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'Islamism is The Mother of All Big Lies'
MEMRI ^ | January 24, 2005 | Abu Khawla

Posted on 01/24/2005 10:13:56 AM PST by USF

Tunisian Progressive:'Islamism is The Mother of All Big Lies'

In an article titled "Adolf Hitler on the Making of a Successful Lie," Abu Khawla (Muhammad Bechri), a human rights activist and former chair of the Tunisian section of Amnesty International, claims that Islamism is "a very successful lie," and not "a remarkable social and political force." In his view, "only Arab/Muslim secular forces can effectively undermine Islamism." The following are excerpts from the article: [1]

'The Mother of All Big Lies: Islamism'

"A contributor to a secular forum did well recently in reminding us about Hitler's dictum on how to lie and have a great impact on the masses… This raises a set of interesting questions. Why would a particular lie succeed while others fail? And why would a liar suddenly succeed in a particular period of time and not before that? To answer these questions, we need to understand what makes for a successful lie. I will elaborate on this point first, then I will go on to speculate on the effective way to counter the mother of all big lies: Islamism (or political Islam, since Islamism is nothing but politics in a religious garb).

"Adolf Hitler said: 'the broad mass of a nation will more easily fall victim to a big lie than to a small one.' Hitler also taught us that to succeed, the lie should be told loudly. In case you didn't notice, he would generally start his speeches in a relatively quite manner, [and] then as he starts shouting he gets more and more applause. The foolhardy German masses honestly believed that if their beloved Fuhrer is taking such a pain to talk loudly, he should be telling more truth.

"By these two accounts, Islamism is expected to be a very successful lie, indeed. Amir Taheri estimated the Islamist propaganda machine's bill to be about 100 billion dollars during the last two decades alone, which makes it the largest propaganda machine in history, even larger than the communist propaganda machine during the Soviet era. People wouldn't obviously spend that much unless they know they have to defend a huge lie.

"The mosque (especially the Friday prayer sermon) is particularly used by Islamists to spread their message. [Egyptian progressive] Saadeddine Ibrahim recently lamented how he would face a propaganda machine that uses a network of 150,000 mosques in Egypt. In many countries, Fatwas issued by the Mullahs could be binding on social and political matters, and the religious authorities are granted wide powers for censorship of whatever they consider to be blasphemous.

"In addition, an infiltration of culture and education spheres gives Islamists an upper hand, especially in the conception of school curricula and media programs. And since the early 1990s, a turn to the worst was inaugurated by the advent of satellite TV. In the Arab world, this important tool of communications is so far completely monopolized by fundamentalists."

'The Most Effective Way to Counter a Lie is Obviously to Undermine It'

"To view Islamism as a lie (not a remarkable social and political force, a mistaken belief largely shared in the West) could have many implications on the conception of an effective strategy to counter Islamist terror and win. The most effective way to counter a lie is obviously to undermine it. That is what Ronald Reagan did with communism. As soon as the peoples of the former Soviet Union and central Europe realized that they fell victims to a lie, the communist edifice fell suddenly like a house of cards, without having America to fire a single shot.

"The same is needed with Islamism today. But so far, what is happening is just the opposite. Arab/Islamic governments are rather colluding with the Islamists, hoping that anti-Western diatribes will help deflect the attention of the masses from their own failures. And some of them are even adopting the Islamists' agenda as a way of containment. Examples include denying women rights to vote in Kuwait, and postponing reforms of women codes and educational systems in countries like Algeria and Egypt. To quote the great Tunisian secular thinker Afif Al-Akdhar 'these governments are implementing Islamism without the Islamists.'"

'Freedom in the West Gave Islamist Terror Masters Ample Opportunities to Mount an Effective Propaganda Machine'

"Western countries have also been active in putting oil on [the] fire. Since the creation of the Muslim brotherhood in Egypt, Western democracies chose either to support the Islamists as a counterweight to communism or to adopt a neutral position. In all cases, freedom in the West gave Islamist terror masters ample opportunities to mount an effective propaganda machine.

"One would have hoped that 9/11 will change all that, but to no avail. The media dimension of the so-called 'global war on terror' consisted so far of an America counter-propaganda (Hi Magazine and Radio Sawa for Arab youth, Al-Hurra TV…). Serious doubts, however, remain about the effectiveness of this approach. The declared objective is to disseminate 'American values.' But while this is a noble objective, it is not the effective way to counter political Islam. The reasons are: (1) Most - if not all - of these values are already known to Arabs; as a result, not much will be achieved by re-advertising them, and (2) Many of these values are considered to be decadent (thanks to the powerful impact of the Islamist propaganda). As a result, counter-arguments, especially when they come from American propagandists will almost certainly fall on deaf ears in the Arab/Islamic world."

'Only Arab/Muslim Secular Forces Can Effectively Undermine Islamism'

"To be sure, only Arab/Muslim secular forces can effectively undermine Islamism. As the recent Iranian example clearly shows, attempts to portray modernists as Western stooges will be futile. At the end of the day, truth will always prevail. But so far these forces are kept on the sidelines. In a recent op-ed article, U.S. defense secretary Donald Rumsfeld explained well the need to wage 'a war of ideas.' That may mean there is still hope in sanity. But until that happens, America and the West will be kidding themselves if they believe that the current military campaign alone will lead them anywhere close to their objective of uprooting Islamist terror."


[1] http://www.metransparent.com/texts/abu_khawla_adolf_hitler_on_the_making_successufl_lie.htm, January 2, 2005.



TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: hitler; islam; islamism; islamofascism; koranimals; lie; memri; muslim; muslimes; religionofpeace; rop; trop; wot
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Islam is a lie. More Muslims need to wake up and leave the cult that keeps them oppressed.
1 posted on 01/24/2005 10:13:58 AM PST by USF
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To: USF

The article actually refers to "Islamism", not "Islam". The distinction is that Islam holds that people should practice the religion of Mohammed; Islamism holds that no secular instututions should exist at all.

The same distinction in our culture would be between Christianity and radical fundamentalism.


2 posted on 01/24/2005 10:17:35 AM PST by SedVictaCatoni (<><)
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To: USF

All forms of totalitarianism are based on various fictions. They have fictions to describe how their particular movement helps to unleash the currents of history. They have fictions to "explain" history thus far. They have fictions to tar the non totalitarian world with false accusations and to label the non totalitarian world as "evil" and "in need of liquidation." The entire construct of Islamism and all other totalitarian movements is based on fiction.


3 posted on 01/24/2005 10:18:05 AM PST by GOP_1900AD (Stomping on "PC," destroying the Left, and smoking out faux "conservatives" - Take Back The GOP!)
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To: USF

No one should be surprised by this.


4 posted on 01/24/2005 10:18:19 AM PST by mlc9852
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To: USF
The Allies! Click the Pic!
Click the Pic

5 posted on 01/24/2005 10:19:55 AM PST by Fiddlstix (This Tagline for sale. (Presented by TagLines R US))
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To: USF

(see tagline)


6 posted on 01/24/2005 10:20:14 AM PST by PeterFinn (The only thing I need to know about Islam is how to destroy it.)
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To: USF

Well the biggest lie of Islam, and something you will never hear in the press, is this: These Islamic radicals claim they are after the United States and Israel etc etc etc because these countries are oppressing, or stopping the spread of Islam, and they are in their right by Islamic law to wage Jihad against these countries. By ask yourself this; In what way are we oppressing Islam? There are mosques all over the United States. In what way is Israel doing it? There are Mosques all over Israel. Matter of fact there are Mosques everywhere, all over Europe everwhere except communist countries like China. Why aren`t they waging Jihad against China? you know why? Because they know China wouldn`t hesitate to speak the one language that makes them listen..Death.


7 posted on 01/24/2005 10:21:29 AM PST by Imaverygooddriver (I`m a very good driver and I approve this message.)
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To: SedVictaCatoni

There is, for your information, a great deal of difference between what one would call "Islamic" and what is "Islamist".

Perhaps labelling certain Christians as "Christianist" might be in order here. Unless of course, Christianity has no faults, and Christianity has nothing negative to own up to.


8 posted on 01/24/2005 10:21:44 AM PST by StottNikk
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To: StottNikk
There is, for your information, a great deal of difference between what one would call "Islamic" and what is "Islamist".

Yes. I agree completely. That is precisely what I said in the post you responded to.

9 posted on 01/24/2005 10:22:59 AM PST by SedVictaCatoni (<><)
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To: USF; Fred Nerks; ariamne; JudyinCanada

Now you've gone and hi-jacked my afternoon...Good Post!


10 posted on 01/24/2005 10:25:17 AM PST by Dark Skies
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To: SedVictaCatoni
The article actually refers to "Islamism", not "Islam".

Yup, I'm aware of that distinction.

I am grateful that some Muslims are openly questioning the Salafist (pure) interpretation of their bigoted so-called "religion" and address the ideology that spawns Islamic terrorism.

11 posted on 01/24/2005 10:26:10 AM PST by USF (I see your Jihad and raise you a Crusade ™ © ®)
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To: SedVictaCatoni

Sorry, I completely skipped over and didn't see the post you wrote saying what I basically repeated.

In any case, I agree with you. :-)


12 posted on 01/24/2005 10:26:34 AM PST by StottNikk
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To: USF; Fred Nerks; ariamne; jan in Colorado
At long last, I believe that I have discovered the secret weapon against Islam. There is one thing they hate (they call it "filth")...Here is an example:

KA-BOOM!!!!!!!


13 posted on 01/24/2005 10:34:10 AM PST by Dark Skies
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To: SedVictaCatoni
Psst. There is no difference between Islam and Islamism. Ever read the Koran? To be a follower of Mohammad, you must be existentially opposed to all non-followers. In Islam, non-Muslims are not human.
14 posted on 01/24/2005 10:34:57 AM PST by thoughtomator (Meet the new Abbas, same as the old Abbas)
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To: StottNikk

Name one difference, please, I would really like to know. Been searching for a difference for years, and nobody has been able to point one out, yet.


15 posted on 01/24/2005 10:36:29 AM PST by thoughtomator (Meet the new Abbas, same as the old Abbas)
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To: Dark Skies

LOL.

You reminded me of that 'ole email that was going around a while back... the one about using naked women to expose Islamic terrorists.


16 posted on 01/24/2005 10:37:50 AM PST by USF (I see your Jihad and raise you a Crusade ™ © ®)
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To: StottNikk

Guilt by complicity. If a radical branch of Christianity went rogue and started blowing up stuff and beheading people in the name of Christianity, it would be incumbent upon those who professed the faith to reject utterly and loudly the acts of those acting blasphemously in Christ's Name.

If a radical branch of Judaism went haywire and began strangling people in their sleep, or burning churches and mosques, it would be incumbent upon the faithful to condemn these acts without caveat or condition.

I could repeat this vis-a-vis each other major religion of the world ad nauseum, but the point is made:

Islamism is a cancer. There's more than irony in the rhetorical question, "If not all muslims are terrorists, why does it seem all terrorists are muslim?"

