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Twenty-one ways "public schools" harm your children
The Education Liberator, Vol. 3, No. 2, February/March 1997 ^ | March 1997 | R.C. Hoiles

Posted on 01/15/2005 6:39:11 AM PST by wgeorge2001

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To: wgeorge2001

Bump!


21 posted on 01/15/2005 7:29:10 AM PST by The Mayor (When trouble overtakes you, let God take over)
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To: Carry_Okie

Alas, I do agree with you! The overall system is a disgusting mess. Pockets of good schools, with good teachers, in good communities will naturally rise above the cluster*&*^ we call public education!


22 posted on 01/15/2005 7:30:25 AM PST by repubzilla
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To: repubzilla
Consider Post 17.
23 posted on 01/15/2005 7:32:47 AM PST by Carry_Okie (There are people in power who are really stupid.)
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To: Williams



Ted Kennedy and the others like him are a poverty pimps.

Letting criminals out of jail further worsening the Ghetto neighborhoods and putting children in danger.


24 posted on 01/15/2005 7:33:32 AM PST by LauraleeBraswell (“"Hi, I'm Richard Gere and I'm speaking for the entire world.” -Richard Gere)
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To: kizzdogg

Yes, I agree. My children go to a public school and I'm pleased with the education they're receiving. The teachers do tend to keep their political opinions to themselves, although occasionally, there is one that just can't help it.


25 posted on 01/15/2005 7:37:36 AM PST by OldBlondBabe
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To: wgeorge2001

I would have to guess that public schools are getting more and more like most major colleges; liberal with an agenda. I am not shocked any more when I hear of public schools refusing to teach the declaration of independence while at the same time teaching "alternative" lifestyles and multiculturalism.


26 posted on 01/15/2005 7:39:26 AM PST by cougar_mccxxi
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To: kizzdogg

I believe you and glad you spoke up. Just believe us too; they're are not all good.


27 posted on 01/15/2005 7:40:03 AM PST by The Ghost of FReepers Past (Legislatures are so outdated. If you want real political victory, take your issue to court.)
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To: Nightshift

I went to school on Long Island. East Islip High School, recently graduated on '03.


28 posted on 01/15/2005 7:40:31 AM PST by kizzdogg
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To: wgeorge2001

Oh noooooooooooooooooooooooo


29 posted on 01/15/2005 7:48:31 AM PST by cubreporter
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To: cubreporter

Relax. Every so often the Freep posts something like this to flush out all the loonies.
PS. The initials "RC" stand for "REAL CRAZY".


30 posted on 01/15/2005 7:56:32 AM PST by CBart95
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To: wgeorge2001
I grew up in a family of government (not public-use of public service is voluntary) school teachers.

This article, even as old as it is, shows that we need to eliminate government schools. They cannot be reformed, improved or modified to support liberty, now or in the future.

There are excellent teachers and even minimal-harm (some people would call 'good') government schools. I actually believe that a large majority of teachers are both potentially compentent and have the best of intentions. However they work in a system that is broken.

There is another thread that points to this site, but it is worth re-pointing. It is the Alliance for the Seperation of School and State. There are many wonderful articles that are very insightful.
31 posted on 01/15/2005 7:57:43 AM PST by pop-aye (For every journey, there is a higher path.)
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To: wgeorge2001

And still you'll hear and see written at FR,

"THAT isn't happening in MY pupblic school."

LOL!


32 posted on 01/15/2005 7:59:21 AM PST by nmh (Intelligent people recognize Intelligent Design (God).)
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To: pop-aye

One would think that I would have checked the link before linking right back to the same site.

My apologies to all.


33 posted on 01/15/2005 8:00:32 AM PST by pop-aye (For every journey, there is a higher path.)
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To: CBart95

"Relax. Every so often the Freep posts something like this to flush out all the loonies.
PS. The initials "RC" stand for "REAL CRAZY".



LOL!

"R. C. Hoiles was the publisher of the Santa Ana Register, now the Orange County Register, the flagship of media giant, Freedom Communications. We are commemorating the 40th anniversary of Mr. Hoiles publication of his great vituperation against "gun-run schools." It has been edited for length, a process newspaperman Hoiles would understand."

What's even more tragic are some of the parents out there. They can send them to the best schools and wonder why their kids are failures ... Duh - parents are the MOST influential, but nah, it's the schools fault - LOL! PARENTS are often the larger problem at home.


34 posted on 01/15/2005 8:06:35 AM PST by nmh (Intelligent people recognize Intelligent Design (God).)
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To: Blue_Ridge_Mtn_Geek; kizzdogg
tell us, kizz, how do you know a "good" school when you see one, and how is it possible for a public school to satisfy that description?

I will tell you one "basic" thing that differs from good/bad schools of the present/past: present emphasis = non-directive education = bad; past emphasis = sound and traditional methods = good.

If the method of education used is non-directive education [also called OBE (outcome based education) or affective education, and an ever-changing list of other "names"--you can guess why that's done], which is based on HUMANISTIC PSYCHOLOGY, instead of sound and proven methods [i.e., the traditional methods of teaching by "rote" (memorization), phonics, memorizing math tables, spelling tests, etc.], then, as a general rule, the education received by the student is poor because the emphasis is no longer on learning.

