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Indonesia denies U.S. pilots use of airspace; carrier leaves
Washington Times ^ | 1/13/05 | Denis D. Gray, AP

Posted on 01/12/2005 11:19:43 PM PST by kattracks

ABOARD THE USS ABRAHAM LINCOLN — The aircraft carrier leading the U.S. military's tsunami relief effort steamed out of Indonesian waters yesterday after the country declined to let the ship's fighter pilots use its airspace for training missions — part of a broad effort by Indonesia to reassert control over its territory.
    The USS Abraham Lincoln's diversion, which was not expected to affect aid flights, came as the White House asked the Indonesian government to explain why it appears to be demanding that the U.S. military and other foreign troops providing disaster relief leave the country by the end of March.

[snip]

The Indonesian government said foreign troops would be out of the country by March 31. "A three-month period is enough, even sooner the better," Indonesian Vice President Jusuf Kalla said Tuesday.
    U.S. Marines have scaled back plans to send hundreds of troops ashore to build roads and clear rubble. The two sides reached a compromise in which the Americans agreed not to set up a base camp on Indonesia or carry weapons.
    Instead, the Marines — about 2,000 of whom were diverted to tsunami relief from duty in Iraq — will keep a "minimal footprint" in the country, with most returning to ships at night, said Col. Tom Greenwood, commander of the 15th Marine Expeditionary Unit.

[snip]

Under Navy rules, pilots of carrier-based warplanes cannot go longer than 14 days without flying, or their skills are considered to have degraded too far and they have to undergo extensive retraining.
    


(Excerpt) Read more at washtimes.com ...


TOPICS: Breaking News; Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: antiamerican; antiamericanism; disasterrelief; geopolitics; indonesia; ingrates; loathethemilitary; muslims; relief; reliefeffort; religionofpeace; southeastasia; sumatraquake; trop; tsunami; tsunamirelief; usefulidiots; usmilitary; ussabrahamlincoln
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1 posted on 01/12/2005 11:19:43 PM PST by kattracks
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To: kattracks

Oh isn't that nice of them? Thanks for nothing, U.S.


2 posted on 01/12/2005 11:21:23 PM PST by kcvl
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To: kattracks

but lemme guess.....they still want our money?


3 posted on 01/12/2005 11:23:33 PM PST by stuck_in_new_orleans
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Comment #4 Removed by Moderator

To: snopercod

Bump.


5 posted on 01/12/2005 11:25:42 PM PST by First_Salute (May God save our democratic-republican government, from a government by judiciary.)
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To: kattracks
Indonesian is one screwed up country
6 posted on 01/12/2005 11:26:58 PM PST by Mo1 (Does the distinguished Sen from VT wish to act as our treaty rep. for negotiations with Al Queda?)
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To: kattracks
The answer is obvious. Excuse us for trying to help. We should leave and return to what we were doing. No point being where we are not wanted. We shouldn't leave them any money either.

Hey, we offered help, they declined it. Doesn't make US the bad guy, now does it?

Nik
7 posted on 01/12/2005 11:27:39 PM PST by Nik Naym
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To: kattracks

F the Indonesian government!


8 posted on 01/12/2005 11:28:08 PM PST by Pro-Bush (It is fatal to enter any war without the will to win it. --General Douglas MacArthur)
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To: stuck_in_new_orleans
but lemme guess.....they still want our money?

Well, yeah. They want us to leave the money beside their Islamic bed and slip out quietly.

9 posted on 01/12/2005 11:28:51 PM PST by xJones
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To: stuck_in_new_orleans

Not getting a penny of mine. Maybe I'll donate to California Flood relief instead. Charity begins at home...


10 posted on 01/12/2005 11:30:32 PM PST by Kozak (Anti Shahada: " There is no God named Allah, and Muhammed is his False Prophet")
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To: kattracks
The Indonesian government said foreign troops would be out of the country by March 31. "A three-month period is enough, even sooner the better," Indonesian Vice President Jusuf Kalla said Tuesday.

Any word on whether Jusef Kalla's pointed middle-finger poked skyward in the general direction of the Lincoln has yet been folded back into his fist?

11 posted on 01/12/2005 11:31:07 PM PST by F16Fighter
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To: kattracks
The USS Abraham Lincoln's diversion, which was not expected to affect aid flights, came as the White House asked the Indonesian government to explain why it appears to be demanding that the U.S. military and other foreign troops providing disaster relief leave the country by the end of March.

Bush is asking why, rather than saying OK Indonesia, wish granted?

12 posted on 01/12/2005 11:32:26 PM PST by HiTech RedNeck
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To: kattracks
Who knows what's really going on out there, and don't post it if you do.

