Stock photos
USS San Fransico
Compare the stock 688 photos with the USS SF and compare the freeboard. That sub is hurtin'.
Posted on 01/08/2005 3:19:47 AM PST by Jet Jaguar
Sonat sphere itself is flooded, lost at least two, maybe 4 of the 6 main ballast tanks forward.
The fwd hull on a 688 is usually "up" at almost a 8-10 degree slant, with about 1/5 of the GRP sonat dome exposed - all of that is underwater in this picture.
Look at a photo of a "normal" 688 floating: you'll see an amazing difference.
My son called last night about 1:30 am MST and said the sub made it into Port.
This was a bad collision and a traumatic experience for them all. They are lucky to be alive.
I had the pleasure of meeting CAPT Ned Beach once. We had touched briefly on the subject of THRESHER and he was irritated by the way the Navy had renamed the class.
He thought it to be a slap at those on eternal patrol THRESHER and a way of 'erasing' history.
Ever read "The THRESHER Disaster"? Her Reactor Control Officer, LCDR McCoole (then a LT) was pretty outspoken on the shabby work done on her at Portsmouth. McCoole was a Mustang, an IC man that was an ITC(SS) aboard NAUTILUS than was commissioned.
He was critical of the workmanship in THRESHER to the brass right after her accident, as a result his career was shot to hell.
Yeah, she took a beating---trimmed down pretty far forward would be an understatement.
An answer to prayer. I'm so glad and relieved your son is o.k. and he was able to give you a call.
Luck and in no small measure the training and dedication of your son and the rest of San Fran's crew. Prayers to all.
Although I am no longer a submariner officially, I'm still a submariner at heart, and that heart goes out to my shipmates on the San Fran. I served with a sonarman who transferred over to the San Fran as she was leaving for Guam.
A few weeks before that happened, there was another death on that boat. An FT died in his sleep while underway. They found him in his rack when he didn't report for watch. Almost like that boat has a curse on it or something.
God bless the men of the San Francisco. God bless the men of the Silent Service.
AMEN STS2/SS USS Glenard P. Lipscomb
Stock photos
USS San Fransico
Compare the stock 688 photos with the USS SF and compare the freeboard. That sub is hurtin'.
Yes, I remember very well all of the heat the yardbirds took over the Thresher and the subsequent "investigations" that took place and all of the finger-pointing because of the "poor workmanship."
She's so far out of trim there nearly isn't any freeboard.
The damage must be unreal.
Kudos for getting her home, for sure. They sure had their hands full.
A friend of the family was a yardbird at EB when THRESHER went for permanent repair following her damage by a tug at Port Canveral. He said the same thing about all the problems THRESHER had with PNSY workmanship. I felt that he was being honest, but wasn't sure how much rivalry between EB and PNSY figured into it.
The damage must be unreal.
Yes. The collision was to the bow and the outer hull is heavily damaged. My son said they had to run it with the nose slightly down. You'll have to excuse my ignorance about the parts of a boat; I was Army and a draftee at that.
My son said everybody worked very hard getting her back to port. He worked 33 hours before grabbing a few winks and then somebody dropped something on the deck above his rack and he jumped out of his rack before he realized that they were running on the surface and very slow.
Thank God the crew survived to be able to tell this story.
God bless the soul of the sailor who died and may his family find peace of mind.
Gotta run; ranch work to do; will be back in a few hours.
You have nothing to apologise for---I'm glad that your son is OK. Please be sure to let him know that he and his shipmates are VERY much in all our prayers. Their hard work bringing SAN FRANCISCO home makes all submariners proud of them.
G-D bless!
FAS
This is appropriate:
Almighty, Everlasting God,
the Protector of all those who put their trust in Thee:
hear our prayers in behalf of Thy servants
who sail their vessels beneath the seas.
We beseech Thee to keep in Thy sustaining care
all who are in submarines,
that they may be delivered
from the hidden dangers of the deep.
Grant them courage,
and a devotion to fulfill their duties,
that they may better serve Thee and their native land.
