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Twenty-one ways "public schools" harm your children
The Education Liberator, Vol. 3, No. 2, February/March 1997 ^ | March 1997 | R.C. Hoiles

Posted on 01/15/2005 6:39:11 AM PST by wgeorge2001

The Education Liberator, Vol. 3, No. 2, February/March 1997

Twenty-one ways "public schools" harm your children by R. C. Hoiles, c1957

R. C. Hoiles was the publisher of the Santa Ana Register, now the Orange County Register, the flagship of media giant, Freedom Communications. We are commemorating the 40th anniversary of Mr. Hoiles publication of his great vituperation against "gun-run schools." It has been edited for length, a process newspaperman Hoiles would understand.

Now, what are the things that government schools dare not teach?

They dare not teach the spirit of the Constitution as set forth in the first official document of the United States, the Declaration of Independence. They dare not teach it because it says that all men, not just the majority, are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

A man isn't free to pursue happiness when the majority in any school district, state or nation can coerce him to pay for a school that he believes violates the principles upon which this government was formed.

The school teachers dare not emphasize this part of the Declaration of Independence. They dare not explain the true meaning of this statement. If they were successful in explaining and teaching the true meaning of these ideologies, there would be no gun-run schools.

Again, they dare not teach that to secure these rights governments are instituted among men, deriving their just power from the consent of the governed. They have to completely repudiate the ideas of the American way of life. They have to teach the old-world philosophy of the divine right of governments, only now they call it the divine right of the majority rather than the divine right of kings.

They dare not teach in government schools the meaning of liberty. It is doubtful whether any teacher in gun-run schools dares define the kind of liberty the Founding Fathers mutually pledged to each other their lives, their fortunes and their sacred honor to support. If the government schools successfully taught the meaning of the liberty our Founding Fathers had in mind, there would be no government schools that starve the intellects of our children.

The government schools dare not teach the meaning of the Golden Rule. If they were successful in getting their pupils to understand that they should not force other people to pay for something they did not want, then they could see that it was a violation of the Golden Rule to force others to pay for their schooling.

They, of course, dare not teach their pupils to believe that if it is wicked and a violation of the Golden Rule for one man to do a thing, it is still wicked and a violation of the Golden Rule if 49 per cent or 99 per cent of the people do the same thing. They, thus, dare not teach the youth that the ideal government, the only kind of government that can be of value to mankind, is one that is limited to the use of defensive force and never has a right, under any circumstances, to initiate force. I want to continue suggesting things that tax-run schools dare not teach.

They dare not teach the First Commandment: "Thou shalt have no other Gods before me" because they are bowing down and worshipping the will of the majority rather than the eternal laws of God that no man made and no man can unmake.

They dare not teach "Thou shalt not covet," because they are violating the Coveting Commandment.

They believe they do not need to teach well enough that people will voluntarily pay their salaries. They get their pay by violence rather than by rendering service well enough so that those who pay them believe they are benefited by their employment.

They dare not teach discipline and self-reliance because they are not disciplining themselves enough to render such service that they can be paid voluntarily. The teachers take the shortcut and use a police club to get their money. That certainly is not discipline, nor is it self-reliance.

They dare not teach thrift and the harm that comes from getting into debt. They dare not do this because the government burdens every child and every person in the United States with a monstrous debt.

They dare not teach respect for individual initiative because government schools are based on lack of respect for other people's initiative. They are based on the theory that "We've got the power and the individual is helpless and we're going to make him pay for anything our agents think is education."

They dare not teach humility and meekness because the means used by government schools are the exact opposite of humility and meekness. Are believers in tax-run schools so sure they are right that they are willing to initiate force to make people support their ideas of education? They see themselves as so exalted that they have lost all humility and meekness. And remember, "He who exalts himself shall become abased."

They dare not teach children to reason. They have to teach them not to recognize a contradiction or a dilemma. If the pupils were taught to reason, they would recognize the tyranny that is bound to follow making people pay for things and ideas they abhor.

They dare not teach the harm that follows socialism, communism, collectivism and fascism for to do so would let pupils realize that aggressive force is part of socialism, communism, collectivism and fascism.

