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Illegals and the State Department
The Washington Times ^ | 11-13-05 | Editor

Posted on 01/13/2005 11:54:22 AM PST by JZelle

Last week, as we reported on this page, the Mexican Embassy in Washington defended a guide for illegal immigrants that its government publishes. The booklet, "The Guide for the Mexican Migrant," advises illegal immigrants on things like crossing rivers and deserts safely, dealing with U.S. authorities if caught and how to lay low in the United States once across the border. In our view, publishing such a guide aides and abets illegal immigration. When you give safety tips to people violating U.S. immigration law, you are tacitly condoning those violations. So we called on the State Department to register a complaint with Mexican Ambassador Carlos de Icaza. Well, the State Department has responded. Apparently the answer is no. A spokesman said no action has taken place, and declined to tell us whether the department plans to take any measures outside routine meetings with the Mexicans.

(Excerpt) Read more at washingtontimes.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Government; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: aliens; amnesty; illegal; immigrantlist; immigration; sellout

1 posted on 01/13/2005 11:54:23 AM PST by JZelle
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To: JZelle
Gonna have to dig deeper on this one.
Perhaps the State Department funded this comic book,
just like the Department of Education funded Armstrong Williams.
2 posted on 01/13/2005 11:58:09 AM PST by Willie Green (Go Pat Go!!!)
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To: JZelle

Sheesh!


3 posted on 01/13/2005 12:03:34 PM PST by lilylangtree (Veni, Vidi, Vici)
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To: Willie Green

This is a total travesty against the citizens of this country. Thank You Washington, DC.


4 posted on 01/13/2005 12:04:22 PM PST by EagleUSA
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To: 1_Inch_Group; 2sheep; 2Trievers; 3AngelaD; 4.1O dana super trac pak; 4Freedom; 4ourprogeny; ...

ping


5 posted on 01/13/2005 12:06:15 PM PST by gubamyster
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To: JZelle

Squeaky wheel.
This "comic book" needs alot more publicity.


6 posted on 01/13/2005 12:10:08 PM PST by visualops (It's easier to build a child than repair an adult.)
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To: JZelle

I wonder what the Diplomad has to say about this?


7 posted on 01/13/2005 12:23:22 PM PST by GOP_1900AD (Stomping on "PC," destroying the Left, and smoking out faux "conservatives" - Take Back The GOP!)
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Comment #8 Removed by Moderator

To: visualops

I'd like to get a hold of an original copy and have it reproduced and send to every legislator/congress/and demand a respond. I think it will a citizen's revolt in order to get them to see the problem. Until something major happens... they won't do anything.


9 posted on 01/13/2005 12:40:33 PM PST by newfrpr04
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To: JZelle

Well, the State Department has responded. Apparently the answer is no. A spokesman said no action has taken place, and declined to tell us whether the department plans to take any measures outside routine meetings with the Mexicans.<<<

I believe that "We the People" are about to become very angry at this sort of snottiness. We OWN the Government, and they darn sure better start answering to us.


10 posted on 01/13/2005 1:13:24 PM PST by hushpad (Come on baby. . .Don't fear the FReeper. . .)
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To: newfrpr04

Agreed.


11 posted on 01/13/2005 1:14:14 PM PST by hushpad (Come on baby. . .Don't fear the FReeper. . .)
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To: newfrpr04
Here's a copy of the publication (in Spanish -- it's from their website). The advocacy of illegal acts. If that's illegal, this pamphlet is. Of course, their response would be, "It's not illegal here!"
12 posted on 01/13/2005 2:53:21 PM PST by arnoldfwilliams (If it were, it would be: if it could be, it might be; but, as it isn't, it ain't. That's logic.)
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To: EagleUSA; Willie Green; hushpad; All

I just heard on Dobbs that Duncan Hunter took a "group" of other congressmen on a tour of the border. They're getting serious about this. There's a new poll up as well.

http://www.cnn.com/CNN/Programs/lou.dobbs.tonight/

Do you believe legalizing illegal workers will take pressure off U.S. borders, as President Bush suggests?