As I said in FR post: U.S. Should Not Help Tsunami Victims

Bleep the Osbama T-shirt wearing muslims in Indonesia! You're either wit' us or your again' us!

13 posted on 01/12/2005 11:34:31 PM PST by benjaminjjones
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To: international american

You got that right. Stinking seventh-century savages value nothing humane or decent.


14 posted on 01/12/2005 11:35:12 PM PST by broadsword (It was far beyond anything seen here before!)
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To: kcvl

Oh!!!!!!!!!!


15 posted on 01/12/2005 11:36:16 PM PST by F14 Pilot (Democracy is a process not a product)
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To: HiTech RedNeck
"Bush is asking why, rather than saying OK Indonesia, wish granted?"

Correct. Now lets see what that little question did to the pucker factor in Indonesia!

16 posted on 01/12/2005 11:41:42 PM PST by Southack (Media Bias means that Castro won't be punished for Cuban war crimes against Black Angolans in Africa)
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To: Southack

Well, not if Bush couched it in terms of "we can't complete the promised charity if we have to leave that soon."


17 posted on 01/12/2005 11:45:14 PM PST by HiTech RedNeck
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To: kattracks

I hate to be cynical but they've claimed over 200,000 dead but won't allow anyone to verifiy the number because they're blocking access to the disaster areas. Does the UN contribute money and manpower based on the number of dead?


18 posted on 01/12/2005 11:45:58 PM PST by Jean S
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To: stuck_in_new_orleans

this just sickens me...they want our money but not our presence.....sorry people you can't have it that way....

I mean what....Do they expect us to send them a blank check and "HOPE" they do the right thing....please....
with our past experience.....can you say "food for oil program"......friggin unbelieveable....

makes me wanna say to hell with them...but I realize that not all the people are like that and they really do need our help...IT WOULD JUST BE NICE TO BE APPRECIATED FOR ONCE.......!!!!!!!!!!

First we're "Stingy" now this!


19 posted on 01/12/2005 11:46:21 PM PST by YoungBlackRepublican (Being African Amercian doesn't mean you HAVE TO VOTE DEMOCRAT!)
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To: kattracks

I always felt that the only thing we should have been delivering to the Indonesian Muslims on Aceh were cluster bombs.


20 posted on 01/12/2005 11:46:38 PM PST by Bon mots
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To: kattracks
I can hear the ingrates now...

"We're not thirsty anymore. YANKEES GO HOME! DEATH TO THE USA! ALLAHU AKBAR."

Let Kofi and Osama save them next time.
21 posted on 01/12/2005 11:48:14 PM PST by Bon mots
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To: benjaminjjones
I got a lot of hate mail for my rants on that subject.

I didn't mind the debate but I found it extreemly disturbing that a few FReepers here would ping the admins and ask for threads to be pulled on the subject and make wild accusations of hate mongering.

An American Expat in Southeast Asia

22 posted on 01/12/2005 11:49:02 PM PST by expatguy (http://laotze.blogspot.com/)
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To: kattracks

Sorry,

my patience with satanic idiocy has reached a new low.

Leave em in the dust.

Let em cope with their own dead, wounded and shell shocked.

Let em cope with the consequences of refusing to pay attention to our warning 20 minutes after the big quake of a possible tsunami.

Let em cope with the consequences of their idiocies of biting the hand reaching down to lift them out of the sewers of chaos and literal sewers washing over their lives and hopes.

Let em cope with the consequences of arrogance, pride, pettiness and self-righteousness.

Cast them adrift and let God deal with them more directly and see how much they like that any better, or not.


23 posted on 01/12/2005 11:52:33 PM PST by Quix (HAVING A FORM of GODLINESS but DENYING IT'S POWER. 2 TIM 3:5)
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To: kattracks

God says that returning evil for good will result in evil never leaving that household.


24 posted on 01/12/2005 11:53:07 PM PST by Quix (HAVING A FORM of GODLINESS but DENYING IT'S POWER. 2 TIM 3:5)
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To: F14 Pilot

I was being sarcastic about THEM not "allowing" us in their airspace. Not about the U. S. If that's what you thought I meant, I apologize.


25 posted on 01/12/2005 11:53:18 PM PST by kcvl
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To: kattracks
I am sure the libs would say this is an example of why the UN alone should handle this type of thing.

They couldn't be more wrong. This is the core of why the UN is a complete failure: It does not exist to perpetuate itself but to foster good relations between nations. In this case, the UN should be standing up and telling the Indonesian government "Grow up and act like a responsible government and take the US assistance. You should be grateful."