"Hitherto the plans of the educationalists have achieved very little of what they attempted, and indeed we may well thank the beneficent obstinacy of real mothers, real nurses, and (above all) real children for preserving the human race in such sanity as it still posses."

C.S. Lewis

They dare not teach that what man wants must be obtained on a voluntary basis. They dare not teach this because they get what they want on an involuntary basis.

They dare not teach the difference between socialism and private ownership of property. They dare not explain that under socialism the only way a man can benefit is by injuring another, as in the case in compelling people to pay for schools they think will destroy the country.

They dare not explain that in free enterprise, including free enterprise in education, the gain of one is the gain of all.

Tax-run schools dare not teach love and charity because they are using aggressive force. They seem to think that aggressive force is better than persuasion by love and charity.

They cannot teach patience because they are so impatient about getting what they seem to believe is an education that they dare not wait to persuade those who should employ them to pay their salaries.

They cannot teach peace and goodwill because they are an example of the opposite of peace and goodwill. They are an example of initiating force, of threatening to get from others by aggressive force what they think they should get.

They cannot teach that the government is a servant of individuals because they believe it should be supported by giving it a monopoly to use aggressive force to make people pay. They can only teach that it is a master of the individual.

They cannot teach justice because their method of supporting the schools is based on injustice — arbitrary, initiated force.

They cannot teach that each man is responsible for his own life because they deny that by using force to take part of man's energy against his will, and man cannot be responsible for his life unless he has the right to choose. There is nothing more important for parents than their duty to see that their children are treated fairly and have an opportunity to learn from schools that can teach these great moral principles and axioms. It is not the money we're wasting in our tax-run schools that is so important, but it is that our children are not being taught the moral laws that tax-less schools can teach.

It is because children can be taught what is right in tax-less schools and they cannot be so taught in tax-run schools that I am obliged to do what little I can to get parents to see that they are not doing their duty to their children by sending them to tax-run schools.

What we need above everything else is more people devoting more time to seeing that the youth of the land are instilled with belief in the great moral laws, the Golden Rule, and the Declaration of Independence. Government schools cannot teach successfully the will to learn. The best way to teach anything is by example. But the superintendent and managers of the schools themselves are not enough interested in the will to learn to be willing to answer questions as they would before a court to determine whether what they are doing is in harmony with what they profess to believe. If there is anything a man of integrity should want to learn, it is whether what he is doing is in harmony and consistent with what he says.

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TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Government; Miscellaneous; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: culturewars; education; educrats; fasttrack; harmyourchildren; indoctrination; nea; pc; politicalcorrectness; pspl; publicschools; schools; teachers
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Perhaps we must continue to remind ourselves of the continued downhill slide of the public school system. I believe that the government public school system must be replaced,the dept of education destroyed along with the teacher's union (especially the NEA from the pits of hell) and their trial lawyer friends removed forever from their money grubbing lawsuits.
1 posted on 01/15/2005 6:39:11 AM PST by wgeorge2001
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To: wgeorge2001
I went to an excellent public school. I know I will probably get flamed for saying that, since many of you think that's an oxymoron, but it's true. There are good public schools.
2 posted on 01/15/2005 6:42:19 AM PST by kizzdogg
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To: wgeorge2001

Schools should be renamed Socialist Indoctrination Centers.


3 posted on 01/15/2005 6:44:18 AM PST by Piquaboy (22 year veteran of the Army, Air Force and Navy, Pray for all our military .)
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To: wgeorge2001

in addition to the orange county register, hoiles owned the colorado springs gazette, and other media holdings.

his were great papers.

unfortunately, since his death his family has fought over their fortunes. none of them wanted to continue the newspapers. they turned freedom over to hired management.

so now the orange county register is a socialist piece of junk.


4 posted on 01/15/2005 6:46:29 AM PST by ken21 (buenos mucus!)
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To: wgeorge2001

What do you expect from government schools? Socialism is a wonderful thing if you're the government.


5 posted on 01/15/2005 6:46:56 AM PST by ovrtaxt (Are the leftists still allowing us to say 'Happy New Year'?)
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To: Nightshift

pping


6 posted on 01/15/2005 6:51:31 AM PST by tutstar ( <{{--->< http://ripe4change.4-all.org Violations of Florida Statutes ongoing!)
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To: wgeorge2001

Public School sure has changed since I was a kid.


