US deserters flee to Canada to avoid service in Iraq

The Telegraph (U.K.) ^ | January 9, 2005 | Charles Laurence

[Stoat]

US deserters flee to Canada to avoid service in Iraq
By Charles Laurence in New York
(Filed: 09/01/2005)

American Army soldiers are deserting and fleeing to Canada rather than fight in Iraq, rekindling memories of the thousands of draft-dodgers who flooded north to avoid service in Vietnam.

An estimated 5,500 men and women have deserted since the invasion of Iraq, reflecting Washington's growing problems with troop morale.

	Jeremy Hinzman: a 'wrong career choice'

Jeremy Hinzman, 26, from South Dakota, who deserted from the 82nd Airborne, is among those who - to the disgust of Pentagon officials - have applied for refugee status in Canada.

The United States Army treats deserters as common criminals, posting them on "wanted" lists with the FBI, state police forces and the Department of Home Security border patrols.

Hinzman said last week: "This is a criminal war and any act of violence in an unjustified conflict is an atrocity. I signed a contract for four years, and I was totally willing to fulfil it. Just not in combat arms jobs."

Hinzman, who served as a cook in Afghanistan, was due to join a fighting unit in Iraq after being refused status as a conscientious objector.

He realised that he had made the "wrong career choice" as he marched with his platoon of recruits all chanting, "Train to kill, kill we will".

He said: "At that point a light went off in my head. I was told in basic training that if I'm given an illegal or immoral order, it is my duty to disobey it. I feel that invading and occupying Iraq is an illegal and immoral thing to do.''

Pte Brandon Hughey, 19, who deserted from the 1st Cavalry Division at Fort Hood, Texas, said that he had volunteered because the army offered to pay his college fees. He began training soon after the invasion of Iraq but became disillusioned when no weapons of mass destruction were found.

"I had been willing to die to make America safe," he said. "I found out, basically, that they found no weapons of mass destruction and the claim that they made about ties to al-Qaeda was coming up short. It made me angry. I felt our lives as soldiers were being thrown away."

When he was ordered to deploy to Iraq, Hughey searched the internet for an "underground railroad" operation, through which deserting troops are helped to escape to Canada.

He was put in touch with a Quaker pacifist couple who had helped Vietnam draft-dodgers and was driven from Texas to Ontario.

The Pentagon says that the level of desertion is no higher than usual and denies that it is having difficulty persuading troops to fight. The flight to Canada is, however, an embarrassment for the military, which is suffering from a recruiting shortfall for the National Guard and the Army Reserves.

The deaths of 18 American soldiers in a suicide bomb attack in Mosul, northern Iraq, last month, was a further blow to morale. Soon after, the number of American soldiers killed since President Bush declared that large-scale combat operations were at an end passed the 1,000 mark.

Lt Col Joe Richard, a Pentagon spokesman, said that the US government wanted the deserters to be returned from Canada. "If you don't want to fight, don't join," he said.

"The men in Canada have an obligation to fulfil their military contracts and do their duty. If and when they return to this country, they will be prosecuted."

The penalty for desertion in wartime can be death. Most deserters, however, serve up to five years in a military prison before receiving a dishonourable discharge.

In order to stay in Canada, deserters must convince an immigration board that they would face not just prosecution but also "persecution" if they returned to America. Hinzman's hearing has begun in Toronto and a decision is expected next month.

During the Vietnam war an estimated 55,000 deserters or draft-dodgers fled to Canada. There were amnesties for both groups in the late 1970s under President Jimmy Carter, but many stayed.

One who did so is Jeffrey House, a Toronto-based lawyer, who represents some of the deserters. He said that at least 25 had reached Canada in recent months with the help of "railroad" organisations, and believed that the immigration board would back his clients.

[Stoat]

The United States Army treats deserters as common criminals, posting them on "wanted" lists with the FBI, state police forces and the Department of Home Security border patrols.

Sounds good to me.  I don't see a  problem.

Hinzman said last week: "This is a criminal war and any act of violence in an unjustified conflict is an atrocity. I signed a contract for four years, and I was totally willing to fulfil it. Just not in combat arms jobs."

And where was it, exactly, when you signed up to join that they made it a point to you that it was your choice as to whether you would serve as an infantryman or a cook?  "tapping foot, waiting for answer"

He realised that he had made the "wrong career choice" as he marched with his platoon of recruits all chanting, "Train to kill, kill we will".

So, up to this point you had absolutely no idea that the purpose of the Army is to kill people and break things?  This is news to you?  Exactly how breathtakingly stupid are you, then?

"I had been willing to die to make America safe," he said. "I found out, basically, that they found no weapons of mass destruction and the claim that they made about ties to al-Qaeda was coming up short. It made me angry. I felt our lives as soldiers were being thrown away."

So, because you chose to listen to Michael Moore's version of events instead of the truth, you think that gives you license to desert?

The Pentagon says that the level of desertion is no higher than usual and denies that it is having difficulty persuading troops to fight.

