Skip to comments.Bush: 'I don't see how you can be president without a relationship with the Lord'
Posted on 01/11/2005 7:47:20 PM PST by jdm
click here to read article
This turned out to be an interesting research project. Since the quote was (allegedly) made before widespread use of the internet, it's not like the news orgs have them cataloged. From what I can see, at nleast so far, it seems that it all really comes down to whether or not you believe the reporter who originally asked the question. Hopefully, a response from the presidential library will clear this all up.
Thank you. :^)
I'll be interested to learn what you come up with. This isn't an issue of who's right or wrong, just getting at the truth of the matter---either way.
Someone sent me this website during the Christmas season.
Dude, shoot me over some of that righteous high octane sh*t you're usin' wouldja? Far out man.
Thie following comes from Clements first epistle to the corinthians.
When Polycarp was taken And his time came near, the Roman proconsul asked him whether he was Polycarp. On his confessing that he was, [the proconsul] sought to persuade him to deny [Christ], saying, "Have respect to thy old age," and other similar things, according to their custom, [such as]," Swear by the fortune of Caesar; repent, and say, Away with the Atheists." But Polycarp, gazing with a stern countenance on all the multitude of the wicked heathen then in the stadium, and waving his hand towards them, while with groans he looked up to heaven, said, "Away with the Atheists."(5) Then, the proconsul urging him, and saying, "Swear, and I will set thee at liberty, reproach Christ;" Polycarp declared, "Eighty and six years have I served Him, and He never did me any injury: how then can I blaspheme my King and my Saviour?"
Christians were called atheists because they had NO IDOLS
The following is also from Clements first letter to the corinthians Hence are we called atheists. And we confess that we are atheists, so far as gods of this sort are concerned, but not with respect to the most true God, the Father of righteousness and temperance and the other virtues, who is free from all impurity. But both Him, and the Son (who came forth from Him and taught us these things, and the host of the other good angels who follow and are made like to Him), (3) and the prophetic Spirit, we worship and adore, knowing them in reason and truth, and declaring without grudging to every one who wishes to learn, as we have been taught.
What sober-minded man, then, will not acknowledge that we are not atheists, worshipping as we do the Maker of this universe, and declaring, as we have been taught, that He has no need of streams of blood and libations and incense; whom we praise to the utmost of our power by the exercise of prayer and thanksgiving for all things wherewith we are supplied, as we have been taught that the only honour that is worthy of Him is not to consume by fire what He has brought into being for our sustenance, but to use it for ourselves and those who need, and with gratitude to Him to offer thanks by invocations and hymns(1) for our creation, and for all the means of health . . .
Justin Martry acknowledges Christians in his day were still called athiests bt rome:
Hence are we called atheists. And we confess that we are atheists, so far as gods of this sort are concerned, but not with respect to the most true God, the Father of righteousness and temperance and the other virtues, who is free from all impurity. But both Him, and the Son (who came forth from Him and taught us these things, and the host of the other good angels who follow and are made like to Him), (3) and the prophetic Spirit, we worship and adore, knowing them in reason and truth, and declaring without grudging to every one who wishes to learn, as we have been taught.
It was only when the Church leadership after several revisions of what they taught were willing to embrace idols -- christainized idols that the emperor of Rome then Contantine had is "Miraculous" conversion and so the roman catholic church was born with not Athiests but theists.
And what were beleivers supposed to do to avert death and disavow the charge of atheism?
This is waht it was all about that this was standard roman proceedure for about 250 years
Pliny to the Emperor Trajan (approx 115 AD)
It is my practice, my lord, to refer to you all matters concerning which I am in doubt. For who can better give guidance to my hesitation or inform my ignorance? I have never participated in trials of Christians. I therefore do not know what offenses it is the practice to punish or investigate, and to what extent. And I have been not a little hesitant as to whether there should be any distinction on account of age or no difference between the very young and the more mature; whether pardon is to be granted for repentance, or, if a man has once been a Christian, it does him no good to have ceased to be one; whether the name itself, even without offenses, or only the offenses associated with the name are to be punished.
Meanwhile, in the case of those who were denounced to me as Christians, I have observed the following procedure: I interrogated these as to whether they were Christians; those who confessed I interrogated a second and a third time, threatening them with punishment; those who persisted I ordered executed. For I had no doubt that, whatever the nature of their creed, stubbornness and inflexible obstinacy surely deserve to be punished. There were others possessed of the same folly; but because they were Roman citizens, I signed an order for them to be transferred to Rome.
