulus Invictus
Those are red counties...just the cities are blue-land. I lived upstate NY for 8 years...plenty of good people.

And, good luck at the casinos. Even though the Oneidas were (and are) our friends, I don't mind if you take some of their coin...

108 posted on 01/01/2005 1:43:42 PM PST by Pharmboy ( can still hear the old media sobbing.)
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To: mrsmith
The French were indeed the first enemy of the United States (not counting the indians). Under the Adams administration we fought what was called the "Quasi War" against them for authorizing privateers against our shipping.

And let's not forget "The XYZ Affair", also under President Adams. When the American deligation to France was told, in increasingly less and less uncertain terms that if they wanted any business started/continued/concluded the Americans had better wake up and pony-up more than a few,er, "inducements".

109 posted on 01/01/2005 1:49:14 PM PST by yankeedame
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To: Pharmboy

Wasn't the old film "Drums Along the Mohawk" (when I lived in Utica, NY they would have special showings) set in that period, not to mention "Last of the Mohicans"? It was indeed completely pivotal to English speaking America becoming more than a North American version of Chile, and for a host of reasons the "Seven Years War", "French and Indian War", or whatever anyone wants to call it led directly to our Revolution.

110 posted on 01/01/2005 1:54:37 PM PST by katana (Don't make homely babies with homely women. Drink responsibly.)
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To: Missouri
It seemed the the church had good intention's but it was the Indians destiny to lose the New World to the Europeans due to lack of technology and old hatreds between tribes.

The same is true of the British Raj in India as well: Better technology and ancient, deep rooted hatred between not only tribes/princelings, but between religious groups as well.

111 posted on 01/01/2005 1:56:19 PM PST by yankeedame
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To: TontoKowalski
...planting the seeds for Eminent Domain...

Eminent domain?? Did you mean Manifest Destiny or, perhaps, The Monroe Doctrine?

112 posted on 01/01/2005 2:00:09 PM PST by yankeedame ("Oh, I can take it but I'd much rather dish it out.")
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To: nathanbedford
" This was the ultimate punishment available in English law for men who had been convicted of High Treason. Women were burned at the stake instead, apparently for the sake of decency.

The full sentence passed upon those convicted of High Treason up to 1870 was as follows: That you be drawn on a hurdle to the place of execution where you shall be hanged by the neck and being alive cut down, your privy members shall be cut off and your bowels taken out and burned before you, your head severed from your body and your body divided into four quarters to be disposed of at the King’s pleasure.” So not for the feint hearted then!!

As you will see from the sentence it should properly be called drawing, hanging and quartering as the condemned was drawn to the place of execution tied to the hurdle which was dragged by a horse. This is confirmed by contemporary law books. Drawing does not refer to the removal of the intestines in this context and remained part of the sentence for High Treason long after the disemboweling and dismemberment had ceased. The hurdle was similar to a piece of fencing made from thin branches interwoven to form a panel to which the prisoner was tied to be dragged behind a horse to the place of execution. Once there, the prisoner(s) were hanged in the normal way (i.e. without a drop to ensure that the neck was not broken) but cut down whilst still conscious. The penis and testicles were cut off and the stomach was slit open. The intestines and heart were removed and burned before them. The other organs were torn out and finally the head was cut off and the body divided into four quarters. The head and quarters were parboiled to prevent them rotting too quickly and then displayed upon the city gates as a grim warning to all.

At some point in this agonising process the prisoner inevitably died of strangulation and/or haemorrhage and/or shock and damage to vital organs."

Perhaps after dismembering and filleting their prisoners the English lost their appetite to eat them.


113 posted on 01/01/2005 2:00:25 PM PST by mac_truck (Aide toi et dieu l’aidera)
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Comment #114 Removed by Moderator

To: Floyd R Turbo
I don't object to honesty. I object to blatant, disgusting bigotry, and the advocacy of genocide against an entire race of people.

Honesty is fine. Better that bigots come right out and say what's on their minds. Then no one is guessing.

Familiarize yourself with Edward Sheriff Curtis, Floyd, then come back and tell me Twain's Indian sounds anything like the culture documented in photographs by this remarkable man - whom I dare say immersed himself in American Indian culture far more than Mark Twain ever could have.

I have yet to view a Curtis photograph of a scrawny, dirty Indian holding his pants up with one hand, wearing a belt made of sardine cans.

P.S. Did you know the Iroquois developed their own constitution that influenced the content of ours?

115 posted on 01/01/2005 3:49:46 PM PST by DaughterOfAnIwoJimaVet (Governor Rossi was robbed.)
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To: DaughterOfAnIwoJimaVet

You should be used to this sort of commentary on FR. I sure am.

116 posted on 01/01/2005 3:52:47 PM PST by cyborg (
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To: cyborg

Oh, I'm used to it, my friend. I just refuse to let it go unchallenged.

117 posted on 01/01/2005 3:55:26 PM PST by DaughterOfAnIwoJimaVet (Governor Rossi was robbed.)
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To: DaughterOfAnIwoJimaVet

Yep I understand.

118 posted on 01/01/2005 3:59:04 PM PST by cyborg (
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To: Ditto

bump...i just love history.

119 posted on 01/01/2005 4:42:42 PM PST by SnarlinCubBear
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To: Pharmboy; redheadtoo
Adam Fonda had twin sons Henry Dowd Fonda and Dowd Henry Fonda

The community was named after Douw Fonda, settler who was scalped in an Indian raid

Maybe not a new ancestor but a derivative of the spelling of Dowd

Still cool just the same.

One of my early ancestors was killed by Indians in the Shenendoah. Also, a grandson of his fought at what some consider to be the first battle of the Revolution at Point Pleasant, VA (WV) against them in 1774.

The story is that this group of indians, lead by Chief Cornstalk, were sponsored by the Tory Gov. of VA, Dunmore, to take on the Virginia colonists. Dunmore and the colonist General Lewis, lead two columns up toward the Ohio to engage the Indians. At some point, the columns split-up with Dunmore taking a northern route.

Sometime after this, Lewis discovered that Dunmore was meeting with Cornstalk, ostensibly to hammer out a treaty.

Gen Lewis smelled a rat and disobeying Dunmore's orders to stand fast, advanced his column. At Point Pleasant they were attacked by Cornstalk's force.

Lewis' men won the battle. Supposedly, if they had not, then VA would have spent the Revolutionary War tied-up on her western frontier with Inidan attacks and thus unable to contribute troops to fight the British in the east.

120 posted on 01/01/2005 5:36:29 PM PST by VeniVidiVici (Got Wood?)
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