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Norte O Gangs Moving North
Pioneer Press- Ft. Jones, Ca. | Jan. 26, 2005 | Barry R. Clausen

Posted on 01/26/2005 12:33:44 PM PST by JustAnotherSavage

Norte o Gangs Moving North

By Barry R. Clausen

January 2005

During the last several years there have been a large volume of raids on Mexican Mafia marijuana gardens throughout our country. Information is now available on who these Mafia gang families are. In Northern California “Norte o” gangs are invading many cities and rural communities. One of their identifying pieces of clothing is a red bandana or a San Francisco 49ers bomber jacket while their counterparts; the Sore o’s from the south wear a blue bandana.

The Norteno’s are comprised of any Hispanic gang member north of Fresno. Lau and Pulido along with Nuestra members being most prevalent in Siskiyou, Shasta, Tehama and other northern counties. According to documents these organized families are believed responsible for the murders of upwards of 300 of their own Mexican brothers.

Northern California has been and will continue to be one of the most desirable areas for these cartels/gangs to produce their marijuana crops as a result of the hot weather and access to the I-5 corridor.

Marijuana Eradication Teams (MET) are comprised of both local and federal agents. At the conclusion of this last summers growing season, MET agents from the Siskiyou County Sheriff Department, the U.S. Forest Service and the Bureau of Land Management made arrests in Merced, California. Unprocessed marijuana from Northern California gardens were sent to an isolated barn just off of I-5 in Merced where one raid resulted in the arrests of 64 Mexican Nationals connected to the Pulido Family, the seizure of 20 weapons including automatics, two pounds of meth and over 4,300 pounds of marijuana.

Ceres, California is just 50 miles north of Merced and on January 12, 2005 that town became the scene of the shooting of two Ceres Police Officers. During a gun battle with police Andres Raya allegedly injured Officer Sam Ryno and killed Sgt. Howard Stevenson. Raya a member of the “Norte o’s” is also a 19-year-old Marine that had recently returned from Iraq. Another former Marine and a member of the Nuestra Family is Gerald “Pistol” Rubalcaba is currently in Pelican Bay State Prison following the “hit” on another inmate while he was at Susanville’s California Correctional Center, which authorities say he was held responsible for.

In Siskiyou County there have been threats against local residents of the county. According to Sheriff Rick Riggins, a Hispanic marijuana grower held a man and his son at gunpoint. The grower took down their driver’s license information and they were told there would be consequences if they said anything.

Two years ago Sheriff Riggins said, “We lost $1.5 million from our budget and this year we lost over $900,000 last year.” In 2005 Riggings faces another problem – the increased in cost for helicopter flying time. The company that supplies the helicopter for Siskiyou County is increasing costs by $200 per hour and he also facing additional budget cuts.

Sheriff Riggins has been effective with his MET operations even with the budget cuts. His community awareness program is allowing more citizens to become involved. “We have had more citizen reports this last year than any other time,” Riggins told the Pioneer Press. People can report illegal activity without becoming involved. “We don’t even need their name, all they have to do is give us a direction and we will investigate,” said the Sheriff. Last year we investigated the Lau and Pulido families. Next year the sheriff has plans to investigate other arms of the Norte o families.

Riggins used an example from this last year, were there was a tip to sheriff officials, which resulted in a raid only 2 miles from the Etna City limits where over 3,000 plants were seized. This resulted in a police chase of an armed Mexican national who eventually eluded capture.

Redding Police Department, Sergeant John Hawkins of the Anti Gang Enforcement unit points out that in Redding, “There is an increase in Hispanic Gang involvement and there is also an increase in drug involvement in this area.” Hawkins is hopeful that the existing nation wide problem in urban communities is something we not see in Northern California. Commander Dan Callahan of the Shasta County Narcotics Task Force emphasized, “There is no end of crystal meth in the area.”

In Tehama County the drug problem with youth has caused devastation to many families. With Meth being the drug of choice by county youth, one only has to look at the problems that meth has created with the minors that are now incarcerated in the Tehama County Juvenile Justice Center.

Tehama County Sheriff Clay Parker has the same financial problems that all other sheriffs are facing. His department does what they can, but in order to be totally effective all counties need more resources and in addition community involvement has become most important.

