Posted on 01/18/2005 7:34:13 PM PST by missyme
A new terror is washing over southern Thailand in the wake of the tsunami: ghosts.
Locals say spirits are terrifying them; health experts say the phenomenon is an outpouring of delayed mass trauma.
Volunteer body searchers at the resorts of Phi Phi Island and Khao Lak have been reported as claiming they have heard laughing and singing on a devastated beach only to find darkness and empty sand.
Taxi drivers at Patong on Phuket island swear they picked up a foreign man and his Thai girlfriend going to the airport with all their baggage, only to then look in the rear-view mirror and find an empty seat.
Guards at a beachfront plaza in Patong said one of their men had quit after hearing a foreign woman cry “help me” all night long and similar stories abound of a foreign ghost walking along the shoreline at night calling for her child.
Most Thais are deeply superstitious; many believe ghosts reside in most large trees.
Most families make daily offering at traditional “spirit houses” outside their homes to calm paranormal entities.
Mental health experts warn tsunami survivors have picked up on this cultural factor as a way of expressing mass trauma after living through the deadly waves and witnessing horrific scenes.
“This is a type of mass hallucination that is a cue to the trauma being suffered by people who are missing so many dead people, and seeing so many dead people, and only talking about dead people,” Thai psychologist and media commentator Wallop Piyamanotham said.
He said mental health experts would pay particular attention to people who claimed to have seen ghosts first-hand.
Wallop is organising a team of Thai and international health workers to join other specialists in affected provinces.
Wallop said widespread trauma began to set in about four days after the waves hit.
“This is when people start seeing these farangs (foreigners) walking on the sand or in the ocean,” he said, adding the sightings started about the same time as people “began calling for help, crying, some scared”.
Many people said they could not escape the smell of death or the sights they had seen while assisting in the crisis, he said.
Wallop said the reason almost all ghost sightings appear to involve foreign tourists stems from a belief that spirits can only be put to rest by relatives at the scene, such as was done to many Thai victims.
“Thai people believe that when people die, a relative has to cremate them or bless them. If this is not done or the body is not found, people believe the person will appear over and over again to show where they are,” he said.
Some locals say counselling will not ease their fears.
“I believe in ghosts and I always will. (The tsunami) happened so quickly, the foreigners didn't know what happened and they all think they are still on the beach. They all think they are still on holiday,” Patong bar manager Napaporn Phroyrungthong said.
These poor folks are going to be having nightmares for years.
I have felt some unquiet spirits in my day, notably in New Orleans, LA; and in lower Manhattan, after 9/11. Very haunted NYC after that, of course it is dissipating. You can't really tell if it's them, or you. But I'd imagine that region would be "haunted" for some time.
They better get off that Thai weed!!
There's no denying the feeling can be very real.
I think it was Thai Stick :)
New Orleans is hands down disquieting.
Im very rational, but its spooky if nothing else.
I have several cousins married to various Asians.
All of their families believe in ghosts of ancestors visiting so this doesnt surprise me.
I posted this on another thread about the same topic:
My Thai girlfriend and some of her friends have been working as volunteers down in the south helping out. This is actually a major problem. Thais are very superstitious, especially when it comes to ghosts. Her friend woke up one night screaming. She said she felt hands around her neck trying to choke her. The Thais are not taking this very well and are trying to figure out why the ghosts want to do harm to them. After all, they are there to help the 'ghosts', not hurt them.
Personally I don't believe in ghosts and think it has more to do with overactive imagination, but it is still preventing work from being done there.
I'm sure those poor people believe that they hear or see the spirits of their loved ones or neighbors, but I don't believe in ghosts.
I do believe in spooks. I do believe in spooks. I do, I do, I do believe in spooks.
No offense intended here, but help a non-believer out...
I have never had a supernatural experience or sensed any supernatural phenomenon in my life. Although I have been at death scenes and in tragic, hallowed places, I have yet to experience that sense that other 'beings' are about or around me. Of course, the emotion of a place, tragedy or time can be quite powerful, but a ghostly manifestation would be something entirely different...or am I wrong?