7 posted on 01/15/2005 6:57:03 AM PST by tob2 (Old Fossil and Proud of It!)
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To: wgeorge2001

I have worked in public schools for 15 yrs. I have seen some excellent teachers and some who are just horrible. I agree with Ahnold...merit pay for teachers, no tenure, and no union! Bad teachers cause the whole system to fail.


8 posted on 01/15/2005 6:58:53 AM PST by CAluvdubya (From the RED part of California)
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To: kizzdogg

I went to an excellent public school. I know I will probably get flamed for saying that, since many of you think that's an oxymoron, but it's true. There are good public schools.



Until I know what you mean by "good" in this assertion, it's not possible to test it against some standard of truth. For example, one can say "that gang of robbers was good" in the sense that they were very successful at pulling off heists. That is, they were "good" at what they were gathered to accomplish, in the sense that a successful effort is a "good" effort.

So, tell us, kizz, how do you know a "good" school when you see one, and how is it possible for a public school to satisfy that description?


9 posted on 01/15/2005 7:00:03 AM PST by Blue_Ridge_Mtn_Geek
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To: wgeorge2001

Wow! And to think that was written in 1957! Wonder what he would say if he were to write it today?


10 posted on 01/15/2005 7:01:27 AM PST by tutstar ( <{{--->< http://ripe4change.4-all.org Violations of Florida Statutes ongoing!)
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To: kizzdogg

Yes, there are some good public schools just as there are bad private schools. However, I would bet that the best public school education pales in comparison to the best private education.


11 posted on 01/15/2005 7:02:22 AM PST by volchef (Give a hoot, don't pollute (send your kids to private school))
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To: kizzdogg
thank you! sorry-im typing w/one hand-holding my newborn! Im a conservative history teacher in a good community outside of Rochester ny. there are MANY other conservative teachers and right leaning..lets call them traditionalists(sounds like O'reily)...we are not a socialist indoctrination center...the staff was very split in the last election-hell i think W had more support! hell,even one of our female teachers-who happens to be gay(i know-go figure!) voted for W!
We have a Bible club, our principle has prayed around the flag pole with students, no one pushes me on what or how i teach(liberal gobbledygook)....many more examples can be cited...im just tired of knee jerk school/teacher bashing.

oh-i know there are lefty schools out there-but it is no where near all of them! oopps, someone needs a feeding-and nature did not give me the equipment to do that!
12 posted on 01/15/2005 7:04:55 AM PST by repubzilla
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To: kizzdogg

I also attended an excellent public school. Today I work at an excellent public school in a rural community.

There are some fantastic teachers and there are some who should be fired immediately. Part of the problem is the union, I also think that school vouchers would help clear out the inept teachers. It would force schools to excel or be out of business.


13 posted on 01/15/2005 7:09:24 AM PST by senorita (A real American native)
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To: repubzilla
We need more teachers like you in the public school system!

The best teachers I had were the ones I didn't like at the time. They were "old school" so to speak. They knew their job was there to teach and not to babysit.



I'm sorry because I do bash teachers too, but it is because the latter of them are not like you.
14 posted on 01/15/2005 7:10:48 AM PST by LauraleeBraswell ("Hi, I'm Richard Gere and I'm speaking for the entire world. -Richard Gere)
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To: senorita


I am all for Vouchers.


15 posted on 01/15/2005 7:11:20 AM PST by LauraleeBraswell ("Hi, I'm Richard Gere and I'm speaking for the entire world. -Richard Gere)
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To: kizzdogg

Thats great. Which school was it, what state was it in and What year did you graduate? I too went to an excellent public school, Upper Darby, PA, in 1976.


16 posted on 01/15/2005 7:11:39 AM PST by Nightshift (Ignorance on your part, doesn't require a reply on my part.)
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To: kizzdogg
There are good public schools.

It depends upon what your standards for "good" may be. I submit that, were you familiar with the standards of mid 19th Century education, you would consider the product of public schools to be apalling.

In our school, for example, the standards for a child of eighteen require completion of lower division college chemistry, physics, and biology with calculus as a prerequisite. They demand readings of Herodotus, Homer, Plato, Aristotle, Plutarch, Cicero, Caesar, Tacitus, Gibbon... all the way through Western Civ until the present day.

"Good" depends upon what you decide is good enough. Freedom allows individual parents to take different paths by which standards improve continuously.

17 posted on 01/15/2005 7:18:11 AM PST by Carry_Okie (There are people in power who are really stupid.)
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To: LauraleeBraswell

I'm all for vouchers, too. Fascinating that democrats who want to redistribute wealth and never saw a welfare program thaey didn't like, will consign poor black students to the absolute hell of ghetto schools, rather than give them a few bucks to attend private school. Just one example of the blood on the hands of left wing pigs like Ted Kennedy.


18 posted on 01/15/2005 7:19:58 AM PST by Williams
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To: repubzilla
I have no doubt that there are excellent teachers in public schools. I suggest, however, that such is despite the government education system rather than because of it.
19 posted on 01/15/2005 7:23:03 AM PST by Carry_Okie (There are people in power who are really stupid.)
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To: wgeorge2001
Public school bump! My first two went to Christian schools and have a lackluster faith. Their friends who went to public schools know its real. Both have problems to work through. So does home schooling. None are the answer for every kid.

Most of the article's 21 items are silly arguments.

ampu

20 posted on 01/15/2005 7:24:20 AM PST by aMorePerfectUnion
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To: wgeorge2001

Bump!


21 posted on 01/15/2005 7:29:10 AM PST by The Mayor (When trouble overtakes you, let God take over)
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To: Carry_Okie

Alas, I do agree with you! The overall system is a disgusting mess. Pockets of good schools, with good teachers, in good communities will naturally rise above the cluster*&*^ we call public education!


22 posted on 01/15/2005 7:30:25 AM PST by repubzilla
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To: repubzilla
Consider Post 17.
23 posted on 01/15/2005 7:32:47 AM PST by Carry_Okie (There are people in power who are really stupid.)
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To: Williams



Ted Kennedy and the others like him are a poverty pimps.

Letting criminals out of jail further worsening the Ghetto neighborhoods and putting children in danger.


24 posted on 01/15/2005 7:33:32 AM PST by LauraleeBraswell ("Hi, I'm Richard Gere and I'm speaking for the entire world. -Richard Gere)
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To: kizzdogg

Yes, I agree. My children go to a public school and I'm pleased with the education they're receiving. The teachers do tend to keep their political opinions to themselves, although occasionally, there is one that just can't help it.


25 posted on 01/15/2005 7:37:36 AM PST by OldBlondBabe
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To: wgeorge2001

I would have to guess that public schools are getting more and more like most major colleges; liberal with an agenda. I am not shocked any more when I hear of public schools refusing to teach the declaration of independence while at the same time teaching "alternative" lifestyles and multiculturalism.


26 posted on 01/15/2005 7:39:26 AM PST by cougar_mccxxi
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To: kizzdogg

I believe you and glad you spoke up. Just believe us too; they're are not all good.


27 posted on 01/15/2005 7:40:03 AM PST by The Ghost of FReepers Past (Legislatures are so outdated. If you want real political victory, take your issue to court.)
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To: Nightshift

I went to school on Long Island. East Islip High School, recently graduated on '03.


28 posted on 01/15/2005 7:40:31 AM PST by kizzdogg
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To: wgeorge2001

Oh noooooooooooooooooooooooo


29 posted on 01/15/2005 7:48:31 AM PST by cubreporter
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To: cubreporter

Relax. Every so often the Freep posts something like this to flush out all the loonies.
PS. The initials "RC" stand for "REAL CRAZY".


30 posted on 01/15/2005 7:56:32 AM PST by CBart95
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To: wgeorge2001
I grew up in a family of government (not public-use of public service is voluntary) school teachers.

This article, even as old as it is, shows that we need to eliminate government schools. They cannot be reformed, improved or modified to support liberty, now or in the future.

There are excellent teachers and even minimal-harm (some people would call 'good') government schools. I actually believe that a large majority of teachers are both potentially compentent and have the best of intentions. However they work in a system that is broken.

There is another thread that points to this site, but it is worth re-pointing. It is the Alliance for the Seperation of School and State. There are many wonderful articles that are very insightful.
31 posted on 01/15/2005 7:57:43 AM PST by pop-aye (For every journey, there is a higher path.)
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To: wgeorge2001

And still you'll hear and see written at FR,

"THAT isn't happening in MY pupblic school."

LOL!


32 posted on 01/15/2005 7:59:21 AM PST by nmh (Intelligent people recognize Intelligent Design (God).)
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To: pop-aye

One would think that I would have checked the link before linking right back to the same site.

My apologies to all.


33 posted on 01/15/2005 8:00:32 AM PST by pop-aye (For every journey, there is a higher path.)
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To: CBart95

"Relax. Every so often the Freep posts something like this to flush out all the loonies.
PS. The initials "RC" stand for "REAL CRAZY".



LOL!

"R. C. Hoiles was the publisher of the Santa Ana Register, now the Orange County Register, the flagship of media giant, Freedom Communications. We are commemorating the 40th anniversary of Mr. Hoiles publication of his great vituperation against "gun-run schools." It has been edited for length, a process newspaperman Hoiles would understand."

What's even more tragic are some of the parents out there. They can send them to the best schools and wonder why their kids are failures ... Duh - parents are the MOST influential, but nah, it's the schools fault - LOL! PARENTS are often the larger problem at home.


34 posted on 01/15/2005 8:06:35 AM PST by nmh (Intelligent people recognize Intelligent Design (God).)
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To: Blue_Ridge_Mtn_Geek; kizzdogg
tell us, kizz, how do you know a "good" school when you see one, and how is it possible for a public school to satisfy that description?

I will tell you one "basic" thing that differs from good/bad schools of the present/past: present emphasis = non-directive education = bad; past emphasis = sound and traditional methods = good.

If the method of education used is non-directive education [also called OBE (outcome based education) or affective education, and an ever-changing list of other "names"--you can guess why that's done], which is based on HUMANISTIC PSYCHOLOGY, instead of sound and proven methods [i.e., the traditional methods of teaching by "rote" (memorization), phonics, memorizing math tables, spelling tests, etc.], then, as a general rule, the education received by the student is poor because the emphasis is no longer on learning.

Because of Humanistic Psychology, the teaching methods shifted from learning the basics to an emphasis on FEELINGS and self-esteem.

By the above standard, I received an excellent education at public school. There was no psychological manipulation on how I thought and felt. Instead, the focus was on learning grammar, spelling, memorizing multiplication tables, phonics (instead of the "whole language" approach--which is a proven failure with the majority of children and why California finally dumped the method, no longer allowing its exclusive use and went back to including phonics instruction), history, geography, music, etc.

When attending college as an adult (many years after high school), I was appalled at the poor education received by my "peers" (most noticeable with those who were 10 years + younger than me). Many were placed in remedial classes (including the one in which I was a teacher's assistant (English)), where I learned that most had no understanding whatsoever of grammar; didn't have a clue what a complete sentence was; had atrocious spelling; didn't know how to sound out new words using PHONICS.

The current "system" being used continues to be based on a failed system: non-directive education. And this approach is how new teachers are trained in the teachers' colleges, who, BTW, are products of "it" being used on them.

35 posted on 01/15/2005 8:08:50 AM PST by nicmarlo
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To: kizzdogg
"There are good public schools."

Not going to flame you, but you have to remenber that we all make that judgement based on what level we have set the bar at as far as standards go. If it worked for you, and satisfies your level of standards, then, yes, it was a good public school for you.

This does not mean I think you have low standards or am trying to say my standards are better than yours. They're different. I would say, that I too, had a fairly good experience with the public school system (I only attended PS for high school), but that was over 20 years ago and in a very small, rural school district. We still invited local pastors to lead prayer at graduation ceremonies then. Times have changed.

36 posted on 01/15/2005 8:30:05 AM PST by Pablo64 ("Everything I say is fully substantiated by my own opinion.")
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To: nmh
I agree with you. Now I am a bit biased here being a middle school teacher but you really can see and immediately tell which students have good, involved parents and sadly those that do not. It more often than not comes down to the parents. People should not lump all teachers together-just like people should not lump all "whatevers" (pick a profession) together.

