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High School Equivalency Exam
World Wide Web Links | 1/6/05 | Kevin O'Malley

Posted on 01/06/2005 7:58:45 PM PST by Kevin OMalley

I've been getting asked more and more about my position that high school is a waste of time and my recommendation for parents to give their children a choice to skip high school. This is in response to the liberal agendas now prevalent in high schools as well as the simple fact that such a strategy would give kids a 4 year head start on their peers. Below are some useful links for investigating this option. I will repost my own experience under that.

http://parents.berkeley.edu/advice/school/equivexam.html

UCB Parents Advice about School Taking the High School Equivalency Exam Advice and recommendations from the UCB Parents mailing list. This page is brought to you by UC Berkeley Parents Network Back to: Advice about School & Preschool --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

How does GED differ from CHSPE? What's an R-4 Affadavit? 16-year-old wants to drop out & take the GED

http://www.cde.ca.gov/ta/tg/sp/documents/faq.pdf

California High School Proficiency Exam (CHSPE) Frequently Asked Questions — FAQs

http://www.hsc.org/chaos/teens/tests.php

Tests (CHSPE and GED) By Wes Beach Tests provide a limited means of measuring test-taking ability and maybe other things. Don't let them be any kind of measure of who your kids are. They can, however, serve important practical purposes such as high school completion or college admissions and credit.

There are two tests by means of which to earn a high-school-diploma-equivalent certificate: the California High School Proficiency Examination (CHSPE) and the General Educational Development (GED). The CHSPE has a narrower focus and tests skills and knowledge in reading, math, writing, and language. The GED includes these areas and also tests in science and social studies. Opinions vary about which test is more difficult, and different perceptions probably arise from kids with different strengths. The GED is more widely known and may be more readily accepted, although it is a myth that the CHSPE Certificate is unacceptable outside California.

In California (different states have different rules), anyone 18 or older can take the GED, and there are exceptions for somewhat younger people under some circumstances. It is administered by adult education schools in public school districts and is offered frequently. Contact your local adult school for information on the GED or call the GED Office at the California Department of Education at (800) 331-6316.

The CHSPE may be taken by anyone who, on the day of the exam, is 16 or older, or has finished the tenth grade, or is enrolled in the second semester of the tenth grade. This exam is offered two or three times a year at test sites throughout the state. CHSPE information bulletins can be found at high schools and libraries or at http://www.chspe.net/. For questions not answered in the bulletin, call (866) 342-4773. There is a great deal of misinformation about the CHSPE floating around, especially within the public schools. Check the official bulletin to confirm anything you hear. A student who passes the CHSPE still has the right to attend public high school if desired.

If a CHSPE or GED certificate is to be used for admission to college, entering the military, specific job requirements, etc., be sure to check at the source (the colleges, the military, the employer, etc.) regarding their policies.

Preparation books for these exams can be found in bookstores and libraries.

The College Board/Educational Testing Service offers a number of exams that can support college admission and/or can lead to college credit:

The PSAT, a shortened version of SAT I, is usually taken by high school juniors. If a student is in high school at the time he takes this test, he is automatically entered into the National Merit Scholarship competition. The PSAT is administered by high schools on their campuses; non-enrolled students may be allowed to take the test. Contact local high schools. SAT I (possibly along with SAT II) may be required for admission to four-year colleges and universities. There are two parts to SAT I: verbal—analogies, sentence completions, and critical reading questions—and math at the high school college preparatory level. The SAT's (I & II) are given at test sites throughout the state; sites are listed in the application booklet (see below). SAT II is a set of separate tests on high school subjects—world history, chemistry, French, etc. Advanced Placement: Colleges often grant credit for sufficiently high scores on AP exams. These exams are final exams in college-level classes taught in high school and are given at high schools at the end of the courses; students who have not taken the courses may be allowed to take the exams. Colleges also grant credit for good scores on CLEP exams. These exams are generally easier than AP exams, are given at test centers throughout the state, and cover the content of more than thirty college-level courses. ACT (formerly American College Testing) offers the ACT, a somewhat broader college admission test that colleges may use instead of or in addition to the SAT. The ACT consists of four sections: English, math, reading, and science. Even when SAT/ACT scores aren't required, they provide one way (there are others) to demonstrate academic ability and acquired knowledge in the absence of a traditional transcript. It may be possible to gain admission to the schools your kids choose through testing alone, and impressive test scores always add strength to a college application. Just as in the case with the SAT/ACT, good scores on AP and/or CLEP exams can support a college application. Check carefully with colleges of interest for their policies regarding credit. Classes that prepare students for these tests may be offered by high schools, adult schools, community colleges, and private companies.

Guides and preparation materials can be found in libraries and bookstores. Explanatory and application materials from the College Board and ACT can be found at high schools, colleges, and libraries, and also can be obtained directly from the College Board at (510) 873-8000 or at http://www.collegeboard.org; SAT tests will be changing within the next few years. To keep informed of those changes, check the website http://www.collegeboard.com/about/newsat/newsat.html. Information about the ACT can be obtained at (916) 631-9200 or at http://www.act.org. Information on the GED is available at http://www.acenet.edu/calec/ged.

http://www.collegeconfidential.com/dean/archives/000064.htm

College Confidential: Does CHSPE = GED?

