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Holocaust memorial opens in Paris
BBC World News ^ | 23 Jan 2005 | BBC World Report

Posted on 01/24/2005 4:50:41 AM PST by Cornpone

A stone wall engraved with the names of 76,000 Jews who were deported from France to Nazi death camps during World War II has been unveiled in Paris. The "Wall of Names" memorial is located at the entrance to the French capital's newly renovated Holocaust museum.

Some 11,000 of those deported from 1942 to 1944 were children. Nearly all were killed - mostly at Auschwitz in Poland.

French President Jacques Chirac will officially open the site on Tuesday, before flying to Auschwitz.

Mr Chirac will be one of many world leaders present at ceremonies to mark the 60th anniversary of the liberation of the Nazi death camp.

'Prayer to the dead'

More than 2,000 Holocaust survivors and relatives of victims attended the inauguration ceremony in Paris' central Marais district.

They also took part in reading out a prayer to the dead.

The new site is an expansion of two institutions - the Memorial to the Unknown Jewish Martyr and the Centre for Contemporary Jewish Documentation.

"[The Memorial] will help in teaching a story that continues to haunt our everyday life," said its president Eric de Rothschild.

It took two years for several researchers to compile the list, drawing on Nazi secret police records and also Jewish archives.

"This wall keeps our innermost secrets in its stone and delivers them to those who pass," said France's former Health Minister Simone Veil, herself an Auschwitz survivor.

When the memorial officially opens on Tuesday, visitors will also be able to visit the basement crypt where ashes of some of the death camps' victims are kept.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: france; frenchjews; holocaust; hypocracy; jews
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I wonder how long before this gets torched?
1 posted on 01/24/2005 4:50:42 AM PST by Cornpone
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To: Cornpone
I wonder how long before this gets torched?

Two weeks. I'd bet a paycheck on it.

2 posted on 01/24/2005 4:57:55 AM PST by bad company (if guns cause crime, then keyboards cause spelling mistakes)
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To: bad company
"Two weeks. I'd bet a paycheck on it."

Yeah, but that probably won't make the news...wouldn't be good for the EuroReich image.

3 posted on 01/24/2005 4:59:50 AM PST by Cornpone (Aging Warrior -- Aim High -- Hit'em in the Head)
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To: Cornpone

Funny how the French and German *SCUM* call us brutal, war criminals, waging illegal wars, etc, when they either slaughtered or turned a blind eye to the slaughter of millions of innocents.


4 posted on 01/24/2005 5:00:15 AM PST by Conservative til I die
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To: bad company
that long? neo Nazis are everywhere you lift up a stone
5 posted on 01/24/2005 5:00:48 AM PST by Kelly_2000
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To: Cornpone

I've seen a memorial in Paris. There's a modest one already on the Seine.


6 posted on 01/24/2005 5:03:18 AM PST by montag813
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To: montag813
"I've seen a memorial in Paris. There's a modest one already on the Seine."

It's probably the same one. I had a chance to go to Paris while I was living in Europe last year but I thought I'd wait and go when we return to liberate it again. Its so much more fun when the GIs are there:)

7 posted on 01/24/2005 5:08:02 AM PST by Cornpone (Aging Warrior -- Aim High -- Hit'em in the Head)
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To: Cornpone
"It's probably the same one.

No it isn't

8 posted on 01/24/2005 5:16:54 AM PST by Kelly_2000
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To: Conservative til I die
"Funny how the French and German *SCUM* call us brutal, war criminals,

Calling French and German people scum should be beneath true Americans, disagree with their foreign policy YES but call the people on the street scum? what are things coming to.......

9 posted on 01/24/2005 5:19:00 AM PST by Kelly_2000
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To: Conservative til I die
"when they either slaughtered or turned a blind eye to the slaughter of millions of innocents."

