Shooting in Tal Afar (Parents Blown Away Trying to Run Checkpoint; Semi-Barf Alert)

BBC News ^ | 1-18-05 | Chris Hondros

[Flux Capacitor]

Picture Slideshow

US soldiers in Iraq approach a car after opening fire when it failed to stop at a checkpoint. Despite warning shots it continued to drive towards their dusk patrol in Tal Afar on 18 January.

Inside the car were an Iraqi family of seven. The mother and father were killed but their five children in the backseat survived, one with a non-life threatening wound.

[Flux Capacitor]

Really, the main reason I bring up this typical spread of not-so-subtle anti-Americanism from the BBC is to see if anyone out there has heard anything concerning the incident, outside of what the media has reported -- mainly, whether the two parents were trying to make a suicide run, or if they were simply complete frigging idiots.

Either way, I shed no tears for them.

My sister (who is pretty much hopeless) sent this link to me, sobbing that it "breaks her heart" (she blames the soldiers). I'd love to be able to lay on her any inside story there might be to this, in addition to the hard, cold fact that these two parents are entirely responsible for getting themselves killed and orphaning their five kids.

-Dan

[Cornpone]

I saw the story right after it first ran. It was the typical anti-American, anti-freedom, blame ourselves for being Christian barf cr*p. Haven't seen anything since.

[MisterRepublican]

DU is beside themselves with grief about the photo of one the children covered in blood. I wonder what their reaction would be if the parents had loaded their car up with explosives and killed 10 or 20 of our soldiers. I doubt they'd be so upset.

You would think by now everyone in Iraq knows you don't try to speed through a US military checkpoint.

[Thebaddog]

Those soldiers in those shots were not anything more than utter professionals who were hating their jobs at the moment of the photo,IMHO. I'm feeling for the kids who were led down a bad path by their parents for whatever reason, and for our brave soldiers.

[AQGeiger]

Over lunch, I got in an argument with one of my liberal classmates over this news item. In her deluded mind, the soldiers involved were supposed to let the car that refused to stop continue driving. Who cares if it could have been packed with explosives, and the soldiers have to take a vehicle that refuses to stop as a threat? No, they're supposed to notice that the moving car has 5 children in it. The ungrateful, pompous cowards would rather our soldiers take the chance of dying than perform their jobs and protect themselves.

In the interest of full disclosure, I must add that I take this issue personally because my husband is currently deployed in Iraq. I am considered by the pampered little leftists in my school to be unreasonable regarding this issue because I have a personal involvement in it. I don't give a damn if they think I'm unreasonable. The coddled little fools need to hear some words of sense. Twenty years from now, after some of them have had to pay bills and do their taxes for a few years and have become more conservative, they can know that someone talked sense to them and they were too arrogant to listen.

Okay, my rant's off. Sorry. I've spent all day in a required session in which my institution attempted to feed me a liberal social agenda all day.

[MarkT]

Sorry, but even the densest people know to stop when a group of arms soldiers is firing warning shots - the real shame about the man and his wife, is that these idiots bred before they died.

[Virginia Ridgerunner]

Welll, I guess the niwit who was driving should have stopped..... At any rate, they are casualties of war, and our soldiers are blameless for having to do a dirty job in a dirty, dangerous part of the world. I feel bad for them as well as for the kids.

[West Coast Conservative]

I feel bad for the little girl. But, our troops had no idea there were children in the car and the parents wouldn't stop. It could have been a car bomb. They did the right thing.

[Flux Capacitor]

----I'd like to know if the rag heads didn't put them up to it by holding hostage some other member of their family.----

Yet another possibility.

What makes me angriest of all is that people like my sister are more concerned with the well-being of Islamist terrorists than with that of American soldiers, our friends and neighbors, who are over there protecting her sorry ass (I don't recall hearing a word from her after the Mosul mess tent). I wonder if it ever even occurs to her, while she's busy sobbing over the fact that these soldiers took proper and necessary action to protect themselves, that she herself has a relative serving in Iraq.

-Dan

[gcampbell]

The "blame the drivers" posts here are a little much. Imagine the situation:
You're driving home with your kids, on a dark night, in an area where there have been terrorist attacks, gunfights, abductions, etc. Shots are fired at your car - you may or may not see who fired them. Do you a) stop the car in an orderly fashion, or b) hit the gas and try to get out of there?

Of course, the "blame the soldiers" reaction is overblown as well, but people in Iraq are understandably pretty jittery, and it's hard to blame parents for being panicky while they're being shot at.

[Trippin]

This is a good example of how one image can completely distort the overall reality of both this particular incident, and the war in general.