Question: When colleges say that they accept GEDs, what does that mean for the CHSPE? Do they accept that credential as a high school diploma? If not, what should I do?

At the California High School Proficiency Examination (CHSPE) Web site (www.cde.ca.gov/statetests/chspe) you can find an Information Bulletin and Frequently Asked Questions (FAQs) about the CHSPE. California law states that the Certificate of Proficiency provided to students who pass the CHSPE is equivalent to a high school diploma. In other words, institutions that are subject to California law and that require a high school diploma must also accept the CHSPE. (However, the Certificate of Proficiency is not equivalent to completing all course work required for regular graduation from high school.)

Therefore, if you've received the CHSPE Certificate of Proficiency, your certificate would be equivalent to a high school diploma. The Certificate of Proficiency is not equivalent to completing all course work required for regular graduation from high school in California. However--and this is a good caveat for most general college-entrance-related questions--you should always check with the admissions offices (or admissions sections of the Web sites) of those colleges to which you are considering applying. This is especially important if you're interested in colleges and universities outside of California that may not accept the CHSPE or may not even be familiar with it.


TOPICS: Culture/Society
KEYWORDS: aadegree; ab2607; advancedplacement; ap; assessment; chspe; clep; college; collegedegree; diploma; education; fire; ged; generaleducation; homeschool; homeschooling; homeschoollist; kipp; liberalagenda; lipsman; nea; proficiency; psat; pspl; publiceducation; publicschools; sat; scholasticaptitude; school; schoolisjail; schools; skiphighschool; skipschool; students; teachers; teen; voucher; wasteoftime
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To: ballet4ever0289
You should go to the local JR college, or even a regular college and talk to the counselors there (take your parent along too). They can hook you up with what you need to do, like take a GED exam or whatever is required. Most will give you an appointment, so call ahead and ask. Consider starting college, you can take all the electives you need and fulfill your college degree, and you'll have more fun with those classes anyway. You are well spoken and articulate for a 15 year old. Welcome aboard!
201 posted on 02/10/2005 1:20:01 PM PST by Indy Pendance
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To: ballet4ever0289; Max Combined

Refer to post #59. It sounds like Texas is a good state for that kind of thing. Please let us know how it turns out. Good luck.


202 posted on 02/10/2005 5:08:27 PM PST by Kevin OMalley (No, not Freeper#95235, Freeper #1165: Charter member, What Was My Login Club.)
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To: ballet4ever0289
For one thing, Texas does not have nearly so many laws of any sort as does California.

Texas does nothing to regulate home schoolers. We never had any contact with any school or state authorities during the entire time we homeschooled our daughter from third grade until she went to community college at fifteen.

Texas considers home schoolers to be a private school. There is almost no regulation on private schools either. My wife teaches at a school associated with a church now and they just teach the kids without any trouble from the state.

In your case, since you are enrolled in now high school, it seem like it would be hard for you to now claim to be homeschooled. Many high school students enroll in community college classes and get both college credits and high school credits. You might want to do that. You also might want to talk to the admissions person at the community college that you want to attend to see what your options are at this point.

In any case, you need the cooperation of your parents, so I would advise you to talk to your parents about what you want to do and see if you cannot get yourself enrolled in a college.
203 posted on 02/10/2005 5:50:34 PM PST by Max Combined (Steyn, "the Dems are all exit and no strategy.")
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To: Kevin OMalley; EdReform; latina4dubya

Interesting thread bump and ping.


204 posted on 02/10/2005 6:00:12 PM PST by scripter (Tens of thousands have left the homosexual lifestyle)
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To: Kevin OMalley; ballet4ever0289


Texas Homeschooling Laws  
by Debbie Evans ©    

If you live in Texas, you are in the BEST state in the union for homeschooling! Just turn around three times, click your heels together, and say "My homeschool is a private school."

That's right! In Texas, homeschools are considered private schools. As such, they are not regulated in any way by the state! (Did you know that Texas private schools are completely unregulated? I'd bet some families spending a lot of money on private schools would be surprised to know that.)

Texas law basically states that as long as your school doesn't take state money, then the state cannot tell you what to do with your school. Homeschools and private schools are treated the same.

The state constitution clearly designates state powers to public schools only. Therefore, homeschooling is protected by the state constitution and has always been legal and unregulated. That hasn't stopped some of the school districts from trying to impose upon homeschoolers, however. So, in 1987, a group of homeschooling families filed a lawsuit against the Arlington Independent School District. The result was a three-measure standard that makes a Texas homeschool legal. This standard was upheld by the Texas Supreme Court in 1994. So what's a Texas homeschool?

bullet Bona Fide -- Education should be occurring in a good faith manner, using a...
bullet Curriculum -- Formal or informal, from any source, including video and computer or internet-based instruction, and teaching the following...
bullet Required Subjects -- reading, spelling, grammar, math, and good citizenship (although there is no standard as to how these subjects should be taught).

That's it. There's no filing with the school district, no testing, no fees, no nothing!

