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High School Equivalency Exam
World Wide Web Links | 1/6/05 | Kevin O'Malley

Posted on 01/06/2005 7:58:45 PM PST by Kevin OMalley

I've been getting asked more and more about my position that high school is a waste of time and my recommendation for parents to give their children a choice to skip high school. This is in response to the liberal agendas now prevalent in high schools as well as the simple fact that such a strategy would give kids a 4 year head start on their peers. Below are some useful links for investigating this option. I will repost my own experience under that.

UCB Parents Advice about School Taking the High School Equivalency Exam Advice and recommendations from the UCB Parents mailing list. This page is brought to you by UC Berkeley Parents Network Back to: Advice about School & Preschool --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

How does GED differ from CHSPE? What's an R-4 Affadavit? 16-year-old wants to drop out & take the GED

California High School Proficiency Exam (CHSPE) Frequently Asked Questions — FAQs

Tests (CHSPE and GED) By Wes Beach Tests provide a limited means of measuring test-taking ability and maybe other things. Don't let them be any kind of measure of who your kids are. They can, however, serve important practical purposes such as high school completion or college admissions and credit.

There are two tests by means of which to earn a high-school-diploma-equivalent certificate: the California High School Proficiency Examination (CHSPE) and the General Educational Development (GED). The CHSPE has a narrower focus and tests skills and knowledge in reading, math, writing, and language. The GED includes these areas and also tests in science and social studies. Opinions vary about which test is more difficult, and different perceptions probably arise from kids with different strengths. The GED is more widely known and may be more readily accepted, although it is a myth that the CHSPE Certificate is unacceptable outside California.

In California (different states have different rules), anyone 18 or older can take the GED, and there are exceptions for somewhat younger people under some circumstances. It is administered by adult education schools in public school districts and is offered frequently. Contact your local adult school for information on the GED or call the GED Office at the California Department of Education at (800) 331-6316.

The CHSPE may be taken by anyone who, on the day of the exam, is 16 or older, or has finished the tenth grade, or is enrolled in the second semester of the tenth grade. This exam is offered two or three times a year at test sites throughout the state. CHSPE information bulletins can be found at high schools and libraries or at For questions not answered in the bulletin, call (866) 342-4773. There is a great deal of misinformation about the CHSPE floating around, especially within the public schools. Check the official bulletin to confirm anything you hear. A student who passes the CHSPE still has the right to attend public high school if desired.

If a CHSPE or GED certificate is to be used for admission to college, entering the military, specific job requirements, etc., be sure to check at the source (the colleges, the military, the employer, etc.) regarding their policies.

Preparation books for these exams can be found in bookstores and libraries.

The College Board/Educational Testing Service offers a number of exams that can support college admission and/or can lead to college credit:

The PSAT, a shortened version of SAT I, is usually taken by high school juniors. If a student is in high school at the time he takes this test, he is automatically entered into the National Merit Scholarship competition. The PSAT is administered by high schools on their campuses; non-enrolled students may be allowed to take the test. Contact local high schools. SAT I (possibly along with SAT II) may be required for admission to four-year colleges and universities. There are two parts to SAT I: verbal—analogies, sentence completions, and critical reading questions—and math at the high school college preparatory level. The SAT's (I & II) are given at test sites throughout the state; sites are listed in the application booklet (see below). SAT II is a set of separate tests on high school subjects—world history, chemistry, French, etc. Advanced Placement: Colleges often grant credit for sufficiently high scores on AP exams. These exams are final exams in college-level classes taught in high school and are given at high schools at the end of the courses; students who have not taken the courses may be allowed to take the exams. Colleges also grant credit for good scores on CLEP exams. These exams are generally easier than AP exams, are given at test centers throughout the state, and cover the content of more than thirty college-level courses. ACT (formerly American College Testing) offers the ACT, a somewhat broader college admission test that colleges may use instead of or in addition to the SAT. The ACT consists of four sections: English, math, reading, and science. Even when SAT/ACT scores aren't required, they provide one way (there are others) to demonstrate academic ability and acquired knowledge in the absence of a traditional transcript. It may be possible to gain admission to the schools your kids choose through testing alone, and impressive test scores always add strength to a college application. Just as in the case with the SAT/ACT, good scores on AP and/or CLEP exams can support a college application. Check carefully with colleges of interest for their policies regarding credit. Classes that prepare students for these tests may be offered by high schools, adult schools, community colleges, and private companies.

Guides and preparation materials can be found in libraries and bookstores. Explanatory and application materials from the College Board and ACT can be found at high schools, colleges, and libraries, and also can be obtained directly from the College Board at (510) 873-8000 or at; SAT tests will be changing within the next few years. To keep informed of those changes, check the website Information about the ACT can be obtained at (916) 631-9200 or at Information on the GED is available at

College Confidential: Does CHSPE = GED?

Question: When colleges say that they accept GEDs, what does that mean for the CHSPE? Do they accept that credential as a high school diploma? If not, what should I do?

At the California High School Proficiency Examination (CHSPE) Web site ( you can find an Information Bulletin and Frequently Asked Questions (FAQs) about the CHSPE. California law states that the Certificate of Proficiency provided to students who pass the CHSPE is equivalent to a high school diploma. In other words, institutions that are subject to California law and that require a high school diploma must also accept the CHSPE. (However, the Certificate of Proficiency is not equivalent to completing all course work required for regular graduation from high school.)

Therefore, if you've received the CHSPE Certificate of Proficiency, your certificate would be equivalent to a high school diploma. The Certificate of Proficiency is not equivalent to completing all course work required for regular graduation from high school in California. However--and this is a good caveat for most general college-entrance-related questions--you should always check with the admissions offices (or admissions sections of the Web sites) of those colleges to which you are considering applying. This is especially important if you're interested in colleges and universities outside of California that may not accept the CHSPE or may not even be familiar with it.

TOPICS: Culture/Society
KEYWORDS: aadegree; ab2607; advancedplacement; ap; assessment; chspe; clep; college; collegedegree; diploma; education; fire; ged; generaleducation; homeschool; homeschooling; homeschoollist; kipp; liberalagenda; lipsman; nea; proficiency; psat; pspl; publiceducation; publicschools; sat; scholasticaptitude; school; schoolisjail; schools; skiphighschool; skipschool; students; teachers; teen; voucher; wasteoftime
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To: Max Combined; DameAutour
"... printed up our own H.S. diploma... "

***This sounds very intriguing. For DameAutour's sake, could you go into that a bit more? It sounds like there might be a loophole she could take advantage of and go to a community college straightway.
51 posted on 01/06/2005 9:23:25 PM PST by Kevin OMalley (No, not Freeper#95235, Freeper #1165: Charter member, What Was My Login Club.)
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To: ThisLittleLightofMine

A couple of visits to Free Republic will wipe out that liberal brainwashing. Don't worry. ;-)

52 posted on 01/06/2005 9:26:47 PM PST by Kevin OMalley (No, not Freeper#95235, Freeper #1165: Charter member, What Was My Login Club.)
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To: PeterPrinciple
I am hard science. But I feel your pain.