And so what is the point of this article, then?

"The men in Canada have an obligation to fulfil their military contracts and do their duty. If and when they return to this country, they will be prosecuted."

Sounds good to me.

In order to stay in Canada, deserters must convince an immigration board that they would face not just prosecution but also "persecution" if they returned to America. Hinzman's hearing has begun in Toronto and a decision is expected next month.

I'm guessing that Canada's definition of 'persecution' would include anything at all involving a prison or something less congenial than a 'good conduct' medal.

[EagleUSA]

Every country has its cowards...and every dog has his day.

[wingnutx]

Every article I see is about the same couple of guys, while they try to make it sound like a flood of deserters.

[freedumb2003]

"The men in Canada have an obligation to fulfil their military contracts and do their duty. If and when they return to this country, they will be prosecuted."

Sounds good to me.

They should be shot.

[Zeppelin]

Piss-off Ping!

[eleni121]

Shameful cowardly twits...dumb too.

[HuntsvilleTxVeteran]

Quite a change in just a few years.
Before America joined WWII, Americans would go to Canada to join the war.
Now they are just cowards going to Canada to get out of a war.

[bwteim]

See also earlier introductions to this same POS:

U.S. deserters' bid for asylum has Canada abuzz
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1307090/posts
Washington Times ^ | 12/23/04 | Levon Sevunts
Posted on 12/23/2004 1:33:42 AM EST by kattracks

US Army deserter Jeremy Hinsman refused to serve because....(photo)
crushelits | Dec. 10, 2004 | crushelits
http://209.157.64.200/focus/f-news/1298551/posts
Posted on 12/10/2004 7:11:08 AM PST by crushelits

[highpockets]

When there was a draft maybe, and I mean M A Y B E.... But without a draft? Then you are a simply a dishonest person.

[Zeppelin]

***American Army soldiers are deserting and fleeing to Canada rather than fight in Iraq, rekindling memories of the thousands of draft-dodgers who flooded north to avoid service in Vietnam.***

...and just to remind everyone, one such draft-dodger went on to be President of the United States of America. Oh, and he got a BJ. All-around good guy, right?

[koba37]

I find these "men" even more despicable than the draftdodgers of the 60s/70s. These "men" signed contracts, nobody held a gun to their heads and made them join. They didn't like Army life and used any excuse to get out. Screw 'em. Let the Canucks feed and clothe them. Don't want any of my tax dollars going toward their upkeep.

[Mad Mammoth]

Strip them of their citizenship, keep them on every watch list maintained by the federal government, seize any and all assets they have left behind, and let them find some third world hellhole to call home.

Begone ye cowardly worms, we never knew ye.

[Clintonfatigued]

Soldiers have every right to privately disagree with a public policy. But if they're so opposed to using the military in its assigned missions, why did they join in the first place? They knew the rules when they enlisted. No one drafted them, they CHOSE to join!

You know what? The military is better off without such people in their ranks. If they want to leave the country, I say let them leave and GOOD RIDDANCE!

[koba37]

Where did they pull this number from:

"An estimated 5,500 men and women have deserted since the invasion of Iraq, reflecting Washington's growing problems with troop morale."

I bet it's less than 100... Are they counting IRRs not showing up??

[Stoat]

"The men in Canada have an obligation to fulfil their military contracts and do their duty. If and when they return to this country, they will be prosecuted."

Sounds good to me.

They should be shot.

Excellent point, sorry for my omission.  I should have said "Sounds good to me.  Prosecute them and then shoot them"

"The men in Canada have an obligation to fulfil their military contracts and do their duty. If and when they return to this country, they will be prosecuted."

Sounds good to me.

They should be shot.

[fastattacksailor]

Deserter (GRRRRRR!) pig

[the_gospel_of_thomas]

Strip them of their citizenship, keep them on every watch list maintained by the federal government, seize any and all assets they have left behind, and let them find some third world hellhole to call home.

Sounds GOOD to me - no need to get VIOLENT with them.
However, you need to be vigilant, and not let some wacky judge let them back into the US after 5, 10, 30, 40 years, whatever. Goodbye is GOODBYE.

[Last Dakotan]

And so what is the point of this article, then?

To cast America and this administration in a bad light. Same thing will happen tomorrow, and the next day.

[Kaslin]

I bet it's less than 100...

It would not suprise me if it were only 100, or less

[JimRed]

He realised that he had made the "wrong career choice"

The next step in that "career" should be a nice long stop in Levenworth.

[Recovering Ex-hippie]

Right. So right. Get rid of them.

[spinestein]

[An estimated 5,500 men and women have deserted since the invasion of Iraq...Jeffrey House, a Toronto-based lawyer, who represents some of the deserters. He said that at least 25 had reached Canada in recent months]

Where did the 5,500 figure come from? I read the whole article and it doesn't attribute this number to anywhere. The 25 deserters cited by Jeffrey House falls far short of 5,500 and even this number is not sourced to anything beyond the say so of House himself.