My, thanks a lot. I'll pass that comment to the 200,000 dead French soldiers of WW2 and the civilians who died fighting or sabotaging the Nazi war machine. Funny they never get extended the elementary courtesy of being shown a little respect.
10 posted on 01/24/2005 5:23:35 AM PST by Atlantic Friend (Cursum Perficio)
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To: Atlantic Friend

well said, comments like that make my blood boil


11 posted on 01/24/2005 5:26:17 AM PST by Kelly_2000
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To: montag813

And there are small memorials in almost every town and city. But this one will be the first to have so many names on it (and yet, so few when compared to the number of the victims, whether they were Jews, Resistants, Tzigans, or "unpatriotic" Germans).


12 posted on 01/24/2005 5:28:37 AM PST by Atlantic Friend (Cursum Perficio)
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To: Kelly_2000

Thanks. I must say, though, that I share the anger of many Americans with the circus that was French diplomacy during the Iraqi crisis. I'd be happy to see Dominique de Villepin rolled into tar and feathers and booted out of the country.

The new FM said he hoped we had "finally got over the anti-American madness that afflicted the French diplomacy since 2003", and by Jove I sure hope he's right. We owe it to our dead soldiers who shared the same fate fighting the same enemy.


13 posted on 01/24/2005 5:34:11 AM PST by Atlantic Friend
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To: Cornpone
Maybe the time has come for real historical revisionism. There were plenty of Nazi collaborators in France and elsewhere. We have this myth of the widespread resistance but a large part of the country collaborated.
Moving to other regions my uncle swore the local Ukrainian militia was more brutal than the SS. He said the local militias did the dirty work on numerous occasions.
The role of collaborators needs get additional emphasis.
14 posted on 01/24/2005 5:44:16 AM PST by Marano NYC
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To: Atlantic Friend

Hi Atlantic are you French?


15 posted on 01/24/2005 5:52:27 AM PST by Kelly_2000
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To: Atlantic Friend
"Thanks. I must say, though, that I share the anger of many Americans with the circus that was French diplomacy during the Iraqi crisis. I'd be happy to see Dominique de Villepin rolled into tar and feathers and booted out of the country. The new FM said he hoped we had "finally got over the anti-American madness that afflicted the French diplomacy since 2003", and by Jove I sure hope he's right. We owe it to our dead soldiers who shared the same fate fighting the same enemy.

Well said we are in agreement there it seems

16 posted on 01/24/2005 5:53:44 AM PST by Kelly_2000
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To: Marano NYC
"but a large part of the country collaborated.

This is simply not true, France was occupied and while what you may say could apply to the Vichy government. This in no way is the truth when refering to the Free French. Understand the differences as this offends those that where NOT part of the Vichy French puppet regime.

17 posted on 01/24/2005 5:58:47 AM PST by Kelly_2000
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To: Atlantic Friend
"Thanks. I must say, though, that I share the anger of many Americans with the circus that was French diplomacy during the Iraqi crisis.

The only benefactor of a divided US and Europe are the terrorists

18 posted on 01/24/2005 5:59:48 AM PST by Kelly_2000
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To: Atlantic Friend
The new FM said he hoped we had "finally got over the anti-American madness that afflicted the French diplomacy since 2003"

The anti-American madness has not been since 2003. If my personal experience is any guide, the misguided diplomacy resulted from pre-existing anti-American madness.

When we travelled around France in Oct/Nov 2002 it was the first time we encountered UNSOLICITED insults about America. Paris was the exception... I don't believe we encountered one single political comment in our two weeks there. But out in the countryside, it was different. People went out of their way to come over and tell us they didn't like our president or our policies. This happened on the street, in restaurants, and elsewhere when people heard my Americanized French. Without exception, they started out saying something like, "I see you're Americans...you don't like your president, do you?". When we said yes, we did, they proceeded to recoil in horror, as if we were drooling idiots. We learned to simply say he makes us feel safe and try to end the conversation. In all but one instance that worked...the one instance being the woman who followed us down the street yelling that America was going to get the whole world blown up.

Now, keep in mind, this was BEFORE the invasion of Iraq. It was before France undercut the U.S. resolution at the Security Council. It was before the "Weasels" headline in a prominent U.S. newspaper. It was only 14 months after 9/11.