All subjects should use the EXACT same principles as science, mainly logic, scientific process and reasonable assumptions. This would revolutionize all 'soft' subjects if coupled with model building within an objective community.

Unfortunately the liberals pervert all they can (not too much they can do about math for instance) for political reasons. I think they call this monster political correctness.

I have a minor in history and really do love it. But I would never enter the field as it is probably the worst of the lot.
53 posted on 01/06/2005 9:30:22 PM PST by demecleze
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To: Kevin OMalley; Max Combined

Yes, I am interested in that. I guess I am opposed to the GED because in my mind there is a stigma attached. It is perhaps unimportant in the long run, but I'd like to explore every other option first.

54 posted on 01/06/2005 9:31:12 PM PST by DameAutour (Yes, I know what my problem is. My problem is I'm right.)
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To: demecleze

"not too much they can do about math for instance"

I'll give you one chance to retract the above statement. If you don't you may in for a firestorm here.

55 posted on 01/06/2005 9:32:24 PM PST by BobL
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To: DameAutour

If you have an AA, no one is worried about what type of H.S. diploma you have.

56 posted on 01/06/2005 9:35:58 PM PST by Max Combined
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To: DameAutour

No, a GED isn't the only option. There are a lot of
online high schools that will accept older people. For
starters you can try American School.

57 posted on 01/06/2005 9:36:33 PM PST by Cowgirl
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To: Max Combined; DameAutour

"If you have an AA, no one is worried about what type of H.S. diploma you have."
***Actually, I found that employers stopped asking about high school well before I got an AA degree. As soon as I had a few college classes under my belt, high school had become completely irrelevant. Just by saying you attend a certain college, their assumption is you have a high school diploma.

And there is no stigma attached whatsoever. I actually bring it up as a point of pride that I never graduated from my ridiculous high school but I have a college degree.

My high school was among the worst in the nation at the time, even though it was in a "good" neighborhood, because there were forced busing policies from the areas that had high concentrations of minorities (and they closed down the schools in the minority districts). It was a mess caused by well-meaning liberal administrators. Basically the school had the same problems as inner city schools without the teachers nor administrators having the slightest idea of how to deal with it.

A woman who taught in my school wrote a book about her experience, titled "My Posse Don't Do Homework". It became a hit movie: "Dangerous Minds" with Michelle Pfeiffer.

58 posted on 01/06/2005 9:59:08 PM PST by Kevin OMalley (No, not Freeper#95235, Freeper #1165: Charter member, What Was My Login Club.)
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To: Kevin OMalley
My daughter was home schooled. When we took her over to the local community college, they gave her a test which she did very well on. The school said she could start taking classes if she had a diploma and a transcript. Using my college degrees as a template, I whipped up a diploma, calling our homeschool such and such Academy, myself as Principle and gave my wife some sort of title. I made up a transcript listing the things she had studied, with some exaggeration and gave her all A's. When the school asked for her diploma and transcript, I handed over the ones I had printed up. The advisor looked at them, laughed, and said that Texas did not have any laws that differentiated between a home school and a private school. Then he took them over and made copies of them, put them into her file, and handed the originals back to me.

What works in Texas probably will not work in other states. Texas has no rules whatsoever about home schooling. One just does it.
59 posted on 01/06/2005 10:08:39 PM PST by Max Combined
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To: BobL

I have no comprehension of your statement.

60 posted on 01/06/2005 10:10:18 PM PST by demecleze
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To: ThisLittleLightofMine
"What about the influence that a humanities class on your child"

Out daughter was already well versed in religion before she went to the local community college. She was homeschooled and religion and math were the major subjects everyday. I told her not to argue with the liberal professors, but not to believe the liberal B.S. either. I told her that if she ever had any questions about whether any of the liberal stuff was true, to just ask me and I would tell her the truth. She did have several liberal professors, but in community colleges the professors are not all that smart, so it was easy for her to see through most of their nonsense.

I would be more worried about her picking up liberal notions from her professors at Rice, since they are some smart folks who can make that liberal stuff seem like the best thing since sliced bread, but she is a chemical engineering major, and there is no time to discuss Marxism in thermodynamics. Also, most of her fellow engineering students are not very political. My daughter did tell me that she was one of the few students at Rice who admitted to voting for Bush this past fall, but she and I both just enjoyed the liberals' misery.
61 posted on 01/06/2005 10:17:35 PM PST by Max Combined
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To: Max Combined; DameAutour

Maybe DameAutour could get one of those diplomas from you, Max Combined? If she takes a proctored Pre-GED or ASVAB or similar type of test and her scores are high enough, would you be willing to help her out? I have no idea if this is legal or if it would work. All she would need is just one college level class and then the high school transcripts become meaningless. It might be worthwhile for her to consider moving to one of these states like Texas (perhaps one is nearby where she lives) and take advantage of the loophole.

62 posted on 01/06/2005 11:11:12 PM PST by Kevin OMalley (No, not Freeper#95235, Freeper #1165: Charter member, What Was My Login Club.)
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To: ThisLittleLightofMine

I agree about Humanities. We've waited till now for him to take his Humanities req., so he'll be almost 17 when taking it. The 2nd 3 hours of the Humanities req was filled by a History of Music course, or something like that.

The good thing about being at home and taking classes is that you can "deprogram" the garbage that they are fed by liberal profs.

So far, one of his favorite profs, was his Comp I and II prof, and he was a liberal, but was all for a good debate. In taking his College Placement Test they placed him in an Honors Comp class and it was run more like a discussion group than a lecture. Lots of liberal garbage discussed, but my son seemed to enjoy the debate, expressed conservative views in his papers, and it didn't affect his grade.

Also, wore Bush/Cheney paraphenalia this past year and got into some spiritued discussions (you had to give a persuasive speech in his speech class on why you supported a candidate...his prof hated Bush, but my son gave a speech about why he supported Bush and got one of the only A's in the class...easy reason why, those supporting Kerry had no real basis for their support, thus no logical points). He was offended when they wouldn't let him participate in the Presidential straw poll in one class because he wasn't old enough to vote.