There are obvious exceptions, but they are comparatively rare. IRA, (Christian,) and Basques come to mind. But again, look at the scope! Local issues versus global ones. Look at the numbers involved. Look at the absolute and total disregard for casualties, civilian, Muslim, or non-muslim.

I would never deny somebody their religious freedom, but I'd damn sure hold the mainstream Muslim accountable for their comparative silence on the acts of those who worship at the same altar.


17 posted on 01/24/2005 10:40:32 AM PST by Heavyrunner (Socialize this.)
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To: SedVictaCatoni
[ The article actually refers to "Islamism", not "Islam". The distinction is that Islam holds that people should practice the religion of Mohammed; Islamism holds that no secular instututions should exist at all. ]

Apostasy(leaving Islam) is punishable by death. Mohammed said, "Whoever changes his Islamic religion, kill him." Surah Vol. 9:57

A Muslim must not be killed if he kills a non-Muslim. Mohammed said, " No Muslim should be killed for killing a Kafir {non-believer}". Sura Vol. 9:50

18 posted on 01/24/2005 10:43:26 AM PST by hosepipe (This propaganda has been ok'ed me to included some fully orbed hyperbole....)
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To: USF

Here's a nice rundown of how and why the Koran changed it's "instructions" to believers. It also comares it's brutality to the alleged brutality of the Old Testament.

Part 1:

In seeking to find a solution to the problem of Moslem terrorism, it is important to understand what motivates these people to engage in this frightening self-destruction. We are told by many moderate Muslims and political leaders that Islam is a religion of peace and it does not allow the killing of innocent people. The deplorable terroristic acts we have witnessed in recent years are supposed to be condemned by the teachings of Islam.

It is not my intent to judge Islam as a violent religion on the basis of some terroristic acts done by those who claim to follow its teachings. The same must be said of Christianity. We cannot conclude that Christianity teaches violence because of the violent crusades some Christians have waged in the past against Moslem, Jews, and so-called “heretics.” Such a method of interpretation is wrong, because not all who claim to act in the name of their religion are necessarily following its teachings.

The right method is to go back to the sources of Islam and Christianity and see what they have to say about violence and peaceful coexistence with people practicing other religions. This is the procedure we shall follow by examining, first, what Islam has to say about warfare, and then by comparing its teachings with those of the Bible.

THE TEACHING OF ISLAM ABOUT JIHAD OR THE FIGHTING FOR THE CAUSE OF ALLAH

Some scholars view as futile the attempt to define the teaching of the Koran and the Hadith (collected teachings of Muhammad) regarding the use of warfare to advance the cause of Allah. The reason given by Moslem scholars like Fareed Zakaria, in the article cited earlier, is that “The Qur'an is a vast, vague book, filled with poetry and contradictions (much like the Bible). You can find in it condemnations of war and incitements to struggle, beautiful expressions of tolerance and stern pictures against unbelievers.”

Is it true that the Koran is a contradictory book that condemns war on the one hand and commands warfare on the other hand? The answer is “No!” We shall show below that the contradictions in the Koran are resolved by recognizing Muhammad’s progressive teachings from peace to war during the course of his life and experiences.

At the beginning of his mission, Muhammad urged his followers to meet opposition with patience and persuasion. Scholars refer to these texts of the Koran as “verses of forgiveness and pardon.” For example, the Koran says: “Invite (all) to the way of thy Lord with wisdom and beautiful preaching; and argue with them in ways that are best and most gracious: for thy Lord knoweth best, who have strayed from His path, and who receive guidance. (16:125).” “Nor can goodness and evil be equal. Repel (evil) with what is better (41:34).”

After consolidating his power, however, Muhammad explicitly ordered the use of offensive warfare against unbelievers. Scholars refer to these texts of the Koran as the “Sword Verses.” Here are two examples: “Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But God knoweth, and ye know not (2:216).” “But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practice regular charity, then open the way for them: for God is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful (9:5).”

The Resolution of the Contradiction

People like Fareed Zakaria cited earlier, maintain that the contradiction between those texts advocating tolerance and those urging warfare, simply reflect the contradictory nature of the Koran, which is a “vague book, filled with poetry and contradictions (much like the Bible).”

This simplistic explanation is rejected by Islamic scholars who have examined the question closely. They have concluded that the contradictory statements reflect the “progressive revelation” that was tailored to fit Muhammad’s circumstances. In his book Jihad: The Origin of Holy War in Islam, published by Oxford University Press in 1999, Reuven Firestone, writes: “Muslim scholars came to the conclusion that the scriptural verses regarding war were revealed in direct relation to the historic needs of Muhammad during his prophetic mission. At the beginning of his prophetic career in Mecca when he was weak and his followers few, the divine revelations encouraged avoidance of physical conflict.”

“After the intense persecutions that caused Muhammad and his followers to emigrate to Medina, however, they were given leave to engage in defensive warfare. As the Muslim community grew in strength, further revelations broadened the conditions under which war could be waged, until it was concluded that war against non-Muslims could be waged virtually at any time, without pretext, and in any place” (p. 50).

In a 26 pages compelling paper on “Jihad: The Teaching of Islam from Its Primary Sources: The Quran and Hadith,” Richard Bailey traces the evolution of the Koran’s teaching from tolerance to warfare through four stages. He provides an ample documentation for each stage. For the purpose of this essay, I will simply mention each stage, giving only few exemplary verses from the Koran.

Some readers may find this brief analysis of the evolution of Muhammad’s teachings on violence, rather boring. Please do not give up. If you do, you will miss the second half of this study where I compare the Koran with the Bible and offer a Christian response to the problem of terrorism. You will find that the time devoted to the reading this newsletter to be well-spent.

I have tried to simplify the subject, but reading Koran verses can be tedious, because the structure of the sentences is archaic, much like KJV. But, it is important to make the effort to understand the development of Muhammad’s teachings on warfare, because this helps us understand why Muslims have used in the past and are still using today armed conflicts to advance the cause of Allah throughout the world. The references from the Koran are given as Sura, which means chapter, followed by the number of the verses.

Stage One: No Retaliation

When Muhammad began preaching Islam in 610 A. D. in Mecca, his fellow tribesmen (Koreish) became increasingly hostile toward him because of his condemnation of their idolatry. The chapters (suras) of the Koran which originated during the 13 years Muhammad continued to live in Mecca, contain no instruction about fighting, in spite of the severe persecution suffered by his small band of followers. Why? Simply because his few followers stood no chance to win in a physical conflict. Thus it was a wise survival strategy to avoid violent confrontations. Few verses will serve to illustrate this teaching.

In Sura 73:10,11 Muhammad urges his followers to be patient toward those who deny the truth: “And have patience with what they say, and leave them with noble (dignity). And leave me (alone to deal with) those in possession of the good things of life, who (yet) deny the truth, and bear with them for a little while."

In Sura 52:45,47,48 the prophet admonishes to leave the unbelievers alone and to wait patiently for the Lord to punish them: “So leave them alone until they encounter that day of theirs, wherein they shall (perforce) swoon (with terror) ... And verily, for those who do wrong, there is another punishment besides this... Now await in patience the command of thy Lord, for verily thou art in Our eyes."

Stage Two: Defensive Fighting is Permitted

On July 15, 622, the increasing opposition forced Muhammad and his followers to flee from Mecca to Medina, a distance of 250 miles North. This is an important date, known as the Hegira, because it marks the beginning of the Moslem calendar. In Medina Muhammad was recognized as a prophet and was able to consolidate his power. His followers began looting the Meccan caravans passing through Medina. This practice eventually led to several battles between the Koreish tribes of Mecca and his followers.

Muhammad gained the first victory in the Battle of Badr in 624 with an army of 305, mostly citizens of Medina, over a Koreish force twice as large. He conquered several Jewish and Christian tribes and ordered and watch in person the massacred of 600 Jews in one day. It was at this time that Muhammad instructed his followers to defend themselves by fighting and killing.

An example of this instruction is found in Sura 22:39-41 where permission is given to engage in defensive fighting : “To those against whom war is made, permission is given (to fight), because they are wronged, and verily, God is most powerful for their aid.” Again in Sura 22:58 rewards are promised to those who die in jihad: “Those who leave their homes in the cause of God, and are then slain or die, on them will God bestow verily a goodly provision.” The promise of paradise to those who die fighting for Allah, has inspired countless Muslin through the centuries to become martyrs for their faith. It is this promise that inspires devout Muslims young men and women today to become suicide bombers for the cause of Allah.

Stage Three: Defensive fighting is Commanded

A few months after granting permission to fight in self-defence, Muhammad instructed his followers in making war as a religious obligation. At first the enemies were the idol worshippers of the Koreish tribe in Mecca, but later it included the Jews and Christians who did not accept Muhammad as prophet.

This teaching is found in numerous verses of the Koran. Richard Bailey lists 32 passages, annotating them with valuable comments. For the sake of brevity I refer only to four of them. In Sura 2:190 instruction is given to fight until persecution is stopped and Islam is established: “Fight in the cause of God those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for God loveth not transgressors. And slay them wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out; for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter.”

In Sura 2:216 Muslims are commanded to fight for the cause of Allah, even if they do not like, because Allah knows what is best for them: “Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But God knoweth, and ye know not.” Statements such as these make it abundantly clear that for a devout Muslims who follows the teachings of the Koran, fighting to advance the cause of Islam is a divine obligation that can hardly be ignored.

In Sura 8:12,13 Muslims are instructed to cut the necks and fingers of those who opposed God and to never turn their back on unbelievers: “Remember thy Lord inspired the angels (with the message): ‘I am with you: give firmness to the believers. I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers. Smite ye above their necks and smite all their fingertips off them. This because they contended against God and His Apostle. If any contend against God and his Apostle, God is strict in punishment ... O ye who believe! When ye meet the unbelievers in hostile array, never turn your backs to them. If any do turn his back to them on such a day –unless it be in a stratagem of war, or to retreat to a troop (of his own) – he draws on himself the wrath of God, and his abode is hell, – an evil refuge (indeed)! It is not ye who slew them; it was God.”

The instruction is clear. When in combat, there is no room for second thought. Muslim soldiers are to finish the job by smiting the head and cutting the fingers of their enemies. The intent of these amputations was to make it impossible for the victims ever to fight again.

Sura 61:4,11-13 teaches that God loves those who fight in His cause with determination. He will give them victory, forgiveness of sins and admission to the pleasure of paradise: “Truly God loves those who fight in His cause in battle array, as if they were a solid cemented structure ... that ye believe in God and His Apostle, and that ye strive (your utmost) in the cause of God, with your property and your persons. That will be best for you, if ye but knew! He will forgive you your sins, and admit you to gardens [Paradise] beneath which rivers flow, and to beautiful mansions in gardens of eternity. That is indeed the supreme achievement. And another (favor will He bestow), which ye do love–help from God and a speedy victory. So give the glad tidings to the believers.”