We were thoroughly stunned at the open hostility. We were left wondering what the U.S. had ever done to merit such condescention. Many here have mentioned the U.S. contribution to freeing France in WWII. But we also provided the main defense against Soviet aggression duing the 40 years of the Cold War...while millions of Frenchmen marched and demonstrated against our presence.

Can you help us understand the "Anti American madness"? Perhaps we can get some dialogue started in this poor forum and start to mend some of the damage.

19 posted on 01/24/2005 6:13:36 AM PST by Timeout (What's the chromosome, Kenneth?!)
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To: Timeout
"v

the result of media hype not real fact, the whole thing is a mess and i blame media in both countries as well as poor choices made in France's diplomatic conduct..

20 posted on 01/24/2005 6:44:04 AM PST by Kelly_2000
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To: Kelly_2000

Thanks. I must say, though, that I share the anger of many Americans with the circus that was French diplomacy during the Iraqi crisis. I'd be happy to see Dominique de Villepin rolled into tar and feathers and booted out of the country.

Our new FM said he hoped we had "finally got over the anti-American madness that afflicted the French diplomacy since 2003", and by Jove I sure hope he's right. We owe it to our dead soldiers who shared the same fate fighting the same enemy.


21 posted on 01/24/2005 7:45:42 AM PST by Atlantic Friend
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To: Timeout
"When we travelled around France in Oct/Nov 2002 it was the first time we encountered UNSOLICITED insults about America. Paris was the exception... I don't believe we encountered one single political comment in our two weeks there. But out in the countryside, it was different. People went out of their way to come over and tell us they didn't like our president or our policies."

Wow, that IS a new one for me. Usually the people that are the most biased against the US are the Parisian so-called élite, and the countryside people are friendlier. Nov 2002...I can't even think of a special event that took place in that period that could even begin to explain this hostility. Where were you, by the way ? I hope it's not close to home.
22 posted on 01/24/2005 8:30:07 AM PST by Atlantic Friend
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To: Atlantic Friend

Many of us have relatives who died during World War II trying to save these people from the mess they got themselves into. There seems to be little acknowlegement, much less appreciation, for what they did.


23 posted on 01/24/2005 8:37:12 AM PST by ladyjane
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To: Atlantic Friend
Yes I agree although I also blame the US diplomatic team that let this escalate to this extent. Monsieur Villepin did not speak for all of France, especially those who are tired of Islamic Imperialism and it's encroachment on our culture on a daily basis street by street in France.
24 posted on 01/24/2005 8:42:38 AM PST by Kelly_2000
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To: ladyjane
"Many of us have relatives who died during World War II trying to save these people from the mess they got themselves into.

Mess they got themselves into? fighting a war with a huge aggressor while the USA supplied Germany with industrial assistance? until Pearl Harbor changed things? what a thing to say ......

Also for the record the French returned some 450 pilots back to the UK during the Battle of Britain. Without those pilots the UK would have fallen to the Germans. many US pilots and seamen where included in those rescued.

25 posted on 01/24/2005 8:55:34 AM PST by Kelly_2000
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To: Timeout
People went out of their way to come over and tell us they didn't like our president

This happened to me too.

When Clintoon was in office.

26 posted on 01/24/2005 9:13:36 AM PST by lizma
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To: Atlantic Friend

The woman who followed us up the street was in Sarlat, the Dordogne region. Somewhere else in the Dordogne, we were looking at a magazine prominently displayed at a news stand. It looked just like our TIME magazine, with a very sinister looking Bush on the cover under the headline: "Is this man dangereux?". (The obvious answer was YES!) We were chuckling at it when a total stranger came up and started arguing with us that the headline WAS TRUE! She was waving her hands and shouting...we just walked away.

Another was a woman on a train near Limoges. I also recall a woman in a restaurant in the Loire...maybe Saumur. She and her husband were at an adjoining table. She asked if we were American and then brought up President Bush.
We didn't support him, did we? Well, yes, we told her. She went on shaking her head and asking didn't we see how stupid and unsophisitcated he is? His poor understanding of the world is dangerous...well, you know the rest.