In Tehama County there are know members of the Norte o’s and the number of youth involved with this known criminal enterprise is increasing. One of those claiming to be Norte o is Gabriel Farias (18). In the past, Farias has been under investigation for possession of automatic weapons. There were no formal charges filed. He is currently being held in the Tehama County Jail under $175,000 bail. He is being investigated for conspiracy to commit a crime, robbery, kidnapping, firearms violations and making criminal threats.

In Del Norte County Detective Sergeant Bill Steven explained that Del Norte County is financial strapped and as a result his drug enforcement team is at a bare minimum with both resources and manpower. Stevens did acknowledge the meth problem in his county and is hopeful that when the California budget crisis is over there will be help forthcoming. He was positive that in the future there would be changes made to help eradicate many of these illegal organizations.

A hopeful side of drug investigations comes from the Yurok Tribal Police Chief of Public Safety, Mike Ross. Ross has 40 years in law enforcement including his two terms as Sheriff in Del Norte County. He was with the Sonoma County Sheriff Department, holds a masters degree in Law Enforcement and consults to other agencies. Ross verified that there has been a drug problem in the entire area for years and that, “Meth has been the white drug of choice during that time.”

“We are aware that in the past and currently there is a drug problem up river [Klamath] but our information is non-specific. The locals want it stopped but they don’t want involvement,” said Ross. He went on to explain that the Tribe has adopted a no-tolerance drug policy and, “The Tribe is looking at a grant that will target drug manufacturing along the river, on tribal grounds and near the Tribes boundaries.” With the grant in place, one of Ross’s goals is to assign three marine deputies to work the 44 miles of the Klamath River between the Towns of Klamath and Weitchpec, California. The goal is to obtain intelligence information and to ultimately curtail the flow of drugs from that area.

Just across the border between California and Oregon is the town of Klamath, Oregon where the problem is a little different. The concern there is not only local drug producers but also the flow of drugs from California. As Officer James Williams with the Interagency Narcotics Team stated, “We have a lot of Hispanic gangs bringing narcotics in from California.”

The trial of money from these Mexican gangs through drug sales, prostitution, extortion and other gang related activities has now led to Pelican Bay State Prison where some of the money is being laundered. Pelican Bay authorities have acknowledged that inmates have accepted checks and money orders from Mexican drug families and distributed the funds to their own family members. According to a November 22, 2004 Associated Press story, “One gang member told authorities he spent upwards of $60,000 one year on his children’s college fund.”

All law enforcement agents interviewed agree, these dealers know no boundaries; there are no county lines or state lines. Whatever it takes to sell drugs and make money is acceptable. In California the problem has become a “major epidemic” and needs to be stopped.


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Editorial; Foreign Affairs; Government; Mexico; News/Current Events; US: California; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: aliens; california; drugwars; gangs; hispanicgangs; illegalaliens; immigrantlist; immigration; warondrugs; wodlist
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We have been hearing about these gangs operating on National Forest Service lands for some years. Ask anyone fighting fires what they come up against.
1 posted on 01/26/2005 12:33:45 PM PST by JustAnotherSavage
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To: gubamyster; ALIPAC; FBD; SheLion; mindspy; mysto; holyscroller; ozarkgirl; Outland; Rick Deckard; ..

From an earlier email:

COWS AND ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION:
Maybe it's just me, but does anyone else find it fascinating that our government can track a cow born in Canada almost three years ago, right to her stall in the state of Washington. They also tracked her calves to their stalls. Yet, we are somehow unable to locate 20 million illegal aliens wandering around our country. Maybe we should start giving each of them a cow when they cross the border.


2 posted on 01/26/2005 12:36:39 PM PST by JustAnotherSavage (When conservatives break their principles they seem to become casual about breaking the law, too.)
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To: JustAnotherSavage
Maybe we should start giving each of them a cow when they cross the border.

LOL.

Is the Director of Homeland Security position filled yet? If not, I nominate you.

3 posted on 01/26/2005 12:39:40 PM PST by skip_intro
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To: JustAnotherSavage

Thank you King George Bush for your infinite wisdom of forcing the criminal element on the law abiding middle class. We need more poverty, failing schools and hospitals, increased crime and higher taxes for taking care of those who could care less to assimilate. All hail elitist King Bush.