Seems to me that these disaster areas would be quite chilling and dismal for no other reason than the magnitude of the sudden and tragic death. On top of that, most non-Christian countries are loaded with all kinds of pan-theism and boogerman juju so who knows what's what. I'm just wondering what experiences you've had and how they would differ from the usual human emotion in the wake of such stark tragedy.
Thanks.
Actually it`s quite possible they are seeing ghosts. I`m 42 and in my life I`ve had 4 or 5 episodes that I really can`t explain as any other reason than ghosts. Not saying they were ghosts, just something that I feel has no other explanation, and I`m sure I`m not the only one whose had those experiences.
It appears many people in Asian and Latin American countries believe in Ghosts. I don't believe in Ghosts if I did I am sure I would be spooked every night when trying to go to sleep...
The Lion?
I never used to believe in ghosts. In fact, never even thought about ghosts. However after a very close friend died - I had some 'interesting' things happen. These were not bad things, not frightening at all.
How do you know it's a ghost? I am sure there are evil spirits, but you have to summon them to appear to you
Same here, I never believed. Until I saw some things.
Can't say what I saw, but it was not natural happenings.
I believe there are things around that we just don't
have the equipment to recognize.
(I am studying, so pretend I am not online Freeping. Shhh.)
Not Thai, but equally superstitous Irish.
You both describe, in an elliptical fashion, some event that you both say has changed you views on spiritual beings. In both cases, I'll accept that you were disturbed by your experiences, but the very lack of concreteness leaves me wondering.
At different times in my life I have gotten the willies due to one thing or another. The dog barking into thin air; a persistent noise in another part of the house when I was alone; the weight of sadness and mortality walking about in cemetaries. All these things, in my experience, are eventually understood and explainable.
The grim reaper looking back at me from the bathroom mirror when I shave would be a little more difficult to evade...
For generations, there will be a tale of girl standing on the side of the road, soaking wet, hitching a ride to Phuket.
So powerful is the illusion, that it is said that even the 'elect' should remain watchful, lest they too be deceived.
....the dead know not anything....there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom in the grave....the dead in Christ shall rise first.
There are no ghosts, just demons manifesting lying signs and wonders.
Wanting you (us) to believe in unconditional immortality....a lie.
bump
ping
I tend to believe that ghosts may in fact and probably do exist. Ghosts are universally seen in every culture across time -- by many credible people. My world view as a Christian accepts that the universe that we observe is not all that there is and that a non-material human soul exists and is immortal.
The existence of ghosts is supported by scripture in the book of first Samuel. Moreover, string theory in physics suggests that there are multiple universes that exist adjacent to our own, permitting some kind of interaction between the two universes by intelligent forces.
Now, these forces may be demonic trickery and so it is dangerous to seek out ghosts. But, from my own experience after a friend died and the experience of an aunt after my cousin died, I am prepared to believe that ghosts are more than just imagination.
Yes. The Lion may not have any courage, but he did have brains.
Why do you say they are evil? It could very well be just other people from a parallel universe who from time to time interact with ours without realizing it and vice versa. For example I had one episode a few years ago, and I swear I`m not making this up, I was getting ready for work and I heard someone turn on my microwave in the kitchen. I heard the deliberate beeps..beep beep beep..then one last beep and it turned on. NO ONE was in the house, everyone was off to school or at work, yet the damn thing turned itself on. It was not one of those microwaves that you can pre-program to go off at a certain time, and it did not have a short, yet someone turned it on. I heard it, I was ten feet away in the next room, and I went in and shut it off. I know it sounds like something you`d read about in a comedy, but I swear someone programmed it for a few minutes and turned it on and I just tried to make pretend it didn`t happen, just block it out of my head "I did not just witness this". Like I said, I have no explanation for it, it just happened.
Look at my hands and my feet. It is I myself! Touch me and see; a ghost does not have flesh and bones, as you see I have.” Luke 24:39
It is interesting that Jesus did not say there is no such thing as ghosts - he simply showed how his risen body was different.
