Posted on 01/06/2005 8:06:04 AM PST by Happy2BMe
US seeks to buy ammunition from Taiwan as stocks run low after Iraq: report
(AFP)
6 January 2005
TAIPEI - The United States is planning to buy hundreds of millions of bullets from Taiwan in the first such deal as its supplies are running low after wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, a report said Thursday.
Citing Taiwanese military sources, the United Evening News said Washington had made the request to acquire some 300 million 5.56-millimeter bullets for rifles for an estimated two billion Taiwan dollars (62.5 million US).
The deal was yet to be finalized pending price negotiations, it said.
An unnamed general quoted by the paper said it would be the first time for Washington, Taiwan’s leading arms supplier, to acquire arms from the island.
In line with its usual practice, Taiwan’s defense ministry declined to comment on the report.
Taiwan produces some 400 million such bullets annually, according to the paper. It added most rifle bullets were manufactured by an arsenal in southern Kaohsiung which has storage problems due to declining demand in the absence of any military conflict across the Taiwan Strait.
The paper also said Taiwan had exported T-91 rifles to several countries in Southeast Asia, the Middle East and Eastern Europe.
Washington Wednesday agreed to sell air-to-ground Hellfire missiles worth 50 million US dollars to Taiwan to help the island defend itself against threats from rival China.
“The US Army has executed a letter of agreement with Taiwan, setting the stage for the sale of more than 400 AGM-114M blast-fragmentation Hellfire rounds under a foreign military sales contract,” US defense giant Lockheed Martin Corporation said.
It would take the company about six months to make the Hellfire missiles ordered by Taiwan.
The missiles will be mounted on Taiwan’s Super Cobra AH-1W attack and OH-58D Kiowa Warrior scout helicopters.
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Have we done this in the past? I don't like the message it sends of the U.S. having to backfill something as basic as a field round in an emergency buy from a foreign source.
(Outsourcing bullets now, are we?)
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"The United States is planning to buy hundreds of millions of bullets from Taiwan in the first such deal as its supplies are running low after wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, a report said Thursday."
Another KLINTOON legacy.
This disturbs me. If we have to rely on foreign manufacturers for basic munitions like these, then there's something wrong.
I strongly believe that manufacture of munitions used by the US Military should be strictly limited to US companies and manufactured within our own borders.
I think there's way too much risk in relying on foreign manufacture of these goods.
It's the Pentagon looking for a way to give Taiwain more money.
There wouldn't be a shortage if our AR-15's weren't on a list
they shouldn't have been on.
Have you got any links to that hunch?
Perhaps. Also sends a message to China about our continued military relationship with Taipei. Right now Beijing is laying a lot of threats and pressure on re. it's anti-secessionist law, aimed primarily at stopping Taiwan from declaring independence or going 'too far' in its new constitution.
I hope that's the main reason for doing this.
(We should be in the position of being able to supplement Tiawan - NOT THE REVERSE!)
Welcome to the service economy world where even what's left of our manufacturing companies can't get it done.
You couldn't be serious.
Agreed.
Don't watch what the State Department says. Watch what we DO.
In essence, we're swapping Hellfire missiles - good for use against Chinese amphibious craft and merchant vessels - for the ammo rounds. And it frees up the storage space issues the Taiwanese were having.
Just being a little sarcastic.
Maybe they should get their ammo where I get mine:
www.cheaperthandirt.com
If it was that simple the US ammo manufacturers would be screaming out loud!
Everyday, more and more, I am for bringing all our troops home., but then I want to replace 98% of Congress and the Senate too, so I don't know just what's happening.
I do know America is going to Hell in a handbasket.....that was made in Rwhanda as part of some globalistic plan to help an international corporation headquartered in Poland or Italy.
The Lake City Army Ammunition Plant in Independence MO is operated by Alliant Tech Systems (ATK) and they are the only contracted domestic provider of the 5.56MM munitions. They have done a lot in the last several years to increase their production to 150-250% of past production. The problem is, as was alluded in an earlier post, we cannot stockpile right now. This is JIT inventory based on our current situation. Thanks, Clinton administration for your foresight, or lack thereof.
I heard from my brothers friend who knew some guys uncle who had read from an "undisclosed source" that this is not true!