I was concerned at first, but am so glad he was home at the time he was taking these classes so his dad and I could discuss the issues raised with him.

63 posted on 01/07/2005 2:42:09 AM PST by dawn53
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To: Kevin OMalley

Employers and colleges prefer high school diplomas to GEDs.

64 posted on 01/07/2005 2:43:15 AM PST by PokerGod
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To: PokerGod
We moved on to the Community College when our daughter was 16 and she didn't have to take any tests, nada. The school assigned me as her counselor and I signed all her scheduling and what not. She was considered dual enrolled in HS and college.

Like other homeschool parents, at one point right before she finished her coursework at the community college, I printed out her HS diploma and moved her on. Oh, I did do one smart thing, because she was still considered in high school at the time of enrollment, she didn't have to take ACT or SAT--by the time she went to a 4 year college, she was already established and considered a transfer student; therefore they didn't require any testing either. She has a great GPA and is extremely active. She is age 18 now and a Jr. in college.

65 posted on 01/07/2005 3:10:49 AM PST by Pure Country
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To: demecleze
"I have no comprehension of your statement."'re not the first.

No, I was somewhat teasing. What I was getting at, is that there is a huge effort to dumb-down math. To the point of telling kids that 2+2=7 is ok, if that's what they feel - since telling them otherwise could hurt their feelings. This has been called Fuzzy Math and New, New Math.

There was another thread last night where we got on the subject of math. Here it is:

You'll see that the libs are managing to gum up math also.

But here's the mother of web sites on the subject: goes on and on - books on the subject. It is really bad out there. And then....when these poor kids get to college - everything changes. In college all of this garbage is thrown out, and the kids are expected to understand real math, or they flunk out.

Talk about a roller coaster for these poor kids.
66 posted on 01/07/2005 4:37:08 AM PST by BobL
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To: DameAutour

Wow. Congratulations for having that kind of motivation.

67 posted on 01/07/2005 4:42:02 AM PST by Nataku X (There are no converts in Islam... only hostages.)
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To: PokerGod

Once a person takes a few college classes, there is no longer any preference from employers whatsoever. I challenge anyone to post that they even had an employer ask about their high school vs GED experience once they had an AA or BS degree.

A high school diploma isn't worth the paper it's printed on. The GED might be considered less desirable, but that's just because they don't use fancy ink. The difference in value between the two? About 2 cents. There's my 2 cents.

68 posted on 01/07/2005 1:07:24 PM PST by Kevin OMalley (No, not Freeper#95235, Freeper #1165: Charter member, What Was My Login Club.)
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To: PokerGod; All

"Employers and colleges prefer high school diplomas to GEDs."

Thinking about this further, I realize that this snobbiness is the market perception for who I might be trying reach with this message. Such people would view the title of this thread and skip over it, thereby denying their children the benefit of the positive choice offered. I'm thinking it might be useful to repost this thread with a different title, something like: "An inexpensive way to fast track your kids through high school". Any suggestions on a better title?

69 posted on 01/07/2005 1:31:09 PM PST by Kevin OMalley (No, not Freeper#95235, Freeper #1165: Charter member, What Was My Login Club.)
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To: Kevin OMalley

I'm not ripping on the GED. I thought about it myself. I could have gone to college at 16. But I know that employers DO in fact prefer high school diplomas to GEDs. Maybe it's not correct, maybe it's not fair, but it's the truth.

70 posted on 01/07/2005 1:35:59 PM PST by PokerGod
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To: Kevin OMalley

It's ironic that states are upping the school leaving age to 18 in many states. Kids have had enough of high school. They really want out.

There was a story in today about a high school in Dallas that wouldn't let kids go to the bathroom during class unless they were accompanied by a POLICE OFFICER or the school nurse. Who the hell needs that crap whether you're six years old or 16 years old?

Going to high school is such an unattractive option today what with inane zero tolerance rules, cameras all over the place, pee tests, cops with taser guns patrolling the halls, PC indoctrination and all the rest of it. Who wants to go to a school where you're considered a potential criminal who has to be watched and monitored every second of the day? Who wants to go to a school where you slip up once, and your academic career is finished?

This is a wake up call to the public schools. There are so many more options out there and savvy kids know it.

71 posted on 01/07/2005 1:53:56 PM PST by ladylib ("Marc Tucker Letter to Hillary Clinton" says it all.)
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To: DameAutour

My brother-in-law quit school at 16, eventually decided he wanted to go to college, went down to the local Catholic college and talked to the dean who made him a deal. He could attend college and get his GED at the same time. He did. Now he's a vice president of a pediatric care company and doing very well.

If a college wants you, you don't necessarily need a high school diploma, which is something that public schools would rather you didn't know. Homeschoolers know it though.

72 posted on 01/07/2005 2:02:22 PM PST by ladylib ("Marc Tucker Letter to Hillary Clinton" says it all.)
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To: Kevin OMalley
A high school diploma isn't worth the paper it's printed on.

Unfortunately that's true. Many have observed that a bachelor's degree is probably equal to what a high school diploma was 40 years ago. That's how much it's been dumbed down.

There is at least one exception, the International Baccalaureate Diploma, which is awarded separately from the normal high school diploma. My daughter avoided the boredom of regular high school classes, got the IB diploma and a full college scholarship. The work she did for the IB would pass for graduate school work at most universities.

Her IB class had a reunion after their first year in college. Most recounted how easy college was compared to the demands IB had put on them.

73 posted on 01/07/2005 2:42:57 PM PST by DeFault User
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Comment #74 Removed by Moderator

To: Kevin OMalley

Oh My,You are from my neck of the woods then.I went to Mills High a bit north of your way,Class of 65'.Back then it was a pretty rough place,lots of working class Irish and Italian working class kids.We had a few nasty riots there back in the day.When my brother went there a few years later it was hippie high,lots of dope.
Now it is plurality Asian and very highly ranked as the home of quite a few National Merit scholars.

75 posted on 01/07/2005 3:04:27 PM PST by Riverman94610
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To: Riverman94610

Even closer than you think. My dad taught high school math at the neighboring Capuchino high school. I used to attend the Mills-Cap homecoming football games when I was a child.