My thoughts are similar to yours. I wonder as to the state of mind (or soul) at the time of death and how that impact the spirit. If a person dies peacefully (at the end of an illness) with loved ones at their side, there has to be a sense of peace at their time of passing on. If a life ends suddenly, violently what state is that soul in? The fear and sudden anquish at the time of the tsunami, times the number of people affected seems unfathomable. All of those people, suddenly lost at once.
"New Orleans is hands down disquieting.
Im very rational, but its spooky if nothing else."
New Orleans is disquieting, alright - because of certain people there who are alive, not those who are dead. :-/
- knightshadow.
"Why...do cultures with no contact come up with the similar beliefs in ghosts?"
Well, as a guess, I suppose for the same kinds of reasons that cultures without contact have also come up with beliefs in a sun god, moon god, etc. Human beings need to explain and understand. OTOH, why would these same cultures come up with the ideas that spirits inhabit trees and the like. Heck, if that was the case, I'd be in world of hurt from all the pissed off and homeless spirits that I've cast out into the cold, cruel world by cutting down their cozy trees.
No, I'd have to say that the disparity in belief is greater than any agreement except for the major theological points regarding a supreme God and some forces of evil that contest his rule. Now, don't get me wrong - I'm not trying to flame you or anyone else. It's just that I don't understand this stuff - especially when the logic chain seems to me to be so weak. In my thinking, this stuff gets filed away in my mind with UFO's and all the other tabloid fodder. The stories are great, but something breaks down when you start to weigh what people believe and what can be reliably observed.
Those kinds of beliefs and a dollar bill will get you a cup of coffee, but I still doubt the existence of 'haints' and boogermen in the aftermath of tragedies like this. I mean, if there is some kind of cosmic energy that is focussed on this geographical spot because of the drownings, is it licensed to hang out there because of the fear some of the victims felt? What about those that just were destroyed without any sort of rational thought or emotional state whatsoever like those inside buildings that collapsed. Is this kind of death worse than the 1,001 deaths that happend there daily due to cholera or tyhpus or tuberculosis? How about the street kids and homeless beggars that suffer and die in back alleys in good times while jubilant vacationers dine on lobster and fine spirits just meters away. What of the bad karma that the pedophile population and tourist trade in Phuket was pandering to - did the victims of these travesties haunt the area before the tsunami?
I dunno. I cast my vote for extremely stressed people living through a tremendous disaster when all normality ceases. Armed with beliefs in juju and spirits and all sorts of things, weird happenings are bound to be reported but that is a far cry from objective reality.
Just my $0.02
For what it's worth, here's another thread on the same topic: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1323584/posts
If there were no disembodied souls, then there could be no resurrection, only re-creation, on account of the impossibility of intermittent existence.
- A8
OK, here is my aunt's story. She is a strong Christian and as far as I know not one to make stuff up. She sent a Christmas letter out last year urging the readers to consider eternal things more closely. My cousin was an F 15 pilot who was killed in an accident in 1979.
She said that a full year later, she was sitting at the the kitchen table concentrating on paper work for her job as a real estate agent. She was not in a grieving state or thinking about Henry. She claims that all of a sudden she heard Henry's voice call out "Hi Mom." She turned around and no one was there. There was no one in the house. She was sure that it was his voice. She was freaked out by this experience and decided not to tell anyone about it. It was just too weird.
Then, a week later her husband took her aside and said, "Do you believe in ghosts?" She said that she believes in life after death, that is for sure. He then said that that day he heard a voice say, "Hi dad." and that he saw some kind of figure. She had not told him of her experience. If it was just one person, you could say that it was imagined, but when two people share a similar experience I wonder if it could be true.
My post is directed to the article and since I am new here
please forgive me for the way I went about it. I will do better soon.
I live in Min Buri Thailand which is just east of Bangkok.
The main religion here is Buddhism. This being the case I
approve of the monks actions. If it makes that many people
feel better, why not.
After such a shock it can't help but take some of the
terror out of the situation and that is a good thing.
