Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Russia Won't Renounce Hitler-Stalin Deal
NewsMax ^ | 1/24/05 | AP

Posted on 01/23/2005 4:22:43 PM PST by wagglebee

The notorious 1939 pact between Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union that divided up much of eastern Europe is open only to historical re-evaluation, a Kremlin spokesman said Saturday, suggesting that Moscow isn't prepared to support a legally binding renouncement of the agreement.

"At present, only the historical evaluation of the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact is possible," Dmitry Peskov, deputy press secretary to President Vladimir Putin, told reporters. "There is no possibility of its juridical evaluation due to current realities." He did not elaborate, but the statement appears to dampen expectations, created this week by Estonian President Arnold Ruutel, that the Kremlin was ready to disown the pact during the May celebrations in Moscow to mark the 60th anniversary of the Nazi defeat in World War II.

Putin, Ruutel told Estonian national broadcaster Eesti Raadio that Putin had told him that Russia, as the legal successor of the Soviet Union, supported annulling the pact "and considers this the right thing to do."

The Kremlin's statement after the meeting, however, didn't mention the pact, and Kremlin spokespeople initially refused to comment.

Signed in Secret

The 1939 nonaggression pact named for Nazi Foreign Minister Joachim von Ribbentrop and Soviet Foreign Minister Vyacheslav Molotov was signed in secret and carved much of Eastern Europe up between the two countries, including the Baltic countries of Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania, which were placed under the Soviet sphere of control.

Soviet forces occupied the Baltic states in June 1940 but were driven out by the Germans a year later. The Red Army retook the Baltics in 1944 and the three countries were reincorporated back into the Soviet Union. They became independent in the Soviet breakup of 1991, and all three joined the European Union last year.

Peskov said that "from the Russian point of view, the best step in the development of Russian-Estonian relations would be the signing of a political declaration on the fundamentals of relations and a border delineation treaty" during the 60th anniversary celebrations.

Russia has tense relations with the Baltic nations and has ratified a border agreement only with Lithuania. The Baltic nations often accuse Russia of bullying and of failing to adequately acknowledge the Soviet occupation. They have asserted their ethnic and linguistic identities, upsetting their significant ethnic Russian minorities and prompting accusations of unfair treatment from Moscow.

Russia has invited the three leaders to Moscow on May 9 for the World War II anniversary celebrations, but only one, Latvian President Vaira Vike-Freiberga, has agreed to participate and she has called on Russia to denounce the pact.


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Extended News; Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events; Russia
KEYWORDS: balticstates; communism; estonia; evilempire; fascism; germany; hitler; latvia; lithuania; nazis; putin; stalin; ussr; vairavikefreiberga; vikefreiberga
Russia is still upset that their control of Eastern Europe collapsed.
1 posted on 01/23/2005 4:22:44 PM PST by wagglebee
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: wagglebee

This wasn't just a border realignment. Thousands of Latvians, Estonians and Lithuantians were killed, or shipped in boxcars to Siberia.


2 posted on 01/23/2005 4:33:33 PM PST by Land_of_Lincoln_John
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: wagglebee
Pre 1991, the Soviet line was that the Baltic States joined the Soviet Union at their own request. This was taught in the schools there.
3 posted on 01/23/2005 4:36:45 PM PST by Land_of_Lincoln_John
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Land_of_Lincoln_John
Well, when there are thousands of Soviet troops pointing guns at you, there isn't much else you can do.

L

4 posted on 01/23/2005 4:39:55 PM PST by Lurker (Caution: Poster is too old to give a s*** anymore.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: wagglebee

I think the Hitler-Stalin pact was one-sidedly cancelled by Hitler on june 22nd 1941, I don't see the problem here.


5 posted on 01/23/2005 4:47:12 PM PST by William of Orange (slow change may pull us apart...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: wagglebee

Surely that deal, conducted between two mass murdering dictators, has no legal standing in the modern day.


6 posted on 01/23/2005 4:52:11 PM PST by Arkinsaw
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: wagglebee
The first victim was Poland which lost 6 million (20 percent) of its citizens (half of them Jews; half of them Christians) to the Nazis, and then thousands more to the Communists. Stalin had a personal grudge against the Poles because of their defeat of the Red Army in 1920 - in which his own stupidity had played a part.
7 posted on 01/23/2005 5:04:44 PM PST by Malesherbes
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Arkinsaw
Surely that deal, conducted between two mass murdering dictators, has no legal standing in the modern day.

Guess they think so...

I don't hear much about Eisenhower's deals with stalin being brought to light...such as the May 10,1945 "repatriation" ordered by ol'Ike to turn over 25,000 Russian solidiers who had fought for the Allies to stalin, who then executed them...all.

There's lots of history about all sides many people don't know. Really. You'd be surprised.