Though acquainted with the depths of the ocean,
deliver them from the depths of despair
and the dark hours of the absence of friendliness
and grant them a good ship's spirit.
Bless all their kindred and loved ones
from whom they are separated.
When they surface their ships,
may they praise Thee for Thou art there
as well as in the deep.
Fill them with Thy Spirit
that they may be sure in their reckonings,
unwavering in duty,
high in purpose,
and upholding the honor of their nation.
Amen
the submariner's prayer - author unknown
It depends on the results of the investigation. If it is determined there were no obstructions mapped in the area and there was no way the incident could have been anticipated, the officer's career will not be adversely affected. Even so, I imagine he feels awful about it happening. My prayers and thoughts are with all of them.
IIRC, there were some severe (union) labor problems while the Thresher was being built. I'd heard from a couple sources that the loss was caused by a valve stem being cut most of the way through.
That picture is amazing.
The forward MBT's must be barely operational. 688's sit really high forward. I can tell by the snorkel mast being bumped and the bubbly wake forward that they must have the LP blower on the tanks continuously.
These guys just proved American seamanship is the best in world. It must have been a super hard job to get that boat in port.
Hats off to every one of them, and God bless the casualties of this tragedy.
The incident was very touch and go. They were at depth and near flank speed.The the petty officer at the helm immeadiatly did an emergency blow,(with a broken arm)to surface the ship.Zack's compartment was filling with water, and while looking for the source was sprayed in the face when he became aware it was not sea water. There were no hull breaches and no high pressure steam leaks.
Two of the ships three bow ballast tanks were compromised severly and a air pump rated only for intermittent service was employed for more than 30 hours to provide bouyancy in those tanks.There were two risky option to keep the boat afloat if there were a pump failure, thank goodness the pump held.
The hull of the ship actually accordioned. I would like to thank the welders who put her together.
Zack helped stop the bleeding from a severe head wound of one of his comrades(he was unconcious but is ok).He also was one of the first a assist the fallen sailor.
Thanks to all for your thoughts ,concerns,and especially your prayers.
Thanks. And thank him.
Amazing. I stood a lot of COW and can just imagine doing a header into the common alarm panel. It's a good thing planesmen are still required to be belted in. I can't imagine thowing the chicken switches with one arm. Especially since you have to cycle them back shut.
688's lack the HP blow system that 637s have. We used to talk about how we'd line-up the ventiltion system to blow MBTs with the diesel, but we had no idea if it would actually work.
Please add me to your ping list.
So the choice is an LP blow or EMBT blow? I never knew that. Strange that is a system that would be removed from the mix, although I guess I could count on one hand the number of times any 637-class I was on surfaced using a HP blow.
Thank you to your son and your family for his service to our country.
SS:
I'd always hear the stories of the brazings being bad---and how when the BOI asked for the radiographs of another boat getting ready for trials (TINOSA?) they had suddenly "gone missing" New radiographs showed that many (most?) of the brazings were pretty p**s poor.
I can only imagine the hydrant THRESHER faced when MSW piping let go at test depth.
Very close: Aux seawater piping, 4" diameter, was what busted. (Which is bad enough), since the Thresher was near test depth doing testing after the overhaul.)
They probably could have recovered:
But the EMBT/HP Blow air piping to the MBT's "froze" due to the air cooling as it expanded through the comparitively small valves and long piping from the air tanks to the valves -> So they lost ability to get more air in the ballast tanks.
There were lots of questions about the air valves themselves, best I know, these weren't really resolved one or the other: Those on the Scorpion were also suspect, but can't proven to be bad.
And the reactor was scrammed, without procedures or training to recover steam or propulsion, and the original NavSea08 procedures called for the MS to be shut, and so there was no propulsion to drive her to the surface. They came every close to the surface ("coasting") but then fell back down, and the hull was crushed.
Yes - We drove the boat up on the ME's, kept it above water with the boat's angle riding the vents until the LP blower got the air out of the tanks, then "opened the hatch" and sent the OOD and lookouts topside.
Prayers to you!