One of the benefits of fighting for the cause of Islam is the permission to take captured women as concubines, in addition to several legitimate wives. Sura 33:50: says: “O Prophet! We have made lawful to thee thy wives to whom thou hast paid their dowers, and those whom thy right hand possesses out of the prisoners of war whom God has assigned to thee ... For the believers (at large), We know that We have appointed for them as to their wives and the captives whom their right hands possess ...” The notion that God would assign captured women as concubines to Muslim believers who fight for His cause, hardly reflect high moral standards of the Islam faith. Polygamy and servile concubinage have destroyed the dignity of women and the beauty of the home. In this areas the infinite superiority of Christianity is clearly evident.

By teaching that those who die fighting for the cause of Allah will have their sins forgiven and are admitted into the pleasure of Paradise, the Koran has inspired Muslims throughout the centuries to fight unto death for the cause of Allah. Today it is inspiring young Palestinians become suicide bombers. For them a “martyr’s death” is the surest and quickest way to a better life of comforts, prosperity, and pleasures in Paradise. “Suicide bombers” see themselves as carrying out the teaching of the Koran, while serving their communities and acquiring admission in paradise.

Sura 55:52-58 describes Paradise as a place where there “will be fruits of every kind, two and two... They will recline on carpets, whose inner linings will be of rich brocade. The fruit of the gardens will be near (and easy to reach)... In them will be (maidens), chaste, restraining their glances, whom no man or Jinn before them has touched ... like unto rubies and coral.”

The sensual element pollutes even Islam’s vision of Paradise. Believers are promised not only blooming gardens, abundant food, fresh fountains, but also beautiful virgins. Seventy-two beautiful virgins will be created for the enjoyment of the meanest believer. A moment of pleasure will be prolonged a thousand years. This pleasureoriented Paradise differs radically from the Biblical view of the world to come as this planet earth restored to its original perfection for the habitation of the redeemed who will engage in productive activities and the elevating worship of God.

Stage Four: Offensive War is Commanded Against the Pagans, Christians and Jews.

The final phase of Muhammad’s teaching on warfare developed after he conquered Mecca in 630 A. D. Most of the pagans living in the city became Muslims. At that time Muhammad was able to take over the city and cleanse the Ka’aba (sacred shrine) of some 360 idols resident there.

At this point it became evident to Muhammad that Jews and Christians would not accept him as prophet, so they became part of the list of Islam’s enemies to be conquered. Thus, warfare was no longer to be a defensive fighting, but an aggressive Jihad against all unbelievers. This is the final teaching of the Koran which is still in force today and has inspired the recent acts of terrorism.

There are several texts commanding offensive warfare to kill the pagans, Jews, and Christians. Among them Sura 9:5 stands out for its explicit injunction to slay the infidels: “When the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war). But if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practice regular charity [become Moslem], then open the way for them.” The best way for people to save their lives, was by renouncing their religion and adopting the Islam faith. In some instances conquered people could save their lives by paying a heavy tribute and becoming submissive to Muslim rulers.

In the same chapter, Sura 9:29-31, Muslims are commanded to fight Jews and Christians until they are subdued. Those who submitted themselves to Muslim rulers were to be subjected to a heavy tribute. The reason is because God’s curse is upon them: “Fight those who believe not in God nor the last day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by God and His Apostle, nor acknowledge the religion of truth, (even if they are) of the people of the Book [Christians and Jews], until they pay the jizya [tribute] with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. The Jews call Uzair [Ezra] a son of God, and the Christians call Christ the Son of God ... God's curse be on them.”

Sura 5:36-38 prescribes four types of punishments for those who oppose Allah and his prophet, Muhammad: “The punishment of those who wage war against God and His Apostle, and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land. That is their disgrace in this world, and a heavy punishment is theirs in the hereafter, except for those who repent before they fall into your power. In that case, know that God is oft-forgiving, most merciful. O ye who believe! Do your duty to God. Seek the means of approach unto Him, and strive with might and main in His cause, that ye may prosper.”

The four types of punishments (cutting off the head, crucifixion, maiming, or exile), which were to be applied according to the circumstances, reveal the ruthless methods used by Muslims invaders to advance their religion. Such methods stand in stark contrast to the teachings of Jesus to win men and women for the Kingdom of God by proclaiming the Good News of God’s saving grace through the atoning sacrifice of Christ.



19 posted on 01/24/2005 10:44:03 AM PST by RobRoy
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To: thoughtomator
Name one difference, please, I would really like to know. Been searching for a difference for years, and nobody has been able to point one out, yet.

Islamist = True, unadulterated Islam in the Salafi sense.

Other reinterpreted forms of "Islam" are Bidah.

20 posted on 01/24/2005 10:44:05 AM PST by USF (I see your Jihad and raise you a Crusade ™ © ®)
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To: Heavyrunner
Moderate Muslims are apostates.

Devout Muslims are killers.

21 posted on 01/24/2005 10:44:19 AM PST by Dark Skies
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To: USF

Part 2:

The Teachings on Holy Warfare in Muhammad’s Traditions (“Hadith”)

The teachings of the Koran on the use of the sword to advance the cause of Islam, are corroborated by the collections of traditions (“Hadith”) concerning the teaching of Muhammad. The nine volumes by Iman Bukhari are generally regarded as the most authentic of the Hadith literature. In volume 4 alone Richard Bailey found 283 passages teaching holy warfare (Jihad) to advance the cause of Islam. For the sake of brevity I will quote only four of them.

Muhammad said, “A single endeavor (of fighting) in Allah's cause in the forenoon or in the afternoon is better than the world and whatever is in it” (4:50). Again he said, “Know that Paradise is under the shades of swords.” (4:73 ). For Muhammad fighting for the cause of Allah was a way of life. He said, “My livelihood is under the shade of my spear, and he who disobeys my orders will be humiliated by paying Jizya” ( 4:162b).

The "Jizya" is the poll tax paid by subjugated peoples in return for their right to exist. Muhammad said, “I have been ordered to fight with the people till they say, ‘None has the right to be worshiped but Allah,’ and whoever says, ‘None has the right to be worshiped but Allah,’ his life and property will be saved by me except for Islamic law, and his accounts will be with Allah (either to punish him or to forgive him.)” (4:196 ). The order is clear. Muslims had to fight people until they became Muslims.

Scholarly Support for the Four Stages Evolution of Jihad

We have briefly sketched the four stages evolution in Koran’s teaching on “holy war” (Jihad) from no retaliation, to permissible defensive fighting, to obligatory defensive fighting, and finally to offensive war at all times. Numerous scholars recognize that this evolutionary teaching on the use of warfare corresponds to the stages of development in Muhammad’s thought and circumstances. Two quotes from reputable sources suffices to prove this point.

The first quote is from Dr. Muhammad Muhsin Khan, the English translator of Sahih Al-Bukhari’s nine volume collection of the traditions (Hadith) regarding the teachings of Muhammad. In his introduction to these volumes, Dr. Muhsin Khan writes: “So at first ‘the fighting’ was forbidden, then it was permitted and after that it was made obligatory: (1) against those who start ‘the fighting’ against you (Muslims) ... (2) and against all those who worship others along with Allah ...” (p. xxiv).

The second quote is from the article on “Jihad” found in the Brill’s Encyclopedia of Islam. The author writes: “The jihad is a duty. This precept is laid down in all the sources. It is true that there are to be found in the Kur’an divergent, and even contradictory, texts. These are classified by the doctrine, apart from certain variations of detail, into four successive categories: those which enjoin pardon for offences and encourage the invitation to Islam by peaceful persuasion; those which enjoin fighting to ward off aggression; those which enjoin the initiative in attack provided it is not within the four sacred months; and those which enjoin the initiative in attack absolutely, at all times and in all places.”

The article continues, saying: “In sum, these differences correspond to the stages in the development of Muhammad's thought and to the modifications of policy resulting from particular circumstances; the Meccan period during which Muhammad, in general, confines himself to moral and religious teaching, and the Medina period when, having become the leader of a politico-religious community, he is able to undertake, spontaneously, the struggle against those who do not wish to join this community or submit to his authority. The doctrine holds that the later texts abrogate the former contradictory texts ... to such effect that only those of the last category remain indubitably valid” (p.538).

The doctrine in question is known as “the law of abrogation” which is accepted by Muslim scholars. According to this doctrine the later “verses of the sword” superceded the earlier “verses of forgiveness.” This means that gradually Muhammad came to accept the military Jihad as a legitimate and essential strategy to promote the expansion of Islam. No matter what people may think, Muhammad was not only a religious leaders, but also a military commander who waged war against his enemies as soon he consolidated his power and developed a fighting force.

Islam Expanded Through Warfare

A most compelling proof that Muhammad taught his followers to advance the cause of Allah by the use of the sword, is provided by the example of his immediate successors, known as Califs. They followed his intense fanaticism in waging relentless wars of conquests against Christians, Jews, and pagans. In a relatively short time they carved an enormous empire for themselves. At the height of their power, the Muslims’ territories stretched from northern Africa and southern Europe in the West to the borders of modern India and China in the East. Their battle cry was: “Before you is paradise, and behind you are death and hell.”

Most of the people the Muslims conquered were nominal Christians who surrendered their faith because they had lost the vision of the Christian message and mission. A major reason is that church leaders at this time were wasting their time fiercely quarreling about metaphysical questions such as the divine/human nature of Christ, rather than inspiring Christians to proclaim the Gospel to the pagan nations. The first seven ecumenical councils held between 325 and 787 A. D. were largely concerned with the definitions of the nature and relationship between the three Beings of the Godhead. Bitter battles were fought over metaphysical questions that should be accepted as mystery. By loosing their evangelistic vision, many Christians succumbed to Islam, instead of bringing to the Muslims a saving knowledge of Jesus Christ.

During its first century of Islam’s expansion from 632 to 732, Muhammad’s successors subdued Egypt, Palestine, Syria, part of Turkey (besieged Constantinople twice in 668 and 717), and all the countries of northern Africa. In 711 they crossed from Africa to Spain and crossed the Pyrenees into southern France. They boasted that they would soon stable their horses in St. Peter’s cathedral in Rome. But in 732 the Frankish ruler Charles Martel defeated then at the Battle of Tours and checked their progress in the West.

In the East the Muslim conquest continued unabated. In the ninth century they subdued Persia, Afghanistan, and a large part of India. In the thirteenth century they conquered the Turks and the Monguls. Bulgaria, Serbia, and parts of Hungary were soon to follow. Finally in 1453 the city of Constantinople itself fell into the hands of the Muslim Turks, who turned the magnificent church of St. Sophia into a mosque where the Koran is read instead of the Gospel. From Constantinople the Muslims spread panic in Europe and threaten the German empire until they were finally defeated at the gates of Vienna in 1683.

The Decline of the Muslim Power

At this time began the decline of the Muslim power with the rise of European nations which gradually broke up and divided among themselves much of the Muslim territory known as the “Ottoman Empire.” The development of strong European nations and a powerful America, coupled with the aggressive missionary movement of the 19th and 20th centuries, has created serious problems for Muslims. The political-religious Islam movement which during the Middle Ages seemed destined to rule the world, has gradually been humiliated by Western colonial powers which have divided much of the Muslim territories among themselves. What ended the expansion of Islam was not a change of beliefs, but the European military might.