I not only feel I teach history but I also try to impart "life-skills" and try to get my students to see the world around them. I admit it, my perspective is conservative-I never pound it into them politically-its implied...an example was yesterday-We had a discussion on the upcoming MLK day off. we discussed what MLK would think of modern culture-rap music, videos, athletes, excerta...it was a great discussion and a I believe I continued to open a few eyes-we'll see if it sticks.

My point also is that some students have no or sub standard parental influence at home-and I teach in a well off community. Over indulgent, computer, cable TV and whatever else unsupervised in their bedrooms, credit cards at 12 years old,....Parents need to step up as well. Most do...but a lot DON'T! Its really easy to blame teachers for the woes of the country (many are to blame to some degree) but many should listen to the old CCR/clapton song-"Before you accuse me-take a look at yourself!"

We all have tough and challenging careers-imagine your coworkers and their personalities..then imagine them in their teens and stick 25-30 in a classroom....and stick popular culture and other influences in their faces..I love my job, but it does get...interesting at times!

SORRY FOR THE LENGTH-FLAME ON!
37 posted on 01/15/2005 8:30:53 AM PST by repubzilla
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To: kizzdogg
IMO, even the best teachers cannot turn public school (a common but regrettable misnomer) into something that it's not, and that's why it's safe to say public school has problems that can only be ameliorated by leaving the system altogether.

To give an example, public school is sometimes justified as the best and possibly the only way to ensure civic peace in a religiously diverse country like the United States. This rationale works like a bait and switch, because school is an engine of civic disorder far worse than the alternative where people live and **learn** in plain old freedom and religion is allowed to be religion, the organic backdrop that shapes the way we see the world.

One of school's most important effects is to ensure that most people never develop a working vocabulary of morals, liberty, and knowledge, because school preempts all these things in it's day-to-day operations, and it has to conceal that fact from the vast majority of people so that it can survive as an institution.

School has this threefold effect because while purporting to be a sort of publicly-driven "knowledge engine" it actually pushes religious knowledge to the side; it inflicts a long-lasting regimen of drill and compulsion on everybody; and it tries to put knowledge in a box, treating it like a museum specimen that no longer lives or breathes but can be patronizingly "admired" and clinically dissected from a distance. These qualities of school cannot be changed, because that would be the death knell of schooling. So I ask, is there truly a crisis that threatens the civic peace, that makes it necessary to subject people to thirteen years of drill instruction in amoral, ignorant servility?

38 posted on 01/15/2005 8:55:11 AM PST by Mmmike
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To: wgeorge2001
I home school my children...I pulled them out because Monday thru Friday they were going against everything I was teaching them on Sat/Sun. My job as their mother is to prepare them for Gods will in their life which means providing them with an awesome education with Biblical principles.

I'm sure there are some good public schools left but I don't want any of their doctrine put in my children. When it is time for college I also will not sink my money into a liberal think tank.

I have a real problem paying over $3000 a year to a school district I don't use. Why can't I use that money toward my homeschooling?
39 posted on 01/15/2005 8:58:19 AM PST by PaulaB
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To: nmh
PARENTS are often the larger problem at home.

PARENTS are usually products of public schools.

40 posted on 01/15/2005 8:58:30 AM PST by Carry_Okie (There are people in power who are really stupid.)
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To: repubzilla
It more often than not comes down to the parents.

You are forgetting that the parents are products of the schools. The children are in the school FAR longer than they are with their parents during waking hours. Toss in homework and that disparity increases. Thus, if the parents were the problem and the schools the remedy, we would be seeing generational improvement.

We are obviously seeing the converse at an accelerating rate of decay.

41 posted on 01/15/2005 9:02:23 AM PST by Carry_Okie (There are people in power who are really stupid.)
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To: Carry_Okie

I don't believe parents are the problem and schools are the remedy...what do you propose to do? many of my parents are over 40-not exactly recent high school grads...Is there any hope for humanity at all??? Dear Lord close down the schools now and then we can.......(sarcasm!)