I had heard that a reactor coolant hull valve had carried away but I guess it amounts to the same result.....flooding a whole compartment almost instantly at test depth. There were so many rumors but I spoke with someone who had supposedly read the actual report.
My understanding was that there were strainers in the EMBT/HP Blow air piping that was thought have been the area where the freezing took place.
I hope you do not mind the PM'ing---I see stuff that I'd have a hard time posting in a open forum. Not really comfortable about even PM'ing either.
BTW, My dad is letting the power company put an emergency Diesel Generator set at his ranch (big EMD's) They generators are rated for some 8 Mw. He already has a few wind turbines up (total 4.5Mw)
He's becoming a power Baron! ;-)
That's a Broach.
I really need to get back in the GD rack, I really do.
(FAS rolls off in his W/C, disgusted with himself)
"Give me heaven, or a 637" was the operative phrase when I was in. I qualified on Scamp, a Skipjack class, so those hotrods will always have a special place in my heart. But for crew comfort, the 637s had all over any other fast attack class IMHO. I'm not counting boomers because that's an entirely different experience; I have nothing against the boomer guys though - I are one, with 4 patrols on the 629B.
Add me to your list, please.
Hmmm! You don't suppose that's why topside watches in my day were forbidden to have a clip in their .45 unless under threat of immediate hostile boarding? Can visualize it now: 2 topside guys on adjacent boats, boring mid-watch, ...
I guess traffic is better....no collisions in over a decade?
Combined with the topside watches always dropping weapons overboard...
"Combined with the topside watches always dropping weapons overboard..."
I confess, I confess!
It was an accident, really!
bttt
Considering the Soviets had their coup August 1991 and military spending was already in a free fall well before that, if there's fewer subs on patrol there's less of a chance of a collision. Most of their subs now are causing an environmential problem as they rust in port.
I hope all the fingerprints have eroded from the coffee cups at the bottom of Holy Loch.
Here's a Romeo-class looking like "Operation Petticoat" Date / location unknown:
More Russians subs that have seen better days (12/2003):
That boat was built at Newport News Shipyard, in Newport News Va. I watched it become commissioned.
Thats why it held up so good. You cant beat a Newport News built submarine.
Yes, it was very touch and go. My son said that with the emergency blow, they surfaced very quickly. He also talked about the water leak and fortunatly, it was not sea water.
The collision also knocked out the sonar. The sonar guys helped out with other duties and the injured also worked at getting the sub back home. He went up to the control room to help out and said there was a lot of blood around there. The medic and and jg with paramedical experience and a couple of guys with EMT training did a fantastic job on treating the injuries. When a medical doc finally came on board, he highly complimented the work, stitching, etc that this group did. We can be proud of the good work of the crew of the SSN San Francisco.
My son said the charts showed open country for clear sailing. The senior people are really beating themselves up over what went wrong. And the crew is also concerned for the Captain, XO, Navigator,etc. He hopes everything will turn out good for them.
Yes, the hull is pretty well wrinkled. Our tax dollars were well spent there to be able to withstand such a colliding force. My son said that nothing came apart or was damaged in the engine room. He said when he meets an engineer or designer of the reactor and engine room, he will buy them a beer.
After 33 hours he finally got some rack time but somebody on the deck above dropped something and he came out of the rack only to realize that they were on the surface and going real slow. By the way, he is 6 feet 5 inches and weighs 240 pounds and he has learned to adapt to a small sleeping space! He has been in for 6 and a half years and has 6 months to go. Mixed emotions about leaving his boat in the shape it is in. These kids have worked hard to bring this sub from the worst to the best in the Pacific.
They need a lot of encouragement from everybody.
Hostel,
My son was also on the San Fran when the FT died in his sleep. He was young, in his 20's and had a heart attack.
Some time last year, the sub also had a fire on board and they surfaced for two days getting back to Guam.
I don't know if the boat has a curse; I think the sorry condition of the boat when it went to Guam was a result of the budget cuts during the Clinton years. On second thought, that is a curse!!!
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