Anger Driving Terrorism

The humiliation Muslims have experienced in the last two centuries, is a contributing factor to the anger that is driving terrorism today. In recent years Muslims have been humiliated not only by the Jews in Palestine, but also by Christian Serbs in Bosnia and Kosovo, by atheistic or Christian Russians in Chechnya, and by Hindus in Kashmir and Pakistan.

It is hard for some Muslims to accept the shame of their international failure. After being the superpowers for over a thousands years, believing that Allah had empowered them to wipe out Christians, Jews, pagans, and to rule the whole world, today they find themselves governed politically or controlled economically by nations made up mostly of “infidels.” Many Muslims are angered by the superior power of Western countries, especially America, because they still believe in the superiority of their religion and culture which they want to impose on the rest of the world.

In his book Jihad in Classical and Modern Islam (Princeton 1996), Rudolf Peters, Professor of Islamic Law at the University of Amsterdam, observes: “The crux of the doctrine is the existence of one single Islamic state, ruling the entire umma [Muslim community]. It is the duty of the umma to expand the territory of this state in order to bring as many people under its rule as possible. The ultimate aim is to expand the territory of this state in order to bring the whole earth under the sway of Islam and to extirpate unbelief” (p. 3).

The fact that the expansionistic vision of Islam to bring the whole earth under its sway, has suffered constant set backs during the past two centuries, and especially in recent years, is inspiring some concerned Muslims to commit the terroristic acts reported in the daily news. Their aim is to show that in spite of their state of humiliation, Muslims are still capable of terrorizing Western superpowers like America. This is another way for them to show that Allah is still empowering them to accomplish their mission.

Concerned Muslims want to punish America for her alleged anti-Islam policies, b y hitting the people in their “comfort zone.” This entails in forcing Americans to “pay more and play less,” by burdening them with billions of dollars of expenses to fight terrorism at home and abroad, It also consists in distressing Americans with the constant fear of unsuspected attacks. By keeping Americans on the edge and thus undermine their traditional sense of security, many devout Moslems believe that they are scoring a major victory for the cause of Islam. They think that they are showing to the world that Allah has empowered them to humiliate the most powerful nation, America. For them this represents the triumph of Islam over Christianity.

The threat is heightened by the development of nuclear, chemical, and biological weapons of mass destruction by such Arab countries as Iraq, Iran, and Libya. If a student at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology could devise a nuclear bomb in five weeks using published material available in a good library, it is conceivable that these and other developing countries could assemble thermonuclear weapons. When this happens, even a small use of nuclear weapons by Muslim countries committed to advance the cause of Allah by humiliating the Christian superpowers, could degenerate into a major international conflict which would bring ruin to all and victory to none.

Is Islam a Peace-loving Religion?

The preceding survey of the teachings of the Koran and of Muhammad’s traditions (Habith) regarding warfare, discredits the popular claim that Islam is a peace-loving, peace-preaching religion. There is no question that there are many peace-loving Muslims who condemn the use of violence to promote their faith, but this can hardly be said of the teachings of the Koran and Hadith.

To say that Islam is a religion of peace, means to ignore the example and teachings of Muhammad. He fought all the pagans, Jews, and Christians in Saudi Arabia, until he subdued them, forcing them to accept Islam. What Muhammad did is reflected in what he taught about fighting and slaying the infidels: “When the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war). But if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practice regular charity [become Moslem], then open the way for them” (Sura 9:5).

The claim that Islam is a peace-loving religion, is openly contradicted by the Koran that reads like a terrorist manifesto. We must not be fooled by the speeches of Arab leaders who condemn the acts of terrorism when their people are out in the streets in a carnival-like atmosphere celebrating the carnage of innocent people by suicide bombers.

Real peace with Muslims is impossible as long as they believe in the example and teaching of Muhammad. For the Prophet peace comes only through submission to Islam, which is the very meaning of “Islam,” namely, “submission.” But the Islamic concept of peace as a world dominated by Muslims is ultimately a mandate for war.

The challenge that we face today in seeking to establish peaceful relations with the Moslem world, is to help our Muslims friends understand the fundamental flaws of the teachings of the Koran regarding the use of violence to advance the cause of Allah. A religion that advocates engaging in “holy war” (Jihad) to propagate its faith, is a repressive movement that violates the fundamental human right to choose whom to worship. This fundamental right is recognized and respected by the God of biblical revelation who says: “Choose ye this day whom you will serve” (Jos 24:15).

VIOLENCE IN THE BIBLE AND THE KORAN

This leads us to the discussion of violence in the Bible and in the Koran. The debate over this question has intensified after the events of September 11. Those who want to exonerate the use of violence by Muslims, are quick to point out that Christianity is not different, because the Bible and Christian history are filled with violence. Earlier we cited Kenneth Woodward who wrote in Newsweek: “The Bible, too, has its stories of violence in the name of the Lord. The God of the early Biblical books is fierce indeed in his support of the Israelites warriors, drowning enemies in the sea” (Newsweek, February 11, 2002, p. 53).

How can we respond to this popular argument that the violence in the Koran is not different from the violence we find in the Bible? For the sake of brevity I will limit my response to three major considerations

1) Christians Have no Biblical justification for Using Violence in the Name of Christ

There is no question that Christians have used violence, torture, and military crusades to destroy “infidels” and “heretics,” but those who committed these shameful acts, betrayed the Person and teaching of Christ. They turned the Christian church into a terroristic organization acting against the teaching of Christ who condemned the use of violence as a means to establish His Kingdom. He told Peter who cut off the ear of the high priest’s servant, “Put your sword back into its place; for all who take the sword will perish by the sword” (Matt 26:52).

While Muhammad commanded his followers to fight pagans, Jews and Christians until they were killed or subdued, Christ taught his disciples to endure persecution and pray for the persecutors. “Blessed are you when men revile you and utter all kinds of evil against you falsely on my account. Rejoice and be glad, for your reward is great in heaven . . . I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven” (Matt 5:11-12, 44,45).

Muslims who use violence, warfare, and terrorism to advance the cause of Allah, can legitimately claim to be following the example and teachings of their prophet, Muhammad. He was both a religious and political leader who fought until he subdued the people of Mecca and the Christian and Jewish communities living in Saudi Arabia. He taught: “Know that Paradise is under the shades of swords.” (4:73 )

But Christians who have resorted to violence to advance God’s Kingdom, cannot appeal to the teachings or example of Christ. They have betrayed His teachings. Christ chose to be crucified rather than to slay His enemies with the sheer power His spoken word. He taught His followers to establish the Kingdom of God, not through physical confrontation, but through the peaceful proclamation of the saving grace of God.

Christianity turned the Roman world upside down during the first three centuries by the sheer power of the grace of God manifested in the loving and forgiving attitudes of Christians, who were willing to suffer and die for their faith. By contrast, Islam conquered much of the Roman world during the first century of its expansion (632-732) b y slaughtering a countless number of innocent people and forcing their faith upon the survivors. What a difference! Christ condemned the use of violence to promote the Christian faith, while Muhammad commanded the use of the sword to advance the cause of Islam.

2) The Extermination of the Canaanites Was a Divine Punishment for their Wickedness.

Some appeal to passages found in the book of Joshua regarding the extermination of various tribes living in Canaan, to argue that the Bible is not different from the Koran in sanctioning a “holy war” to promote the true worship of God. If this allegation were true, then the teachings of the Bible on the use of violence would be similar to those of the Koran.

The problem with this allegation is the failure to recognize that the extermination of the various tribes living in Canaan was a divine punishment for their wickedness, and not a method to convert them to the religion of Israel. Dead people cannot change their religion.. Like Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed because their wickedness had reached the limits of God’s mercy, so the tribes living in Canaan were exterminated on account of their sinfulness.

Hundreds of years before the invasion of Canaan, God told Abraham that his descendants would be sojourners in a foreign land for “four hundred years” (Gen 15:13), before they could settle in the land of Canaan. The reason given for this waiting period is clearly stated: “for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet complete” (Gen 15:16). In other words, God was willing to wait for several generations before exterminating the tribes living in Canaan, because their wickedness had not yet reached the limits of His mercy.

Later God warned the nation of Israel to be careful in not repeating the sins of the Canaanites, otherwise they would suffer a similar punishment. The warning was in vain. Eventually God used the Assyrian and Babylonians as the instrument of His justice to punish the people of Israel for their sinfulness, in the same way as He had used Israel as an instrument of His justice to purge the land of Canaan of its sinfulness.

There is a dramatic difference between the account of the extermination of the Canaanites and the events of the early history of Islam. The primary theme in the biblical account is that of God’s holiness manifested in the punishment of unrepentant sinners. This theme is missing in the early accounts of Muhammad’s raid and wars. Instead, the primary motivation we constantly encounter in the accounts of Muhammad’s warfare is the spreading of the rule of Islam by destroying and looting the enemies.

3) The Bible Does not Enjoin the Use of Warfare to Promote the Worship of the True God

Another important point to consider is that nowhere the Old or New Testaments command God’s people to attack pagan nations, either in self-defence or as a way to promote the true worship of God. The proclamation of salvation in the Bible is always b y witnessing and persuasion.

God placed Israel in the land of Canaan because of its strategic location at the crossroads of the ancient world. The Israelites were to be God’s showcase to the ancient world, especially to the merchants and armies crisscrossing Palestine. This so-called “King’s Highway” was an obligatory “interstate” route for people who traveled from the South to North or from the North to the South of the Middle East. God wanted to establish His people at the hub of the ancient world for them to be a light to the nations. “The Lord will establish you as a people holy to himself, as he has sworn to you, if you keep the commandments of the Lord your God, and walk in his ways. An all the people of the earth shall see that you are called by the name of the Lord; they shall be afraid of you” (Deut 28:9-10).

The Israelites were called to promote the true worship of God, not by conquering nations through warfare, as enjoined in the Koran, but by being a shining light to the world. “Arise and shine; for your light has come, and the glory of the Lord has risen upon you. . . . And the nations shall come to your light, and the kings to the brightness of your rising” (Is 60:1, 2). There was no need for the Israelites to promote their faith by the sword, because God promised to fight for them and to bring the nations to their door steps to learn about the true worship of God (Zech 8:20-22).

The OT anticipation of the proclamation of salvation to all the nations, becomes in the NT Christ’s great commission to His followers: “Go therefore and make disciples of all nations” (Matt 28:19). This great commission is to be fulfilled, not by the use of the sword, but by “teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you” (Matt 28:20).

Islam is a Violent Religion

A comparison between the teaching of the Koran and that of the Bible on the use of violence, shows the fundamental difference that exists between Islam and Christianity. We have found that Islam is a violent religion because the Koran teaches holy warfare (Jihad) to force people to submit to its religious/political system. A religion that resorts to violence to force its teachings upon others, can hardly be called a “religion,” because a true religion presupposes reverence for God and respect for fellow-beings. It would be more appropriate to label violent religions as “terroristic organizations.”

The designation of “terroristic organization” applies not only to Islam, but also to Christian churches that became violent during certain periods of the history. For example, during the Middle Ages the Catholic Church became a formidable “terroristic organization” that organized crusades to exterminate Muslims, Jews, and so-called “heretics.” The Catholic church terrorized people in Western Europe, especially through the inquisition. The latter was a travelling court that went from town to town seeking out for “heretics” to interrogate, torture, and execute if they did not abandon their beliefs.

Recently the Pope apologized for the unspeakable atrocities committed by the Catholic church when it became a terroristic organization committed to subdue Muslims, Jews, religious dissidents, and Greek Orthodox Christians. We only wish that Muslims religious leaders would follow the example of the Pope by apologizing for the countless number of innocent people they massacred during their millennium of territorial expansion. If they truly believe that Islam is a peace-loving religion, then they have a moral obligation to show their heartfelt sorrow for slaughtering millions of innocent people who refused to submit to the Islam faith and rule. They also should apologize for the daily terroristic acts committed by Muslim suicide-bombers. They should condemn these acts of violence as a betrayal of Islam. But this is wishful thinking, because there are no indications that such an apology and condemnation is forthcoming from Muslim religious leaders.

On May 28, 2002, a Fox News reporter said that during the long months she has spent in the Middle East reporting the current conflict, she has never heard a Muslim religious leader condemning the killing of innocent people by suicide bombers. She found it hard to comprehend why Muslim religious leaders do not speak up, especially when suicide bombers kill mothers strolling their your children on the street.

Why are Muslim religious leaders silent? Simply because they believe that suicide bombers are “martyrs” who are acting in accordance with the example and teachings of their prophet, Muhammad. After all, he called upon his followers to “ fight and slay the pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war)” (Sura 9:5).

Muhammad practiced what he preached. He waged war against his enemies as soon as he consolidated his power in Medina. He used the sword to force people to accept his religious and political system. For Mohammed fighting was a way of practice his religion: “My livelihood is under the shade of my spear, and he who disobeys my orders will be humiliated by paying Jizya [tribute]” (Hadith 4:162b). A religion that uses violence to promote its beliefs and practices, can hardly be considered as a peace-loving religion.

Christianity is a Peace-Loving Religion

By contrast, Christianity is a peace-loving religion because it is inspired by its founder, Jesus Christ, who did not force people to submit to anything. He called upon people to voluntary accept the Good News of His substitutionary death for penitent sinner and the power of His transforming grace. He taught His followers to “Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven; for he makes his sun rise on the evil and the good” (Matt 5:44-45).

Christ is rightly called “THE PRINCE OF PEACE” (Is 9:6), because he offers us PEACE WITH GOD by bearing the penalty of our sins, PEACE WITH OURSELVES b y offering us the power to overcome sin in our life, and PEACE WITH PEOPLE by granting us the capacity to love even those who hate us.

At Jesus’ birth, the angels sang: “Glory to God in the highest and on earth PEACE, GOOD WILL toward men (Luke 2:14). Thirty three years later while dying He prayed for those who mocked and crucified Him: “Father forgive them for they know not what the do!” (Luke 13:34). And to all who trust in Him and accept His gracious provision of salvation, Christ promises: “My PEACE I give to you; not as the world gives do I give to you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid” (John 14:27).

The peace that Christ offers is not territorial, but internal. It is achieved not b y making the whole world Muslim through territorial expansion, but by experiencing the restful assurance of divine forgiveness, protection, and salvation. It is an internal peace that enables us to live in a trouble world without letting our hearts be troubled or afraid. Ultimately, this is the peace that every human being needs. The is the peace that can help Muslims to live at peace with God, themselves, and others.


22 posted on 01/24/2005 10:45:02 AM PST by RobRoy
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To: USF
The all-merciful, all-benificent, almighty, all-FUBAR Allah will issue a fatwa on him.

Don't forget to slaughter a sheep !!


23 posted on 01/24/2005 10:45:09 AM PST by Tuba Guy ('Death to all infidels, etc., etc., etc.')
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To: Heavyrunner

"I would never deny somebody their religious freedom, but I'd damn sure hold the mainstream Muslim accountable for their comparative silence on the acts of those who worship at the same altar."

You seriously cannot believe that all Muslims have been complacent and silent about terrorism. I know of a great many Muslim who find terrorist acts deplorable and irreprehensible and are QUITE vocal about it.

Don't count on the corporate-run mass media to allow such people a voice, though.


24 posted on 01/24/2005 10:46:04 AM PST by StottNikk
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To: USF

So in other words, you agree, the actual true Islam is the code of the Islamists, and there is no difference.


25 posted on 01/24/2005 10:47:06 AM PST by thoughtomator (Meet the new Abbas, same as the old Abbas)
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To: USF


In a related thread, did you note that the Saudi royal family is building 4,500 madrassas?
Perhaps they're trying to effect a cure to the Wahabi insanity.
26 posted on 01/24/2005 10:51:32 AM PST by StoneGiant
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To: All; StottNikk

This is the troll who just signed up today and posted an article calling Bush a fascist.


27 posted on 01/24/2005 10:53:00 AM PST by broadsword (It was far beyond anything seen here before!)
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To: StoneGiant

No, it's Wahabi madrassas and mosques the Saudis are funding in America and elsewhere.


28 posted on 01/24/2005 10:54:31 AM PST by broadsword (It was far beyond anything seen here before!)
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To: thoughtomator
So in other words, you agree, the actual true Islam is the code of the Islamists, and there is no difference.

LOL... yes, we're playing word games here.

If one would want to take a more "Daniel Pipes" approach, to know thy enemy, exploit its divisions, to divide and conquer... it helps to play PC word games a times to target the "true believers" first, and to keep the ummah divided and infighting. Its one of their weaknesses that we can use to our advantage.

But, yes.. we essentially agree here. ;o)

29 posted on 01/24/2005 10:58:07 AM PST by USF (I see your Jihad and raise you a Crusade ™ © ®)
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To: StottNikk

Let's hear your opinion of the Jersey City murders last week.


30 posted on 01/24/2005 10:58:20 AM PST by Dark Skies
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To: StottNikk
"Unless of course, Christianity has no faults. .

No, Christianity has no faults; some of the people who practice Christianity do.

31 posted on 01/24/2005 10:58:33 AM PST by jackibutterfly
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To: StottNikk
"Perhaps labelling certain Christians as "Christianist" might be in order here. Unless of course, Christianity has no faults, and Christianity has nothing negative to own up to."

Let's put it this way:

On a scale of 1-10 -- from good-worse -- Christianity comes in at around "2", while the "Religion of Peace Death" comes in at about "11".

32 posted on 01/24/2005 10:58:51 AM PST by F16Fighter
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To: thoughtomator

"So in other words, you agree, the actual true Islam is the code of the Islamists, and there is no difference."

No, I actually maintain that the opposite is the case.


33 posted on 01/24/2005 10:59:36 AM PST by StottNikk
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To: broadsword

He's not a troll...he's a Muslim!


34 posted on 01/24/2005 10:59:45 AM PST by Dark Skies
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To: jackibutterfly

"No, Christianity has no faults"

I can think of at least one.


35 posted on 01/24/2005 11:00:42 AM PST by StottNikk
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To: StottNikk

I am not suggesting that there haven't been Muslims truly incenced and enraged by the behavior of the criminal death cult within...I AM suggesting that they are the exception which proves the rule.

These people operate because Islamic teachings allow loopholes for this sort of behavior. The Ayatollahs and Mullahs are in a position to close these loopholes, yet they do not.

And even your most afluent and successful U.S. citizen Muslim hails to these leaders in Saudi Arabia and Iran for guidance...Just like Catholics look to the Pope as their final mortal arbiter.

At least the Pope weighs in on world and political issues...Hell, sometimes more than he probably should. When a Cardinal bucks the poobah, he gets recalled.


36 posted on 01/24/2005 11:01:22 AM PST by Heavyrunner (Socialize this.)
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To: Dark Skies

Probably say they were justified. "Praise be to BeelzAllah!


37 posted on 01/24/2005 11:01:49 AM PST by broadsword (It was far beyond anything seen here before!)
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To: USF

I'm right on board with you in that, and I have no problem with dissimulating to this enemy - after all, turnabout is fair play. No point in misleading FReepers though that Islam is anything but through and through a death sentence for anyone over whom it gains power.


38 posted on 01/24/2005 11:02:07 AM PST by thoughtomator (Meet the new Abbas, same as the old Abbas)
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To: Dark Skies

I'm not a Muslim or a Christian, actually. I've been an Atheist for about as long as I can remember.

FYI - I'm not a 'He'


39 posted on 01/24/2005 11:02:08 AM PST by StottNikk
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To: StottNikk

Then you are either completely ignorant of Islam or are deliberately lying. Which is it?


40 posted on 01/24/2005 11:03:00 AM PST by thoughtomator (Meet the new Abbas, same as the old Abbas)
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To: Heavyrunner

"I AM suggesting that they are the exception which proves the rule"

Can the exception really prove a rule? How exactly do you know what percentage of the population is for or against extremism?

Answer: you can't. there are too many Muslims to count.


41 posted on 01/24/2005 11:03:54 AM PST by StottNikk
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To: jackibutterfly

Let's not go there... I think we've had the "validity of Christianity" debate enough for this decade.


42 posted on 01/24/2005 11:05:33 AM PST by thoughtomator (Meet the new Abbas, same as the old Abbas)
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To: StottNikk; thoughtomator; broadsword; Dark Skies
"So in other words, you agree, the actual true Islam is the code of the Islamists, and there is no difference."

StottNikk: No, I actually maintain that the opposite is the case.

Really StottNikk? Well, most of Islams highest authorities will disagree with you.

43 posted on 01/24/2005 11:05:44 AM PST by USF (I see your Jihad and raise you a Crusade ™ © ®)
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To: StottNikk; USF
FYI - I'm not a 'He'

Weeeeelllll, why didn't you say so. That changes everything.

44 posted on 01/24/2005 11:05:55 AM PST by Dark Skies
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To: StottNikk
"Perhaps labelling certain Christians as "Christianist" might be in order here. Unless of course, Christianity has no faults, and Christianity has nothing negative to own up to."

Sure, some in the 'name of Christ' haven't done the right thing, but the point is that when they have done so it was in direct contradiction of scripture. Condemning Christianity for some crime committed in its name by a person not true to it is like condemning all Doctors because Jack Kevorkian is a Doctor (well a Pathologist anyway).

Christianity, i.e., the New Testament, prescribes how one is to love God, and how to love (you know, the brotherly type) their fellow man. It is significant that one of the temptations of Christ was to refuse political dominion. Political dominion was precisely what Mohammad gained. Search high and low, forwards and backwards through the New Testament and find me one single passage even suggesting some sort of political involvement. Now try the Koran. There were no attempts to overthrow the Romans and establish a Christian state with 'Christian law'. Islam was born of political conquest. No where can you or will you find any suggestion in the New Testament that a Christian is to physically or politically coerce the behavior of another. Christianity is essentially about people of free will freely choosing to follow Him. To force others to follow Him would be meaningless. Tell that to the religion police of Saudi Arabia.