4 posted on 01/26/2005 12:41:27 PM PST by sasafras (sasafras (The road to hell is paved with good intentions))
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To: JustAnotherSavage
Maybe we should start giving each of them a cow when they cross the border.

LOL.

Is the Director of Homeland Security position filled yet? If not, I nominate you.

5 posted on 01/26/2005 12:41:44 PM PST by skip_intro
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To: JustAnotherSavage

Our government are nothing but internationalist traitors. There is no other explanation for not protecting our borders.


6 posted on 01/26/2005 12:42:13 PM PST by bahblahbah
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To: JustAnotherSavage
Maybe we should start giving each of them a cow when they cross the border.

I vote for a red hot branding.

7 posted on 01/26/2005 12:42:31 PM PST by afnamvet
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To: JustAnotherSavage; farmfriend; Grampa Dave; SierraWasp
Maybe we should start giving each of them a cow when they cross the border.

ROFL!! Good one!

8 posted on 01/26/2005 12:43:09 PM PST by Ernest_at_the_Beach (A Proud member of Free Republic ~~The New Face of the Fourth Estate since 1996.)
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To: Phsstpok

ping for later


9 posted on 01/26/2005 12:43:50 PM PST by Phsstpok ("When you don't know where you are, but you don't care, you're not lost, you're exploring.")
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To: JustAnotherSavage

This is old news. Illegals have CONTROLLED sales and production of MJ and meth in Oregon for years. Their just doing the jobs Americans won't.


10 posted on 01/26/2005 12:47:39 PM PST by investigateworld (Babies= A sure sign He hasn't given up on mankind!)
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach; All

I must give credit to Jeff Head for first posting the "cow" item.


11 posted on 01/26/2005 12:49:24 PM PST by JustAnotherSavage (When conservatives break their principles they seem to become casual about breaking the law, too.)
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To: JustAnotherSavage

It's an invasion!

Be Ever Vigilant!


12 posted on 01/26/2005 12:49:32 PM PST by blackie
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To: investigateworld
Their just doing the jobs Americans won't.

The President said that again in his press conference today. Twice.

He also reused his line about "family values not stopping at the Rio Grande".

He's certainly got a one track mind about this topic.

13 posted on 01/26/2005 12:52:47 PM PST by skip_intro
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To: JustAnotherSavage

Red bandana, blue bandana ? Aren't those the old Crips and Bloods insignia from the 80's ?


14 posted on 01/26/2005 12:53:08 PM PST by Sam the Sham
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To: bahblahbah; exhaustedmomma; All

Here's one I can't get my mind wrapped around. Illegal S. Korean immigrants....Why? The young ones seem to hate us and S. Korea is an open, free society. Earlier, Rep. Curt Weldon was on Cspan after a recent trip to N. Korea, very interesting with lots of photos, which is unusual for that place.

http://www.abqjournal.com/news/metro/apimmig01-24-05.htm
January 24, 2005

Korean Immigrants Arrested in Albuquerque
   
   
By Leslie Hoffman
The Associated Press
       ALBUQUERQUE   —   Fifteen illegal immigrants from South Korea and the man accused of trying to smuggle them across the United States were arrested on a New York-bound Amtrak train in Albuquerque, federal officials said Monday.
    The men and the alleged smuggler, 27-year-old Pyung Seop Lee, were arrested Thursday at the city's train station, according to U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement officials. Lee also is believed to be in the country illegally, officials said.
    The group, all men ranging from 23 to 35 years old, had Republic of Korea passports that lacked the proper U.S. visa or admission stamps, according to the agency.
    A criminal complaint filed in U.S. District Court in Albuquerque says authorities were tipped off about the group by Drug Enforcement Administration investigators who noted the foreign nationals' reservations on the Amtrak train's travel manifest.
    When agents intercepted the train bound for New York, Lee told them the group was part of a tour. He said he was traveling with the group until they reached Chicago but was not part of the tour. The agents then found the mens' train tickets, passports and $4,000 cash in Lee's luggage, according to the complaint.
    During an initial appearance Friday, U.S. Magistrate Robert H. Scott remanded Lee into the custody of the U.S. Marshal Service. Lee was set for a preliminary hearing Jan. 28.
    "A priority of ICE is to eliminate the vulnerabilities that criminal enterprises exploit when they bring illegal aliens into the United States," said Peter J. Smith, special agent in charge of the agency's El Paso, Texas, office.
    Two of the illegal immigrants, Dae Seong Jeon and Jeong Geon Park, told investigators they flew from Korea Dec. 21 to Canada. After spending a week in a Vancouver motel, they said they joined six other Koreans and were driven across the U.S.-Canada border to Los Angeles.
    After about a month stashed in a Los Angeles house, they said Lee came to the house and instructed the group to meet him at an Amtrak train station, where they boarded the train.
    Some of those traveling in the group said they believed they would have to pay when they arrived at their destination.
   