Yes 4%

No 96%


13 posted on 01/13/2005 3:37:45 PM PST by JustAnotherSavage (Government spends what government receives plus as much as it can get away with-Milton Friedman)
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To: arnoldfwilliams

Thanks.


14 posted on 01/13/2005 4:08:30 PM PST by newfrpr04
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To: JZelle; All

The U.S. State Department believes upward of 17,500 people - some 80 percent of them women and children - are smuggled into the United States each year to labor in bondage or be sexually exploited.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1315151/posts#11


15 posted on 01/13/2005 4:55:31 PM PST by JustAnotherSavage (Government spends what government receives plus as much as it can get away with-Milton Friedman)
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To: JZelle
A spokesman said no action has taken place, and declined to tell us whether the department plans to take any measures outside routine meetings with the Mexicans.

Sounds about right for Bush's State Department. Routine meetings telling the Mexicans how to bring even more illegals into the country, no doubt.

16 posted on 01/13/2005 5:13:48 PM PST by swampfox98 (Michael Reagan: "It's time to stop the flood.")
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To: JustAnotherSavage

I'm willing to bet that number's way too low....


17 posted on 01/13/2005 5:14:15 PM PST by HiJinx (www .ProudPatriots.org ~ Operation Valentine's Day ~ 1/1/05 to 1/21/05)
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To: HiJinx

I suspect most of the numbers about this entire immigration thing are too low.


18 posted on 01/13/2005 5:22:38 PM PST by JustAnotherSavage (Government spends what government receives plus as much as it can get away with-Milton Friedman)
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To: JZelle

Likely there is some kind of extortion going on the the Mexican oligarchs. They could easily make the threat that if they aren't given each and every one of their demands, they will work with Al Queda. Or it's the drug cartel power they hold --- things they know about certain influential people here. Something is going on --- never before has so much authority been given to a foreign government.


19 posted on 01/13/2005 6:25:30 PM PST by FITZ
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To: Willie Green
Perhaps the State Department funded this comic book,

A statement like that goes beyond the usually insanity that comes out of the continual deluge of immigration threads.

20 posted on 01/13/2005 6:28:04 PM PST by COEXERJ145
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To: JZelle

Big Fat BTTT


21 posted on 01/13/2005 8:20:15 PM PST by TLI ( . . . ITINERIS IMPENDEO VALHALLA . . . . . .)
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To: TLI; Willie Green; All

New poll up for you neoracyites. LOL!!



Do you believe legalizing illegal workers will take pressure off U.S. borders, as President Bush suggests?

Yes 6% 244 votes

No 94% 4040 votes

Total: 4284 votes

http://www.cnn.com/CNN/Programs/lou.dobbs.tonight/


And that's after all the FROBL's voted, and voted, and....



http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-backroom/1314180/posts


22 posted on 01/13/2005 9:30:45 PM PST by JustAnotherSavage (Government spends what government receives plus as much as it can get away with-Milton Friedman)
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To: JustAnotherSavage

I saw that poll posted on Lou Dobbs' show while surrounded by Spanish-speakers in the work cafeteria (ceiling-mounted TVs). They were utterly horrified when Rep. Drier held up a prototype Social Security card with embedded photo and magnetic security strip, a measure long overdue. So good to see activist pressure putting at least one politician back on the right path.

I'm afraid my unrestrained cheering for his proposal didn't earn me any new friends among the fraudulently-documented Hispanics today.


23 posted on 01/14/2005 12:21:56 AM PST by NewRomeTacitus
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To: gubamyster; HiJinx; 1_Inch_Group; 4.1O dana super trac pak; ALIPAC; ApesForEvolution; archy; ...
Correction: Dreier is still a weasil, just one that felt it's tail in the wringer. Judge for yourself:

DOBBS: My guest tonight says immigration reform and border security are top priorities. He's introduced two new pieces of legislation, one aimed at stopping the flow of illegal aliens into this country and stopping employers from hiring them. The other proposed legislation deals with criminal aliens clogging our court system.