Those soldiers clearly didn't shoot because they were bored. They fired because they thought they will DIE if they don't. From the pictures it looks like it was dark. The soldiers couldn't possibly have seen who was in the car, or guessed the true intentions of it's occupants. With multiple suicide bombings every day - no sane, rational, intelligent person can blame the soldiers for what happened. In fact, I can guarantee you that the soldiers are just as traumatized by what happened as those children are.

Who knows why the parents failed to stop. Perhaps they thought the soldiers were insurgents dressed as US soldiers. Maybe they didn't understand, or panicked. But this isn't a game, folks. Soldiers are human beings too. They want to live. How many soldiers have died because they were TOO hesitant, too willing to give the driver of a speeding car the benefit of the doubt?

[Flux Capacitor]

----You're driving home with your kids, on a dark night, in an area where there have been terrorist attacks, gunfights, abductions, etc.----

I rest my case.

-Dan

[Trippin]

In the end, the people responsible for this tagic accident are the terrorists who create this climate in which you have to shoot first and ask questions later. They are ultimately to blame. Let's not forget that.

I doubt the parents were hoping (or expecting) to get killed, and I seriously doubt the soldiers who shot them were hoping to kill civilians. They're all innocent. Blame the terrorists.

[Trippin]

One more thing...

The leftwing pigs who are exploiting this for political gain are just as sick and demented as the terrorists are.

[Nuzcruizer]

There is probably more to this than is reported.

That being said, if they are too stupid to stop at a check point, then too bad. It could have been a suicide run in order to make the news.

All Iraqi's know you have to stop at the check points. The IP shoot first, ask questions later every single day. You don't see them making the news.
Most checkpoints are the IP or Iraqi military now. Our people don't do many of them anymore.

Why they don't shoot cars full of Rueters, Guardian, and BBC reporters I just don't know.

[rmlew]

Why they don't shoot cars full of Rueters, Guardian, and BBC reporters I just don't know.
Because these enemy propogandists are smart enough to stop when told to.

[Reactionary]

"Shots are fired at your car..."

Really. Warning shots were fired into the air. They weren't fired at their car.

[ValenB4]

That is a well reasoned response. To entirely blame the soldiers and accuse them of being war criminals is inappropriate. The soldiers are in an unenviable situation - it is almost impossible to enforce the peace and set a good example to the people while having to be constantly paranoid that behind every corner is a bomb and behind every Iraqi smile murderous intent.

Likewise, to entirely blame the parents is also inappropriate. Who knows why they were driving the way they were? Maybe they were visiting friends. Maybe they were lost, made a wrong turn, and panicked in the heat of the moment. Perhaps they really did make a simple, dumb mistake. Everyday millions of people do all sorts of innocuously dumb things without getting killed for it. Some empathy is in order.

The bottom line is that this war will end someday. And no matter how it ends, when the smoke is gone and the ruins are repaired, when the Americans have gone home, when the media is no longer there, and the world has forgotten, these children will still be missing their parents. This sad episode is as simple as people being in the wrong place at the wrong time. The whole situation stinks.

[sheltonmac]

----You're driving home with your kids, on a dark night, in an area where there have been terrorist attacks, gunfights, abductions, etc.----

I rest my case

Considering the entire country of Iraq is an area of terrorist attacks, exactly where were they supposed to drive?

[sheltonmac]

It is only because of level-headed responses like yours that I can even tolerate reading many of the threads I see here. I mean that sincerely. Looking at certain posts on this particular thread, I honestly don't know how some of these people can look at themselves in the mirror.

[Lancey Howard]

You would think by now everyone in Iraq knows you don't try to speed through a US military checkpoint.

Precisely.
Darwin is to blame for this tragedy.

[Flux Capacitor]

----Considering the entire country of Iraq is an area of terrorist attacks----

Sigh. Are we in a quagmire, too?

-Dan

[Lancey Howard]

The Iraqis do not suddenly stumble onto military checkpoints in the dark by surprise. The checkpoints are obvious, they are lit up, and they can be seen from a distance. The "got startled and stepped on the gas" excuse doesn't cut it.

There is more to this story. I am starting to buy the suicide/martyr theory.

[Flux Capacitor]

----It is only because of level-headed responses like yours that I can even tolerate reading many of the threads I see here. I mean that sincerely. Looking at certain posts on this particular thread, I honestly don't know how some of these people can look at themselves in the mirror.----

Well, you could always add us to that little Enemies List you have running on your profile....