15 posted on 01/26/2005 12:57:05 PM PST by JustAnotherSavage (When conservatives break their principles they seem to become casual about breaking the law, too.)
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To: JustAnotherSavage

Mexicans can't be getting everything.


16 posted on 01/26/2005 12:59:52 PM PST by John Will
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To: JustAnotherSavage
Do you know if these two gang-banging swine took advantage of Bush's new fast-track to American citizenship program, for aliens that enlist in our armed forces, or were they born here?

Glad to see their family values don't get washed off in the Rio Grande. >/sarcasm<

17 posted on 01/26/2005 1:00:32 PM PST by 4Freedom (America is no longer the 'Land of Opportunity', it's the 'Land of Illegal Alien Opportunists'!!!>)
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To: skip_intro

I just caught the tail end of that press conference. Who was the reporter that asked him about illegal immigration. The President does seem a little more alert about the issue. We need to hammer these press people to ask him, "What are the jobs Americans will not do?"


18 posted on 01/26/2005 1:02:28 PM PST by JustAnotherSavage (When conservatives break their principles they seem to become casual about breaking the law, too.)
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To: JustAnotherSavage

Don't know. I didn't see it. I just read the transcript.


19 posted on 01/26/2005 1:04:04 PM PST by skip_intro
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To: skip_intro
I admire and support Dubya on most of his ideas. I even cracked open the old check book during the campaign, joined PW guys and gals at an event. Drove two hours to get Nader on the ballot in Oregon. One can safely say I support him.
But on this issue, I'm seeing something I don't like.
If he wants to destroy the Republican Party, he sure is doing his best. That sounds hasty, but I know the bottom line.
20 posted on 01/26/2005 1:04:26 PM PST by investigateworld (Babies= A sure sign He hasn't given up on mankind!)
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To: skip_intro
He also reused his line about "family values not stopping at the Rio Grande".

In other words Bush has no intention of ever controlling the borders no matter how much pressure from the American people is put on him.

21 posted on 01/26/2005 1:15:25 PM PST by Reaganwuzthebest
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To: Sam the Sham
Red bandana, blue bandana ? Aren't those the old Crips and Bloods insignia from the 80's ?

Yes they are. From the streets of Compton to cells of San Quintin/Folsom and then back to the barrios of East LA and then on to Northern California when the shacks in the barrios were bringing $350K in California's sellers market making their owners relatively wealthy and mobile.

22 posted on 01/26/2005 1:20:48 PM PST by Amerigomag
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To: JustAnotherSavage

IMO this is very racist. Why are asians being arrested when mexicans are free to move about the country. I hope the ACLU steps up to bat and puts a end to this. If mexicans are allowed to live and work here then the rest of the world should be treated equally. Anything else goes against everything America stands for.


23 posted on 01/26/2005 1:26:01 PM PST by winodog (I am gonna stop calling them liberals. They are humanists. Liberal is actually a good word)
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To: winodog

Curious, to say the least, winodog.


24 posted on 01/26/2005 1:34:33 PM PST by JustAnotherSavage ("We are all sinners. But jerks revel in their sins." PJ O'Rourke)
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To: investigateworld; All

Yes, it's old news to people who live around it, but the rest of the country seems oblivious. Here's some more.
________



The multibillion-dollar Mexican cartels have discovered it's safer and more profitable to grow marijuana in the United States than to try to smuggle it across the border, he said. Instead, they're often importing guards and handing them firearms with orders to shoot at anyone coming by.

They're also branching into methamphetamine production, often using what authorities have dubbed "super labs." And this summer authorities for the first time discovered 40,000 opium poppies growing in a remote area of the Sierra National Forest bordering Yosemite National Park. The poppy plants originated in Mexico, Drug Enforcement Administration spokesman Richard Meyer said Monday.