Joining me now is Congressman David Dreier of California. Congressman Dreier is the chairman of the House Rules Committee, a member of the House Select Committee on Homeland Security. Congressman, good to have you with us.

REP. DAVID DREIER (R), CALIFORNIA: Well, Lou, it's always good to be with you. Happy new year. And let me thank you for your coverage that you all have been providing into the tragic circumstance with Mother Nature out here and to say that you and I still have very important and major disagreements, even though I'm going to try to get you to agree with me on this one issue, and that is the fact that we have obviously seen a tremendous flow of people across the border.

And we know why it is that they come to the United States. They come here seeking economic opportunity. And so I join with my Democratic colleague, Congressman Sylvester Reyes of Texas, who was the chairman of the Hispanic Caucus and a longtime Border Patrol agent, and the legislation calls for the establishment of a counterfeitproof Social Security card which will be necessary for people when they are applying for a new job.

And I call it the Bonner plan, because T.J. Bonner, who has been a guest, he told me, on your program, many times, is the president of the National Border Patrol Council. He believes that we can, Lou, reduce by 98 percent the number of illegal border crossings so that the Border Patrol will be able to focus on what you and I and the other most -- all Americans want them to focus on, and that is our national security.

DOBBS: So in effect, what will happen, Congressman, is that a new identification card, the Social Security card, that will not be capable of being counterfeited, will not only be identification, but it will be required for employers who hire illegal aliens or legal immigrants to check those social security cards with a national data bank.

DREIER: The short answer to your question is no. You've used the term identification twice. I got -- we made one up out of an old Vaughn's card here, and basically the card will consist of the Social Security card. Which, this is what it's been for 1937 years, for 68 years, nothing but a piece of paper. And now what we have is it will be a photo embedded card, with social security on it, an algorithm strip on the back, which simply states whether you're an American citizen exactly, if you're here under a work permit, information that the government already has. But Lou, it has something else at the bottom. It says this is not a national identification card. I was just with my friend...

DOBBS: Well Congressman, in the interest of time, let's be as succinct as we can. You may call it not an identification card, a national identification card, for political purposes, but in point of fact, it is designed not to be counterfeited, correct?

DREIER: Correct.

DOBBS: It would identify the holder?

DREIER: It identifies the holder when they're applying for a new job, go ahead.

DOBBS: Well, I mean, it identifies them period.

DREIER: Lou...

DOBBS: Wait, Congressman, if I may. There's no reason for contravention or argument here. I'm trying to just get the facts out for all of us. The fact is this would give employers a clear channel to a data bank that would say whether that person was legal or illegal and there would be a direct connection, correct?

DREIER: That is correct. But let me tell you why this is not a national identification card. It's not going to be utilized for getting on an airplane. You are gainfully employed. I know Dick parsons told me you're going to be there for a long period of time, you won't need one, because you're not going to be applying for a new job for a long period of time. The fact is, any senior citizen will not have to have one of these cards. Only individuals applying for a new job will need to have this Social Security card. So, that's why it's not a national I.D. card.

DOBBS: The way in which it's used is helpful for identification. Let's go to the second part of this. You're coming straight out the White House here. This isn't in their plan. Have you talked to them? Are they going to support you with this?

DREIER: Yes, I have. I have. I've -- we had a meeting with the president last -- bicameral meeting with him last week focusing on Social Security. I've talked to Karl Rove at length about this issue. And frankly, I listened to a clip from some of my colleagues earlier. We're still in the process of putting together the president's reform proposal, he is, and the Congress will be. I will tell you that a guest worker program must go hand in hand with having this counterfeit proof Social Security card because of the economic demand that exists here. So I think we can come together, Lou. You know, I like to find areas of agreement, that's one of the reasons why I introduced this, so I can finally find an area of agreement with you. And so...

DOBBS: It's a good start, Congressman.