The best part is that you are not required to prove that you are doing any of the above things!  Click here to read the letter from the Commissioner of Education to the Texas school districts concerning homeschooling. 

If parents are withdrawing their children from public school to teach them at home, they should "officially" withdraw the child from the school. You are not required to "get approval", sign any forms, or provide any information about your home school. 

If the school hassles you, the best response is to say, "If you will submit to me in writing what you want, I'll be glad to respond, according to state law and TEA guidelines." When (if) this request is given in writing, the parent should send a simple letter of assurance.  A sample is given below.: 

"This letter is to assure you that we have a curriculum that covers the basic areas of reading, spelling, grammar, math and a course in good citizenship. We are pursuing it in a bona fide manner. If you have any further questions please submit them to us in writing." 

Please note, that only a few schools have attempted to cause trouble for homeschooling parents. Do not go into the situation assuming you will have a difficult time. Many schools are understanding and aware of homeschooling in Texas, even if they do not necessarily agree with the choice.

You can keep as detailed or as relaxed records as you wish. If your children have college in their future, you will want to keep more detailed records for that purpose.

Speaking of older students, what about high school graduation?

Texas private schools set their own standards for graduation! That means you too. If your children plan to attend college, then take a look at what your prospective colleges require in the way of high school credits and plan accordingly. The good news is that ALL of the major colleges and universities are actively recruiting homeschoolers because they tend to do very well in college studies.

The following high school graduation plan complies with TEA standards. These are to be used as a guideline only (if you desire). For more info about homeschooling high school students, click here.

19-24 credits. Public schools base their credits on the following:
150-180 hours equals 1 credit or 1 year of study.

bullet English/Language Arts -- 4 credits
bullet Social Studies -- 3 1/2 credits
World History (1), World Geography (1), US History (since reconstruction) (1), US Government (1/2)
bullet Economics -- 1/2 credit
bullet Math -- 3 credits
Algebra 1, Algebra 2, and Geometry. If your child's major is related to a "math field" include a 4th credit of Trig, Calculus, or other advanced math.
bullet Science -- 3 credits
Biology, Chemistry, and Physics
bullet Health Education -- 1/2 credit
bullet Physical Education -- 1 1/2 credits
bullet Foreign Language -- 2 credits (level 1 and 2 of same language)
International Sign Language is now readily accepted
bullet Fine Arts -- 1 credit
bullet Speech -- 1/2 credit

BACK

205 posted on 02/10/2005 6:01:37 PM PST by Max Combined (Steyn, "the Dems are all exit and no strategy.")
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To: Kevin OMalley; ballet4ever0289

Lots more information from the site where the other information comes from:

http://www.texashomeschoolers.com/txhs.htm


206 posted on 02/10/2005 6:04:21 PM PST by Max Combined (Steyn, "the Dems are all exit and no strategy.")
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To: Kevin OMalley
In the fifties they had 3 types of GED, HS, two years college and four year college.
207 posted on 02/10/2005 6:09:03 PM PST by HuntsvilleTxVeteran (So I talk to myself, at least I am talking to a mind that is my equal)
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To: Kevin OMalley

My way to accelerate was to take enough AP courses so that I was able to get a BS and a Masters in 4 years of College.


208 posted on 03/13/2005 11:47:47 AM PST by WOSG (Liberating Iraq - http://freedomstruth.blogspot.com)
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To: Kevin OMalley

A woman who taught in my school wrote a book about her experience, titled "My Posse Don't Do Homework". It became a hit movie: "Dangerous Minds" with Michelle Pfeiffer.

----

That sounds like a curse - "may you end up in a school that is fodder for a Hollywood movie".

Hollywood would never make a movie about the modest Christian private school that ably teaches our children (in 2nd and 4th grade now) the basics in reading, writing, math, etc., Bible, in a good environment. The only thing Hollywood would find interesting is that there are children from many ethnic backgounds; ah, but almost all are from Christian homes.



209 posted on 03/13/2005 11:54:58 AM PST by WOSG (Liberating Iraq - http://freedomstruth.blogspot.com)
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To: PokerGod

Um, not quite:

Conservatives are good on issues like the death penalty and taxes and drug laws and freedom of speech issues and foreign policy and Government spending and separation of church and state and how much say the men in black should have on such matters.

Liberals are good on issues like ... dog leash laws and neighborhood recycling programs. NOTHING MORE.


210 posted on 03/13/2005 12:07:48 PM PST by WOSG (Liberating Iraq - http://freedomstruth.blogspot.com)
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To: WOSG

I'm aware of the AP path, they had some of those classes in my high school. The quality of each program varies from school to school. But it doesn't really make as much sense as outright skipping 4 years of drudgery and getting on with the real work ahead.

One kid I knew took enough courses to supposedly qualify with sophomore standing when he graduated, assuming he passed all of the challenge tests. But if he had spent 4 years working at a college level he would have had much more than sophomore standing.

If you got a Masters & Bachelors & High School in 8 years, think of what you could have accomplished if you could have started college earlier.

For a typical advanced kid, those extra 3 years of schooling are difficult to swallow, and even just looking at starting salaries (with no raises), one would be $90k ahead of one's peers at a starting salary of $30k. If half of that $90k were put into savings, the kid might have over $300k in 30 years.

http://partners.financenter.com/choosetosave/calculate/us-eng/savings02.fcs

Amount you have invested $45000
Your savings rate % 4
Additional deposits $ 10,000
Yearly
Years invested 30
Your federal tax rate 25.00 %
Your state tax rate 6.80 %
Inflation rate 3.0%

In 30 years, your investment will be worth $330,376.

That's just looking at it from the financial side. The kid would certainly also bypass 4 years worth of liberal lunacy, which is worth more than $300k in my book.


211 posted on 03/16/2005 4:57:25 PM PST by Kevin OMalley (No, not Freeper#95235, Freeper #1165: Charter member, What Was My Login Club.)
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To: Kevin OMalley

"I'm aware of the AP path, they had some of those classes in my high school. The quality of each program varies from school to school. But it doesn't really make as much sense as outright skipping 4 years of drudgery and getting on with the real work ahead. "

One way it makes sense is financially, ie, if you cant afford college. I got 26 credits, effectively a year of college, at a competitive school, and I didnt have to pay any tuition for it. My family couldnt afford to pay much for my college.

The other thing to do is to simply skip the lower grades, so you graduate younger without necessarily dropping out. e.g.
I graduated at age 17, having taken advanced calculus (BC), AP physics, AP chemisty, AP history, AP english, AP french, by then.


"If you got a Masters & Bachelors & High School in 8 years, think of what you could have accomplished if you could have started college earlier."

Doing that much was geeky enough, accelerating further might have been better financially on a spreadsheet, but it can leave you socially 'underdeveloped'. I was overloading on studies as it was and while I'm smart I'm no Steven Hawking.

Looking back, I got enough out of high school that I wouldnt want to skip them ... rather, I'd skip 8th grade.


212 posted on 03/16/2005 8:16:45 PM PST by WOSG (Liberating Iraq - http://freedomstruth.blogspot.com)
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To: WOSG

Doing that much was geeky enough, accelerating further might have been better financially on a spreadsheet, but it can leave you socially 'underdeveloped'.
***I keep hearing that and I think it's just plain untrue. Some of the source material posted in this thread directly contraverts that claim. As far as I can tell, it's an old wives' tale relied upon to keep kids in underperforming schools.


Looking back, I got enough out of high school that I wouldnt want to skip them ... rather, I'd skip 8th grade.
***I would skip that year as well. When I was told about the CHSPE, I spent 3 days thinking about it and then made my decision, and quit going to high school right then. I was in the local community college the next semester. When you look at it that way, I only willingly spent about 3 days at high school. I do feel strongly that kids should be given a choice for themselves. There's nothing more "socially developed" than a person who exercises a choice and takes on a more challenging course than the path currently provided.


213 posted on 03/17/2005 12:22:25 PM PST by Kevin OMalley (No, not Freeper#95235, Freeper #1165: Charter member, What Was My Login Club.)
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To: Max Combined

I'm struck by how much of what is required in high school is forced to be retaken in college.






19-24 credits. Public schools base their credits on the following:
150-180 hours equals 1 credit or 1 year of study. English/Language Arts -- 4 credits
***Partially building on writing skills but English is still a requirement.

Social Studies -- 3 1/2 credits
***Waste of time, required to take again in college.

World History (1), World Geography (1), US History (since reconstruction) (1), US Government (1/2)
***Waste of time, required to take again in college.

Economics -- 1/2 credit
***Interesting. I don't think that's a requirement in most colleges.

Math -- 3 credits
Algebra 1, Algebra 2, and Geometry. If your child's major is related to a "math field" include a 4th credit of Trig, Calculus, or other advanced math.
***I'm glad to see this requirement getting pushed. Many folks freak out in college when they see that Trig is going to be a requirement. I don't think this stuff is a waste of time, even though the expression is true: "you'll hardly ever use algebra in real life".


Science -- 3 credits
Biology, Chemistry, and Physics
***No waste of time here.

Health Education -- 1/2 credit
***Waste of time, required to take again in college.

Physical Education -- 1 1/2 credits
***Waste of time, required to take again in college.

Foreign Language -- 2 credits (level 1 and 2 of same language)
***One of the only things that actually counts towards credits in California. Not necessarily a waste of time.

International Sign Language is now readily accepted
***Fascinating

Fine Arts -- 1 credit
***Probably a waste of time.

Speech -- 1/2 credit
******Partially building on a skillset but speech is still a requirement in college. Certainly a strong skill to develop for career building.



By my count, that's about 7 units of credit/time wasted, more than a thousand hours that could be recouped just by taking the same courses at a college level.


214 posted on 03/17/2005 6:06:18 PM PST by Kevin OMalley (No, not Freeper#95235, Freeper #1165: Charter member, What Was My Login Club.)
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To: ladylib

From another thread:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1361554/posts?page=65#65


Good response, ladylib...