It's funny, but "Parkmont" high school (Carlmont) where the movie took place has really improved since I went there. Just before I went, there were some famous race riots that even showed up on the MSM news, with TV coverage of National Guard moving in to establish peace. Race riots continued to take place while I was there, on a lesser scale. But it doesn't matter how many deck chairs you rearrange, the Titanic is still going to sink. It saddens me that national merit scholars are wasting their time in high schools, they could be earning college credits very early.

76 posted on 01/07/2005 6:42:50 PM PST by Kevin OMalley (No, not Freeper#95235, Freeper #1165: Charter member, What Was My Login Club.)
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To: Kevin OMalley; All

Here is another way we got hosed by Gray Davis not long ago:

Committee passes bill to let gifted students skip high school

Tuesday October 1, 2002

SACRAMENTO — Gov. Gray Davis has vetoed two bills that would have made it easier for the state’s highly gifted students to skip high school and go straight to college.

The first bill, which Davis vetoed on Sunday, was authored by Assemblywoman Lynn Leach, R-Walnut Creek. It would have nixed the age requirements for the high school exit exam, allowing kids with an IQ above 150 to take the test regardless of their age.

Currently, students have to be 16 years or older to take the exam.

More than 408,000 California students were identified as gifted last year. Of those students, up to 15 percent are highly gifted.

Students who perform far above their peers often complain of being teased and taunted in high school, according to supporters of the bill.

Davis also vetoed a bill by Assemblyman Jay La Suer, R-La Mesa, on Monday, which would have provided financial assistance to pay for tuition and books.

77 posted on 01/07/2005 6:51:01 PM PST by Kevin OMalley (No, not Freeper#95235, Freeper #1165: Charter member, What Was My Login Club.)
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To: Motherbear

"Best option is to homeschool, and NOT to take the GED."

Yes that would be best, but the great majority of parents cannot afford it. The options we've been discussing amount to filling out some paperwork, taking a marginally challenging test, and moving on to a community college. The result would be a 16 year old with an AA degree, and strong prospects for getting into the college of their choice.

78 posted on 01/07/2005 7:13:40 PM PST by Kevin OMalley (No, not Freeper#95235, Freeper #1165: Charter member, What Was My Login Club.)
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To: Kevin OMalley (1 of 7) [1/13/2003 3:25:30 PM]

Stereotypes are omnipresent.

Cultivating UW's foundation of youth

Doogie Hauser, M.D. and Bobby Fischer are media
creations serving to reinforcing public notions about
how life would be for youth carrying intellectual
capacities far exceeding their peers. As America rolls
along with an over-inflated and debilitating sense of
what professional accomplishment means, the nation's
citizens are fascinated with stories of youngsters
progressing early into academic and intellectual realms.
Perhaps it is this tendency to stereotype and assume
understanding without ever finding truth that led
students enrolled in the University of Washington
Transition School and Early Entrance Program (EEP) to
be amused with the idea of being placed under yet
another spotlight.
"The semi-annual reporter just arrived," chided
students in the program's lounge as their friends trickled
in for lunch, surprised to see an imposter sitting with pen
and notebook in hand at a table usually shared among
these friends. Energy and smart remarks poured forth
from the university students ranging from 14 to 18 years
of age, as a constant flurry of conversation whirled from
Tolstoy to the New York Times, and back to questions
of how it felt for them to study at UW.
The Robinson Center for Young Scholars
The Halbert and Nancy Robinson Center for Young
Scholars was created in 1977 by the late Halbert
Robinson, to enable highly capable youth to enter the
UW without attending high school. The most significant
element of the program, the Transition School, was
opened in 1981 to encapsulate high school while
developing knowledge, skills and attitudes necessary for
the soon-to-be undergraduate students.
Developing a social network for students in the school
is as important as the academic goals of preparing for
UW classes, said Robinson Center director Kathleen
Noble. By experiencing a rigorous year of schooling sideby-
side, and sharing a comfortable lounge and meeting

place in the school once they venture individually into
college classes, the students are allowed to develop
friendships elusive to young college students at other
"The transition school makes us unique among early
entrance programs around the world," Noble said.
Many of the 65 Transition School graduates now
taking college classes here were overwhelmed by
squeezing four years of high school education into nine
months of school. But the rewards proved worthwhile,
students agree, as they now are free to study classes for
more challenging than those offered at their high schools
back home.
Ariel Federow, 18, is presently in her fourth year of
study at the UW. Like many of the students in the
Robinson Center, she will graduate with several degrees
and more than a few connections under her belt. In
addition to pursuing three majors, she is involved in a
slew of extra-curricular activities as well.
"The ratio of busy work to actual meaningful work is
far lower here," Federow said. "It is also very easy here
to get in one track, where high-school was varied, and
less specialized."
Unlike many undergraduates, Federow was able to
narrow her academic interests down early and focus on a
streamlined course load within the broad spectrum of
classes offered at the UW. Other students in the EEP,
however, are aware of the effects of specializing at such
a young age.
"That's one thing I missed out on," said Elspeth
Suthers, 18, who is majoring in astronomy, physics and
Russian. "I had less time to float around and decide what
to focus on."
Apparently, finding a focus didn't prove to be
altogether elusive, however, for Suthers, clad in jeans
with white stars bleached down the sides of both legs,

works in the planetarium at Seattle Center. Suthers
visited the planetarium throughout her childhood, she
said, and accepted when they eventually offered her a
job teaching youngsters about the cosmos.
Some skeptics fear young college students are roped
into making decisions at a young age about what
direction to take their academic and professional careers.
The carefree demeanor dominating students in the
Robinson Center's lounge, however, hints more towards
sheer curiosity and eagerness to learn than it does of the
external pressure some might expect.
"We want parents to be supportive, but we don't want
them to make all the decisions for their children," Noble
said. In order to prevent parental pressure from being the
main motivation for students attending the school, all
applicants are interviewed alone by administrators to
ensure they are driven from the inside as well as out.
Skirting the "Kiss of Death"
By allowing participants to move from junior high to
a rigorous year of Transition School in the Robinson
Center, the program not only allows these students to
accelerate intellectually by circumventing high school
altogether, but it provides them a stable social setting as
well. In their EEP classes, and later in the center's
lounge, these students can act comfortably as kids while
still pursuing a college education.
Many researchers and parents are afraid of depriving
teenagers the pleasures of youth by whisking them
through school in rooms full of substantially older
classmates. But by accepting 16 students a year into the
Robinson Center, the program found a workable
combination for providing the region's brightest the best
of both worlds; academic and social.
"Boredom will really destroy a person, so it is
important to give every student the breadth and depth
they need," said Dr. Kathleen Noble, who started
working in the EEP in 1989 and now functions as its