DREIER: Well, we've got a ways to go, but my colleague John Kyl, in the Senate is going will be introducing this next week when the Senate convenes. And I think that we can get support all the way across the board for it.

DOBBS: Well we wish you well with this. It's an important beginning. And hopefully it will find considerable support.

DREIER: And we need to pass the Central American Free Trade of the Americas...

DOBBS: CAFTA. Oh, congressman, congressman. It's like baseball. Your average can be good, but nonetheless, it is an average -- you're making it slide just a bit with me now.

DREIER: I know. It's key to this whole effort of keeping people fleeing from across the border, Lou.

DOBBS: There are a lot of keys here, you know, Congressman. We're going to talk about them in the weeks ahead when you come back and we'll discuss them further. Thank you.

24 posted on 01/14/2005 4:22:40 AM PST by NewRomeTacitus
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To: NewRomeTacitus
I spoke with our HR guy. He says, by law, he can't ask if they are a citizen. He can only ask if the can legally work. Also, they can only match the SS# with the name. They don't verify id.

He also told me that if the same SS# is recorded as sending money into the IRS from different parts of the the country the IRS doesn't flag it or do anything about it. How is this proprosed legislation going to change that, if at all? This legislation is a smokescreen. A pretend job. That's all.

25 posted on 01/14/2005 5:03:45 AM PST by raybbr
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To: JZelle
Wonder how the State Department would react to a similar publication from Al Queida?
26 posted on 01/14/2005 5:08:36 AM PST by azhenfud ("He who is always looking up seldom finds others' lost change...")
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To: NewRomeTacitus

The only problem I can envision of not requiring ALL SSI cardholders to participate is this; suppose I'm to be gainfully employed for the next fifteen years, someone else has my SSI# and fraudulently acquires one of the newer cards, then I need to apply for a new one because I've had a career change. Then what? Either all SSI participants need to be carded for security reasons or the program will have problems....but that's hypothetical.

No, this isn't a national ID - it's a SSI card to be developed with anti-theft measures one may currently similarly obtain with some credit cards.

I'm for the SSI card change and will get mine as soon as it's enacted because, whether I like it or not, the SS# is used in almost every major transaction and this extra security measure just makes common sense. With the financial and personal data off-shoring craze happening today, and those industries dealing with companies who are not subject to US courts' jurisdiction, the new SS card makes even better sense.


27 posted on 01/14/2005 5:32:19 AM PST by azhenfud ("He who is always looking up seldom finds others' lost change...")
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To: azhenfud
The whole SS# system is damaged beyond hope. Unless they intend to reissue numbers to everyone this will not be fixed. To many times our SS#'s have been used and spread around that it is now possible to find them all over. Heck, even the United States Tennis Association used to use your SS# as an id. No one envisioned the importance and the vulnerability to the system until recently.

It's a broken system as is our immigration system. Only goin back and starting all over will we ever get a handle on it. I'm willing for our fed govt. to pay the expense but I doubt the majority of Americans will.

28 posted on 01/14/2005 6:10:39 AM PST by raybbr
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To: NewRomeTacitus

Thanks for posting this the Lou Dobbs article. So this is the preparations for destroying our country via NAFTA, CAFTA, and the FTAA.

NAFTA was a collosal failure otherwise we wouldn't be in this predicament today. So now we are going for more failure. Has there ever been a card or document that cannot be counterfeited?

Are we so stupid to think that with all these treaties that Mexico won't have access to our data base? Just how will we be able to give them our Social Security and Medicare without access in Mexico and South America?


29 posted on 01/14/2005 6:11:13 AM PST by texastoo (a "has-been" Republican)
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To: NewRomeTacitus

Dreir cannot be trusted. Just look at him. He knows he's smart (high IQ) and been getting away with major stuff for years. On his homosexuality and his WSJ/open borders treason. He could give a f that his middle and lower income Californians are deeply impacted by this invasion of illegal aliens. Dreir is a stone cold libertarian elitist of the worts kind.