Instead, Koffi Annan will smile that benevolent smile of his and gently say that this is why the US was wrong to go off on its own, and the UN itself will control the aid...to which America can be free to contribute.

The UN is like an emissary who believes he is not a carrier of messages from his employer but, because he's the one talking, the ORIGINATOR of those messages.

Well done, come on home. And when the New York Times bitches at Bush, we should tell them to knock off the political crap and write a few op-eds putting the blame where it belongs--the government of Indonesia, and the UN which no doubt will make sure it doesn't suffer anything for this silly. childish and petulant temper tantrum, putting its pride ahead of its people.

26 posted on 01/12/2005 11:54:22 PM PST by Darkwolf377 (Americans never quit. --Gen. Douglas MacArthur)
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To: Darkwolf377

"Instead, Koffi Annan will smile that benevolent smile of his and gently say that this is why the US was wrong to go off on its own, and the UN itself will control the aid...to which America can be free to contribute. "


arrggg....Koffi Annan.....Yeah he will put us down while stuffing his pockets


27 posted on 01/13/2005 12:07:32 AM PST by YoungBlackRepublican (Being African Amercian doesn't mean you HAVE TO VOTE DEMOCRAT!)
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To: YoungBlackRepublican

http://diplomadic.blogspot.com/
After reading the latest on the UN outrage read the next sobering commentary

The Evil of Good? Thinking About Unintended Consequences

This blog is by people who are foreign service members.


28 posted on 01/13/2005 12:14:24 AM PST by MEG33 (GOD BLESS OUR ARMED FORCES)
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Comment #29 Removed by Moderator

Comment #30 Removed by Moderator

Comment #31 Removed by Moderator

To: expatguy

You didn't limit your "rant" to Indonesia.


32 posted on 01/13/2005 12:22:01 AM PST by DB ()
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To: kattracks
We should pull all our people out of there. Let them stew in their own farts. I'm sick of the lack of gratitude. We get attacked no matter how much we unselfishly do and give. Let's see what these turds can do on their own.

Dammit

33 posted on 01/13/2005 12:27:40 AM PST by Octar
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To: international american

Send em all home. Indonesia is a shithole enemy of ours.


Muslims!!!


34 posted on 01/13/2005 12:28:02 AM PST by danamco
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To: kattracks
I am curious. Does anyone think that the usual Freepers will post replies defending the ungrateful Asian muslims (And hindus, if any.)?

Will the usual suspects criticize the lack of sympathy for the ungrateful muslims (And hindus, if any.) that were killed or survived the disaster? Will a Freepeer make a post like: "How dare you not have suficient sorrow (To suit me.) for these people. I used to live there. I know these people well. You are an ignorant a$$hole!"

Will we see a post like "How would you feel if the one and only French nuke carrier was able to boil up enough steam to make it to Florida to offer aid to hurricane victims, and it overstayed it's welcome? And the French had the gall to ask to do flight training in U.S. airspace?"

None of this will happen, will it?

35 posted on 01/13/2005 12:29:23 AM PST by Daaave ( I'm afraid, Dave. Dave, my mind is going. I can feel it.)
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To: Daaave

"Will we see a post like "How would you feel if the one and only French nuke carrier was able to boil up enough steam to make it to Florida to offer aid to hurricane victims, and it overstayed it's welcome? And the French had the gall to ask to do flight training in U.S. airspace?"

Well you ASSUME we wouldn't be gratefull for the assistance first of all. And how have we overstayed our welcome...We just got there! All we wanted was for our boys to be able to continue to train. That's what they were doing before they were diverted. All we wanted was to keep our boys sharp by letting them continue to train. We would have still been delivering aid. Get a clue please!


36 posted on 01/13/2005 12:34:31 AM PST by YoungBlackRepublican (Being African Amercian doesn't mean you HAVE TO VOTE DEMOCRAT!)
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To: patriot_miss_ill

"hey indo's you want our food and money well ya gotta have f-18 in your airspace as well, that the deal!!!.... we yanks get what we want and if we cant get well we take and make up excuses like WMD and then take so be carefull ungratefull inbreds..."

If you wish to stay on this site and spew nonsense..a bit of subtlety helps anti American diatribes get under the radar.



37 posted on 01/13/2005 12:36:36 AM PST by MEG33 (GOD BLESS OUR ARMED FORCES)
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To: Daaave
Will a Freepeer make a post like: "How dare you not have suficient sorrow (To suit me.) for these people. I used to live there. I know these people well. You are an ignorant a$$hole!"

Probably more, like I know these people well. You are not a true Christian if you didn't donate.