What do you think? :)
Red6
No, we just don't have the manufacturing capacity. As a business, it's about as popular as nuclear power or oil refining.
Are we buying bullets or ammunition?
"What part of shortage do you not understand?"
Well, yes, in case we have a problem. But Taiwan has just agreed to buy a lot of Hellfire missiles from us, over opposition from the [opposition party] KMT in Taipei, so this might be a way to sweeten the deal and keep Taiwan up against China.
But if there's a real shortage [and if that thread about a 'broken reserve' is true] then this is a bad news day for preparedness.
When our Military smashed the Iraqis in 3 weeks Newsweek wrote about "Clintons Army".
When we have a lack of up-armored HMMWVs it's Rumsfelds fault.
But the media has no pro liberal bias. The media says so itself. :)
Red6
Shortage just means we have 3 billion bullets instead of 3.5 billion. Just like we currently have a shortage on the Draft Boards. Nothing to be overly concerned about as far as military ops are concerned.
"Thanks, Clinton administration for your foresight, or lack thereof."
We've had plenty of time to recover from Clinton. It's been 3.5 years since 9-11 and we've spent billions on this war in Iraq so that we can now import Chinese munitions? It's ridiculous. The American manufacturing sector responded to WWII (led by that worthless, overrated Socialist FDR) faster than we have to the WOT today. Continuing to blame Clinton, rather than holding the current Administration's feet to the fire, won't solve anything.
BUMP
Why?
Because it is a REPEAT!
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| Ammunition Shortage Not A Threat To Readiness, Colonel Says |
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| Posted by LavaDog On News/Activism 05/24/2001 6:41:40 AM PDT Army Times | May 28, 2001 | Matthew Cox Army Times May 28, 2001 Pg. 10 Ammunition Shortage Not A Threat To Readiness, Colonel Says By Matthew Cox, Times staff writer The Army’s top ammunition official downplayed recent concerns over bullet shortages, maintaining the problem is too small to threaten readiness. Alarm bells sounded in Congress recently when House Armed Services Committee member Rep. Roscoe Bartlett, R-Md., introduced a bill to stop the Army’s black beret plan until it solved a $3 billion ammunition shortage. But Col. (P) Vincent Boles, deputy chief of staff for ammunition at Army Materiel Command, characterized that figure as the Army’s estimated ammunition requirements ... |
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:)
In 97 I did a Demo class at Benning. We were using TNT from the Korean war. In the First Gulf War in 91 we did NOT deplete our whole supply of Vietnam era bombs. Unless we are doing a lot of shooting of 556 (which we really are not) why would there be a shortage in the first place?
Why are we increasing STRAC, shooting all we want practically even in those non-deployed units if there was such a shortage? Would we not give the ammo to the units that needs it?
Frankly, this article could be true, but the whole issue is perplexing since our national capacity is way more than anything we are using. There is no doubt that we can make WAY more ammo than what we are consuming.
Red6
In which case names need to be dragged up as to why this situation wasn't rectified over the last 3 years, especially since we started a shooting war in the interim. I'll bet the military has more than enough of the glamor items, it's just the little things, like bullets, that they lack.
Don't know if you remember but in the waning years of the Clinton administration there was a shortage of 9mm, which they solved by reducing training.
There is a shortage but it's with an asterisk. Just like saying Bush is trying to backfill the Draft Boards. We're short bullets because we're supposed to have 20 times what we'll possibly ever need on hand and instead we have only 18 times what we'll possibly ever need.
If the Russians cross the Beiring straight we'll still have plenty or rounds to shoot them with. Nothing to get hysterical over.
Any comment?
Check out the news room, then the cool products page
I think that purchasing ammo from Taiwan is a sign that this administration views the Iraq deployment as temporary. If they didn't, there'd be a further expansion of ammo production here in the US.
This is a REPEAT.
When are we going to read:
"Don't shoot unless you are sure you will have a solid hit!", the squad commander said.
Oh, thanks to our wonderful Bill and Al and their reinventing of government and cutting the government (read that Military), we don't have the manufacturing capacity.