This is just another example of a failure to meet even the minimum journalistic standards.

[Cobra64]

They should be shot.

That would suit me just fine. But, I think you'd be on the JAG end for murder unless this were a military combat mission.

Don't get me wrong, I'd put these bastards in my reticle in a heartbeat.

[Finalapproach29er]

Hillary will pardon them in 2009...........unless legal measures are taken now.

[Cobra64]

Shameful cowardly twits...dumb too.

Listen up... there are a lot more newbies lurking here, trying to stir the pot. One referred to some of us as "Gramps" because we like Paul Newman and Steve McQueen.

If I were Admin, I'd be doing some screening of their disloyal comments to the United States, and disrespect to those who have served their country and grew businesses so that these twits can even be employed. IMOHO.

[spinestein]

Please make sense.

[Vigilanteman]

You nailed it. I'm trying to remember the name of the same dumb twit that two national networks just happened upon to quote some anti-Bush rhetoric prior to the election. Just a coincidence of independent investigations, you know.

[GW and Twins Pawpaw]

Maybe they can marry each other in kanuckistan. They're enlightened up there and it's legal. Not like the horrid Texas where I (and the President) live.

[Theresawithanh]

Whoa! Welcome to FR.

Men and women serve their country for many reasons, and a lot of them serve from a sense of duty, patriotism, and all kinds of things which you may not understand.

My two brothers and three nephews, as well as many men in my family before them, served then and serve now, proudly.

[SweetPilotofCanuckistan]

This Canadian will serve proudly for them!!! Just give me a shot!!! And a green card!!!

[koba37]

Funny you should say that - there were quite a few brave Canadians who served in Vietnam in the US military...

[VietVet]

Canada can have 'em.

But the statistics look kind of inflated, just like the "55,000 deserters and draft dodgers" from the Vietnam war, when there were, in fact, less than 10,000 warrents issued for desertion or failing to report for induction.

VietVet

[U S Army EOD]

On the other hand, we had a lot of Canadians come over and join the army and fight in Vietnam.

[SweetPilotofCanuckistan]

Believe me, I'm trying to get in. During times of foreign conflict, they offer military members instant citizenship, even if they don't have a green card (IE. Illegals) I'm trying to figure out how I can enlist somewhat legally and serve. The trick is that I can't apply for citizenship until I'm enlisted, but I can't find a legal way to enlist! It's frustrating beyond belief...but I don't want to lie or get a fake green card and risk being banned from the US. I live 5 mins from the border so it would drive me mad!

[HuntsvilleTxVeteran]

Thanks
I learn something new every day.

[U S Army EOD]

Check post 34 and then call a Army recruiter and ask him how it can be done. It is done from Mexico quite a bit. We would love to have you. The Canadians who served in Vietnam did a great job.

[koba37]

I thought it was fairly easy for Canadians to serve in the US military. I've served with at least 10 "former" Canucks...

[SweetPilotofCanuckistan]

I will definitely give it a shot. I'll try a couple recruiters in WA state and see what I come up with. It would be an honor to serve.

[Former Dodger]

I agree, like the novel "Man Without a Country" by Edward Everett Hale.

They chose to join, knew the risks, didn't expect war, oh well.

Keep 'em up in Canada, the reaon their government is so screwed up now is because of the draft dodgers, resisters and hippies that settled there and went into politics.

They were left wing America haters from America 30 or so years ago, now they're left wing America haters from Canada.

[U S Army EOD]

I wish you and your family would get the hell out, we don't need you raising more cowards.

[Stoat]

Canada can have 'em.

Agreed.

But the statistics look kind of inflated, just like the "55,000 deserters and draft dodgers" from the Vietnam war, when there were, in fact, less than 10,000 warrents issued for desertion or failing to report for induction.
 

I don't think that it's possible for the Left to produce accurate, uninflated statistics.  The only way that they can forward their agenda is by lying and inflating statistics, breaking the law and invoking any and all examples of criminal mischief

 

[U S Army EOD]

And it will be an honor to have you. We can trade you for "shockleyjenson".

[Republican Wildcat]

shockleyjenson members since January 9, 2005

[U S Army EOD]

Bet that is going to be another short membership you troll hunter you. I checked also. We are going to trade him for the Canadian lad.

[The Loan Arranger]

"I wish you and your family would get the hell out, we don't need you raising more cowards." He's a DUmmie troll, just look at his "born on" date...

[U S Army EOD]

I checked.

[Republican Wildcat]

I pinged Meek to summon the Viking Kitties. It won't be long now.

[kms61]

Problem with that is it's a volunteer army. You start shooting people and watch the recruits dry up. All those high schoolers (and especially their mamas) are watching.

[Stoat]

I'll try a couple recruiters in WA state and see what I come up with. It would be an honor to serve.

US Army Recruiting Station

1203 S. Everett Mall Way

Everett, WA

 (425) 348-5842

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