38 posted on 01/13/2005 12:40:02 AM PST by Retief
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To: kattracks

No problem, but our money should go with us.


39 posted on 01/13/2005 12:42:17 AM PST by Manic_Episode (I don't lose my composure in a high speed chase)
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To: Octar

No they hate western civilization and its founders. It is not our behavior that they hate.

It is us.

They are implacable. The sooner people realize that the better off they will be.


40 posted on 01/13/2005 12:50:40 AM PST by demecleze
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To: YoungBlackRepublican
YoungBlackRepublican,

I was mocking other posts in other threads. One poster asked how we would feel with the french in Florida.

I guess you hadn't read any of the posts I am mocking?

I guess I should have added more clues for the truely clueless.

I am sorry you were confused and mistaken about me.

41 posted on 01/13/2005 12:51:44 AM PST by Daaave ( I'm afraid, Dave. Dave, my mind is going. I can feel it.)
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To: kattracks
This problem demonstrates why there can NEVER be peace in the world. You can't get governments and extremists to set aside their hatreds long enough to receive FREE help during natural disasters.

Starving, poor people are ONCE AGAIN used as punching bags by their own leaders.

Let disease and starvation ravage those countries too hateful to accept assistance.

42 posted on 01/13/2005 12:58:57 AM PST by NoControllingLegalAuthority
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To: kattracks
I think it's a more than reasonable request. We're treading on foreign territory. We should respect their request.

Please remember that we are helping because it's the right thing to do! We shouldn't expect any sort of thanks or any sort of exclusionary treatment by foreign governments.

43 posted on 01/13/2005 12:59:37 AM PST by BROKKANIC
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Comment #44 Removed by Moderator

To: kattracks

Love that line from Airplane; "Chump don't want no help, chump don't get no help".


45 posted on 01/13/2005 1:03:12 AM PST by investigateworld (( just asking))
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To: kattracks

No one really gets it. The bottom line is that we are Infidels. It is the duty of all 'peace loving' Muslims to convert or kill the Infidels amongst them. Just the footsteps of our Infidel shoes and boots on Islamic soil is more offensive than the death of hundreds of thousands of innocents who have died and millions who remain hopeless and homeless. We cannot cower though. Their response shows weakness not strength. We cannot be overcome by their weakness. Instead of downplaying our role in the disaster relief we should emblazon the US banner everywhere in Indonesia, so the people from their own eyes know from whence their salvation comes.
Of course, if we do this the government will ask us to leave and we can leave knowing we tried to do right.
Bin Laden has said his goal is to bankrupt us, so why spend our treasure without at least letting the people know that we are not the enemy!
Truly, we are the only nation on earth with the capacity to really do the job, so let our actions during this tragedy be a message to the UN, Alarmist's and enemies alike that our power is only used for the good of all mankind.


46 posted on 01/13/2005 1:06:43 AM PST by jphawkins
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To: HiTech RedNeck; broadsword

time to face it.
when it comes to the true nature of islam.
Bush is not the brightest bulb.

They want to rot?
We should ship them the gangreen bacterium they are requesting.

Islam is what MUST be wiped out. Not ignorance, not prejudice, not abuse of women and children... those are just the symptoms. ISLAM is the root of hell on earth.

Just look what it does to it's human adherents.


47 posted on 01/13/2005 1:09:43 AM PST by Robert_Paulson2 ("He's NOT a human, he's a holy half-dead")
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To: BROKKANIC

Please remember that we are helping because it's the right thing to do! We shouldn't expect any sort of thanks or any sort of exclusionary treatment by foreign governments.



we should expect thanks.
we should be treated in an exclusive fashion.
we are laying our lives and treasure down for them.
they should be rejoicing at our generousity.
if not, they should rot.

and apparently they will, by choice.
we owe them NOTHING.
we offer them everything.
let their will, be done.


48 posted on 01/13/2005 1:14:03 AM PST by Robert_Paulson2 ("He's NOT a human, he's a holy half-dead")
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To: Daaave
"None of this will happen, will it?"

It didn't take long. See post #43.

49 posted on 01/13/2005 1:21:58 AM PST by Badray (Stay well - Stay safe - Stay armed - Yorktown. RIP harpseal.)
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To: international american
-Agreed.

Our military isn't designed to be meals on wheels. I suppose it would be OK, if Indonesia wanted us there, to help them briefly...but they don't want our military there!

U.S. should help, using private funds donated through private charities. That way it's true charity, not compulsory.

Davy Crockett said it well: "Not yours to give"
http://www.trimonline.org/congress/articles/crockett.htm
50 posted on 01/13/2005 1:35:42 AM PST by FBD
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