FMCDH(BITS)

8 posted on 01/23/2005 5:13:11 PM PST by nothingnew (Kerry is gone...perhaps to Lake Woebegone)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: wagglebee

Frankly GW should sign a similar such agreement with em and carve up the middle east.


9 posted on 01/23/2005 5:53:05 PM PST by festus (The constitution may be flawed but its a whole lot better than what we have now.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Malesherbes
and then thousands more to the Communists.

Two problems with your statement. First, it suggest a sequential extermination. The Reds started killing folks as soon as the Nazis did. Second, it understates the number killed by the Communists. It should read 'millions' rather than 'thousands'.

There were about 5.5 to 6 million Polish Civilians killed in World War II. About half were Jewish, most of whom were killed by the Germans. Of the remaining 2.5 - 3 million, about half were killed by the Russians, and half by the Germans, as I recall, although the half and half split might include military folks as well.

10 posted on 01/23/2005 5:58:56 PM PST by PAR35
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: wagglebee

So what would be the practical effect, if any, if the Russians did renounce the PAct?

Something seems implied other than mere symbology.

Does anyone actually *know* whatthe practical effect would be?


11 posted on 01/23/2005 6:03:18 PM PST by JFK_Lib
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: nothingnew
First I've ever heard of the Eisenhower pact you cite,
and if you're suggesting that General Eisenhower KNEW
the repatriated troops would be executed, then you are
sorely mistaken, and I would have to question your entire
assertion.
12 posted on 01/23/2005 6:12:36 PM PST by onyx
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: nothingnew

Operation Keelhaul was the "repatriation" of Russian, Ukrainian, and other peoples who had escaped Stalin's hell on earth behind the retreating German armies. Around five million were sent bak to Uncle Joe with the knowledge they would be exterminated.

FDR and Eisenhower's little gift to Stalin.


13 posted on 01/23/2005 6:39:28 PM PST by eleni121 (Four more years and four more again after that...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: PAR35
Fair comment by PAR35. The Nazis invaded on Septenber 1 and the Communists invaded on the 17th-18th, and it is true that the killings began more or less simultaneously.

And, yes, "thousands" does understate the murders of Poles by the Communists. In November, last year, I visited the new museum in Warsaw dedicated to the Warsaw Uprising of 1944, a moving experience. The murder of Polish patriots by the Red Army and political police kept on long after the official end of WWII as did Polish resistance against Communist domination.

My basic point was that while the Baltic republics were victims of the Hitler-Stalin pact, the Poles were its first victims.

14 posted on 01/23/2005 7:11:46 PM PST by Malesherbes
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: eleni121
"Operation Keelhaul"...you a secret member of a public group like me? If you are, don't mention it here. You'll get so much grief I wouldn't wish on my own worst marxist.

"The Politician" is an eye-opener, no?

FMCDH(BITS)

15 posted on 01/23/2005 7:31:08 PM PST by nothingnew (Kerry is gone...perhaps to Lake Woebegone)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: wagglebee

Hitler already renounced it June 22, 1941 upon the invasion of Eastern Poland and the Soviet Union.


16 posted on 01/23/2005 7:32:39 PM PST by Semper Paratus
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: nothingnew

The russians executed russian POWs in german POW camps too. In the russian army, surrendering was punishable by death.

In fact, they didn't just execute the freed POW, they executed the POWs family living in russia too.


17 posted on 01/23/2005 7:35:37 PM PST by mamelukesabre
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: onyx

I always thought it was FDR, not Eisenhower who sent the Russian soldiers to their deaths. I don't remember any book or professor saying that the president fully knew what was going to happen. Possibly he was too worn out to dwell on it. FDR was half dead for most of his fouth term.


18 posted on 01/23/2005 7:35:42 PM PST by thathamiltonwoman
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: thathamiltonwoman

I think Eisenhower was a general in Europe at the time and it was Roosevelts deal with "Uncle Joe" Stalin.
I also think FDR agreed to honor the Molotov / Ribbentrop agreement.


19 posted on 01/23/2005 7:59:03 PM PST by Abcdefg
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: JFK_Lib

The practical effect would be the basis of Polands eastern
border. Stalin seized Galacia and Western Ukraine in concert with German occupation.


20 posted on 01/23/2005 8:33:17 PM PST by rahbert
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: thathamiltonwoman
Thanks.
Your memory mirrors mine.
I seriously doubt the poster's
assertion regarding General Eisenhower,
particularly because he wrote "ole Ike"
in a pejorative manner.
21 posted on 01/23/2005 9:00:33 PM PST by onyx
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

Comment #22 Removed by Moderator

To: Malesherbes

"The first victim was Poland which lost 6 million (20 percent) of its citizens (half of them Jews; half of them Christians) to the Nazis, and then thousands more to the Communists. Stalin had a personal grudge against the Poles because of their defeat of the Red Army in 1920 - in which his own stupidity had played a part"

WHoa - don't forget World War 1.5 in 1932 when Stalin stole the Breadbasket of Europe and killed 10 million of his Ukrainian enemies. more than all soldiers killed in WWI on both sides.