director. Working as a psychologist as well as
administrator, Noble co-authored several studies that
analyze the effects of subjecting gifted pupils to slowpaced
schooling that moves far slower than the pupils'
One such study, titled "What About the Prom?"
suggests high-schoolers, when bogged down by
stupefying class loads, turn to other outlets. Noble labels
such an experience the Kiss of Death.
"Some [bright students] become emotionally isolated
and intellectually stagnant. Boredom, discouragement
and frustration can metamorphose into apathy, causing
some students to drop out or function far below their
actual level of ability; others, particularly gifted girls,
learn to hide their talents and skills in order to not be
rejected by their peers," Noble elaborated in the report.
Eccentric and wise
Many undergraduate students at the UW could spend
a dozen years or more working through the lists of
accomplishments racked-up by EEP students. Brian
Green, 19, is now finishing his fifth and final year.
When he graduates in June, his diploma will list majors
in political science as well as art. Devon Livingston, 18,
plans to graduate this spring after spending three years
accumulating degrees in biochemistry and Russian.
"I'll probably go to graduate school, maybe law
school," Livingston said. "Working at the Center for
Disease Control would be my dream job."
It is difficult to say how these students, who speak
eloquently and wise from beaming juvenile faces, would
have fared in public high schools. The free-nature of
thought encouraged at universities, however, almost
certainly allowed them to progress well beyond their
"I like going to school here," said Alan Worsley, 15.
"I like the freedom it allows."

It is difficult to say what is lost by skipping over four
years of high school that many people relish for the goofoff
time and social functions provided within. The
consensus among EEP students, though, is that their
time at UW allowed them to freely act as themselves
without being subjected to complacent, pack mentalities.
"There is an awful lot of prejudice against this kind of
program," Noble said. "Some think it is dangerous to a
student's mental health to skip high school, but for kids
this bright it might be dangerous to not skip high school,
because of the push for conformity found there," she
Robinson Center Student Receives Rhodes
Former UW student Emma Brunskill, a graduate of
the Early Entrance Program, recently received honors
when she was awarded a Rhodes scholarship. Brunskill,
a 21 year-old Ph.D. candidate now studying computer
science at MIT, will head to Oxford, England this spring
to study for two years under the scholarship program.
Brunskill, a double major in computer science and
physics at the UW, enrolled in the Robinson Center here
when she was 15. She pursued various projects,
including research in medical genetics, physical
chemistry, geophysics, atomic physics, distributed
operating systems and data mining. Brunskill also swam
and rowed competitively.
The gifted scholar is the first UW graduate to receive
the Rhodes Scholarship in 20 years. She was one of 32
Americans selected for the prestigious scholarship.
Previous article
Next article
Copyright©2000 The Daily University of

79 posted on 01/07/2005 7:29:06 PM PST by Kevmo (Charter member, "What Was My Login club")
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To: ladylib; Jim Robinson

"If a college wants you, you don't necessarily need a high school diploma, which is something that public schools would rather you didn't know. "

This represents a TREMENDOUS opportunity. We could all start Freeper University and help an entire generation of kids avoid the inane liberal indoctrination known as high school.

80 posted on 01/07/2005 8:25:47 PM PST by Kevin OMalley (No, not Freeper#95235, Freeper #1165: Charter member, What Was My Login Club.)
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To: ladylib

"There was a story in today about a high school in Dallas that wouldn't let kids go to the bathroom during class unless they were accompanied by a POLICE OFFICER or the school nurse...."
***Nor can the student wear the necklace of her choice.

Patriotic Necklace Gets Student In Trouble

81 posted on 01/07/2005 10:48:57 PM PST by Kevin OMalley (No, not Freeper#95235, Freeper #1165: Charter member, What Was My Login Club.)
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Comment #82 Removed by Moderator

To: Kevin OMalley

Here's another one:

Taser guns in the school. Parents are concerned according to the article.

"The statements we've made about the safety of the Taser is supported by adequate studies," said Smith, who traveled to Palatka in December to defend the device used in Putnam County schools before dozens of concerned parents."

The parents are nuts if they send their kids to schools that are apparently so dangerous, there have to be guards patrolling the halls with taser guns.

Welcome to the "Day Prison."

83 posted on 01/08/2005 9:18:38 AM PST by ladylib ("Marc Tucker Letter to Hillary Clinton" says it all.)
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To: ladylib; Jim Robinson

Actually, Freeper University isn't what I meant. That would be too much work and tons of money. The opportunity is for the Free Republic High School Diploma. We could arrange proctored assessment exams that would be tougher than CHSPE and GED. We set it up so that the kids are "dual track" or whatever it takes to get them through the loophole. And then they're off to the local community college. At 14 years of age.

It would be especially interesting to set up these kids with 529 funds and publish to all the freepers how they could contribute if they desired. Money donated into such a fund can only be used for education and not goofing off/drinking beer/loitering/whatever.

84 posted on 01/08/2005 9:44:36 AM PST by Kevin OMalley (No, not Freeper#95235, Freeper #1165: Charter member, What Was My Login Club.)
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To: Kevin OMalley

From Teen Scene Magazine:

Reality - Lauren Betancourt: Not Your Average College Graduate

Lauren Betancourt is not your average college graduate. She is not able to vote, go to the bars or even officially be called an adult yet. That's because Lauren entered college at the age of 13 and graduated at 16 years old from The University of Hartford with a Bachelor of Science in Biology Degree.

Lauren went to high school orientation, but wasn't excited about attending. While on her way home, Lauren said to her mom, "Wouldn't it be cool if I could just skip high school?" Lauren and her mom looked into it. Lauren had to take 5 CLEP tests which are tests that students of any age can take to demonstrate college-level achievement through a program of exams in undergraduate college courses. She also had to meet with the board of professors from the college so they could ask her questions and see if she was mature enough to interact with the other students. Her hard work paid off and she was off to college.

While attending college Lauren said that she didn't really tell anyone her age, unless they asked. But most people just assumed she was your average 18 year old college student. She explains that most of the time, her age did not change her friendship with the other students. Lauren surrounded herself with people who liked her for her and those were her true friends.

College was exactly what Lauren expected. She went to college to have more opportunities to learn and have a lot more freedom. She got to learn what she wanted, when she wanted and made some lifelong friends. Lauren was entering a world of adults even though she was only 13 years old. Many people told her that she'd never get into college, let alone make it as a college student. But she proved them wrong and accomplished everything they said she wouldn't.

Now that Lauren has graduated college, there is much more in store for her. She would like to get her Masters Degree in the future. But right now, she is taking a break from academics to dance. Lauren has been dancing since she was three years old and now she has the time to pursue it. Lauren states, "Dance is my passion and I am a strong believer in doing what you're passionate about." Lauren wants to pursue a professional career in dance right now and when she is older, go to graduate school.

Besides dance, Lauren keeps busy with a numerous amount of things. She has her own web design business. She also tutors high school kids and just finished teaching a Biology Laboratory Section at the University. She also just started an education site that she hopes will help people research all types of education. For more information, please check out,

Lauren's mom spent many hours in the car, either driving or waiting for Lauren during college, that she had to entertain herself somehow. She started taking down a lot of notes about what Lauren did in school and how she was feeling. Lauren and her mom decided to write a book and share their knowledge about her experiences in college. They found that people were asking the same questions over and over again so they put a book together answering them from both their points of view. Lauren hopes her book will inspire people everywhere to follow their dreams and never give up, no matter how unachievable they seem. Lauren says, "Everyone can do what I have done. I was never singled out as "gifted" by school officials. I was not chosen by anyone to skip ahead. I wanted to skip school and my mom was cool with it so we figured out how to do it. I hope my book will give a clearer picture of what accelerated kids are like." She also wants to inspire kids who have been told that they're not good at something. Just because someone else doesn't see your potential, doesn't mean you don't have it. The book will also help kids who may not want to skip high school, but may want to skip a year or two, or finish college early.

If Lauren could go back and do it again, she would skip high school again and go to college. Lauren says she has an extra 5 years now to concentrate on other things like dancing. Lauren also adds that her college experience has made her into exactly the person she wants to be, and she wouldn't change that for the world. Following her dreams has changed her life and she hopes that you follow yours as well.

- Kelly Kurowski, Associate Editor

85 posted on 01/08/2005 1:52:47 PM PST by Kevmo (Charter member, "What Was My Login club")
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To: Kevin OMalley

Some more interesting reading on other forums:

Gamingforce Interactive Forums > Gamingforce Network > The Quiet Place > ANGST! > No more High School

View Full Version : No more High School

Recently I made a difficult dicision. I decided to drop out of high school in a couple years and just go for college by getting a GED. All my friends say it wont work, and they would know, but they wouldn't! So should I go for it. All the practice GED tests I've aced, so I'm prety confident about my actual scores.

It's plausible. It might be harder to get into some big, fancy university. If you plan to go to a community college and then transfer to a university after a while (to save money) then the GED plan should work just fine. It's really hard to say if you should or shouldn't do it because it's a choice you make for yourself. Some things will be trickier, but then you get to skip high school, which is pretty tricky itself for some people. Just make a plan for college and figure out what you'll need to do exactly. Put your mind to it, and go for it. There are many ways to go through this wacky life thing. It's up to you.

I wouldn't do it, myself. Dropping out of high school isn't going to look good to a college, no matter how good your test scores are. Think about it from the perspective of a University's admissions department. If someone's too lazy to stay in high school for 4 years, what are the chances that they'll actually manage to survive 4 years of secondary education? :\

The fact that I've never seen a college mention GED's in their admissions websites only reinforces my thoughts on that matter.

That having been said, you could try calling up some college admissions people. They might know more than some random guy on the Internet. :tpg:

The only way that I can see this working is that, if you enrolled at a community college with your GED, you could transfer up to a real college or university after a year or two.

I agree with Adol. If you would drop out of High School, who's to say you'll stay in a college for possibly longer? And yes, call the admissions people.

Another Dreamer
I went to high school for three months upon coming here from Malaysia, didn't like it, got a California High School Proficiency Exam Certificate (state equivalent of GED), dropped out, went to a two-year college, transferred to the University of California at Davis, and I'm now finishing a degree in Food Science.

Possible? Definitely. But you -should- talk to high-school and college counselors, first.. don't just take my word for it.

possible - depends on what type opf college education you want - some courses of cirriculum are harder to get into - and wont be possible to do with just a GED

Duo Maxwell
I don't know, the GED is kind of a shitty way to go. But, if you must, then I guess there's no stopping you.

You said, "in a fews years." Does this mean that you've not even begun high school or you've recently started? It's only 3 to 4 years, so stick with it if you can. I hated it too, but I got through it (Although, I finished in just under 3 years, because I worked and took extra classes to get ti over with).

Although it may seem like a nice idea right now, you'll regret it later. If you go apply for a job somewhere, and there's another guy with the exact same diploma and skills like you, but he has also finished high school, they will take him instead of you. Why? Because they fear that, since you didn't even have enough determination to go through high school, there's also the risk that you'll get bored in that job, and that you'll just quit. The other guy is more trustworthy if you look at it that way, so my advice is, stay in school, so that you don't have any regrets later on.

I've looked into my college choices. They both accept GED as a high school diploma. I can't quite explain why I want to not finish high school, it's just that It'll be the easier way out. Mabey not in the long run, i'd admit, but for now and the next few years.

Duo: Wonderful observation. I'm in my second sophmore year right now. I'm only waiting becuse I can't get a GED for another few months. Plus, I don't want to go of to college at age 16. That's suicidal. I want to wait untill I'm 18 or so.

I know I might as well go through high school like everyone else, but as I said before, I think it's the best thing right now.
I've thought it all out. I think it will be prety possible. I would just like the opinion of you guys.

Additional Post:
Oh, and get this. I'm going to get a degree in Music Education. A bit Ironic, no?

My suggestion is discuss this with a guidance counsler before actually dropping out. See how realistic these goals of yours are, see some statistics and such...It reminds me a bit of the smart smart girl who gets pregenat and ruins her life. You can probably go far but don't take a shortcut that could fuck you over in the long run.

Getting into a good college is hard enough with a regular degree. Why would you make it even more difficult by dropping out and getting a GED? Obviously a GED is preferable to no high school diploma at all, but it's still quite inferior. Sticking with high school says a lot about you. If I were an employer and I had to choose between hiring someone with a regular diploma and someone with a GED, it would be no contest as to who would get the job. My advice is, don't drop out of high school.

so true,,,stay in school and get a god job!

It would work if you went to a community college first, which would also save you some cash as well. But I would go over it with your counselors at your high school and the advisors at the community college and university to make sure it will all work. Perhaps if they say it will work you should get a written statement as well in case they decide to change their mind when it is time for you to transfer?

Well I'm still in high school but I have to tell you if you drop out there's tons of benefits you'd be missing out of. Granted I don't know your cirriculum, but it should go without saying that college will be harder for you in some aspect if you don't finish.

yeah..i'm still in highschool too...I'm ready for college because of my grades and level of mastery but i don't think i could jump right in...i'm not ready to leave highschool yet..i like my school and friends and i don't wanna leave them to start college's just not a choice right now


Here's my opinion on the subject. Before you make any rash decisions on dropping out, I would also advise that you talk to a school counselor and let them know. Perhaps they can work something out with you.

Here's some of my experiences regarding a situation similiar to yours. I graduated from high school in 1998, after sucking it up for four years. I have seen many friends drop out, and now they mostly work in places like Burger King, McDonalds, or unemployed (not saying that this will happen to you, but they told me that getting into a university was too hard with a GED).

Me, I joined the Army. There's many reasons why, but I guess the top ones are because I was "sick of school and wanted to take a break", and "See the world" (boy did I see the world lol). After finishing four years on Active Duty (full time army), I went to college. Let me tell ya, the Army was really rough compared to school, and I'm glad that I got all that experience, so that I didn't really take school for granted again hehe.

I was also the first person in my family to graduate without dropping out (one of my older brothers did graduate eventually, but he dropped out for a few years too, not sure why. Another of my brothers dropped out and recently got his GED. However, he's having trouble getting into a community college).

Bottom line is, try to think of the long-term impacts of your decision. It's not like figuring out where you're going to hang out on a Friday night, this will affect you for the rest of your life, and if you can avoid it, you probably should. Not saying GED's are terrible, but they are generally viewed as lesser than a full fledged diploma when it comes to getting a job or trying to get into a secondary school (like settling for a bronze medal because you decided you didn't want to work to get the gold one).

Sure, school kinda sucks, but you could be in a lot worse situation (like me when the Army sent me to Korea, within artillery range of North Korean guns hehe). You could always wait till you graduate, then take a few years off before you head to college (but the longer you wait, the harder it'll be too, because you start forgetting stuff you need to know for college).

I don't think you should drop out. I agree with Alice that it's hard enough to get into college with a regular high school diploma, why drop out and try to get a crappy GED? Those hardly work anyway (not that I know how it is, I'm still in highschool but I have hard stories similar to yours) I don't think you wanna drop out, just stay in there, work hard; it'll be almost over. Don't jepardize your education, you don't want to do something that you might regret later in life.

A GED is just as good as a high school diploma to most colleges. The few colleges i'm looking at couldn't care less if it's high school or a GED.

The main reason i'm doing this is that I did a bunch of classes last year and early this one that I didn't get credit for because the school counted me as getting a biology credit. I apparently didn't get it, so now the other sciences i've taken don't count. The same happend with social studies last year. So now I've got to redo 5 classes plus abother 5 or so on top of them. That, or just skip high school.

I've got it all worked out. I get the GED, get a bunch of music scholarships, and a years worth of hardcore work should get me into a good colege.

Blue Nazis
That's my future plan. :) My cousin is going down that road.

I wouldnt suggest it, But if you want to go for it.

I'd be interested to know what colleges treat a GED as an equal to a regular high school diploma. Community colleges, maybe, but I've never of a university like that.

Well, I can see why you would think that, seeing as your school fucked you over from the sounds of it. However, if you stick it out, the extra classes you can take while in high school will help you out a lot. Even if you are able to get into a college reasonably easily, it doesn't mean it will be easy to get through college. The extra stuff you can dredge out of more high school classes make it more than worth the effort required to go through them.

Don't rush things, and it will turn out better. You can still get a good job while in school, if you look around a bit, and thus can spend more time saving up. It all adds up to an easier path down the road.

Hell, I finished high school, and I still regret not putting more effort into it, because with just a bit more effort, I would've been so much better off. Had I dropped out, I am scared of where I would be now.


I e-mailed West GA about it and they accept it and I am looked at no less (or more) than a regular high school graduate. I don't know about UGA, but I think i've got a better chance of flying to the moon.

If all else fails, KSU is the way to go. My dad teaches there and I should be able to get in rather easy..... even tho their requirements are increasing.

qb: I do plan to wait a bit untill I do drop out. I want to wait for all my friends. I'm gonna get any high school education I can, drop out, spend a year working and getting a solid foundation going, then going off to college. Then hopefully spending the rest of my days in a band room teaching little kids how to blow........ on horns and stuff....... yeah.....

if i were u id stay in high school.. so u have a better chance of getting into a college. maybe get a scholarship for some thing.. maybe...

Duo Maxwell
Plus, I don't want to go of to college at age 16. That's suicidal.

What's suicidal about it? I went off to college at 17. I was well-received and your freshman year, the workload should be cake.

Blue Nazis
I wouldnt suggest it, But if you want to go for it.


Yes, it's a lie.

And duo: It was more of a joke than anything, but I would feel rather outcast as an extremely young college freshmen. Social outcast, not acedimic.

Edit: I didn't spell academic right..... stupid me.... trying to prove i'm ready for college........

Duo Maxwell
I know, I meant I was "well-received" by the student body, in general. When you do go off to college, you'll discover something. For the most part, the people are there because they want to be. You don't have a bunch of immature dipshits trying to make it hard on all of the people trying to learn.

In fact, you might get more respect being younger in that position. I got a decent amount of encouragement and praise from my peers. I also got to date older women, which is nice (well, they were older than me at the time).

I'm in my first year of CEGEP, which is government-run colleges up here.

Belive Duo when he says people cease to give a shit. When you have so many people at one school, its hard for "cliques" to form and, by statistical chance, there will be people who share your interests.

Locke Cole
Yup, I'm in a specialized program at Seneca, and there's only 32 in our year, and I think 30 in the year above us, plus 20 odd staff, and 80 in the non-flying first year (it'll be cut to around 50 by the end of first semester, and then to 35 or so after the first year, those that remain go onto the flying syllabus.) and I'm good friends with everybody in my year, as well as most of the staff and other years. It's awesome. Our whole class also does alot of shit together (going drinking/house parties/etc.../hockey) all the time, so we're pretty tight knit.

Ah, you're at flight college, eh?

College will be infinitly better than high school from what I hear. People tell me there are so many people, you do what you want, and you just get lectured.

I'd feel a helluvalot better being myself in that kind of environment.

Endure High School, cause everyone else did.

