Posted on 01/26/2005 10:37:01 PM PST by neverdem
The Shroud of Turin is much older than the medieval date that modern science has affixed to it and could be old enough to have been the burial wrapping of Jesus, a new analysis concludes.
Since 1988, most scientists have confidently concluded that it was the work of a medieval artist, because carbon dating had placed the production of the fabric between 1260 and 1390.
In an article this month in the journal Thermochimica Acta, Dr. Raymond N. Rogers, a chemist retired from Los Alamos National Laboratory, said the carbon dating test was valid but that the piece tested was about the size of a postage stamp and came from a portion that had been patched.
"We're darned sure that part of the cloth was not original Shroud of Turin cloth," he said, adding that threads from the main part of the shroud were pure linen, which is spun from flax.
The threads in the patched portion contained cotton as well and had been dyed to match.
From other tests, he estimated that the shroud was between 1,300 and 3,000 years old.
Bump to that. Who cares, anyway? What's the point? Ooooh, it's Christ's sweat, it's holy! Not.
Whosoever believes in Him shall have eternal life. NOT whoever checks out his hanky.
How likely is it that the image is still without plausible explanation after so much archeology has been learned already. I'll agree that we don't know what we don't know.
Halleluja
Great article...thank you for the ping.
If the man of the Shroud wanted an ongoing PR campaign, he got it; at the hands of the scientists who botched the carbon 14 testing in 1988. This story is not just about the Shroud but about carbon 14 dating and what can go wrong.
There are, in understanding what went wrong, important lessons that will ripple through archeology, anthropology, forensics and science lecture halls whenever and wherever carbon 14 dating is discussed. Students will ask why a single sample from a suspect corner was used. They will wonder why protestations from experts in the Shroud's chemistry were ignored. The will ask why documented data was not considered. They will talk about the clues of material intrusion that were simply ignored.
Material intrusion is well known in the application of carbon 14 dating. A classic example is to be found in the dating of peat bogs. Very old bogs often contain miniscule roots from newer plants that grew in the peat. The roots of these plants, sometimes having decomposed, are nearly indistinguishable from the older peat. What ends up being tested is a mixture of old and new material which produces an average, meaningless carbon 14 age. No one seemed to consider, in 1988, that material intrusion might be a serious problem with the Shroud of Turin carbon 14 dating even though clues were there.
The 1988 carbon 14 dating failure will not be ignored; for how does one ignore such a famous example. It should not be ignored because of the lessons to be learned. It cannot be ignored so long students raise hands and Google-check lecture notes. It should not be ignored when journalists and authors write about carbon 14 dating. There are textbooks, encyclopedias and many websites to be updated.
Dan
Because the Catholic Bishop in charge of the Shroud dictated the areas they could take samples from and how much could be taken.
Actually its more than that. Scientists and theologians believe that at the moment of the ressurection Christ's image went through the shroud, and what you are looking at is the molecular transformation of the image of Christ left upon the shroud.
True, its important to not put your faith in a piece of cloth, but at the same time to think possibly that the image of Christ was left for us to view, must give you pause, no?
I have a two hundred year old book with numerous end pages. If I draw George Washington on one of those pages with two hundred year old ink, is the drawing 200 years old?
It's the total amount of the Grants these dudes pocket which interests me. Nothing more helpful than friendly disagreement to help line their pockets.
In the end, no matter what the timetable, it still just an image, not Jesus. Just another case of the unprovable.
Please add mt to the Shroud PING list.
Thank you!
Any scientist that "confidently concluded that it was the work of a medieval artist" based only on the carbon dating was ignoring the rest of the evidence, which overwhelmingly supports the Shroud's authenticity.
BTW, how did this get into the NY Times?
Uh, the Shroud bears an image of our Savior? It seems to be of miraculous origin? It has converted many skeptical scientists who've studied it? It can be used to bring souls to Christ?
What part does a piece of cloth play in my salvation?
What part may Christ's burial shroud play in someone else's salvation?
Amazing how this obvious connection is missed by all those who say the Shroud "appeared" in the 15 century.
Probably the same credulous people who promote the DaVinci Code.
It's not easy to scorch a negative, pigment-free image onto cloth that when analyzed using a NASA terrain analyzer reveals a 3-dimensional image of a human body. In fact, it's such a difficult task that scientists today are unable to do it or provide an explanation for it. The medieval forger must have been very talented.
You treat what appears to be the burial cloth of Christ with contempt? Relics are not to be despised. Sripture reveals the power of relics:
2 Kings 13:21Of how much value then is Christ's burial cloth; cloth that contains His precious blood?Once while some Israelites were burying a man, suddenly they saw a band of raiders; so they threw the man's body into Elisha's tomb. When the body touched Elisha's bones, the man came to life and stood up on his feet.
The statement that it can't be reproduced is absurd. Artists make three dimensional drawings all the time. AB blood and body fluids still exist.
Obviously, the area tested wasn't believed to be a patch at the time. Because carbon 14 testing is destructive, there won't be any more tests in the forseeable future.
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