Soon accusations spread, as usually happens, because of the proceedings going on, and several incidents occurred. An anonymous document was published containing the names of many persons. Those who denied that they were or had been Christians, when they invoked the gods in words dictated by me, offered prayer with incense and wine to your image, which I had ordered to be brought for this purpose together with statues of the gods, and moreover cursed Christ--none of which those who are really Christians, it is said, can be forced to do--these I thought should be discharged. Others named by the informer declared that they were Christians, but then denied it, asserting that they had been but had ceased to be, some three years before, others many years, some as much as twenty-five years. They all worshipped your image and the statues of the gods, and cursed Christ.
They asserted, however, that the sum and substance of their fault or error had been that they were accustomed to meet on a fixed day before dawn and sing responsively a hymn to Christ as to a god, and to bind themselves by oath, not to some crime, but not to commit fraud, theft, or adultery, not falsify their trust, nor to refuse to return a trust when called upon to do so. When this was over, it was their custom to depart and to assemble again to partake of food--but ordinary and innocent food. Even this, they affirmed, they had ceased to do after my edict by which, in accordance with your instructions, I had forbidden political associations. Accordingly, I judged it all the more necessary to find out what the truth was by torturing two female slaves who were called deaconesses. But I discovered nothing else but depraved, excessive superstition.
I therefore postponed the investigation and hastened to consult you. For the matter seemed to me to warrant consulting you, especially because of the number involved. For many persons of every age, every rank, and also of both sexes are and will be endangered. For the contagion of this superstition has spread not only to the cities but also to the villages and farms. But it seems possible to check and cure it. It is certainly quite clear that the temples, which had been almost deserted, have begun to be frequented, that the established religious rites, long neglected, are being resumed, and that from everywhere sacrificial animals are coming, for which until now very few purchasers could be found. Hence it is easy to imagine what a multitude of people can be reformed if an opportunity for repentance is afforded.
Trajan to Pliny You observed proper procedure, my dear Pliny, in sifting the cases of those who had been denounced to you as Christians. For it is not possible to lay down any general rule to serve as a kind of fixed standard. They are not to be sought out; if they are denounced and proved guilty, they are to be punished, with this reservation, that whoever denies that he is a Christian and really proves it--that is, by worshiping our gods--even though he was under suspicion in the past, shall obtain pardon through repentance. But anonymously posted accusations ought to have no place in any prosecution. For this is both a dangerous kind of precedent and out of keeping with the spirit of our age.
I'll give them a pass on written articles, reluctantly, however what excuse is there when newscasters/pundits continuously do it? Listening to Juan Williams, Campbell Brown and many others, you'd think GWB was an average joe and not our President.
Will you join with me, then, in praying for his response to the manifestation of God to him which my prayer seeks?
I agree. I made the mistake of copying someone's rant from DU and now everyone thinks I am a hate-mongering, atheist surrender monkey! I am many things, but I am not THOSE things. Therefore, I will not quote from DU again. Too dangerous.
President Bush and I worship the same Lord, and one of the reasons I admire him so much is that he stands firm in his faith, regardless of the cost.
when I posted THIS,
'wow - they're nuts. 'if push comes to shove, bush would abandon the american people if his "god" told him to, so what the f is that for a leader? to be president you have to be an atheist at heart. you can't worry about your soul or your relationship with some sort of god if you have sworn to defend the US'...
I WAS COPYING FROM A DUMMIE POST LINKED IN #14 AND REPLYING TO THE FREEPER.
I once wrote an article on Stockhausen for the Objectivist Center. You might like it: http://www.objectivistcenter.org/articles/ebarnhill_irrelevance-avant-garde.asp
Folks may not always agree with George w. Bush, but he is convicted, and has the courage of a lion.
That scares the libs TO DEATH."
Just beautiful. Says it all!
Others need to read more carefully......don't worry about it.
btw, those DU'ers are more than nuts. They're sick, lost and confused.
That's the way Christians talk, Urbane. There's no lack of intelligence in it.
Our son was in Iraq for over a year, and I said, maybe a thousand times during that year, "How do people do this without the Lord?"
I'm sure that's exactly how President Bush feels. He NEEDS the Lord to help him through the gravity, pressure and sometimes just plain awfulness of the task that God has given him to do, and has the honesty to say so.
Nothing dumb about that.....
Ok, ok, don't yell. Sheesh!
I was slapped several times in this one thread for appearing to be a Dummie...I am going to be a LOT more careful in my next posts quoting from DUers!
you can call me many things, but you CAN'T call me a Dem or a DUer or a troll.....them's fighting words....
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