Three-fourths of the marijuana gardens discovered by California authorities this year were on public lands like state and national parks and forests. As recently as 2001, the majority of plants were seized from private land.

California's recent harvest season was one of the most violent in years.

In just one deadly week in September, law enforcement officials in Northern California fatally shot four armed guards protecting marijuana plantations. San Luis Obispo County sheriff's deputies were shot at as they entered a garden; a hunter walking near a marijuana grove in Los Padres National Forest was shot at by three men armed with automatic weapons, and guards tending a Ventura County garden shot at a backcountry hunter.

snip-----
http://www.theava.com/03/1224-marijuana.html


25 posted on 01/26/2005 1:40:42 PM PST by JustAnotherSavage ("We are all sinners. But jerks revel in their sins." PJ O'Rourke)
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To: 1_Inch_Group; 2sheep; 2Trievers; 3AngelaD; 4.1O dana super trac pak; 4Freedom; 4ourprogeny; ...

ping


26 posted on 01/26/2005 1:41:09 PM PST by gubamyster
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To: Ol' Dan Tucker; NormsRevenge; blackeagle; newzjunkey; RightWhale; nonliberal; abigail2; ...

More on this subject:


A Pot Farm May Be Coming To Your Local Park Soon

POSTED: 4:32 pm PST November 4, 2004
UPDATED: 1:41 am PST November 5, 2004

SAN JOSE -- The war on drugs, is no longer concentrated solely along our borders, it's now in our own backyard.

In places such as Santa Clara County where hundreds of marijuana plants were recently discovered tucked away in Joseph Grant County Park near the foothills of East San Jose.


"This isn't some kids planting a few pot plants in the park, this is a big scale production," said Dave Darren, of the Bureau of Narcotics Enforcement.---snip
http://www.ktvu.com/station/3891621/detail.html


27 posted on 01/26/2005 1:46:56 PM PST by JustAnotherSavage ("We are all sinners. But jerks revel in their sins." PJ O'Rourke)
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To: Sam the Sham
One of their identifying pieces of clothing is... a San Francisco 49ers bomber jacket

C'mon. How tough can they be?

28 posted on 01/26/2005 1:54:19 PM PST by skeeter (OBL "Americans" won't honor any law that interferes with their pocketbooks)
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Comment #29 Removed by Moderator

To: JustAnotherSavage
In just one deadly week in September, law enforcement officials in Northern California fatally shot four armed guards protecting marijuana plantations<<

We are now officially a banana republic.
30 posted on 01/26/2005 1:55:44 PM PST by hushpad (Come on baby. . .Don't fear the FReeper. . .)
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To: Amerigomag; FITZ; All

More:
---snip----
Small-time entrepreneurs have been joined by drug gangs, many from Mexico.

"This is about big, big money," says John Gaines, a special agent. "This is about making a profit, taking the profit out of the United States, taking it back to Mexico. This is organized crime, bottom line." ---snip

http://election.cbsnews.com/stories/2001/02/05/60II/main269478.shtml

In October, Gaines and officers from the state narcotics bureau finished a three-year investigation that culminated in the arrests of 41 people, all allegedly working for the Maganyas, a Mexican crime family. The Maganyas have realized over five years a profit estimated at $40 million to $50 million, he says.


31 posted on 01/26/2005 1:56:49 PM PST by JustAnotherSavage ("We are all sinners. But jerks revel in their sins." PJ O'Rourke)
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To: skeeter

Weren't Oakland Raiders jackets gang insignia way back before Ice Cube turned into Bill Cosby ?


32 posted on 01/26/2005 1:59:04 PM PST by Sam the Sham
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To: hushpad; All; jeremiah; varon; DoughtyOne; WmDonovan; Semaphore Heathcliffe; Endeavor; badbass; ...