Sorry for the distasteful analogy: but where violence and coercion have been involved by zealots in history, the name of Christianity has been the unwilling victim of rape while Islam has been a whore.
45 posted on 01/24/2005 11:05:56 AM PST by WmDonovan (http://www.geocities.com/thelawndaletimes)
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To: Dark Skies
Weeeeelllll, why didn't you say so. That changes everything.

LOL! So it wears a burkah instead of a filthy nightshirt.
46 posted on 01/24/2005 11:13:10 AM PST by broadsword (It was far beyond anything seen here before!)
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To: StottNikk
How exactly do you know what percentage of the population is for or against extremism?

The real question is, what role does Islam and it's intolerant ideology play in spreading war, oppression and terrorism across the globe today, and what are our options to defeat it.

47 posted on 01/24/2005 11:14:38 AM PST by USF (I see your Jihad and raise you a Crusade ™ © ®)
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To: WmDonovan

Well put, FRiend. I am so sick of the FRislamists who engage in the most ridiculous moral relativist lies of comparing Islam to Christianity or Judaism.

Keep up the good work.


48 posted on 01/24/2005 11:15:00 AM PST by broadsword (It was far beyond anything seen here before!)
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To: USF

Our only option will be extermination of those who choose Islam over life, because they cannot leave us any choice without also leaving Islam.


49 posted on 01/24/2005 11:17:32 AM PST by thoughtomator (Meet the new Abbas, same as the old Abbas)
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To: StottNikk; Heavyrunner; broadsword; Dark Skies; thoughtomator

Here StottNikk, I'll even answer the first part to help you out.

Past sermons from Islams undisputed holiest places, from their holiest men. These are no maverics, no crackpot imams to brush off. And I have files more of this stuff.

The credit for everthing below goes to LGF, IMRA, and MEMRI:





Every Friday, the Imams at mosques across the Muslim world spew their hatred for Jews (who according to the Quran are "brothers of apes and pigs") and the west, many of them praising the virtues of "jihad" against the "enemies of Islam" and asking Allah to help destroy this that and every other.

It's worth bearing in mind that these sermons are from Islams holiest places, akin to the Vatican in the Christian world, and we're only focusing on these mosques because they are the government run and approved ones. The more radical mosques that are out of government control preach more vile forms of hatred and violence.

You can see videos of sermons from some of the mon-government run (unless you count Saudi prince financing) mosques like the Finsbury Park Mosque in London at this website: http://johnathangaltfilms.com/movies2.html and more here: http://johnathangaltfilms.com/movie.html
10:54 PM 11/27/2004


Friday, February 7, 2003.

From the holy mosque in Mecca, Saudi Arabia:

Shaykh Sa'ud Bin-Ibrahim al-Shuraym delivers the sermon. He praises God, the messenger, and his companions, advising people to worship and obey God and stressing the importance of pilgrimage as a religious duty. He urges pilgrims not to bother one another or mill about during pilgrimage ceremonies. He also calls on Muslims to stick to their faith in Islam "as a fatal weapon in the face of the enemies of the nation and the stealers of land," saying that a faithful fighter "can win either the battle or martyrdom for the sake of God." The imam devotes his sermon to pilgrimage affairs and Islamic values.

Concluding, the imam prays to God: "O God, strengthen Islam and Muslims, humiliate infidelity and infidels, destroy the enemies of Islam, and protect this country, as well as the countries of Muslims."


From the other holy mosque in Medina, Saudi Arabia:

"O God, strengthen Islam and Muslims and humiliate infidelity and infidels. O God, destroy those seeking to harm Muslims. O God, relieve Muslims everywhere of their suffering. O God, give support to mujahidin fighting for your sake. O God, relieve our brothers in Palestine of their plight."
From the Grand Mosque in Sanaa, Yemen:

Turning to politics, the imam condemns the Israeli "occupation for usurping Palestinian rights and destroying Palestinian homes and lands." Preparations, he says, are also under way "to occupy Iraq," although they [enemies] boast about their human rights organizations, "which only target Arab and Islamic countries." He devotes most of his sermon to pilgrimage affairs.

Concluding, the imam prays to God: "O God, give your support to Islam and Muslims and relieve our weak brothers in Palestine and Iraq of their ordeal." He goes on: "O God, give support to those supporting Islam and disappoint those disappointing Muslims. O God, promote justice and disappoint infidels and unbelievers. O God, give support to mujahidin in Palestine and Iraq, encourage them, and help them score victory over their enemies. O God, close the ranks of Muslims so that they can stand in the face of the unjust Americans and the Zionist usurpers. O God destroy the enemies of Islam, shake the ground under them, and instill fear into their hearts."


At Shaykh Ijlin mosque in Gaza, the hate is especially virulent:

Palestinians, he says, have been expelled from their homes because of their belief in God and "their readiness to offer their souls for the sake of God, the sanctities, and the Holy Land." The imam says: "While stepping up their atrocities and terrorism against us, the enemies accuse us of terrorism. They fight us with their bullets, their tanks, and their planes. We will remain patient, God willing, because our people believe in God and are sure he will defend them. Otherwise, we would not have remained patient all these years in the face of this tyrannical military machine, the strongest force in the world. It is not the fourth power in the world, as has been said. It is the strongest power in the world because the United States, the unjust country, is blindly biased toward our enemies. O Palestinians, o Muslims, we swear that nobody will enjoy safety in the world unless injustice to the Palestinian people is lifted." The imam reminds Muslims that God has asked them "to defend Al-Aqsa Mosque and this land." He also says: "After this reckless US president declared his loyalty to the Jews and planned to get rid of our president, our people, and our cause, his country lost both security and safety." The imam scoffs at the US president for asking the Palestinians to introduce reforms at a time when his country is overwhelmed by corruption, stressing that reform is a Palestinian requirement.

Concluding, the imam prays to God: "O God, help us score victory over our enemies. O God, accept our martyrs, forgive them, and have mercy on them."
From the Al-Aqsa Mosque in Ramallah:

The imam says that the US secretary of state announced two days ago that war would break out within days. The irony, he says, is that some Arab countries have asked the United States "to put off the war until after Id Al-Adha." He says: "This implicitly shows that some Arab rulers have approved the war in principle and are protesting just the timing. While Muslims slaughter sheep in Id Al-Adha, the United States will slay Muslims in Iraq in order to carry out its aggressive, criminal, terrorist, and inhuman designs." Stressing opposition to such a war, the imam urges the Islamic nation, both the rulers and the ruled, to close their ranks and to block the planned destruction of that country and its people.

Concluding, the imam prays to God: "O God, deter the aggressors and conspirators. O God, destroy them all. O God, protect Iraq and its people. O God, give us safety in our homeland and relieve us of our plight."



http://www.imra.org.il/story.php3?id=15544
January 24, 2003 Friday sermons
[Destroy the Jews, Americans] Friday Sermons Slam US, Israeli Plans Against Iraq, Arab Nation

In the holy mosque at Mecca—that’s Mecca, as in the #1 holiest place in Islam—Saudi Arabia, Shaykh Usamah Khayyat warms up the crowd with a few softballs.

He praises God, the messenger, and his companions, thanking God for revealing Islam to spread justice and mercy on earth. Citing relevant Koranic verses, the imam says "Islam forbids killing innocent people."

OK, enough with the wimpy stuff. Let’s get to the destroying already.

Concluding, the imam prays to God: "O God, strengthen Islam and Muslims; protect Islam; destroy the enemies of Islam, the tyrants, and the corrupt; close the ranks of Muslims, and give wisdom to their leaders. O God, grant us safety in our homeland, give wisdom to our imams and leaders, and support our leader." He goes on: "O God, help the mujahidin promote your religion and your word everywhere. O God, give them victory in Palestine. O God, destroy the Zionist Jews and their Zionist supporters."

This is how the Saudis crack down on jihad incitement. I guess Shaykh Usamah (hmm...sounds familiar) didn’t get the memo from the Clown Prince.

At the Grand Mosque in Sanaa, Yemen, Shaykh Abd-al-Razzaq al-Ruqayhi (ptooey!) gets right into the freezing and the shaking and the hurting and the glavin! ... mmmhey!:

"O God, support our mujahidin brothers in Palestine, Iraq, and elsewhere. O God, strengthen them, encourage them, and give them a clear victory over their enemies. O God, destroy the Zionist aggressors and the unjust Americans. O God, shake the ground under them, instill fear into their hearts, and freeze blood in their veins. O God, close the ranks of the Muslims and give success to our president."

Yeah, “president.” Right. For life.

At martyr King Abdallah mosque in Amman, Jordan, Shaykh Sa'id Hijjawi pleads for Allah to kill and destroy, with help from His faithful mujahidin:

"O God, strengthen Islam and Muslims, support your mujahidin servants everywhere. O God, destroy your enemies, the enemies of Islam, for they are within your power; give this country safety; and support King Abdallah II."
At the Khalil al-Wazir mosque in Gaza, Shaykh Ibrahim al-Mudayris plays the victim card:

He urges the Palestinian people, "who are suffering more than any other people in the world," to close their ranks, stressing that the Palestinian people are the only people "still struggling against the last occupation on earth." The imam then expresses happiness at the current "historic" Cairo meeting of the leaders of the Palestinian factions and describes it "as a first step toward closing the Palestinian and Arab ranks," urging Egypt "to take more honorable, historic positions." He appeals to the participants of the meeting "to face up to their responsibility" by putting their differences aside and "renouncing their party and personal interests in favor of Palestinian national interests." The imam condemns the Israeli practices against the Palestinian people, urging Muslim pilgrims "to remember Al-Aqsa Mosque, which is as holy as the holy mosque in Medina."

Concluding, the imam prays to God: "O God, clean our country from the filth of the Jews. O God, support the people of Palestine. O God, lift the siege on the people of Palestine. O God, lift the siege on the leadership of the people of Palestine."

Can you count the lies in those two paragraphs?

At the Al Aqsa Mosque in Jerusalem, Shaykh Ikrimah Sabri shows Saddam some love:

Assailing the "aggressive plans" against Iraq, the imam says: "Threats to Iraq are escalating these days. What is prepared for Iraq will also affect other Islamic countries. Anything contrary to this reality is false and deception. All this takes place under the pretext of fighting terrorism. The West is misusing terrorism by trying to link it to our great Islamic religion. It is necessary to clarify the meaning of terrorism." Denouncing the killing of thousands of innocent people in Afghanistan as terrorism, he says that "current preparations to attack Iraq amount to terrorism." Addressing Arabs and Muslims, the imam says: "It is time for Arabs and Muslims -- rulers and ruled -- to close their ranks and block the planned US-British aggression against Iraq or any country in the Islamic world. Any aggression against any Islamic country is an aggression against the whole Islamic nation. The Islamic nation should wake up before it is too late. Under Islamic law, Muslims are prohibited from supporting any war against Iraq." The imam urges the United States, Britain, and other world countries to use their huge wealth for the benefit of humanity, calling on Muslims "not to surrender to the big powers."