Now that I think about it, it's interesting that they were all women...I can't remember that a man ever brought up politics. Anyway, we had never encountered anything like it. Determined not to let it spoil our fun, we just brushed it off. I'll add that we are not "touristy" Americans. We both speak (poor) French and we never ask for ketchup with our frites. :)


27 posted on 01/24/2005 9:23:55 AM PST by Timeout (What's the chromosome, Kenneth?!)
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To: Timeout
"Now that I think about it, it's interesting that they were all women...

hmmmm

28 posted on 01/24/2005 9:33:26 AM PST by Kelly_2000
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To: Timeout

I remember that "is this man dangerous" cover from the Nouvel Observateur ! How bizarre to think people would get so worked up (is that the correct US expression ?) by it !

Well, this kind of reaction really is a new one to me, I don't think even Reagan provoked such reactions. Wow. I hoped it didn't cast too much a shadow over your vacation - people should be intelligent (and good-mannered) enough to know that you're trying to enjoy some holidays here, and not working to ensure the nation's demise or something like that.


29 posted on 01/24/2005 9:46:26 AM PST by Atlantic Friend
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To: Kelly_2000

Oh, you feel *we* got you into the WWII mess? Interesting.

For the record, tens of thousands of Americans died trying to extricate the French from the mess they were in. And you feel *we* were responsible?

Not surprising it's the French point of view.


30 posted on 01/24/2005 10:24:24 AM PST by ladyjane
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To: Atlantic Friend

It didn't spoil our trip one bit. It was annoying at first, but we decided to ignore it. I seem to recall telling that woman in Saumur that, no, I didn't think Bush was a warmonger...I thought he was sexy! That pretty much shut down the conversation...LOL!


31 posted on 01/24/2005 2:38:48 PM PST by Timeout (What's the chromosome, Kenneth?!)
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To: Atlantic Friend
My, thanks a lot. I'll pass that comment to the 200,000 dead French soldiers of WW2

And I'll pass it on to the 6 million dead Jews at the hands of the German Chancellor Hitler. The French and Germans still despise Jews today, btw.

Funny they never get extended the elementary courtesy of being shown a little respect.

And neither does America for all it's done for Europe.
32 posted on 01/24/2005 6:35:58 PM PST by Conservative til I die
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To: Kelly_2000
You've got a really interesting view on history, IMO.

I guess you can take the microbiologist out of France but you can't take France out of the microbiologist.
33 posted on 01/24/2005 6:42:18 PM PST by Conservative til I die
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To: ladyjane
"Oh, you feel *we* got you into the WWII mess? Interesting. "

I think you rather dishonestly twisted my words there LJ :-(

No one in the US would deny that you arrived a little late in the war, and only when you where also attacked by an enemy you later agreed had to be stopped at any cost. The French where surrounded on 2 fronts by a superior equipped and numbered army. If you think you got France into that mess as you describe it that is your opinion. no one else in France believes that rubbish for a minute. The US continued to supply Germany with industrial goods and exports until the US entered the war. This is a fact you seem to be blurring over with your media stereotypical slurs at France. The only beneficiary as I have said of this attitude is the terrorist who is laughing very hard at your inability to track him down in Europe and your self destructive attitudes to potential allies in the war on terrorism in Europe.

34 posted on 01/25/2005 1:36:02 AM PST by Kelly_2000
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To: Conservative til I die
"And I'll pass it on to the 6 million dead Jews at the hands of the German Chancellor Hitler. The French and Germans still despise Jews today, btw."

Oh so now the French are responsible for Germany Nazi atrocities?

"And neither does America for all it's done for Europe."

This was reciprocal the British and French colonial armies attacked Japanese positions in Indonesia, Micronesia, Polynesia and the rest of the South Pacific and Asian Pacific rim. Just because two countries now have a difference of opinion concerning foreign policy does not mean two countries have forgotten the past. You must stop being such a slave to the media and start to think for yourself, the left wing media in the USA are laughing all the way to the bank. Stop accepting spoon fed stereotypes and open your eyes. the USA is vulnerable form attack based, financed and supported form Europe, we can watch your backs for you, but don't let some media hacks muddy the waters.