To: ladylib
"Homeschool them and let them go to college when they're 14. "
***I agree with homeschooling, but not everyone has the wherewithal to do it. What is your provision for those who can't afford it, other than the standard browbeating of parents that they don't care enough for their children? Here's an example thread:

On the 'sin' of sending kids to public school
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1362311/posts

Interestingly, your prior response in #30 contains the seeds of the conundrum that kids face today, namely that the moment they can pass the equivalency test they are wasting their time in high school.




Thread 30: "More schools are also shifting attention to the standardized testing or the Pennsylvania System of School Assessment tests."

Ladylib: I think this is the real reason. Gotta study for those high-stakes tests, and the more academic courses you take, the better you'll do.



With your permission, I'd like to copy your response over on my other thread.



64 posted on 03/17/2005 5:42:56 PM PST by Kevin OMalley (No, not Freeper#95235, Freeper #1165: Charter member, What Was My Login Club.)
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To: Kevin OMalley
"***I agree with homeschooling, but not everyone has the wherewithal to do it. What is your provision for those who can't afford it, other than the standard browbeating of parents that they don't care enough for their children?

Browbeating????!!!! How dare You! LOL!

I would never, ever browbeat or even question a parent who chooses not to homeschool their children. I would never question an educational choice -- even a relative's. Homeschooling certainly isn't for everyone. It's not for parents who are not particularly fond of their children (although they may love them, you really have to like your kids to put up with them all day), and it's not for parents who know in their hearts they would just botch it up. In fact, it's not feasible for a lot of parents for a lot of reasons. That said, I, myself, am not happy with today's public schools for any number of reasons, and I sometimes do wonder why parents are willing to send their kids to public school.

However, many parents are very happy with their children's school (some of my relatives and friends, for instance) and many students are very happy to attend them. I also have relatives and friends who think homeschooling is for people who live in the backwoods, worship with snakes, marry their cousins, and sit around the kitchen table all day. They still might not want their children to go to the local public school, however, so they're willing to pay $12,000 a year in private school tuition. Choice is great!

I think it's fantastic that kids can start college at 14 if they are bright enough and they choose to do so. Why should they be held back? Many kids today just want to move on. They don't want another four years. Why can't they go to work, apprentice, take on-line courses at their convenience, start their own businesses, or go to the vocational school of their choice? Is it because we don't want kids from 14 - 18 on the streets or taking jobs from older workers? I think that's probably it. It's all about control.

Schools are cutting recess, electives, gym, art, music -- because they think that it takes too much time from test preparation. School officials are running scared. No Child Left Behind is throwing them for a loop. Their jobs are on the line -- finally. If enough kids don't pass their high-stakes tests, that could be the end of their careers. They need those kids to pull the fat from the fire. A lot of students don't do well -- and the reason they don't do well is because they are victims of poor curriculum and teaching practices, in my opionion. The chickens have come home to roost. It's make or break time for public schools -- I give them another two or three years to figure it out because every day, there are more and more options.

You can use my response.



65 posted on 03/17/2005 7:09:02 PM PST by ladylib
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215 posted on 03/18/2005 8:32:38 AM PST by Kevin OMalley (No, not Freeper#95235, Freeper #1165: Charter member, What Was My Login Club.)
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To: Don't wanna be audited

Bill Gates has declared American high schools "obsolete."





Public education isn't preparing teens

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1367344/posts?page=22#22



The Washington Times ^ | 3-21-05 | Michael Smith


Posted on 03/21/2005 11:12:45 AM PST by JZelle


Bill Gates has declared American high schools "obsolete." In a Feb. 26 speech to the National Education Summit on High Schools, he said "our high schools — even when they're working exactly as designed — cannot teach our kids what they need to know today." These criticisms are not new, but the fact that America's most successful businessman is concerned about how America will survive in a world that requires educated workers should cause people to take notice. Mr. Gates went on to say he was "terrified for our work force of tomorrow."


(Excerpt) Read more at washingtontimes.com ...
http://www.washingtontimes.com/metro/20050320-092252-1935r.htm


216 posted on 03/22/2005 8:17:49 AM PST by Kevin OMalley (No, not Freeper#95235, Freeper #1165: Charter member, What Was My Login Club.)
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To: dawn53

Hi Dawn53:

That was a good post over at that other thread:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1399251/posts

Skipped gym class costs student diploma
Times Leader/AP Wire ^ | 5/8/2005


Posted on 05/08/2005 6:47:15 PM PDT by Born Conservative


BOW, N.H. - A decision to take Advanced Placement biology instead of gym will cost a Bow High School senior her diploma, but it won't keep her from going to college in the fall.

Though Isabel Gottlieb is a good student, a trumpet player in the school band and holds varsity letters in three sports, she discovered last fall she was one gym class shy of having enough credits to graduate next month.....


217 posted on 05/26/2005 6:09:54 PM PDT by Kevin OMalley (No, not Freeper#95235, Freeper #1165: Charter member, What Was My Login Club.)
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To: LauraleeBraswell; GovernmentShrinker

Well said on another thread:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1433891/posts?page=35#4
Voucher: Solution or Flawed Compromise ?
FEE ^ | 6/30/05 | Robert Parker



To: cinives
The answer is to require very limited testing twice a year for any student's school to receive the payment (and allow an option of only testing once a year, if the school is willing to wait a whole year to get any payment). Testing should be limited to math, reading/spelling/vocabulary/grammar, facts-only physical science, and possibly some very basic facts-only material on how government works (like the existence of federal and state senates and houses of representatives, governors, a President, etc. -- since a huge number of public school grads haven't a clue about this stuff). No room for political or religious issues, keep the tests to between 1-2 hours depending on age/grade level, and keep the questions and grading to a strictly right-or-wrong answer format. Have the tests administered at many convenient locations, administered by people who have no vested interest in the economics of the system, and who have no information about which students are attending which schools.