The civilian cooks on Wake Island are Thai, and they tell stories of seeing the ghosts of Japanese soldiers, identifiable by the unique cloth caps of the Imperial Japanese Army.
Ok, I'll handle with care, not just Ecclesiastes though. Besides 1Thessalonians, we see it confirmed as well in Psalms and Daniel. Not to worry, I'll handle those carefully too :)
Why... From what I have read, most ghosts don't realize their dead. Others that know their dead might be sticking around to watchover a loved one or relative.
Ghost harming people is very rare. But this is the reason for the saying "Don't speak ill of the dead," because they might be listening.
One last thought...
If you follow the link in post #36, you'll find a poster on that thread that raises a good question: 'Why don't we have something like this in the wake of the 911/WTC attack?'
This is a really good question. If the theory is correct that a sudden and terrible death increases the chances of a soul being left behind to 'haunt' a place, then the WTC victims should supply about 3,000 such stories. In fact, I'd wager that the pathos and horror of the 911 attack was even greater than the tsunami because of the time frame and gruesome horrors that the victims that didn't die in the immediate crashes faced in the half hour or so it took for the buildings to collapse.
Consider the horror made the place surreal from the start with the symbolism, the buildings height, the spectacular crashes, the burning death that awaited many, the immense pain and suffering by many that tried to get out and couldn't, the stark evil of the twisted murderers that brought it all on, the jumpers terrible leaps and horrifying impacts, the courageous rescuers and perhaps most terrifying of all, the collapse of the towers and the living victims trapped within. Maybe worse would be the trapped souls in the second tower that watched the first collapse and knew that this was their fate as well.
Who knows?
It is only for sure that that 911 was a concentrated and bloody horror too evil to not have left a lot of ghosts - if the theory holds.
WARNING---- COMMON SENSE ALERT ---- WARNING
Of course, you do realize that I am a disembodied spirit communicating these ideas through a medium of electromagnetic vibrations?
LOL
Thanks for your reply. I don't know why I saw these things. It only happens once in a while. They are
very different kinds of things. Twice, I saw human like things and several times I have seen balls of light, and
smears of dark things. They don't bother me and I sure
don't bother them. I'd rather not see them, but I think
that once you have your brain kind of knows how to see
them.
! Samuel 28:8-19
8 So Saul disguised himself, putting on other clothes, and at night he and two men went to the woman. "Consult a spirit for me," he said, "and bring up for me the one I name."
9 But the woman said to him, "Surely you know what Saul has done. He has cut off the mediums and spiritists from the land. Why have you set a trap for my life to bring about my death?"
10 Saul swore to her by the LORD , "As surely as the LORD lives, you will not be punished for this."
11 Then the woman asked, "Whom shall I bring up for you?"
"Bring up Samuel," he said.
12 When the woman saw Samuel, she cried out at the top of her voice and said to Saul, "Why have you deceived me? You are Saul!"
13 The king said to her, "Don't be afraid. What do you see?"
The woman said, "I see a spirit [a] coming up out of the ground."
14 "What does he look like?" he asked.
"An old man wearing a robe is coming up," she said.
Then Saul knew it was Samuel, and he bowed down and prostrated himself with his face to the ground.
15 Samuel said to Saul, "Why have you disturbed me by bringing me up?"
"I am in great distress," Saul said. "The Philistines are fighting against me, and God has turned away from me. He no longer answers me, either by prophets or by dreams. So I have called on you to tell me what to do."
16 Samuel said, "Why do you consult me, now that the LORD has turned away from you and become your enemy? 17 The LORD has done what he predicted through me. The LORD has torn the kingdom out of your hands and given it to one of your neighbors-to David. 18 Because you did not obey the LORD or carry out his fierce wrath against the Amalekites, the LORD has done this to you today. 19 The LORD will hand over both Israel and you to the Philistines, and tomorrow you and your sons will be with me. The LORD will also hand over the army of Israel to the Philistines."
Dispute not because ye see not!
Same thing with Harpers Ferry WV.
that place is frigg'n unsettling.
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