As for France despising Jews, I think all countries have their equivalents of the Klu Klux Klan and other far right white supremacists movements, do you imply the USA is free of such scum? of course not

35 posted on 01/25/2005 1:44:35 AM PST by Kelly_2000
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To: Cornpone

No mention of the Roma Genocide as usual. Europe has a selective memory sometimes.

http://www.holocaustforgotten.com/romgypsies.htm


36 posted on 01/25/2005 1:47:38 AM PST by kingsurfer
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To: Conservative til I die

Ehm, excuse me, but are you saying that the Germans and French of today are the same like their ancestors? I mean, are you responsible for bad treatment of slaves? Surely not.

So, unlike the French and Germans regarding the Nazi crimes, you are partly responsible for OP Iraqi Freedom, so live with it. I dunno why you care anyway what the peaceniks say.


37 posted on 01/25/2005 1:48:58 AM PST by Michael81Dus
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To: Kelly_2000

Good to read some reasonable comments, thanks.


38 posted on 01/25/2005 1:49:57 AM PST by Michael81Dus
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To: Atlantic Friend

I was about to ping you, but you´re already here! :-)


39 posted on 01/25/2005 1:50:47 AM PST by Michael81Dus
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To: Michael81Dus
Thanks Michael I can definitely say the same for your comments. I am no peacenick nor American hater I am French with an American husband. I hate the way our two countries have been made to hate each other recently by popular journalism. There are peaceniks on both sides of the Atlantic it is important as you say to put this into perspective.
40 posted on 01/25/2005 2:32:26 AM PST by Kelly_2000
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To: Michael81Dus

Hi, Michael, how are you ?


41 posted on 01/25/2005 2:35:23 AM PST by Atlantic Friend
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To: Conservative til I die
"The French and Germans still despise Jews today, btw."

My, would you happen be a world expert on French and German psyche ? I mean, you should, since you so easily manage to read the collective minds of 150 million people and get to know what they think better than themselves... Did you go to either France or Germany ? And if so, please tell me what were the surefire telltale signs of despise for Jewish people in either country...
42 posted on 01/25/2005 2:40:40 AM PST by Atlantic Friend
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To: Cornpone
I suppose this monument is even bigger than the one that houses the "French Heroes of WWII" memorial they are building in Vichy.

Of course phone booths are bigger than that one.

43 posted on 01/25/2005 2:47:16 AM PST by muir_redwoods
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To: Atlantic Friend
"My, would you happen be a world expert on French and German psyche ?"

it would seem that way LOL

44 posted on 01/25/2005 2:52:39 AM PST by Kelly_2000
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To: Atlantic Friend

Still fine, thanks, what about you? These French- & German-bashers are annoying, because they rather believe in and spread false allegations instead of information.


45 posted on 01/25/2005 4:00:54 AM PST by Michael81Dus
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To: Michael81Dus

to them an allegation and a fact are no different


46 posted on 01/25/2005 4:17:01 AM PST by Kelly_2000
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To: Kelly_2000

... at least when it´s against Germany or France, lol.


47 posted on 01/25/2005 4:23:28 AM PST by Michael81Dus
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To: Michael81Dus

I have to say that French bashing can be fun but when people start to insult the country in terms of its cheese, wine and scenery I will stand up for them.

And as for their Brandy, well it is not comparable.


48 posted on 01/25/2005 4:25:42 AM PST by kingsurfer
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To: Atlantic Friend
And if so, please tell me what were the surefire telltale signs of despise for Jewish people in either country...

Then or now?

49 posted on 01/25/2005 4:26:36 AM PST by mewzilla (Has CBS retracted the story yet?)
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To: kingsurfer

I´m with you. I love French cheese. It´s a shame that you have so lousy sorts of cheese over there in the States. And the imported goods are expensive.


50 posted on 01/25/2005 4:30:20 AM PST by Michael81Dus
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