Set the standards to approximately the current 50th percentile of public school students, and once kids pass the twelfth grade level (even if they do it when they're 10 years old, which wouldn't be uncommon for a lot homeschooled kids), let them get their vouchers until they're 18, without any further testing. This system would allow homeschoolers, and little neighborhood private schools run by a mom or grand-dad or whoever in somebody's kitchen, to get the money for getting a minimum of the same job done that the public schools currently get done. Most would obviously do a lot more, but this would at least eliminate the need to limit vouchers to large schools which get inspected and regulated by the government, and would eliminate flat-out fraud by "home schools" or "private schools" which are doing nothing at all but pocketing the money (as is the case with a lot of federally funded adult vocational schools now).



4 posted on 06/30/2005 9:02:55 AM PDT by GovernmentShrinker
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"Set the standards to approximately the current 50th percentile of public school students, and once kids pass the twelfth grade level (even if they do it when they're 10 years old, which wouldn't be uncommon for a lot homeschooled kids), let them get their vouchers until they're 18, without any further testing."

***I agree. We have been discussing inexpensive ways to fast track kids through high school to avoid the liberal agenda and other idiocies:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1315730/posts?page=84#84

Unfortunately my thread title was not well thought out, because some parents might instinctively skip over it due to attached stigma, whether real or imagined.




20 posted on 06/30/2005 4:51:46 PM PDT by Kevin OMalley (No, not Freeper#95235, Freeper #1165: Charter member, What Was My Login Club.)





To: Kevin OMalley
Interesting approach. I think a lot of homeschoolers do essentially that. Homeschool entirely through 8th grade, and then phase in community college courses and/or individual high school courses in school districts which allow that.

Another important issue, though, is the huge numbers of kids who just shouldn't be doing high school or college academic work at the traditional age. We're spending colossal amounts of education for kids in the 14-22 age range, which is a time when most them really care about nothing that isn't driven by hormones and/or lack of life experience. Except for the small minority who are really academically self-motivated at that age, they'd be better off doing something like working at McDonald's, and maybe taking one course at a time that meets 2-3 times a week, until such time as they are serious about pursuing education.

It's a horribly common pattern in the U.S. that young people totally waste their time in high school and college, while taxpayers and parents are footing the huge bill for the illusion that they are "studying" full time. Then when they reach their mid 20s or early 30s or whenever they get a clue, they'd really like to do it all over again and get a serious education that will land them good and steady employment, but the money's all been spent and nobody's offering them a free ride anymore, now that they're really serious about studying.




21 posted on 06/30/2005 6:44:39 PM PDT by GovernmentShrinker
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218 posted on 07/14/2005 4:03:32 PM PDT by Kevin OMalley (No, not Freeper#95235, Freeper #1165: Charter member, What Was My Login Club.)
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To: Kevin OMalley

I posted this to Kevin last night and he asked me to post it on the this thread.

"My kid used the dual credit program at our local state college to fast track. So now he's entering his senior year of HS (17 years old) and completing his AA requirements this term (he needs 3 more hours) and can use the rest of the available credit hours this year (you can take 15 per term) to work toward requirements for his major. It's a wonderful program...and the fact that it's tuition free doesn't hurt. Won't need a GED, since he's homeschooled, I just have to turn in a statement that he has "graduated HS" and he will be awarded an AA at the end of this year which will technically be his sr. year in HS.

Then he can transfer to a 4 year program next year to complete his bachelors, he'll be a junior, and if he stays on track should have his bachelors about the time he turns 20. In our opinion, the good thing about this program (other than the fact that it's free tuition) is that more and more a Master's is needed to secure a good position, and by graduating college at 20, you can go ahead and attain your Masters, still graduating at the same time you would have normally been graduating from college."



219 posted on 08/22/2005 8:36:46 AM PDT by dawn53
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To: dawn53

Thanks, dawn53. You were the 3rd one to respond to this thread! I'm so glad for your son. Hopefully more will find encouragement in his story.


220 posted on 08/22/2005 9:02:26 AM PDT by Kevin OMalley (No, not Freeper#95235, Freeper #1165: Charter member, What Was My Login Club.)
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To: Kevin OMalley

ping


221 posted on 12/27/2006 10:00:41 PM PST by wintertime (Good ideas win! Why? Because people are not stupid)
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To: Kevin OMalley
I've been getting asked more and more about my position that high school is a waste of time and my recommendation for parents to give their children a choice to skip high school.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

My own homeschooled children were admitted to college at the ages of 13, 12, and 13. Two had B.S. degrees in math at the age of 18. The oldest of these two recently finished a masters in math at the age of 20.