Beautiful! Destroy the Americans and their Zionist masters! But first ... give us some money?

At Anas Bin-Malik mosque in Damascus, Syria, Shaykh Ziyad-al-Din al-Ayyubi reaches all the way back to the 13th century for this week’s obscure Islamic history reference:

Pilgrimage, he says, is a great Islamic conference, which we need to confront major problems "facing Arabs and Muslims in these days, particularly the tyranny of the Zionist enemy on the holy land of Palestine." He accuses the enemy [Israel] of planning to attack this nation with the support "of the United States" in order to humiliate Arabs and Muslims. Muslims, he says, need such a conference because "our children are killed in Palestine, our women are killed in Palestine, our homes are destroyed on the land of Palestine, and our trees are uprooted on the land of Palestine." The imam condemns the United States and Britain for "striking civilians and military positions in northern and southern Iraq and preparing to strike Iraq and the people of Iraq in order to control Iraq's oil, to attack Arab and Islamic countries, and to humiliate and subjugate this nation." He appeals to God to enable this nation--rulers and ruled--"to stand in the face of the Hulago of the age to block this barbaric, dirty attack." He stresses that "Syria works to block war against Iraq, as well as this despicable, corrupt marriage between Zionism and its supporters in the United States." He says he does not believe that the United States is seeking to establish democracy in Iraq, stressing that the US Administration "is planning to establish an Israeli-led Middle East." Criticizing the Saudi ambassador in Washington -- without naming him -- for declaring that he does not believe those who claim they fight for God's sake, he says "Palestinians offer themselves as martyrs on the land of Palestine for God's sake," adding that Muslims will continue to stick to their Koran. He urges Arabs to take action in the face of the upcoming aggression against Iraq before it is too late.

Concluding, the imam prays to God: "O God, give wisdom to our leaders. O God, give success to Arab and Muslim leaders and to President Bashar al-Asad and enable him to defy the Jews and their supporters."

At the Umm al-Ma'arik (Mother of Battles) mosque in Baghdad, Shaykh Abd-al-Latif Humaym informs his audience that the White House is inhabited by savage rabbis intent on humiliating Allah:

He praises God, the messenger, and his companions and says that "our nation at this historic moment is passing through a difficult test imposed by savages led by the Zionist US Administration, whose black history if full of evils and violations of our sanctities." Denouncing the inspection of mosques by the weapons inspectors as "provocative," the imam says that if these enemies enter Baghdad, "then the banner of God is great will be humiliated." He calls on Muslims to close their ranks to fight for God's sake and stresses that victory is for the faithful, citing relevant Koranic verses and giving examples from Islamic history. Revealing the current plots against Arabs, the imam says: "Iraq is not the only target. By God, tyrant Zionist America does not target Iraq just because it is Iraq, but because it carries the banner of God is great, there is no God but one God, and Muhammad is God's messenger. Yesterday, a mosque was violated and other mosques will also be violated. If they find a chance, God forbid, they will crush the Kaaba and Holy Medina. O Iraqi brothers, you are required to close your ranks and defend your goal and joint fate. By God, no banner other than that of Muhammad will be raised--a banner, which Saddam raises." Promising that the invaders will be crushed, he says: "The Iraqi people will fight side by side with Saddam Husayn. It is a religious war. A rabbi dwells the White House and reads politics through the Torah--a fact that prompts him to violate Muslims' sanctities."

Concluding, the imam prays to God: "O God, support Saddam and the Iraqis. O God, support the mujahidin in Iraq and Palestine." He goes on: "O God, destroy the Zionists and Americans, for they are within your power."

What? No request for money?

And finally, even in Qatar, where the US has an important base of operations, the freaky sheikhs are shrieking hate:

Describing pilgrimage as jihad, the imam says: "The nation of Muhammad will stick to Islam to the last drop of its blood and will never abandon its religion as a result of any pressure, any force, or any aggression." The nation, he says, is facing "a critical stage" and regrets the fact that the enemies determine the form of the nation's life and struggle. He devotes most of his sermon to pilgrimage.

Concluding, the imam prays to God: "O God, help our Muslim mujahidin score victory. O God, help our brothers on the land of Palestine score victory. O God, strengthen them and encourage them. O God, help them." He goes on: "O God, destroy your enemies, the enemies of Islam. O God disperse them and destroy them."




http://www.imra.org.il/story.php3?id=14843
Friday Sermons Bid Farewell to Ramadan, Iraqi Imam Calls on Iraqis To Rely
on God
Based on FBIS Report
[With thanks to www.mideastweb.org/mewnews1.htm ]
December 6, 2002


From the holy mosque in Mecca, Saudi Arabia:

"O God, support our brother mujahidin for your sake in Palestine and elsewhere. O God, we ask you to save Al-Aqsa Mosque from the aggressor and usurper Jews. O God, deal with the Zionist Jews for they are within your power. O God, disperse them and make them a lesson for others and booty for Muslims. O God, inflict your might on the criminal ones."

From the Shaykh Zayid Bin-Sultan Al Nuhayyan Mosque in Gaza:

Shaykh Dr. Muhammad Mustafa Najm delivers the sermon, which he begins by thanking God for "cursing the brothers of apes and pigs" until doomsday and warning Muslims "of their evil and arrogance." He cites the Koranic verse that refers to "Jews" as the most hostile. He also hails Prophet Muhammad, "the imam of the mujahidin and strugglers, who fought Jews and expelled them from the Arabian Peninsula."

Continuing, the imam says it is not strange for Jews to carry out massacres and invasions even on Muslim religious holidays. This, he adds, has always been their hostile attitude toward Muslims, who only demand their rights. He also says that it is not strange for Jews, who tried to kill the prophet, to kill Palestinians after placing them under siege, beginning with their leader. "Our leader," the imam adds, "is unfairly besieged not only by our enemies, but also by those who provide them with political, military, economic, cover."

The imam says that the United States sponsors world terrorism and practices all methods of terrorism, especially against Muslims. So what is required of us in the Holy Land and the Arab and Islamic nation is to unite and fight solidly, he says. We must rise above our differences, he adds.

The imam emphasizes the need for unity and says: "Muslims are being besieged, killed, and butchered. Our kinfolk and brothers in Iraq are being besieged. The so-called United States fabricates allegations and lies in order to wage war on them. If Muslims do not support their brothers in Palestine and Iraq, there will come a day when it would be too late to regret our inactivity. For they will swallow us up one by one, Muslim after Muslim, country after country, and seize our resources."

From president Hafiz al-Asad’s mosque in Damascus, Syria:

The imam asks Muslims as they celebrate the feast to think about the ones "displaced by imperialism and sinful, criminal Zionism" in Palestine. The Islamic and Arab nation, he adds, is "waging a very serious battle and passing through an important and critical phase, the phase of life or death. The enemies have attacked the lands, desecrated holy places, violated sanctities, and sowed corruption on earth." "Jihad," he affirms, "has become a duty for everyone who can help with his or her soul and money. Every individual must be ready to become a soldier fighting with his soul. Sacrifice of spirit is the most expensive thing for the best aim of saving the countries and freeing the holy lands from the occupier tyrants. Every rich person has a duty to spend his money as much as possible in order to supply the resistance with the modern weapons that will help them remain steadfast against the enemies and end their aggression." Arabs and Muslims have never succumbed to invaders, he adds.

"Our nation, will not be intimidated by the United States and those who help Israel openly and secretly," the imam says, adding: "Let Israel expel peaceful people from their homeland and let it drop its bombs and fire on peaceful villages. It will only face steadfastness, firmness, and bravery, as we believe in our just cause and our right to a free, respectable life."

The imam says: "Muslims and Arabs in all their countries, and the blessed Al-Aqsa Mosque which is part of their belief, are called upon to rise as one man and fight with their funds and souls for the sake of freeing their countries and saving Al-Aqsa Mosque and other holy places from the tyrannical Jews."

From Shaykh Abd-al-Qadir al-Jaylani mosque in Baghdad, Iraq:

"In our jihad against the administration of tyranny and evil today, we represent faith. In its present jihad, Iraq represents faith while the United States represents infidelity. We appeal to our Muslim brothers and tell them the camp of faith is here and the camp of infidelity is in the United States. The faithful is the one who joins the camp of faith under the flag of Allahu Akbar. The hypocrite is the one who fails to express an opinion and the infidel is the one who stands with evil and tyranny. We shall triumph by our dependence on God. Come closer to God as much as you can, because victory is no doubt coming. History is full of lessons."

The imam recalls incidents from Islamic history showing how God backed the faithful with His angels in times of adversity and says God will not disappoint Iraq, the country of saints -- Imam Ali, Imam Al-Husayn, Imam Al-Abbas, Imam Abu-Hanifah, and Shaykh Abd-al-Qadir al-Jaylani. "If the clique of evil ones attacks," he says, "the whole universe will shake. The angels, the heavens, and the whole world will shake if Iraq is attacked, because our strength is from God's strength."

The imam calls on worshippers to depend on God and place their trust in God. "Do not weaken," he adds, "and do not listen to the media of evil and lies. They are not ashamed to tell lies. They have no scruples about telling lies. They tell lies unashamedly." He adds: "Let them threaten as they want and let them say what they want. We have barricaded ourselves with faith and depend on God."

The imam devotes the second sermon to a solemn prayer to God for support. He prays: "O God deal with the Americans for they are within your power. O God, shake the land under their feet. O God, fight them with your angels. O God, make their plans destroy them. O God, we ask you on this blessed hour to support and aid the intifadah people in Palestine. O God, support the mujahidin in the land of Palestine."

From the Al-Rifa'i mosque in Cairo, Egypt, Dr Ahmad Umar Hashim, the head of Al-Azhar University, supreme head of the world Muslim youth association and member of the Egyptian higher Sufi council, explains that Islam is a religion of tolerance.

After the conquering and converting/subjugating is finished, that is.

He adds that it is time for the Islamic nation to be united, and for those who claim that Islam is a strict religion to understand that Islam is a religion of tolerance. To support his earlier statements, Dr Hashim says that when the prophet and his followers won the last battle against the infidels and entered city of Mecca, he did not punish the infidels who fought against him and told his followers to call that day the day of mercy.

He says that when Islam achieves victory and its instructions spread, security prevails everywhere, even for its enemies. He also says: "You, who were unjust towards our religion, this is our religion. You who are ignorant of the call of Islam, this is the call of Islam. It is the call of mercy and bliss for all humanity. It is mercy for the entire world, with its east, west, north, and south, for Muslims and non-Muslims, and Arabs and foreigners." Dr Hashim continues to relate stories of Mecca's conquest that prove Islam's mercy towards enemies. He says that Islam with its tolerant instructions calls upon the world to understand the true Islam and to believe in and follow the prophet, as the prophet is the last messenger of God. He adds that God has ordered all nations on earth to follow the prophet so that peace and security prevail on earth. He also stresses that Islam is an international religion for the whole world.