One of my friends dropped out when she turned sixteen, and she's doing okay, but she's not going to get into any really prestigious colleges. Her goal when she was younger was Oxford, that's out of the question now. It all really depends on where you want to go later. If you're really desperate to get out of highschool, you could try to graduate early, if your school allows it, although that would take considerable more work. Looks a lot better than dropping out, though.

I made that decision

I dropped out of school and went to this alternate program. It was called Youth Challenge. I took all 5 GED tests and I got not my GED, but my diploma.

The choice is yours... choose well.

vBulletin v3.0.1, Copyright ©2000-2005, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

86 posted on 01/08/2005 1:58:23 PM PST by Kevmo (Charter member, "What Was My Login club")
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To: Don't wanna be audited

There's some fascinating reading on the internet if you type in the phrase "just skip high school". It is a sentiment shared by many teens on their blogs.

87 posted on 01/08/2005 2:11:16 PM PST by Kevmo (Charter member, "What Was My Login club")
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To: PokerGod

".... But I know that employers DO in fact prefer high school diplomas to GEDs. "

***Would most employers prefer an 18 year old with a straight HS diploma or an 18 year old with an AA degree? Assume the same GPA in both cases.

88 posted on 01/08/2005 2:20:06 PM PST by Kevin OMalley (No, not Freeper#95235, Freeper #1165: Charter member, What Was My Login Club.)
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To: Kevin OMalley

I took a number of advanced courses in 11th and 12th grades that have broadened my education. I would have been poorer intellectually without that knowledge. A student is still developing at that point, IMO.

89 posted on 01/08/2005 2:26:04 PM PST by Ciexyz (I use the term Blue Cities, not Blue States. PA is red except for Philly, Pgh & Erie)
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To: Kevin OMalley; All

>>The opportunity is for the Free Republic High School Diploma

Please! Instead of getting indocrinated with left wing crap, the kids will get indoctrinated with libertarian/ultracapitalistic far right crap.

You'll end up with a generation of young adults who bow down to the almight dollar and quote Walter Williams and Greenspan as if they were God.

Just homeschool your kids and select an established, credible curriculum. If you raise them with strong values (especially historical Christian/Judiac/ect based values), they'll be able to navigate their way through political and social issues.

90 posted on 01/08/2005 3:16:27 PM PST by 1stFreedom
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To: Motherbear

"Best option is to homeschool, and NOT to take the GED."

That's the way we did it with our daughter. If you have a degree in a rigorous subject from a quality college, no one cares how you got through college.

91 posted on 01/08/2005 3:18:16 PM PST by Max Combined
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To: DameAutour


92 posted on 01/08/2005 3:20:05 PM PST by cyborg (
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To: Max Combined

That is unthinkable here in the People's Republic of Hillaryland.

93 posted on 01/08/2005 3:21:33 PM PST by cyborg (
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To: 1stFreedom

"Instead of getting indocrinated with left wing crap, the kids will get indoctrinated with libertarian/ultracapitalistic far right crap. "

***Given a forced choice, I'd take the right wing stuff over the left wing stuff, any day. But I think you miss the point. There's a giant loophole that allows home schoolers to "print their own diploma", and we could take advantage of that to influence an entire generation of kids and education policy. Very inexpensively.

94 posted on 01/08/2005 3:23:29 PM PST by Kevin OMalley (No, not Freeper#95235, Freeper #1165: Charter member, What Was My Login Club.)
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To: Ciexyz

I took advanced courses as well. It was still a waste of time. At the time I was in high school, if one took every AP course offered, he could have built up enough to challenge about 1 semester's worth of college credits. I bypassed all of that by taking just one test. If I had heard about the CHSPE earlier, I could have had 4 years of college under my belt by the time my peers graduated high school, which trumps whatever "advanced" courses would be offered by any high school, especially the heavily liberal indoctrinaire ones.

95 posted on 01/08/2005 3:29:46 PM PST by Kevin OMalley (No, not Freeper#95235, Freeper #1165: Charter member, What Was My Login Club.)
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To: 1stFreedom

Just homeschool your kids and select an established, credible curriculum.
***What about parents who cannot afford to home school? This is a credible alternative for them.

If you raise them with strong values (especially historical Christian/Judiac/ect based values), they'll be able to navigate their way through political and social issues.
***There are plenty of kids who KNOW they're not being raised right, who would seek to find a way out of their current prison cell known as high school. This is one way out. It's POTO (Pointing Out The Obvious) to suggest that you should raise your kids with the right values; but it neglects that many kids simply aren't. What is your proposal for them?

96 posted on 01/08/2005 3:34:57 PM PST by Kevin OMalley (No, not Freeper#95235, Freeper #1165: Charter member, What Was My Login Club.)
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To: PokerGod
City Journal printed a fascinating piece several years ago, which essentially validated that line of reasoning.

While, from a purely technical standpoint, there's little difference between a General Equivalency Diploma and one acquired through the traditional route-in fact, I believe that most noncompetitive colleges consider their relative merit to be equal, in most regards-there is a world of difference in practical terms.

Someone who has been out of the classroom for years is going to have a much harder time adjusting to routine college-level courses than someone who has recently graduated from high school.

97 posted on 01/08/2005 3:43:26 PM PST by Do not dub me shapka broham (Proud listener to politically pornographic, freakish talk show host, Sean Hannity!)
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To: Kevin OMalley; All

>>***Given a forced choice, I'd take the right wing stuff over the left wing stuff, any day

It seems this is based upon the premise that there is only one truth, and those on the ecnomic right own it. Neither system is perfect, and neither is infallible. Why indoctrinate at all?

If you teach your children faith and morals as principal values, they can find the truths which lay in each ecomomic system.

98 posted on 01/08/2005 3:46:16 PM PST by 1stFreedom
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To: Kevin OMalley

I'm home schooling, rather have him alive than shot dead in educated hood high school. Actually he's ahead and should graduate faster.

99 posted on 01/08/2005 3:51:37 PM PST by MissAmericanPie
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To: 1stFreedom

Why indoctrinate at all?
***The FR HS diploma proposal has nothing to do with indoctrination. I was answering your implied conditional.

If you teach your children faith and morals as principal values, they can find the truths which lay in each ecomomic system.
***Agreed, but what if you're a child who isn't being taught faith & morals? What are your options? How can you escape the prison of PC moral relativism being force fed in our high schools today?

100 posted on 01/08/2005 3:52:16 PM PST by Kevin OMalley (No, not Freeper#95235, Freeper #1165: Charter member, What Was My Login Club.)
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