Posted on 01/26/2005 8:45:26 AM PST by tvn
>> There are a lot of people on this thread expressing concerns about Catholic doctrine.>>
Don't ya love this line?
Concerns?
That is an excellent point. One that does not get raised often enough.
3. It is a fact, maybe a sad fact, that a married clergy will place enormous strain on the finances of a parish and the ability of a parish to carry out its panaply of sacramental liturgies. Right now, a celebate priest earns about 14,000 dollars american per year. The just wage for a married priest would have to be triple that.
Married priests will be a good deal more expensive to support - especially if they are observing Humanae Vitae.
I recall a comment made by a Filipino observer that there wouldn't be much enthusiasm in his country for "supporting father and his woman."
As the priest in this article notes - even if he greatly exaggerates the duration and scope of the non-celibate tradition in the West - that changinf the rule has precedent and certainly is within doctrinal possibilities.
It would likely help solve some problems (the priest shortage; the problem of gays in the priesthood). It would also create new ones (divorced priests; reducing priest availability).
Too often the latter get overlooked. Vocations are certainly in crisis. But this change shouldn't undertaken lightly.
Personally I'd rather try cleaning up the seminaries, restoring liturgical norms to make the priesthood attractive to young men, and renewing a sense of authentic orthodoxy first before trying something more desperate.
They always do..... :-)
Good work.
This was your opening insult to me, altho I did not give you or anyone else my life's story.
We did pretty well until 1965.
There's more at work here than just the question of celibacy.
I presented facts regarding the Council of Elvira. Thus, you are wrong here.
I never said the Pope's infallibility wasn't limited to faith and morals. I still say every human of course is fallible in the area of faith and morals.
What in the world are you talking about?
In fact, it's later than that.
I agree with ealier proposed dates on the gospel dating myself. But even with these you're talking about the synoptics being dated around the 60's - possibly the 50's - and John somewhat later.
Revelation (the Apocalypse) of course wasn't written until later (80's or 90's). The eastern church didn't accept it until about 400 A.D.
So the first two to three generations grew up in the faith without any - or very much - written scripture, and certainly no canon as such. One wonders what the sola scripture folks make of that.
In the meantime they had the faith as transmitted by the Apostles and their appointed successors - the first presbyters (priests) and bishops. And it was those priests and bishops, in the form of the Church, that compiled and established the canon.
Really? Not everyone thinks so.
Although I agree with this...you had new trouble in the mid-60's. (Along with other mainline denominations.)
On the contrary...the scriptures were being handed around. They just hadn't been compiled into a book until the heretic Marcion made this necessary.
"How about when there were 3 Popes...were they all infallible?"
This is fiction, as already pointed out. Let me amend my statement:You have presented very few facts.
This is absolutely dead wrong. The diocese of Fort Worth has six Anglican dispensation priests (for our size, the largest number of these men of any diocese in the U.S.). Every single one of them is a pastor of a parish. In fact, the largest parish in our diocese, St. Elizabeth Ann Seton, is staffed by Fr. John Gremmels, a married priest with three teenage daughters. His associate is a celibate.
Right now, a celebate priest earns about 14,000 dollars american per year
With housing and car allowance figured in, celibate priests earn, on average $35,000 per year.
Well, if it were put to a vote, the vast majority of Catholics would accept a married priesthood.
I am not sure how far you're pressing this point, but I am not sure I would want to press appeals to majority opinion. The Church is not a democracy (as I know you agree).
According to some polls most Catholics do not observe Church teaching on contraception; and, more alarmingly, may not believe in the Real Presence.
Clearly the possibility of allowing married priests exists in a way that, say, women in the priesthood does not. If it comes down to a choice between a gay priesthood and amarried priesthood, I know which one I will take. But ending celibacy as a requirement will create as many problems as it solves. They'll just be different problems.
As far as the 3 Popes...just because the New Advent says not all three were legitimate doesn't make it so. The French Catholics thought theirs the real thing.
The Great Schism was one of the opening blows to the doctrine that christians had to accept the Roman Pope's word as Gospel. Not long after came the throwing off of the "infallibility" of the Pope altogether.
While implicit in the powers of the papacy, the doctrine of "infallibility" was not declared until 1870 - long after the Reformation. The 16th cetury Reformers had never heard of the doctrine; though they certainly were revolting against papal authority, to be sure (among other things).
It's also a badly misunderstood doctrine. Do you know how many times Pope John Paul II has officially invoked papal infallibility, speaking ex cathedra? Try "zero."
Heretic.
They just hadn't been compiled into a book
They weren't tomes. They were individual pieces of literature. And not every christian owned them...however, christians were regularly exposed to the scriptures by the leaders.
You are correct about Marcion misusing the scriptures. This is why it was necessary to put forth an official version.
Jerome translated the first Latin version; however, he was not the one who compiled the Bible.
Dinner calls.
The French Cardinals, motivated by politics, decided to elect their own Pope and moved back to Avingon. This was not off of New Advent, even though it seems you cant be persuaded by facts given by "Catholic sources".
Heretic indeed.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.