MORE, from the government.....
http://reform.house.gov/EPNRRA/Hearings/EventSingle.aspx?EventID=467


October 10, 2003 - Drug Production on Public Lands - A Growing Problem
108th Congress

Friday, October 10, 2003 10:00 AM

Drug Production on Public Lands - A Growing Problem
Witness Testimony
Witness List
Testimony of Richard Martin (DOI/NPS)
Testimony of Arthur Gaffrey, Forest Supervisor (USDA/FS)
Testimony of Stephen Delgado, (DOJ/DEA)
Testimony of Lisa Mulz (California Department of Parks and Recreation)
Testimony of Val Jiminez (California Bureau of Narcotic Enforcement)
Testimony of Joe Fontaine (Wilderness Watch)

 
Welcome to the beautiful Sequoia National Park. We are here today to examine the alarming increase of illegal drug production in our National parks and forests.

Over a century ago, the National Park Service and the U.S. Forest Service were created to protect our Nation’s most pristine and historic lands for the enjoyment of Americans today, and for the enjoyment of the generations yet to come. We are here today because that very mission is threatened by rampant illegal drug cultivation on our public lands.

Lands that were once the epitome of natural beauty have become large-scale marijuana farms and toxic waste sites. Terraced hillsides and cannabis plants have replaced lush trees and foliage. Plastic irrigation tubing has overrun bubbling brooks and streams. And, human waste and litter have covered the organic forest floor. Yet, this is only part of the problem. Visitors, naturalists, and rangers, who were once able to roam the lands freely, are now in grave danger of being injured or killed by marijuana growers armed with AK-47s, handguns, and machetes.

For years, relatively small illegal drug operations have existed on our national lands. After September 11, 2001, however, our border security tightened significantly, and drug smugglers reacted by moving drug production from Mexico to the United States. --snip


33 posted on 01/26/2005 2:01:05 PM PST by JustAnotherSavage ("We are all sinners. But jerks revel in their sins." PJ O'Rourke)
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To: JustAnotherSavage

All sarcastic of course.


34 posted on 01/26/2005 2:08:33 PM PST by winodog (I am gonna stop calling them liberals. They are humanists. Liberal is actually a good word)
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To: Sam the Sham
Yep, Raiders merchandise used to be de riguer 'cause gang members liked being associated with fearsome images.

Evidently thats no longer the case...

35 posted on 01/26/2005 2:09:11 PM PST by skeeter (OBL "Americans" won't honor any law that interferes with their pocketbooks)
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To: JustAnotherSavage
Welcome to the beautiful Sequoia National Park. We are here today to examine the alarming increase of illegal drug production in our National parks and forests.<<

Someone tell me if I need tinfoil, but didn't CLINTON shut down access roads a bunch of our forests and parks?

Maybe the former Pres. knew about this, made it easy for them under "environmental Concerns", and is even now living off of the kick-backs. I'm serious. What about gray davis, could he have turned a blind eye?
36 posted on 01/26/2005 2:12:35 PM PST by hushpad (Come on baby. . .Don't fear the FReeper. . .)
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To: passionfruit

Hey Passionfruit, are you sure you want to move to Klamath? Sounds like you may have some very enterprising neighbors.


37 posted on 01/26/2005 2:13:39 PM PST by holyscroller (A wise man's heart directs him toward the right, but the foolish man's heart directs him to the left)
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To: skeeter

Are these new gangs going to make the Crips and the Bloods and NWA and Public Enemy and "Straight Outta Compton" and Easy E and "Boyz in the Hood" seem quaint ?


38 posted on 01/26/2005 2:14:39 PM PST by Sam the Sham
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach
Could we give 'em one of them Canadian Mad Cows?

I'd like to see 'em saddle-up one of them pist-off cows!!!

39 posted on 01/26/2005 2:28:19 PM PST by SierraWasp (Moderates, are just too chicken to commit to any ideal!!! They prefer sophisticated sophistry...)
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To: Sam the Sham
Are these new gangs going to make the Crips and the Bloods and NWA and Public Enemy and "Straight Outta Compton" and Easy E and "Boyz in the Hood" seem quaint ?

Maybe, but on the other hand picking a 2-13 team as a mascot can't exactly be putting the fear o' God into 'em, either.

40 posted on 01/26/2005 2:29:42 PM PST by skeeter (OBL "Americans" won't honor any law that interferes with their pocketbooks)
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To: investigateworld; marsh2; forester; tubebender; hedgetrimmer; Iconoclast2; AuntB; Phil V.; ...
"Their just doing the jobs Americans won't."

So now they're gettin ta be organized labor and replacin the old dope smokin cowboys with milkin machines, right???

