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Germany's Fischer reaffirms commitment to Israel
The Jerusalem Post ^ | 24 January 2005 | JPOST.COM STAFF

Posted on 01/24/2005 10:25:28 AM PST by anotherview

Jan. 24, 2005 19:31
Germany's Fischer reaffirms commitment to Israel
By JPOST.COM STAFF

At the special session of the UN to commemorate the 60th anniversary of the liberation of Auschwitz, Germany's Foreign Minister Joschka Fischer began by saying, "The Shoah is the ultimate crime against humanity of the Twentieth Century."

He said, "Democratic Germany has learned its lessons the Holocaust has left an indelible mark."

Explaining one aspect of this indelible mark, Fischer reiterated Germany's commitment to the State of Israel.

"The State of Israel's right to exist and its people to security will always remain nonnegotiable fixtures of German foreign policy," he declared.

He continued saying, "Our past makes it our duty to combat all forms of anti-Semitism, racism, and xenophobia . We must not turn a blind eye while synagogues are vandalized."

He also stressed the importance of passing on the stories of the survivors to future generations.

"We who can listen to the survivors bear a responsibility to recount their story to future generations," Fischer said.


TOPICS: Extended News; Foreign Affairs; Germany; Israel; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: commitment; fischer; germany; holocaust; israel; joschkafischer; shoah
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To: thoughtomator

I won´t let you go away. Now you claim to have found evidences on the web, why don´t you post them?
This is not about different perceiptions, it´s about facts! There are no two sides of the truth.

Oh, and have you ever informed yourself how the EU works? You can hardly compare Germany and the EU with Russia and the USSR! I bet you don´t even know how many states make out the EU, and how it´s organized. Germany is not controlling the EU, it´s rather vice versa.


21 posted on 01/24/2005 12:24:04 PM PST by Michael81Dus (German)
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To: flieger

I wholeheartly disagree, we don´t support Israel because of "guilt". Heck, we don´t feel guilt for the Nazi crimes, since we aren´t responsible for them. This was before our time. But we have learned from the past and never want Jews to be victims because of the religion!


22 posted on 01/24/2005 12:26:14 PM PST by Michael81Dus (German)
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To: thoughtomator

Oh, and another thing: Germany does not vote for UN resolutions against Israel. It abstains.


23 posted on 01/24/2005 12:29:26 PM PST by Michael81Dus (German)
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To: Michael81Dus
Out of good faith that you will consider the evidence without prejudice, here you go:

1. This thread is not about the US! It is about Israel and Germany, and I - as well as IAF ThunderPilot - said that Germany is the closest ally of Israel in Europe.

I thought you were talking about Germany as an ally of the US, not of Israel. With regards to Germany as an ally of Israel, you'll note IAFThunderPilot agreed with my statement, not yours (post 6).

2. You confuse the oil-for-food-scandal with legal deals between German companies and Saddam until 1991. Since 1991 there were few companies illegally dealing with Iraq, and those businessmen were prosecuted for this. ´Nough said.

I haven't heard of any German scandal prosecutions. I'd be interested in seeing the details. As far as German involvement in Oil-for-Food and propping up Hussein, according to this German companies did quite a bit of business with Hussein after 1991, with the consent of the German government. Furthermore, when this statement was made the Oil-for-Food scandal was already starting to be known. I just don't find it plausible that the German Foreign Minister didn't have a clue how corrupt it was by that point.

3. Don´t confuse the German government with the EU. The financial aid for the PA came from Brussels and as far as it wasn´t directed to lower the suffering in the Palestinian refugee camps but increasing Arafats personal wealth it is ashaming.

The German government is the core of the EU. Without Germany there would and could be no EU. Germany cannot escape its share of responsibility for where EU money goes, as a disproportionate share is in fact German money. The EU did not give the money over the objection of Germany; on the contrary it was following the Franco-German lead.

4. Ehm, Iraq was certainly not a threat to Israel in 2003, from what we know now.

If you like, I can dig up some Saddam statements about Israel from 2003. Is it really necessary?

The Patriots are a symbol of our friendship and not given on demand of the US but of Israel. Btw, you´ll find other proof of German-Israeli friendship on this thread.

I'd like to read up on that if you have a source.

24 posted on 01/24/2005 12:31:52 PM PST by thoughtomator (Meet the new Abbas, same as the old Abbas)
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To: Michael81Dus

No, that wasn't what I was trying to say, but what we have learned from the past is certainly part of the reason why we support Israel today.

What I was trying to say is, that certain people still want to keep the "collective guilt" feeling alive and make profit with it. And it works. This doesn't help at all to improve the public opinion on Israel in Germany.