30 posted on 01/14/2005 6:16:20 AM PST by dennisw (G_D: Against Amelek for all generations.)
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To: raybbr

While true, I'd be anxious to get those who have contentious numbers "together" to sort out the discrepancies among them. Then, should the one who has stolen another's be found guilty, they should have all assets confiscated which were acquired over the period of time since they first used the stolen number, incarcerated for a minimum ten years, and lose all rights to citizenship and access to any taxpayer funded services - permanently.


31 posted on 01/14/2005 6:23:13 AM PST by azhenfud ("He who is always looking up seldom finds others' lost change...")
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To: JZelle

NALEO

http://www.naleo.org/


The National Association of Latino Elected and Appointed Officials is a nonpartisan membership organization whose constituency includes the nation’s more than 6,000 elected and appointed Latino public servants.


32 posted on 01/14/2005 6:31:44 AM PST by philetus (Zell Miller - One of the few)
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To: texastoo

If the database has a photo and description of the holder that could be matched to the one on and digitally embedded in the card, ID theft of SS cards would be virtually eliminated. The age of the holder wouldn't even matter as the photos from the database, the photo embedded in the strip, and the photo on the card would all have to match since each is an exact duplicate.

Here's how: I present my new card with my visable photo on it. If there is any question of ID, the clerk comparing the two scans the card by placing it into the scanner and a split screen reader retreives the national database image and displays it on the right side while the card's embedded digital image is displayed on the left or vice-versa. The image on the card and the two on the screen had better digitally and visably match or if not, the scanner may "confiscate" the card and a report of the discrepancy is made.


33 posted on 01/14/2005 6:40:20 AM PST by azhenfud ("He who is always looking up seldom finds others' lost change...")
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To: JZelle

We need to empower the Mexican (and other) nations to accept responsibility for themselves. Give them ideas on what kind of products can be developed in their countries, and teach them to be self sufficient.

Right now, they are no more than parasites, living off of the hard work Americans have built this country with.

They want a better life YOURS. Remember that.


34 posted on 01/14/2005 7:13:46 AM PST by television is just wrong (Our sympathies are misguided with illegal aliens.)
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To: GOP_1900AD

The diplomat is laughing at us. We are not willing to stand up for ourselves.

Their people come here for a better life, YOURS. The question is, are you willing to give them your life and have nothing.


35 posted on 01/14/2005 7:15:03 AM PST by television is just wrong (Our sympathies are misguided with illegal aliens.)
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To: azhenfud
The image on the card and the two on the screen had better digitally and visably match or if not, the scanner may "conficate" the card and a report of a discrepancy is made.

Then what? Are we going to magically enforce some of our laws that are already on the books regarding falsifying documents?

Most all the document fraud is done with someone who has access to the inside data. Look at the DMV fraud and the employees that have been convicted. With the passage of CAFTA our data base will be open to the rest of South America just like the EU.

36 posted on 01/14/2005 7:15:28 AM PST by texastoo (a "has-been" Republican)
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To: JZelle

This doesnt surprise me I am getting more and more dissatisfied with King Bush every day. He cares less about life, freedom of speech and values. I am starting to think that he is all show. Instead of strengthining America with his political capitol he wants to make us weaker and destroy the middle class with illegal immigration which means higher taxes, failing schools and hospitals, and more crime. Dont worry people eletists know best we are just the simpletons.


37 posted on 01/14/2005 7:32:37 AM PST by sasafras (sasafras (The road to hell is paved with good intentions))
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To: COEXERJ145
A statement like that goes beyond the usually insanity that comes out of the continual deluge of immigration threads.

Thank-you.
The widespread outrage that's expressed against the Administration's obvious stonewalling of this issue makes it challenging to come up with new ways to highlight the extreme measures that Dubya will take to eradicate our borders.