Because of Humanistic Psychology, the teaching methods shifted from learning the basics to an emphasis on FEELINGS and self-esteem.

By the above standard, I received an excellent education at public school. There was no psychological manipulation on how I thought and felt. Instead, the focus was on learning grammar, spelling, memorizing multiplication tables, phonics (instead of the "whole language" approach--which is a proven failure with the majority of children and why California finally dumped the method, no longer allowing its exclusive use and went back to including phonics instruction), history, geography, music, etc.

When attending college as an adult (many years after high school), I was appalled at the poor education received by my "peers" (most noticeable with those who were 10 years + younger than me). Many were placed in remedial classes (including the one in which I was a teacher's assistant (English)), where I learned that most had no understanding whatsoever of grammar; didn't have a clue what a complete sentence was; had atrocious spelling; didn't know how to sound out new words using PHONICS.

The current "system" being used continues to be based on a failed system: non-directive education. And this approach is how new teachers are trained in the teachers' colleges, who, BTW, are products of "it" being used on them.

35 posted on 01/15/2005 8:08:50 AM PST by nicmarlo
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To: kizzdogg
"There are good public schools."

Not going to flame you, but you have to remenber that we all make that judgement based on what level we have set the bar at as far as standards go. If it worked for you, and satisfies your level of standards, then, yes, it was a good public school for you.

This does not mean I think you have low standards or am trying to say my standards are better than yours. They're different. I would say, that I too, had a fairly good experience with the public school system (I only attended PS for high school), but that was over 20 years ago and in a very small, rural school district. We still invited local pastors to lead prayer at graduation ceremonies then. Times have changed.

36 posted on 01/15/2005 8:30:05 AM PST by Pablo64 ("Everything I say is fully substantiated by my own opinion.")
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To: nmh
I agree with you. Now I am a bit biased here being a middle school teacher but you really can see and immediately tell which students have good, involved parents and sadly those that do not. It more often than not comes down to the parents. People should not lump all teachers together-just like people should not lump all "whatevers" (pick a profession) together.

I not only feel I teach history but I also try to impart "life-skills" and try to get my students to see the world around them. I admit it, my perspective is conservative-I never pound it into them politically-its implied...an example was yesterday-We had a discussion on the upcoming MLK day off. we discussed what MLK would think of modern culture-rap music, videos, athletes, excerta...it was a great discussion and a I believe I continued to open a few eyes-we'll see if it sticks.

My point also is that some students have no or sub standard parental influence at home-and I teach in a well off community. Over indulgent, computer, cable TV and whatever else unsupervised in their bedrooms, credit cards at 12 years old,....Parents need to step up as well. Most do...but a lot DON'T! Its really easy to blame teachers for the woes of the country (many are to blame to some degree) but many should listen to the old CCR/clapton song-"Before you accuse me-take a look at yourself!"

We all have tough and challenging careers-imagine your coworkers and their personalities..then imagine them in their teens and stick 25-30 in a classroom....and stick popular culture and other influences in their faces..I love my job, but it does get...interesting at times!

SORRY FOR THE LENGTH-FLAME ON!
37 posted on 01/15/2005 8:30:53 AM PST by repubzilla
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To: kizzdogg
IMO, even the best teachers cannot turn public school (a common but regrettable misnomer) into something that it's not, and that's why it's safe to say public school has problems that can only be ameliorated by leaving the system altogether.

To give an example, public school is sometimes justified as the best and possibly the only way to ensure civic peace in a religiously diverse country like the United States. This rationale works like a bait and switch, because school is an engine of civic disorder far worse than the alternative where people live and **learn** in plain old freedom and religion is allowed to be religion, the organic backdrop that shapes the way we see the world.

One of school's most important effects is to ensure that most people never develop a working vocabulary of morals, liberty, and knowledge, because school preempts all these things in it's day-to-day operations, and it has to conceal that fact from the vast majority of people so that it can survive as an institution.

School has this threefold effect because while purporting to be a sort of publicly-driven "knowledge engine" it actually pushes religious knowledge to the side; it inflicts a long-lasting regimen of drill and compulsion on everybody; and it tries to put knowledge in a box, treating it like a museum specimen that no longer lives or breathes but can be patronizingly "admired" and clinically dissected from a distance. These qualities of school cannot be changed, because that would be the death knell of schooling. So I ask, is there truly a crisis that threatens the civic peace, that makes it necessary to subject people to thirteen years of drill instruction in amoral, ignorant servility?

38 posted on 01/15/2005 8:55:11 AM PST by Mmmike
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To: wgeorge2001
I home school my children...I pulled them out because Monday thru Friday they were going against everything I was teaching them on Sat/Sun. My job as their mother is to prepare them for Gods will in their life which means providing them with an awesome education with Biblical principles.

I'm sure there are some good public schools left but I don't want any of their doctrine put in my children. When it is time for college I also will not sink my money into a liberal think tank.

I have a real problem paying over $3000 a year to a school district I don't use. Why can't I use that money toward my homeschooling?
39 posted on 01/15/2005 8:58:19 AM PST by PaulaB
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To: nmh
PARENTS are often the larger problem at home.

PARENTS are usually products of public schools.

40 posted on 01/15/2005 8:58:30 AM PST by Carry_Okie (There are people in power who are really stupid.)
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