Welcome back to tha wild... wild... WEST!!! (git along little dubies)

41 posted on 01/26/2005 2:35:48 PM PST by SierraWasp (Moderates, are just too chicken to commit to any ideal!!! They prefer sophisticated sophistry...)
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To: JustAnotherSavage; TigerLikesRooster
Here's one I can't get my mind wrapped around. Illegal S. Korean immigrants....

Perhaps TLR can give you some insight.

42 posted on 01/26/2005 2:37:19 PM PST by Carry_Okie (There are people in power who are really stupid.)
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To: SierraWasp
Actually, they're getting closer to Chinamart with economies of scale and vertical integration.
Plus a loyalty that Sam Walton would envy!
43 posted on 01/26/2005 2:41:02 PM PST by investigateworld (Babies= A sure sign He hasn't given up on mankind!)
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To: sasafras
Thank you King George Bush for your infinite wisdom of forcing the criminal element on the law abiding middle class. We need more poverty, failing schools and hospitals, increased crime and higher taxes for taking care of those who could care less to assimilate. All hail elitist King Bush.

And this is exactly what he is giving us.

44 posted on 01/26/2005 2:42:45 PM PST by Joe Hadenuf (No more illegal alien sympathizers from Texas. America has one too many.)
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To: Carry_Okie; All

Some ancient history:

Founding Fathers' Attitudes toward Immigrants
The founding fathers were aware of the benefits of encouraging immigrants to settle in the American colonies, but even with the benefits, many of our political leaders had their suspicions concerning immigrants.

Benjamin Franklin had his concerns over the rising number of German immigrants who were pouring into Pennsylvania. He had "misgivings about Germans because of their clannishness, their little knowledge of English, the German press, and the increasing need of interpreters. Speaking of the latter he said, ‘I suppose in a few years they will also be necessary in the Assembly, to tell one-half of our legislators what the other half say.'" (Keely 1979, 9)

On July 7, 1775, the General Washington had issued a General Order that no man should be appointed a sentry who was not a ‘native of the country,’ and three days later he approved an order to the recruiting service ‘not to enlist any person who is not an American-born, unless such person has a wife and family and is a settled resident in this country.’ For service in his own military guard the General permitted only native-born Americans. He inveighed against the relatively large number of foreign officers and adventurers among his troops. ‘My opinion, with respect to emigration,’ he advised John Adams, ‘is that except of useful mechanics and some particular descriptions of men or professions, there is no need of encouragement, while the policy or advantage of its taking place in a body (I mean the settling of them in a body) may be much questioned; for, by so doing, they retain the language, habits, and principles (good or bad) which they bring with them.’ (Bennett 1963, 7)

Thomas Jefferson  favored immigration restriction. In 1782 he stated in part in his Notes on Virginia:

‘But are there no inconveniences to be thrown into the scale against any advantage expected form a multiplication of numbers by the importation of foreigners? It is for the happiness of those united in society to harmonize as much as possible in matters which of necessity they must transact together. Civil government being the sole object of forming societies, its administration must be conducted by common consent. Every species of government has its specific principles. Ours, perhaps, are more peculiar than those of any other. It is a composition of the freest principles of the English Constitution with others derived from natural right and reason. To these nothing can be more opposed than the maxims of absolute monarchies. Yet, from such we are to expect the greatest number of immigrants. They will bring with them the principles of governments they leave, or if able to throw them off, it will be in exchange for an unbounded licentiousness, passing, as usual, from one extreme to the other. It would be a miracle were they to stop precisely atthe point of temperate liberty. These principles, with their language, they will transmit to their children. In proportion to their numbers they will share legislation with us. They will infuse into it their spirit, warp or bias its direction, and render it a heterogeneous, incoherent, distracted mass.’ (Bennett 1963, 8)
Once the Revolutionary War began with Great Britain, the Continental Congress assumed political authority for the thirteen colonies. The Continental Congress approved in 1781 The Articles of Confederation, the first constitution of the United States.