Honestly-by saying the problem is public schools and the time spent there-what is the remedy? The problem with students, parents, schools, hell-society itself is so multifaceted-we just have to fight the good fight on ALL fronts...not just nail schools! Thats too easy.


42 posted on 01/15/2005 9:23:24 AM PST by repubzilla
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To: Carry_Okie

Me: PARENTS are often the larger problem at home.

You: PARENTS are usually products of public schools.

Me: I'm a mixture of both but still even I can see where public schools have become public sewers. Mothers that I see everyday while dropping my daughter off to school also went to public school and they won't have there kids there for the same reason.


43 posted on 01/15/2005 9:26:59 AM PST by nmh (Intelligent people recognize Intelligent Design (God).)
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To: repubzilla

You're right and I thank you fro your reply.


44 posted on 01/15/2005 9:28:54 AM PST by nmh (Intelligent people recognize Intelligent Design (God).)
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To: Mmmike

"One of school's most important effects is to ensure that most people never develop a working vocabulary of morals, liberty, and knowledge, because school preempts all these things in it's day-to-day operations, and it has to conceal that fact from the vast majority of people so that it can survive as an institution."

WOW! what school do you teach in. Thats some wild stuff. I must remember to ensure that my students don't "develop a working vocabulary of morals, liberty, and knowledge" next week when I get back to work.

Your points sound as etheral as some liberal crazy talk in universities!

I know their are many screwed up teachers, schools, etc..but you know what? Its like the ENRON thing..people here about corporate screw ups and then they make blanket statements about all corporations...people hear about some wacked out liberal loony school story on Rush, Hannity, or O'reily and they think "boy, all schools are screwed up-its just not the case! If it was we would be in worse shape than we are now. We have to combat the libs-I personally know many who are fighting against the wackos!


45 posted on 01/15/2005 9:32:28 AM PST by repubzilla
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To: wgeorge2001

bttt


46 posted on 01/15/2005 9:39:57 AM PST by aberaussie
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To: Blue_Ridge_Mtn_Geek; kizzdogg

I agree with BRMG. I would like to see how you defined good. I went to a very small public school growing up. I was not challenged until I got into highschool, which means I spent a lot of time in trouble in the lower grades.

Secondly, I had some phenomenal teachers in highschool. They wanted more than anything for me to learn, and to open doors & horizons for me. But, I still had to deal with the social antics of peers, which completely offset what the teachers were doing.

Teen pregnancies were rampant (and this was a small school, everyones' parents went to church); drug and alcohol use were everywhere. Just run out to someone's pickup.

A few years ago, I interacted with my nephew going thru the same school. His skills were minimal compared to what I had by his age. And all of the rest of the "fun" stuff still existed.

Comparing my experience to his, I would say the public school I went to was good. Yet, I left it knowing I would never subject my kids to that atmosphere. And, when I left, I had teachers who knew I would never support public schools again. I had one teacher in particular who wrote a message in my senior year book to not give up on public schools yet.


47 posted on 01/15/2005 9:41:39 AM PST by ican'tbelieveit
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To: ken21
so now the orange county register is a socialist piece of junk."""

There was a period when I had the occasion to read the Colorado Springs newspaper. (Owned by the Orange county paper, I believe?) It was astoundingly pro-liberty. Later it changed - to become milquetoast and boring.

48 posted on 01/15/2005 9:54:35 AM PST by churchillbuff
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To: wgeorge2001
Wow, an article bashing teachers. How original.

Really, if you people have such a problem with public schools, do what I did. Send your kids to private schools. If it is really that important you will find a way to afford it.

49 posted on 01/15/2005 10:07:43 AM PST by mrfixit514
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To: kizzdogg

My school was good in 1963 as well, it is a mess today. When I was there they fired a known communist on the staff for bringing her views into the classroom. Today a teacher who brings his/her liberal views into the classroom receives commendations for social activity. Wear your pink ribbon, fly your rainbow flag, post a sign that homosexuals have a place of refuge in your room, you are mainstream. Complain about standard tests, mandatory flag salutes you are in. The only hope for kids in these schools is help from knowledgable parents at home.


50 posted on 01/15/2005 10:11:59 AM PST by KC_for_Freedom (Sailing the highways of America, and loving it.)
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