38 posted on 01/14/2005 7:48:11 AM PST by Willie Green (Go Pat Go!!!)
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To: raybbr; azhenfud; texastoo; dennisw
Yes folks, beefing up document security at this point is like closing the barn door long after the horse has gone that great pasture beyond, but continuing the current policy of issuing easily-copyable cards is like a Bush speech mentioning amnesty - one more impetus for the stampede. Every measure to impede it, no matter how small, is worth doing. Much, much more remains to be done about the rampant document fraud problem.

CAFTA and the FTAA will indeed spread the ruin non-wealthy citizens of Mexico and the Southern U.S. has suffered (I thought Reconstruction was over) to all participating countries. These agreements stifle the growth of small businesses (and local economies) while artificially suppressing wages for the benefit of the privileged. To paraphrase one wealthy guy, "Greed-driven policy doesn't stop at the Rio Grande". Free Trade agreements, like our illegal immigration problem, shifts the costs that employers should shoulder to the hapless citizens who don't benefit. That Dreier went out of his way to push a trade agreement that will be detrimental to his constituents illustrates how influential it's proponents are. Not good.

DennisW, in the future please refrain from using the terms "homosexual" and "deeply impacted" in the same short paragraph. Coffee burns my sinuses when I drink it and laugh at the same time. Thanks.

39 posted on 01/14/2005 12:04:35 PM PST by NewRomeTacitus
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To: FITZ
Something is going on --- never before has so much authority been given to a foreign government.

Agree... something seems to be going on. Something is just squirrelly here. I don't care how you wanna count, all you have to do is look around... look in the schools, hospital emergency rooms, WIC offices, streets... you have to be blind not to see "somethings" amiss. Not to mention, good luck finding folks speaking English (especially in food service industry)... and I'm not just referring to the spanish language.

40 posted on 01/14/2005 12:10:32 PM PST by exhaustedmomma (Tancredo said Bush's guest-worker proposal is "a pig with lipstick")
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To: NewRomeTacitus
There are a lot of keys here, you know, Congressman

Uhhuh, yep. And a lot more spineless kumbya one big happy world folks refusing/afraid to use the keys. here's key hole to the KEYS and here are part of the KEYS.

41 posted on 01/14/2005 12:26:08 PM PST by exhaustedmomma (Tancredo said Bush's guest-worker proposal is "a pig with lipstick")
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To: NewRomeTacitus

Interesting. Thanks.


42 posted on 01/14/2005 1:26:15 PM PST by JustAnotherSavage (Government spends what government receives plus as much as it can get away with-Milton Friedman)
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To: NewRomeTacitus

Thanks for posting that. I did see it on the tube. Dobbs had Drier stammering a couple time.


43 posted on 01/14/2005 1:27:18 PM PST by JustAnotherSavage (Government spends what government receives plus as much as it can get away with-Milton Friedman)
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To: exhaustedmomma; JustAnotherSavage

Good links there, EM. Cross Mexico's southern border and avoid getting shot on sight. Cross ours and avoid repatriation and a rarely-enforced fine.

Dobbs obviously does his research in order to ask the right questions without being intimidated by his guests (unlike a certain pompous Friend of Kerry on Fox). How old-fashioned in this age of blow-dried bubbleheads babbling from Telleprompters! May he hold CNN upside down and shake out every nickel due him.


44 posted on 01/14/2005 2:02:17 PM PST by NewRomeTacitus
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To: television is just wrong

Not the "diplomat" but the Diplomad. Diplomad is a pro American blogger who is a lone outpost of sanity within the diplomatic community.


45 posted on 01/14/2005 2:13:48 PM PST by GOP_1900AD (Stomping on "PC," destroying the Left, and smoking out faux "conservatives" - Take Back The GOP!)
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To: NewRomeTacitus; All

New poll up (short time left!)
Do you believe legalizing illegal workers will take pressure off U.S. borders, as President Bush suggests?

Yes 7% 371 votes

No 93% 5320 votes

Total: 5691 votes

http://www.cnn.com/CNN/Programs/lou.dobbs.tonight/


46 posted on 01/14/2005 2:19:58 PM PST by JustAnotherSavage (Government spends what government receives plus as much as it can get away with-Milton Friedman)
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