In regards to immigration laws, the Continental Congress, under the Articles of Confederation, did not claim its authority to regulate immigration. The authority for immigration continued to be at the state level. "Under Article 4 of the Articles of Confederation adopted in 1778, the citizens of each state were made citizens of every other state, but each state retained its own naturalization and immigration laws and standards. This resulted in continued confusion and ineffective legislation concerning immigration." (Bennett 1963, 9)
  http://www.oriole.umd.edu/~mddlmddl/791/legal/html/immi1700.html


45 posted on 01/26/2005 2:42:53 PM PST by JustAnotherSavage ("We are all sinners. But jerks revel in their sins." PJ O'Rourke)
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To: JustAnotherSavage
What morons.

These mexican mafia gang-bangers can't even be original.

The "blue bandanas" and the "red bandanas" have already been claimed by the Crips and the Bloods long ago.

/half sarcasm

46 posted on 01/26/2005 2:45:18 PM PST by kstewskis ( you have to have a mind before you lose it....)
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To: JustAnotherSavage
Some Constitutional Law:

As written, the 14th Amendment was NOT intended to grant citizenship to the children of foreign subjects.

The Slaughterhouse Cases are the first Supreme Court interpretation of the 14th Amendment on record. The author of the majority opinion is a contemporary of those who drafted and debated the Amendment. The following text is from the majority opinion (about 3/4 of the way down the linked source page):

http://www2.law.cornell.edu/cgi-bin/foliocgi.exe/historic/query=[group+f_slavery!3A]/doc/{@6621}/hit_headings/words=4

Slaughterhouse Cases, 83 U.S. 36 (1872) (USSC+)
Opinions
MILLER, J., Opinion of the Court

"All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside."

The first observation we have to make on this clause is that it puts at rest both the questions which we stated to have been the subject of differences of opinion. It declares that persons may be citizens of the United States without regard to their citizenship of a particular State, and it overturns the Dred Scott decision by making all persons born within the United States and subject to its jurisdiction citizens of the United States. That its main purpose was to establish the citizenship of the negro can admit of no doubt. The phrase, "subject to its jurisdiction" was intended to exclude from its operation children of ministers, consuls, and citizens or subjects of foreign States born within the United States.


47 posted on 01/26/2005 2:46:40 PM PST by Carry_Okie (There are people in power who are really stupid.)
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To: skip_intro
He also reused his line about "family values not stopping at the Rio Grande".

What a dangerous piece of inanity! No, family values do not stop at the Rio Grande, nor at the Pacific or Atlantic. Is the President denying the very concept of the Nation? That his duty is to his own people, to our families, not the families of the rest of humanity?!!

I am sorry if I offend some fellow Conservatives, who have embraced the Bush Administration as one of ours. I do not believe that a rational assessment supports that embrasure or the conclusions that go into it. The evidence becomes daily more compelling that we are in a Clinton/Bush era, where the ideal is seen as membership in an undifferentiated humanity; not the ideal of your or I, or our rooted neighbors; but the ideal of those who have come for a moment in time--a 16 year moment in time--to control the Federal Government of the United States.

May God forgive us, if we fail to reverse this sickening trend! We will not deserve such forgiveness. To better address the whole question of Immigration, see Immigration & The American Future.

William Flax

48 posted on 01/26/2005 2:48:36 PM PST by Ohioan
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To: Carry_Okie

"was intended to exclude from its operation children of ministers, consuls, and citizens or subjects of foreign States born within the United States."

Thanks, I read that every time you post it. HOW did it get so perverted to include anchor babies? nevermind....


49 posted on 01/26/2005 2:53:42 PM PST by JustAnotherSavage ("We are all sinners. But jerks revel in their sins." PJ O'Rourke)
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To: JustAnotherSavage

"The multibillion-dollar Mexican cartels have discovered it's safer and more profitable to grow marijuana in the United States than to try to smuggle it across the border, he said. Instead, they're often importing guards and handing them firearms with orders to shoot at anyone coming by."

This will only get worse as border security tightens. Unless demand for marijuana decreases, which is unlikely, what we're going to see in the future is more and more domestic production, both outdoor and indoor grown. As they crack down on the outdoor grown, we'll see more and more indoor grown and average THC levels will rise accordingly. At least more of the money will stay here, but of course pot is dirt cheap in Mexico and lions share of the money that is made from pot is made here anyway. The problem is that most of the pot on the streets today is from Mexico and Mexicans control most of the wholesale distribution of it here in the states. A lot of them send much of their money back home to Mexico.


50 posted on 01/26/2005 3:16:16 PM PST by TKDietz
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