Brigham Young University has an excellent high school courses that are fully accredited, but the university does not award a diploma. My grand daughter is using it now.

My own children had to be certified as gifted and talented prior before our community college would admit them. This meant that I had to pay $400 each to have a psychologist administer an intelligence test. I took the results to the government school, which then arranged to have the children admitted to the college.

My children did fine, but please remember, that until about age 16 they had little to do with the social life at either the community college or the universities and colleges they later attended.

By the way, the oldest is a highly ranked athlete. He chose to study accounting since it meshed better with his heavy travel and training schedule. He also took off two years to complete a church mission at the age of 19. ( Returned home fluent in Russian) Despite all of this, he will finish his B.S. in accounting at the same age as his contemporaries.
222 posted on 12/28/2006 5:47:13 AM PST by wintertime (Good ideas win! Why? Because people are not stupid)
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To: wintertime

I was going to post your example on this thread, but I see you beat me to it.

Interesting discussion regarding NEA's proposals...

NEA's Plan for Reducing School Dropouts/ Slavery for 18 to 21 year olds

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1759212/posts?page=191


223 posted on 12/28/2006 10:03:15 AM PST by Kevmo (Darn, if only I had signed up 4 days earlier, I'd have a 3-digit Freeper #)
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To: Kevin OMalley

My husband dropped out of high school, and took his GED. He lived and worked on his own, and decided he needed to go to college. He put himself through, starting first with a community college and Cal Poly.

Now, he is the director of software engineering for firm in the Silicon Valley.


224 posted on 02/10/2007 10:54:16 PM PST by luckystarmom
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To: yarddog

Back in the early 80s at Texas A&M, many of our professors were foreign. Some had such thick accents, I couldn't understand a thing. I was first a Chemical Engineering major, and it was full of foreign profs. Then I switched to Computer Science, and it didn't have many foreign profs. I also did much better in Computer Science.


225 posted on 02/10/2007 10:59:03 PM PST by luckystarmom
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To: Kevin OMalley

ping


226 posted on 02/15/2007 5:10:50 AM PST by wintertime
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To: Kevin OMalley

ping


227 posted on 02/15/2007 5:10:52 AM PST by wintertime
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To: Kevmo; nmh

Exchange posted on another thread regarding fast tracking:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1785156/posts

Public school lawyers say parents have no say if public schools teach homosexuality
World Net Daily ^ | Feb. 14, 2007


Posted on 02/14/2007 10:26:32 PM PST by SeasideSparrow





To: Kevmo
What you should demand are VOUCHERS.

WHY subsidize this ****?

Fast tracking is all fine and good but you are PAYING for this ****? Stop FUNDING IT!



66 posted on 02/15/2007 12:30:02 PM PST by nmh (Intelligent people recognize Intelligent Design (God) .)
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228 posted on 02/15/2007 11:58:32 PM PST by Kevmo (The first labor of Huntercles: Defeating the 3-headed RINO)
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To: nmh

What you should demand are VOUCHERS.
***We already covered vouchers earlier in the thread. They're as neat as velcro, but not every high school kid can exercise that option TODAY. This fast tracking option can be done by almost any motivated high schooler TODAY at a low budget, to boot.


WHY subsidize this ****?
***Well, first of all, by "subsidize this ****", do you mean to replace some swear word, as in subsidize this filth? Or is it some kind of new punctuation scheme? So the question I'll answer is, "why subsidize this?" The answer is patently obvious once you look through the thread, and that is that it DOES NOT subsidize any further funding into education for the child, and in particular if a child opts out of high school, that school would LOSE its funding.

Fast tracking is all fine and good but you are PAYING for this ****? Stop FUNDING IT!
***OK, so again with the 4 star**** thingie, which I find confusing. Thanks for pointing out that fast tracking is all fine. I would urge you to read through the material because you would come to the conclusion that if a large percentage of kids were to take advantage of this approach, schools would soon see a dramatic decrease in funding. So we are NOT paying for this ****. If you really want to stop funding it, consider the fast tracking alternative as one of the means for accomplishing your goals.


229 posted on 02/16/2007 12:06:49 AM PST by Kevmo (The first labor of Huntercles: Defeating the 3-headed RINO)
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To: dawn53

My son also skipped H.S., got his GED and then went on to Community College and earned his AA Degree (On the Dean's List) a year before he would have graduated from H.S.
Personally, I had a blast in H.S. but those were the "Glory Days" of Public Schools. The schools were safe, pleasant and delivered an excellent education for the most part. The things I liked were cruisin' in my Chev. Conv. and a chasin' girls, girls, girls!


230 posted on 02/16/2007 12:14:49 AM PST by BnBlFlag (Deo Vindice/Semper Fidelis "Ya gotta saddle up your boys; Ya gotta draw a hard line")
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To: Kevin OMalley

Lots of kids here take AP classes in their junior and seniro years (some sophomore). They can then start college with all the Freshman courses out of the way and begin with the standing of a sophomore. I recently read of one local kid who graduated from UVA (no slouch school) after a little more than a year thanks to all his AP credits.