This certainly gave the impressionable Hitler ideas 10 years later.


23 posted on 01/25/2005 6:20:36 PM PST by blackminorcapullets ("My Plan is Simple - We Win, They Lose" President Ronald Reagan)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: wagglebee

The rally that is mentioned in this article:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/1214723/posts
"Sex Lead Me To Communism"

Was the celebration of this Hitler-Stalin Deal.


24 posted on 03/14/2005 7:21:39 PM PST by Calpernia (Breederville.com)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: KylaStarr; Cindy; StillProud2BeFree; nw_arizona_granny; Velveeta; Dolphy; appalachian_dweller; ...

I had missed this post.

Of interest.


25 posted on 03/14/2005 7:22:20 PM PST by Calpernia (Breederville.com)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Calpernia

Thanks for the ping!


26 posted on 03/14/2005 7:53:03 PM PST by Alamo-Girl
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 25 | View Replies]

To: Calpernia

Bump


27 posted on 03/14/2005 9:42:03 PM PST by nw_arizona_granny (The enemy within, will be found in the "Communist Manifesto 1963", you are living it today.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 25 | View Replies]

To: wagglebee

I had to read this twice. Good grief, that's sad and funny and sad all over again.


28 posted on 03/14/2005 9:43:21 PM PST by Petronski (If 'Judge' Greer can kill Terri, who will be next?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Calpernia

Thanks for the ping...it IS of great interest.


29 posted on 03/14/2005 9:53:42 PM PST by nopardons
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 25 | View Replies]

To: rahbert
The practical effect would be the basis of Polands eastern border. Stalin seized Galacia and Western Ukraine in concert with German occupation.

And it might allow Germany to make a claim for return of Poland's western border lands (Gdansk/Danzig) as well, to say nothing of Kaliningrad/Königsberg. It could have legal repercussions.

30 posted on 03/14/2005 9:59:38 PM PST by FreedomCalls (It's the "Statue of Liberty," not the "Statue of Security.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: nopardons

Are you smiling yet? Or do I have to repost Conspiracy Guy with a pancake?

/teasing!


31 posted on 03/14/2005 10:15:00 PM PST by Calpernia (Breederville.com)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 29 | View Replies]

To: nopardons

Seriously, if you haven't read my post http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1326896/posts?page=24#24

I know it is long and it is written story style vs. informative...it is really worth the read!


32 posted on 03/14/2005 10:15:55 PM PST by Calpernia (Breederville.com)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 29 | View Replies]

To: Calpernia

LOL........this is the kind of ping I greatly appreciate,so yes,I'm smiling. :-)


33 posted on 03/14/2005 10:17:08 PM PST by nopardons
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: FreedomCalls

Like the Ukraine!


34 posted on 03/14/2005 10:17:14 PM PST by Calpernia (Breederville.com)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 30 | View Replies]

To: nopardons

:))


35 posted on 03/14/2005 10:17:49 PM PST by Calpernia (Breederville.com)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 33 | View Replies]

To: Calpernia

I'll check it out....thanks for the link. :-)


36 posted on 03/14/2005 10:18:17 PM PST by nopardons
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 32 | View Replies]

To: Calpernia

:-))


37 posted on 03/14/2005 10:19:07 PM PST by nopardons
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 35 | View Replies]

To: FreedomCalls
And it might allow Germany to make a claim for return of Poland's western border lands (Gdansk/Danzig) as well, to say nothing of Kaliningrad/Königsberg. It could have legal repercussions.

Perhaps Germany would settle for a corridor from Germany to Danzig....oh, nevermind.

38 posted on 03/14/2005 10:22:53 PM PST by Petronski (If 'Judge' Greer can kill Terri, who will be next?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 30 | View Replies]

To: onyx

Eisenhower was commander of Allied forces in Europe, and he ordered the forced repatriations to be carried out as they were part of the treaties between the Allies and the USSR. If you don't believe it, look it up.


39 posted on 03/14/2005 10:23:00 PM PST by ozzymandus
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: wagglebee

The Nazi-Soviet pact led communists in the U.S. to switch from being anti-Nazi, to attacking FDR for warmongering.


40 posted on 03/14/2005 10:43:12 PM PST by nickcarraway
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Petronski

41 posted on 03/14/2005 10:47:49 PM PST by FreedomCalls (It's the "Statue of Liberty," not the "Statue of Security.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 38 | View Replies]

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson