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Armitage says he and Powell went public to try to sway Bush [State shouldn't agree with White House]
Charleston Gazette ^ | 1-15-05

Posted on 01/14/2005 12:50:32 PM PST by SJackson

BARRY SCHWEID AP Diplomatic Writer

WASHINGTON (AP) -- Baring one of Washington's worst-kept secret, Secretary of State Colin Powell's deputy said he and Powell sometimes went public with their dissenting views to try to influence Bush administration policy.

Richard Armitage, who leaves along with Powell at the end of President Bush's first term, described the process as using the "bully pulpit.''

"Differences of opinion are something you as a citizen and I as a citizen should value in your government,'' Armitage said in an interview with National Public Radio's "Morning Edition'' on Thursday. "You really want it.''

Powell and Armitage, whose friendship was forged decades ago, share foreign policy views that are distinctly more moderate than those of Bush and other key presidential advisers. They also made far more use of media interviews and speeches to promote U.S. foreign policy than their predecessors.

Armitage made clear in the interview that the public appearances had another design, as well -- to reflect and register the views of the State Department as well as influence the shaping of policy.

"When Secretary Powell speaks or when Rich Armitage speaks, we're putting out our views. And we will do so respectfully, of course,'' Armitage said according to a text released Friday by the State Department. "This is what the president paid us for, to bring him our views.''

"And, of course, he can agreee with us or not, as he chooses,'' Armitage said.

Armitage offered no examples of specific areas or issues of disagreement, although his response was to a question that suggested that Powell and he had been at odds with other top administration officials on policies involving North Korea and the Middle East.

Powell is known to have pushed for negotiations with North Korea over its nuclear weapons programs, a strategy Bush adopted after months of review at the beginning of his first term. On the Middle East, Powell sometimes sought more flexibility from Israel, than did the White House, in dealing with the Palestinians.

"You don't want a government that sees everything the same way,'' Armitage said. "That would be bad -- it would lead to bad government, in my view.''


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: armitage; bush43; civilwar; colinpowell; nk; nkorea; northkorea; powell; richardarmitage; statedept
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1 posted on 01/14/2005 12:50:33 PM PST by SJackson
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To: SJackson
Good riddance.
2 posted on 01/14/2005 12:53:46 PM PST by Born to Conserve
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To: Born to Conserve

Hopefully, Condi will clean up the tripe at Foggy Bottom.


3 posted on 01/14/2005 12:57:20 PM PST by pissant
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To: Born to Conserve

Armitage gone yet?


4 posted on 01/14/2005 12:57:57 PM PST by demlosers
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To: dennisw; Cachelot; Yehuda; Nix 2; veronica; Catspaw; knighthawk; Alouette; Optimist; weikel; ...
If you'd like to be on or off this middle east/political ping list, please FR mail me.
5 posted on 01/14/2005 12:58:51 PM PST by SJackson ( Bush is as free as a bird, He is only accountable to history and God, Ra'anan Gissin)
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To: SJackson

What a disloyal schmuck. Imagine doing this to the CEO of a company where you are employed and expecting to get away with it.


6 posted on 01/14/2005 12:59:13 PM PST by peyton randolph (CAIR supports TROP terrorists)
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To: SJackson
"Differences of opinion are something you as a citizen and I as a citizen should value in your government,'' Armitage said . . .

At least as long as it's a Dim Commie Traitor expressing the difference in opinion...

7 posted on 01/14/2005 1:00:19 PM PST by trebb ("I am the way... no one comes to the Father, but by me..." - Jesus in John 14:6 (RSV))
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To: SJackson
One would think that on multiple occasions both Powell and Armitage have had sufficient face time with the president to acquaint him with their opinions and views. If that's the case, then why use the media? Public channels of communication in such a case are for those who do not have sufficient access to other means.
8 posted on 01/14/2005 1:00:40 PM PST by GSlob
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To: peyton randolph
What a disloyal schmuck. Imagine doing this to the CEO of a company where you are employed and expecting to get away with it.

You're right, you'd be fired, sooner rather than later.

9 posted on 01/14/2005 1:01:05 PM PST by SJackson ( Bush is as free as a bird, He is only accountable to history and God, Ra'anan Gissin)
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To: SJackson

So explains why the State Dept is inept and ineffective.


10 posted on 01/14/2005 1:02:56 PM PST by lilylangtree (Veni, Vidi, Vici)
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To: SJackson

< ...in an interview with National Public Radio's "Morning Edition''.. >

Says it all.

Excuse me, but who was it that was whining just last week that Bush only has "yes men" around him?


11 posted on 01/14/2005 1:03:11 PM PST by GOP_Proud (Those who proclaim tolerance have the least for my views.)
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To: SJackson

The effrontery is breathtaking.


12 posted on 01/14/2005 1:03:33 PM PST by dighton
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To: GSlob

< One would think that on multiple occasions both Powell and Armitage have had sufficient face time with the president to acquaint him with their opinions and views. If that's the case, then why use the media? Public channels of communication in such a case are for those who do not have sufficient access to other means. >

The word "undermine" comes to mind.


13 posted on 01/14/2005 1:05:12 PM PST by GOP_Proud (Those who proclaim tolerance have the least for my views.)
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To: GSlob
One would think that on multiple occasions both Powell and Armitage have had sufficient face time with the president to acquaint him with their opinions and views. If that's the case, then why use the media? Public channels of communication in such a case are for those who do not have sufficient access to other means.

Their opinions were heard, just not always heeded. Going public is an effective way to change, or at least thwart, administration policies with which they disagree, rather than execute the Presidents policies. I can think of several Powell pronouncements regarding the middle east which made the President appear either indecisive or a liar.

14 posted on 01/14/2005 1:05:39 PM PST by SJackson ( Bush is as free as a bird, He is only accountable to history and God, Ra'anan Gissin)
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To: Born to Conserve

I knwe Powell was a mistake for Bush from the very beginning, he is as much against the USA as Kerry.


15 posted on 01/14/2005 1:08:09 PM PST by lolhelp
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To: lilylangtree
So explains why the State Dept is inept and ineffective.

From the Administration's perspective. From the State Dept. perspective they're advancing their agenda as effectively as they can.

16 posted on 01/14/2005 1:08:10 PM PST by SJackson ( Bush is as free as a bird, He is only accountable to history and God, Ra'anan Gissin)
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To: lilylangtree

Too bad cause before State I thought both of these men had done so much for this country........I really still like Armitage and though Powell has his ups and downs I respect him for his service and being Chairman of Joint Chiefs...


17 posted on 01/14/2005 1:08:48 PM PST by NorCalRepub
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To: SJackson
"You don't want a government that sees everything the same way,'' Armitage said."

No. It would be antithetical to a dim witted, State Dept. bureaucrat that a single, effective Foreign Policy be enunciated to our allies and foes alike. Who's State Dept. does this guy work for, France's? IMO A real A$$ and I better not see him getting a Medal of Freedom Award soon!

18 posted on 01/14/2005 1:10:10 PM PST by drt1
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To: lolhelp

oh come on now.....you are just being cruel now..... The State Dept by nature always takes a different foot and who do ya think oversaw the 1st Gulf War......Powell did a fine job then. I think anyone who works at State is kind of set up to fail cause of all the liberal lifers in there


19 posted on 01/14/2005 1:11:16 PM PST by NorCalRepub
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To: SJackson

Weren't they the perfect fit for State.


20 posted on 01/14/2005 1:12:45 PM PST by OldFriend (PRAY FOR MAJ. TAMMY DUCKWORTH)
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To: Born to Conserve

I knew Powell was a mistake for Bush from the very beginning, he is as much against the USA as Kerry.


21 posted on 01/14/2005 1:13:53 PM PST by lolhelp
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To: SJackson

Stinkin' rat finks! Won't miss 'em.


22 posted on 01/14/2005 1:18:56 PM PST by GOP_1900AD (Stomping on "PC," destroying the Left, and smoking out faux "conservatives" - Take Back The GOP!)
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To: peyton randolph

Major CLM (Career Limiting Move).


23 posted on 01/14/2005 1:19:44 PM PST by GOP_1900AD (Stomping on "PC," destroying the Left, and smoking out faux "conservatives" - Take Back The GOP!)
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To: GOP_1900AD
Major CLM (Career Limiting Move).

I doubt it. They'll both do fine.

24 posted on 01/14/2005 1:33:01 PM PST by SJackson ( Bush is as free as a bird, He is only accountable to history and God, Ra'anan Gissin)
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To: SJackson
***I can think of several Powell pronouncements regarding the middle east which made the President appear either indecisive or a liar.***

I can also. May be a stretch here but perhaps the only reason Pres Bush didn't send him packing during the first term was the mixed message he wanted to send to the enemy and Powell and Armitage were just the boys to do it. Color me smiling at the thought of them gone.

25 posted on 01/14/2005 1:36:37 PM PST by daybreakcoming
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To: NorCalRepub

......Powell did a fine job then.
And he was taking orders from someone above him, so he obeyed orders, that is what military people do.


26 posted on 01/14/2005 1:44:16 PM PST by lolhelp
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To: lolhelp

well yeah, it was Pres Bush 41 but Powell devised the strategy and let the field General Schwartzkopf devise the tacitcs......remember "cut off the head and the body will die"..........


27 posted on 01/14/2005 1:50:13 PM PST by NorCalRepub
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To: SJackson
so the state department is admitting that they set their own policy agenda instead of implementing the president's like they are supposed to
and the irony is that united nations wannabee bureaucracy will and is getting away with it
28 posted on 01/14/2005 1:55:43 PM PST by JohnLongIsland
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To: SJackson
I thought George Bush was elected President. I didn't even know that Armitage and Powell were on the ballot!

This is another data point on the meaning of a team player. When an issue is on the table, that is the time to present all points of view. However, once a decision has been made, it is back stabbing to take your point of view public and try to undermine the decision that was made.

I guess I'm not surprised at this admission from those involved.
29 posted on 01/14/2005 1:56:15 PM PST by leprechaun9
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To: SJackson
Powell and Armitage, whose friendship was forged decades ago, share foreign policy views that are distinctly more moderate than those of Bush and other key presidential advisers. They also made far more use of media interviews and speeches to promote U.S. foreign policy than their predecessors.

I will be glad to hear no more of Mr. Armitage's "media interviews and speeches."

30 posted on 01/14/2005 2:06:49 PM PST by snowsislander
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To: lolhelp
I knwe Powell was a mistake for Bush from the very beginning, he is as much against the USA as Kerry.

While I have not agreed with all the stances of Powell your comments above are utterly ridiculous! - Powell is a good man and served the President well (for the most part).

He also is 100% not against America and certainly should not be spoken of in the same manner as John Kerry (a man who does not have America's best interest in mind at all).

31 posted on 01/14/2005 2:14:26 PM PST by SevenMinusOne
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To: SJackson
It's not easy to have staff and subordinates that resist everything you want them to do like Powell had. (Yes, in the media's Bizarro World Powell's situation is morphed into Bush's).

The media desperately tried to invent a gulf, and obviously still won't give up the attempt. Considering how dramatically the president changed foreign policy after 9/11 Powell was a loyal subordinate of historical terms at the State Dept.

32 posted on 01/14/2005 2:21:47 PM PST by mrsmith
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To: DevSix

Everyone has an opinion and ours differ. Isn't this a wonderful country, on one will shoot either one of us because we disagree.


33 posted on 01/14/2005 2:30:16 PM PST by lolhelp
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To: SJackson

Glad colin powell is gone. I cannot wait until Condeleeza Rice cleans house.


34 posted on 01/14/2005 2:30:31 PM PST by Paul_Denton
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To: lolhelp
Everyone has an opinion and ours differ. Isn't this a wonderful country, on one will shoot either one of us because we disagree.

Here, here - agree completely with you - and lets both keep up the good fight at getting facts out to beat what has become a completely shameless Democrat Party.

35 posted on 01/14/2005 2:33:22 PM PST by SevenMinusOne
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To: SJackson
IIRC, when Confucius' advice in his state of Lu was not heeded [he was a middle rank official at the time], he resigned his position, left the state of Lu and became a wandering scholar. Not only did he kept his opinions confined to official channels while employed, he did not bad-mouth his former employer even after he left, for he hoped to get employment in another state. Ever since it has been the honorable norm of behavior for dissenting officials. One could even avoid emigrating and does not have to wander around - the times are more lenient nowadays.
36 posted on 01/14/2005 2:39:29 PM PST by GSlob
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To: SJackson

"I'd rather be feckless than relevant."


37 posted on 01/14/2005 3:04:03 PM PST by Stultis
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To: Stultis
Powell and Armitage, average or slightly above average in the jobs they did. Problem is we needed superb men in those jobs. They actually never rose to the challenge, small minds and ineffective leaders both. No matter what one says about these 2, they were basically failures to this Great Country and now they are pensioned off like most of their kind. Their legacy is our State Dep't continues to be a failure and we continue to pay for that!
38 posted on 01/14/2005 3:24:40 PM PST by iopscusa (El Vaquero)
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To: SJackson

I always knew he sucked BUMP!!


39 posted on 01/14/2005 3:41:18 PM PST by conservativecorner
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To: SJackson

Just out of curiosity, isn't the State Department under the Executive branch of government?


40 posted on 01/14/2005 3:42:50 PM PST by Tench_Coxe
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To: mrsmith

You seem to be saying it wasn't Powell rather his staff that resisted the administration's policies. That's possible, these statements don't come from Powell, rather his "staff", Armitage. However he's Secretary of State, it's his responsibility to run the department. Something someone with military experience (and Armitage has extensive military experience as well, Annapolis grad, Viet vet and years at Defense) should be able to do. Unfortunately some of the "disagreements" with GWB pertaining to the middle east came directly from Powell's mouth. A General should know better. He did a much better job on Iraq, irrespective of his own opinions.