See http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v17/v17n6p19_reparations.html


25 posted on 01/24/2005 12:48:24 PM PST by flieger (No more Moore please!)
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To: thoughtomator
ad 1. IAF ThunderPilot said explicitly on this thread that he too considers my country a close ally of his nation. Period. Btw, Germany is also a close ally of the US, if not in Iraq, but definitely it has excellent relations on military, economic and cultural matters.

ad 2. your first source states that the state investigates the illegal deals with Saddam. In the meanwhile, those were convicted to jailtime on probabtion. The other economic relations were not illegal (e.g. trucks by DaimlerChrysler). In 2001 the Oil-for-food-scandal was not known and as you can see from Fischers statement, the entire Security Council votes for the program (incl. the US, UK).

ad 3. "Germany cannot escape its share of responsibility for where EU money goes, as a disproportionate share is in fact German money." Do me a favor and replace Germany with "US" and EU with "UN" and the party begins. I doubt that any government of the EU knew how terrible the control by the EU administration about the PA was.

ad 4. Of course you can dig up comments by Saddam. And we can read the statements of the Propaganda Minister. We knew that Iraq was ready to conquer the world according to the Iraqi government. And in our own minds it was evident that Iraq easily could have overrun Kuwait and Saudi-Arabia. However, it turned out otherwise (thankfully) and Iraq IN FACT WAS NO THREAT TO ISRAEL NOR ANY OTHER NEIGHBOUR BY 2003.

From January 17, 2003 issue.

Israel: Two Patriot Batteries To Be Lent By Germany Israel has decided to borrow two Patriot missile interceptor batteries from Germany and expects to receive them within a month, the Israeli Defense Ministry said yesterday (see GSN, Jan. 14).

Israel will borrow the batteries for two years, ministry spokeswoman Rahel Naidek-Ashkenazi said. Israeli crews will operate the batteries, and specialists are being sent to Germany to learn more about modifications made to the systems (Joshua Brilliant, United Press International/Washington Times, Jan. 16).

http://www.nti.org/d_newswire/issues/thisweek/2003_1_23_misd.html

26 posted on 01/24/2005 12:52:02 PM PST by Michael81Dus (German)
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To: flieger

Alright, I agree.


27 posted on 01/24/2005 12:52:40 PM PST by Michael81Dus (German)
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To: thoughtomator; Michael81Dus

What I was really saying, is that I agree with thoughtomator when he said that Germany always vote for the Palestinians in the monthly "condemn Israel ceremony".

I dont know about a single event in which Germany voted for Israel, in fact, except the USA and some islands in the pacific ocean (like Micronesia) all nations vote automatically against Israel, including Poland, UK, Australia, India and other nations that have much better relationships with Israel than France, Belgium, Sweden etc.

Yet, Germany is indeed the closest defense ally of Israel in Europe (unless you consider Turkey as a Europian nation). Another example besides those which were already been written here, are the joint Israeli AF and German AF excercises in 2003.

I would like to see German government's words become to actions. As a beginning, to stop automatically voting against Israel in the monthly "condemn Israel festival" at the UN.


28 posted on 01/24/2005 1:53:08 PM PST by IAF ThunderPilot (The basic point of the Israel Defense Forces: -Israel cannot afford to lose a single war.)
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To: IAF ThunderPilot

Woop? Did I miss something?? Germany always abstains from the vote. It neither supports nor disapproves the "condemn Israel votes" in the UN.

"For Germany, support for resolutions critical of Israel has been rare. The government generally abstains from votes on resolutions dealing with Israel, but there have been exceptions."

http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,1564,1272932,00.html


29 posted on 01/24/2005 1:58:29 PM PST by Michael81Dus (German)
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To: Michael81Dus

Stop abstaining and start supporting. Aprove your words.
If you cant arpove your words then dont say them at all.


30 posted on 01/24/2005 2:05:28 PM PST by IAF ThunderPilot (The basic point of the Israel Defense Forces: -Israel cannot afford to lose a single war.)
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To: Michael81Dus

Most Israelis see no difference between the nations that participated in the Holocaust during WW-II and between those who preferd to say nothing.

We also see the same idea and the same connection today in the condemn Israel festivals.

That is a thing that you should understand.


31 posted on 01/24/2005 2:11:28 PM PST by IAF ThunderPilot (The basic point of the Israel Defense Forces: -Israel cannot afford to lose a single war.)
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To: anotherview
"The Shoah is the ultimate crime against humanity of the Twentieth Century."

Ve Germans like to pretend ve are ze best criminals ever. Unzurpassed in brutality. It allows us to ignore crimes like Rwanda or what is goink on in ze Zudan right now, ya? If ve were ze vorst criminals in ze vorld, zen any crimes goink on right now pale in comparison, ya? So ve can ignore zem.

32 posted on 01/24/2005 2:14:00 PM PST by xm177e2 (Stalinists, Maoists, Ba'athists, Pacifists: Why are they always on the same side?)
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To: anotherview
"The State of Israel's right to exist and its people to security will always remain nonnegotiable fixtures of German foreign policy," he declared.

Then he went out into the street and beat a German police officer with a pipe, for old time's sake.

In his defense... he didn't say WHAT SIDE of Israel's right to exist Germany's foreign policy fall on. ;')
33 posted on 01/24/2005 10:14:36 PM PST by SunkenCiv (In the long run, there is only the short run.)
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