-Dan

[MJY1288]

My goodness!!! I think the poster you responded to needs to come down off his high horse. An awfully judgmental SOB isn't he?

[sheltonmac]

Yeah, you have me pegged.

[sheltonmac]

Well, you could always add us to that little Enemies List you have running on your profile....

Nah, you're gonna have to work a little harder to earn that privilege. ;-)

[MJY1288]

Your homepage says it all, I see you included me in your critiques of your fellow FReepers spontaneous remarks. YES I have you pegged

[Flux Capacitor]

----Nah, you're gonna have to work a little harder to earn that privilege. ;-)----

OK. Neo-Confederates are inherent racists. ;-)

-Dan

[sheltonmac]

Okay, so I like to collect quotes that make little sense from a conservative, constitutionalist perspective. If that makes me a judgmental SOB, then I guess I'm guilty as charged.

Congratulations on your achievement, by the way.

[longtermmemmory]

Suicide by US Soldier.

The BBC is just Al Jazeera from English taxpayers.

[longtermmemmory]

They know, that is why they did this. It was intentional. You could call this a PR Bomb.

[MJY1288]

I don't know you, and have no memory of ever chatting with you here, but your homepage is an example of something I would expect from a devious liberal. You take single quotes off threads that might not represent what the FReeper was trying to convey and ridicule that person. I just read the thread where you sited me on your homepage, and much like our liberal mainstream media, you single out a quote that doesn't represent what I was trying to say and use it to claim I'm "Ill Informed" or "Unconservative"

Only a shallow person, or a liberal, would take out of context the words of others and place them on your homepage, as if that makes you superior to those you are passing judgment on.

PATHETIC

[rmh47]

Considering the entire country of Iraq is an area of terrorist attacks, exactly where were they supposed to drive?

Actually, that is not true. Although it is inderstandable that you would think so, given the biased media coverage here.

Fourteen of the eighteen provinces in Iraq are as quiet and safe as most any place in the USA. Some areas of the four remaining provinces are dangerous.

[sheltonmac]

Sheesh! If it makes you feel better, I removed your quote. Just hit the "Refresh" button and voila! It's gone!

Now quit worrying and go get some sleep.

[MJY1288]

And the rest of the FReepers you have derided on your homepage?

Leave mine on there and remove the others, that would make me "feel better"

[Pan_Yans Wife]

May God bless those poor children. I don't fault the soldiers. But I do find the parents' demise a waste.

[185JHP]

I don't know what happened, but I suspect the locals were in the wrong. Crazy, nasty, and stupid is no way to go throuh a time of living in a war zone. The people in Iraq should be extremely careful and cooperative when approaching US personnel, and extremely thankful that we've shown so much restraint.

[MJY1288]

My point is, we all say things at times that might not convey our views, and most likeloy are posted while emotions are high. Do a search on the threads posted on 9/11/2001 and see how many people called for nuking the entire middle east. If they were posted on his homepage as humor it would be one thing, but to use single quotes to label fellow FReepers as "Ill Informed" is over the top, and quite juvenile, in my opinion

[Dustbunny]

So long as our people were not hurt, that is all that really matters. They are there to do a job and protecting themselves while doing it is number one.

[MJY1288]

I don't know about you?, but my heart goes out to those 5 kids who lost their parents over this tragic event. I am also pretty sure that the hearts of those U.S. Soldiers, who did what they were trained to do, are grieving with those children as well. I know I would be!

[1rudeboy]

Okay, so I like to collect quotes that make little sense from a conservative, constitutionalist perspective.

Oh really? The one you chose of mine makes perfect sense. Thanks for including it . . . .

[inkling]

I was proud to make his "enemies of the state" list, but was disappointed to be there only once. I'll have to write down some more "thought crimes" for him to reveal to the authorities. ;-)

[WOSG]

The real headline should be:

Innocents die as the cost of terroristic violence

In the end, these unfortunate incidents are a direct consequece of terrorists and their supporters trying to take over towns and neighborhoods, commiting vilence against the authorities and against those standing up for Iraq's democracy.

If there was no terrorism and violence against the coalition and Govt in Iraq, there would be no such incidents.

[WOSG]

It's not that hard. I got on the list for daring to say something nice about the Bush administtration. LOL:

WOSG: "These three fine leaders have been the RIGHT KIND OF CONSERVATIVES FOR OUR CURRENT BIGGEST CHALLENGE - THE WAR ON TERROR. I for one am thrilled with Cheney, Wolfowitz and Rumsfeld and I am proud to have them on the Bush team. They have done all the right things.."

And Jim Robinson got on for telling people to vote Republican. The nerve of the guy!