41 posted on 01/14/2005 3:43:44 PM PST by SJackson ( Bush is as free as a bird, He is only accountable to history and God, Ra'anan Gissin)
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To: Tench_Coxe
Just out of curiosity, isn't the State Department under the Executive branch of government?

Theoretically. Their job, in public, is to execute policy set by the President. Disagreements belong behind closed doors, not in interviews with the press.

42 posted on 01/14/2005 3:45:12 PM PST by SJackson ( Bush is as free as a bird, He is only accountable to history and God, Ra'anan Gissin)
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To: SJackson

But you don't want a bunch of loose cannons running around State, making foreign policy, either.


43 posted on 01/14/2005 3:46:34 PM PST by hershey
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To: SJackson

Powell and Armitage have it ass backwards. The President paid them to give their views alright, but the President never wanted them to undermine his foreign policy decisions once the President had made a decision after listening to many views on any number of subjects.

"When Secretary Powell speaks or when Rich Armitage speaks, we're putting out our views. And we will do so respectfully, of course,'' Armitage said according to a text released Friday by the State Department. "This is what the president paid us for, to bring him our views.''

"And, of course, he can agreee with us or not, as he chooses,'' Armitage said.

"When Secretary Powell speaks or when Rich Armitage speaks, we're putting out our views. And we will do so respectfully, of course,'' Armitage said according to a text released Friday by the State Department. "This is what the president paid us for, to bring him our views.''

"And, of course, he can agreee with us or not, as he chooses,'' Armitage said.



"When Secretary Powell speaks or when Rich Armitage speaks, we're putting out our views. And we will do so respectfully, of course,'' Armitage said according to a text released Friday by the State Department. "This is what the president paid us for, to bring him our views.''

"And, of course, he can agreee with us or not, as he chooses,'' Armitage said.


44 posted on 01/14/2005 3:47:43 PM PST by conservativecorner
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To: SJackson

The Armitage quotes don't exactly match the title. Armitage could well have been talking about their differing views at a closed door meeting. No quoted mention of taking the differing views public.

45 posted on 01/14/2005 3:49:30 PM PST by FreeReign
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To: Tench_Coxe
Just out of curiosity, isn't the State Department under the Executive branch of government?

That was in the olden days. It's part of the U.N. executive branch now.

46 posted on 01/14/2005 3:51:11 PM PST by FreeReign
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To: FreeReign
The Armitage quotes don't exactly match the title. Armitage could well have been talking about their differing views at a closed door meeting. No quoted mention of taking the differing views public.

Sure he did, he just didn’t give examples of specific areas or issues of disagreement

From the article.

he and Powell sometimes went public with their dissenting views to try to influence Bush administration policy---public

described the process as using the "bully pulpit.''---that clearly implies public pronouncements.

They also made far more use of media interviews and speeches to promote U.S. foreign policy than their predecessors. Armitage made clear in the interview that the public appearances had another design, as well -- to reflect and register the views of the State Department as well as influence the shaping of policy. ---public interviews

47 posted on 01/14/2005 3:54:31 PM PST by SJackson ( Bush is as free as a bird, He is only accountable to history and God, Ra'anan Gissin)
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To: SJackson
"Something someone with military experience (and Armitage has extensive military experience as well, Annapolis grad, Viet vet and years at Defense) should be able to do. "
I think you underestimate the difficulty.

Now I never heard much disagreement from Powell, even ignoring the effect on the State Dept. of the vast changes Bush directed in our foreign policy- Powell had a couple of mild turf battles with Defense in post war Iraq.

You follow Israel much more closely than I do, admittedly there could have been disagreements there that I missed.

48 posted on 01/14/2005 3:57:11 PM PST by mrsmith
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To: SJackson
No quoted mention of taking the differing views public.

From the article. he and Powell sometimes went public with their dissenting views to try to influence Bush administration policy---public described the process as using the "bully pulpit.''---that clearly implies public pronouncements.

I'm a why-not-use-quotes-in-full-context kinda guy. Quoting the phrase "bully pulpit" doesn't tell me anything. If a reporter has a full quote from Armitage bragging about such inappropriate behavior, why would a reporter not use that quote and instead use a measly two word phrase?

Do we have a full transcript on this?

49 posted on 01/14/2005 4:08:39 PM PST by FreeReign
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To: mrsmith

I think he did a good job on Iraq, departmental leaks aren't public pronouncements, which was obviously the most important. The largest number of "gaffes" did relate to the "road map", where he publically contradicted the President on critical points, critical to the non-existant peace process not the US, on several occasions.


50 posted on 01/14/2005 4:11:13 PM PST by SJackson ( Bush is as free as a bird, He is only accountable to history and God, Ra'anan Gissin)
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