Finally, words of relative moderation from martyr King Abdallah mosque in Amman, Jordan, where the king has told the imams to lower the volume:

The imam then calls for a generation of Muslims which believes in "enlightened" Islam rather than "fanaticism." He calls for a generation, which does not oppress, betray, attack, become arrogant, run after sedition, or get misled by mirages. He calls for "a generation whose conscience and feelings are filled with love for the higher ideals, virtues, and moral values, which the world lacks today in its international and domestic relations." He says that it was on the basis of such ideals and values that the state of Islam was established. But, before resolving the problems of the world, we must resolve our own problems, he adds.



http://www.imra.org.il/story.php3?id=14521
15 November 2002
[FBIS (US Government service) Report]

This week’s Peaceful Religion Watch (our summary of the insane hate speech that infests the Friday sermons of the Arab world) features two countries with intimate connections to Osama bin Laden, who are now supposed to be sorta-kinda helping the US—although you wouldn’t know it by the 100-proof vitriol spewing from these Muslim supremacist “spiritual leaders.”

From the Grand Mosque in Sanaa, Yemen:

"O God, support those supporting Islam, disappoint those disappointing Islam, and guide the steps of Muhammad's nation. O God, support the mujahidin in Palestine, Chechnya, and elsewhere and help them score victory over their enemies. O God, help them score a clear, quick victory. O God, destroy the aggressive Jews and the unjust Americans. O God, shake the ground under them, instill fear into their hearts, and freeze the blood in their veins."
On official Saudi Arabian TV, the freaky Shaykh exhibits the usual Saudi bloodlust, shrieking for God to destroy you know who. From the holy mosque in Mecca, the spiritual center of Islam:

"O God, protect Islam and Muslims and destroy the enemies of Islam, the tyrants, and the corrupt. O God, help Muslims close their ranks. O God, give wisdom to the Muslims' leaders. O God, support our leader and promote Islam through him. O God, help the mujahidin elevate your religion and your word. O God, support them in Palestine. O God, destroy the tyrant Jews, for they are within your power. O God, defeat these tyrant Jews."



Friday sermon
11 October 2002
[FBIS (U.S. government agency) Report]
http://www.imra.org.il/story.php3?id=14061

Once again last Friday, like clockwork, the spiritual leaders of the Arab world were screaming for Allah to kill and destroy. But something tells me Allah tuned them out a long time ago.

From the Grand Mosque in Sanaa, Yemen:

"O God, support whoever supports religion, humble whoever humbles Muslims, and give success and mercy to the nation of Muhammad." He also prays: "O God, give victory to our brother mujahidin in Palestine and everywhere. O God, make them steadfast and strengthen their hearts." He goes on: "O God, deal with the Jews and their supporters and the Christians and their supporters. Shake the land under their feet, instill fear in their hearts, and freeze the blood in their veins. O God, deal with them for they are within your power. Turn fate against them, lower their flags, divide their ranks, and disperse their assemblies. O God, we ask you to deal with them and spare us their evil. O God, make fate turn against them."

From the holy mosque in Mecca, Saudi Arabia:

The imam concludes with a prayer to God to support Islam and Muslims, destroy the enemies of religion, unify Muslims, and guide their rulers. He prays for the triumph of mujahidin in Palestine, Kashmir, and Chechnya. He also prays: "O God, deal with the oppressive Jews, as they are within your power, and spare us their evil. O God, whoever wishes us and Muslims evil, keep him preoccupied with himself and make plans destroy him."
The Syrian imam has a truly bizarre message this week; an almost plaintive effort to explain the “misunderstood” concept of jihad to us backward, Zionist-influenced Westerners. According to Shaykh Dr. Muhammad al-Habash (he’s a shaykh and a doctor!) Dubya’s right, Islam is a religion of peace and tolerance and love. But also jihad.
From Al-Zahra Mosque in Damascus, Syria:

"There is a need today to speak about jihad. Islam is the religion of tolerance, mercy, and love. But, it is also the religion of justice and jihad, and peace and power. It is not sound to imagine that the arrogant on earth have suddenly turned meek and that we could stop Zionist designs against Palestine with wisdom and good word. The tyranny that the Zionists practice daily on the land of Palestine, calls upon us to resurrect the message of jihad." God ordained jihad so this nation would repulse oppression, establish justice, and deal with life with realism and rationalism, he says, adding: There must be force to protect justice and deter oppression.

"But, this jihad, which God has ordained as a means to achieve justice on earth," the imam says, "is being distorted in Western circles. They confuse terrorism with the right to legitimate resistance. The arrogant on earth are vying with one another in describing jihad as a form of aggression. Unfortunately, some erroneous Muslim concepts contribute to spreading this wrong image of jihad."

The imam addresses President Bashar al-Asad, saying Arabs and Muslims "await a new October." This is the people's hope, he says, while they witness Zionist atrocities in Khan Yunus, Ramallah, Rafah, and Janin. "The only language that can change the attitude of this arrogant tyrant and war criminal, who is committing murder daily, is jihad as ordained by Allah and offered to us by the October War," he adds.

The imam says: "The Zionist lobby today is leading the United States, the master of the world, to an all-out confrontation with the Islamic World. The United States speaks like a great power to the world, but turns into a lowly agent for the Zionists when the matter concerns the designs of the Zionist lobby. The US Congress approved a law recognizing Jerusalem as the capital of the Hebrew state thereby flouting all international laws."
I believe what the good Dr. Shaykh is getting at, if I may paraphrase, is that as soon as they get rid of all those nasty Jews and infidels we’ll see how peaceful and tolerant Islam can be.



Friday sermon 30 August 2002

The mullahs and imams of the Arab world spew hatred over official government TV and radio every Friday. They call their incendiary speeches “sermons,” and they are delivered at the most revered mosques of the Islamic world.

From Umar Bin-al-Khattab Mosque in Doha, Qatar:

"O God, we ask You, in Your Greatness and Omnipotence, to deal with the Jews and those who support them in Palestine and everywhere. O God, whoever wishes us and Muslims goodness make him succeed; and, whoever wishes us and Muslims evil deal with him. O God, support our brother Mujahidin in Palestine and everywhere on earth."
From the Grand Mosque in Sanaa, Yemen:

"O God, deal with the Jews and the Christians for they are within your power. O God, deal with the Jews and their supporters and Christians and their supporters. O God, shake the land under their feet, instill fear in their hearts, and freeze the blood in their veins. O God, make us see in them what they hate. O God, divide their ranks, scatter their assemblies, and make them booty for Islam and Muslims. O God, unite Muslims and Muslim rulers."
From the Al-Murabit mosque in the Al-Muhajirin quarter of Damascus, Syria:

The imam devotes the second part of the sermon to prayer. He prays deeply to God to end "the tribulations" of Muslims everywhere and the brothers in Palestine. He prays: "O God, deal with the Jews for they are within your power. O God, make fate turn against them. O God, we ask you to make us, Arabs and Muslims, rulers and ruled, sincere and truthful."
The screamers in Iraq are especially shrill this week. From the Imam Abi-Hanifah al-Nu'man mosque in Baghdad, Iraq:

The imam says: "Know Ye, O faithful everywhere, that the Americans, who are backed by the scum of the earth, the sons of monkeys and pigs and people of fornication and vice, who were in the lowest levels of vice and satanic whims, do not aim to attack Iraq alone. Yesterday, it was Andalusia and recently the tripartite aggression against beloved Egypt, the country of Afghanistan, and North Africa, where they wanted to eliminate the Arab entity with the English, French, Italian, and Spanish languages. Today, they are threatening Iraq and tomorrow they will threaten the Gulf, the land of the Nile, Yemen, Sudan, and other states including Syria, Lebanon, and Libya. It is a big plot, which is being concocted against Islam, Muslims, Arabdom, and faith." ...

"This is a call," the imam appeals, "to all Muslims in the world, and Arabs in particular, as well as to the followers of the noble Sufi schools stemming from the Holy Koran and the prophet's traditions. For they have been and still are people of sacrifice and a vanguard in selflessness and martyrdom. Strike at British and US interests. Fight them in every land and place, against their banks, goods, property, and persons."...

Don't dare plan an attack against Iraq, O tiny midget, W. Bush, as it is fortified by heavenly power and it would be a cemetery for you. To hell with you!"
And after being absent for a couple of weeks, our good pals the Saudis are back, praying to God to keep all the world’s terrorists snug and warm in their caves ... oh, and God? while you’re at it, please destroy the Jews, OK? From the “holy mosque” in Mecca, Saudi Arabia:

"O God, support the mujahidin for the sake of the triumph of your religion and the elevation of your word everywhere. O God, support them in Palestine, Kashmir, and Chechnya. O God, support the mujahidin in Palestine. O God, deal with the tyrant Jews for they are within your power. O God, we ask You to face them and spare us their evils. O God, whoever wishes us and Muslims evil, busy him with himself and make his plotting destroy him."...




Friday sermon 23 August 2002

From Abu-Hanifah al-Nu'man mosque in Baghdad, Iraq:

"O God, support Islam and Muslims, elevate the word of justice and Islam, and help the believers score victory over the infidels. O God, give safety and prosperity to this country and protect Muslims' countries from disasters and diseases. O God, support your mujahidin servants everywhere. O God, support your mujahidin servants in Palestine. O God, help them score victory over the usurper Zionist Jews. O God, have mercy on the martyrs. O God, destroy the Jews and Americans for they are within your power. O God, show them a black day. O God, shake the ground under their feet, weaken them, hang their flags at half mast, down their planes, and drown their ships." He also asks God to give success to "mujahid leader Saddam Husayn."


From the Grand Mosque in Sanaa, Yemen:

"O God, support those supporting Islam and disappoint those disappointing Muslims, have mercy on us, and reform Muhammad's nation. O God, help our mujahidin brothers in Palestine and elsewhere score victory. O God, give them a clear, immediate victory over their enemies. O God, destroy the Jews and their supporters and the Christians and their supporters and followers. O God, destroy the ground under their feet, instill fear in their hearts, and freeze the blood in their veins."


At the Umar Bin-al-Khattab Mosque in Doha, Qatar, the imam has some special words for any peaceful Muslims who might want to actually, you know, make peace:

In the second part of the sermon, the imam regrets the fact that the Islamic nation punishes fedayeen by restricting their freedom of action. He says: "The proposed reform for the PA is aimed at establishing cadres capable of restricting and even killing resistance. We regret the fact that some Islamic countries have agreed to train these cadres to protect Israel's security, to control the resistance, to arrest the resistance men, and to liquidate the resistance."

Concluding, the imam prays to God: "O God, help us and protect us from our enemies. O God, protect us from the evils of our brothers, friends, and enemies. O God, protect us and save us from the conspiracies of the friends, brothers, and enemies. O God, support us, do not turn against us, and help us score victory." He goes on: "O God destroy the Jews and their supporters, including the crusaders and some so-called Muslims. O God, use your power against them. O God, save the region and the peoples from them."


http://www.imra.org.il/
[FBIS (US Government service) Report]


50 posted on 01/24/2005 11:18:16 AM PST by USF (I see your Jihad and raise you a Crusade ™ © ®)
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