Posted on 01/12/2004 12:10:32 PM CST by John Jorsett
The U.S. Army produces or procures 350 different types of munitions (bombs, bullets, grenades, rockets and so on.) Currently, it has shortages in 25 of those items, the most noticeable being fragmentation grenades and blank ammo for the M-16 rifle and SAW light machine-gun. The Department of Defense produces all of its small arms ammunition at one factory, in Lake City, Missouri (the largest plant for 5.56mm-20mm ammo in the world). But this facility is now running 24/7 and Congress is under pressure re-open older, smaller, mothballed plants.
The Lake City plant can produce over a billion cartridges (mostly various types of 5.56mm ammo) a year, so why the shortages? A large part of it has to do with troops getting ready for duty in Iraq. This involves a lot of infantry training, and that requires a lot of blank 5.56mm ammunition.
There was apparently a lack of coordination between the people in the Pentagon deciding to greatly expand infantry training, but no one told the Joint Munitions Command so that production of munitions used in training could be increased.
This sort of thing was not a problem during the Cold War, when there were always large "war reserve stocks" of ammunition. This was necessary because the main threat was the Warsaw Pact (the Soviet Union and it's East European allies) that threatened to invade Western Europe. A war there would last a while and require huge quantities of ammo to keep the troops supplied while munitions plants increased production. So thousands of tons of ammunition was always kept in stockpiles.
But this ammo would degrade with age. Thus every year there were large quantities of "use it or lose it" ammo reaching the point where you either fired it off or recycled it.
Once the Cold War ended, so did the need for the large war reserve stocks of ammo. Billions of dollars a year could be saved by sharply reducing the war reserve stocks, and that was what happened. Unfortunately, there were some miscalculations in doing that, and there have been periodic shortages of 5.56mm ammo over the last few years.
No one at the Pentagon will give a straight answer as to why this is happening, but whatever planning system they are using, it needs a little tweaking.
ATI looks legit enough to me.
Bush Economic Polices Threaten National Security
Saving the U.S. Defense Industrial Base
I believe that the urban environment soaks up a lot more 5.56 than the manuever environment does.
:)
Agreed.
Red6
Right...lets fight them here in our own country! Let's let them come in and start doing to our women and children and elderly what they do to the Israeli women, children and elderly!
Man, you are a friggin' genius!
The reality of it is we just plain screwed up on a basic 'meat and potatoes' supply as essential as breathing air to a soldier in battle.
Good thing I'm not in charge.
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There was apparently a lack of coordination between the people in the Pentagon deciding to greatly expand infantry training, but no one told the Joint Munitions Command so that production of munitions used in training could be increased.
If you want to get your panties all bunched up over something them put out.
Go right ahead.
Apparently you didn't follow the link I'd posted.If it was a really big problem,The contract award to ATK would have been a lot larger.
(From your bottom link.)
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"I thought the Marine One competition is an odd choice for opening a debate on “Buy American” provisions. Both teams have international components, but both also promise to keep 90% of money spent on the project in the United States. This is an important consideration: When the government takes money out of the American private sector through taxation, it should return it to the American private sector when it spends the money. Whichever team wins, most of the production work is slated for Texas. The pressure both teams have been under to meet “Buy American” standards is a proper use of America´s near monopsony market power. This is especially true in regard to forcing Sikorsky to bring home its production of horizontal stabilizers and tail rotor supports, which it has outsourced to the People´s Republic of China."
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The 'Buy American' Program needs fixing too. Do you recall at the outset of Iraqi Freedom the little hidden gem that a large portion of hydraulics used in U.S. fighter and military cargo aircraft are made in France?
It may be the real issue here is Taiwan cutting off the importation of U.S. apples. The U.S. may be buying something from Taiwan so that Taiwan will allow apples in.
If the apple issue doesn't get settled, other fruits and vegetable exports may be affected.
Well,
Fact is most of our soldiers in Iraq arrive with 210 rounds and leave with 210 rounds without ever needing to replace expended ammo.
It's not WW2! :)
The average soldier expends more on yearly range qual than he ever will in Iraq.
Our capacity is WAY up there if we want to pump that out. I think Bogey780 is dead on. If we are buying ammo then it’s because we have other interests at work where this is part of a bigger deal. We are not seeing the whole picture here.
Red6
My main point was that American Media love to distort the truth,And the Foreign Media is even more anti-American.
Especially if you were a soldier running out of ammunition.
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