On the other hand, it was a public high school teacher who recommended one of my sons just go straight for his GED when he was in 9th or 10th grade.

The right path will differ from student to student.


231 posted on 02/16/2007 12:33:19 AM PST by EDINVA
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To: BnBlFlag

Things are different now.


232 posted on 02/16/2007 1:17:52 PM PST by Kevmo (The first labor of Huntercles: Defeating the 3-headed RINO)
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To: Kevmo

"Things are different now".

Tell me about it!


233 posted on 02/16/2007 5:03:03 PM PST by BnBlFlag (Deo Vindice/Semper Fidelis "Ya gotta saddle up your boys; Ya gotta draw a hard line")
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To: DaveLoneRanger; All

Good article about CLEPs on another thread, looks like they could really help with this program.

CLEPs - One Homeschool Senior’s Experience
Home Educator’s Family Times ^ | July 17, 2007 | Lydia Rule
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/1868184/posts

Posted on 07/18/2007 8:09:27 PM PDT by DaveLoneRanger

CLEPs may sound too good to be true, folks, but I’ve taken two of them so far and am working on a third. The credit is just as good as any college, and way less expensive. It’s a fantastic way to rack up some preliminary college credit even during high school.
Read more about CLEP testing

List of CLEP examinations available:

Composition and Literature
* American Literature
* Analyzing and Interpreting Literature
* English Composition
* English Literature
* Freshman College Composition
* Humanities

Foreign Languages

* French Language (Levels 1 and 2)

* German Language (Levels 1 and 2)

* Spanish Language (Levels 1 and 2)

History and Social Sciences

* American Government
* Human Growth and Development
* Introduction to Educational Psychology
* Introductory Psychology
* Introductory Sociology
* Principles of Macroeconomics
* Principles of Microeconomics
* Social Sciences and History
* U.S. History I: Early Colonizations to 1877
* U.S. History II: 1865 to the Present
* Western Civilization I: Ancient Near East to 1648
* Western Civilization II: 1648 to the Present

Science and Mathematics

* Biology
* Calculus
* Chemistry
* College Algebra
* College Mathematics
* Natural Sciences
* Precalculus

Business

* Financial Accounting (New in 2007)
* Introductory Business Law
* Information Systems and Computer Applications
* Principles of Management
* Principles of Marketing

1 posted on 07/18/2007 8:09:29 PM PDT by DaveLoneRanger


234 posted on 07/19/2007 9:52:14 AM PDT by Kevmo (We should withdraw from Iraq -- via Tehran. And Duncan Hunter is just the man to get that job done.)
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To: Kevin OMalley

My ex-brother-in-law quit school at 16. When he was about 19, he went down to the local four-year college and asked the dean if he could take college classes while working for a GED. The dean said yes. He now is the vice president of finance for a pediatric home care company. Does pretty well too.


235 posted on 09/14/2009 9:35:32 AM PDT by goldi (')
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To: Kevin OMalley

My high school was among the worst in the nation at the time, even though it was in a “good” neighborhood, because there were forced busing policies from the areas that had high concentrations of minorities (and they closed down the schools in the minority districts). It was a mess caused by well-meaning liberal administrators. Basically the school had the same problems as inner city schools without the teachers nor administrators having the slightest idea of how to deal with it.

A woman who taught in my school wrote a book about her experience, titled “My Posse Don’t Do Homework”. It became a hit movie: “Dangerous Minds” with Michelle Pfeiffer.
***I recently ran across the Wikipedia entry for this.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carlmont_High_School#Dangerous_Minds

[edit] Dangerous Minds
The novel My_Posse_Don’t_Do_Homework (ctrl-click)”>[[My Posse Don’t Do Homework]] by LouAnne Johnson and subsequent movie Dangerous Minds were loosely based upon her experience as a teacher at Carlmont in the 1990s.[3] Most of her students were African-Americans and Hispanics bused in to Carlmont from East Palo Alto, a then-unincorporated town at the opposite end of the school district from Carlmont. With the closure of Ravenswood High School in East Palo Alto in the early 1970s, much of its predominantly African-American and Hispanic student body was bused to other high schools in the Sequoia High School District, including Carlmont, which had an equally predominantly Caucasian population at the time. A subsequent ‘Open Enrollment’ policy in the school district permitted East Palo Alto students to attend high schools closer to home, space permitting.


236 posted on 10/03/2009 4:29:15 AM PDT by Kevmo (So America gets what America deserves - the destruction of its Constitution. ~Leo Donofrio, 6/1/09)
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To: Shimmer1

ping


237 posted on 09/04/2010 7:49:21 AM PDT by null and void (We are now in day 588 of our national holiday from reality. - 0bama really isn't one of US.)
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To: conservative cat

You see, he “let” you. That should have been up to your family, not some bureaucrat. I’m glad he did something right though.


238 posted on 09/05/2010 7:01:44 AM PDT by Shimmer1 (think. It isn't illegal yet.)
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To: Kevmo

My children entered college at the ages of 13, 12, and 13. Age wasn’t an issue. Few of the students or teachers even knew they were as young as they were. They just assumed they were 18.


239 posted on 07/04/2012 9:26:57 AM PDT by wintertime
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