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Navy photos of Submarine USS San Francisco in Dry Dock (you won't believe the extent of damage!)
U.S. Navy ^

Posted on 01/27/2005 12:42:24 PM PST by Boot Hill

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To: Fudd
The sub is salvageable. IIRC, the reactor stuff is in the back of the sub. But it depends on if it is cost-effective to strip out the front half of the sub and repair/replace it. It also depends on if there is a political will to fix it.

Just because the reactor "stuff" is in the back, does not mean that there was no damage. A lot of thought and examination will have to be done before this baby can be considered salvageable.

101 posted on 01/27/2005 1:23:59 PM PST by WildTurkey (When will CBS Retract and Apologize?)
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To: Boot Hill

Notice also that there is a safety rail installed along the narrow spine of the boat. When I built subs, there was no safety rail, and the walkway was narrow, and even narrower at night in the icy winter. Still, we lost only a small percentasge of engineers due to slipping off into the water.


102 posted on 01/27/2005 1:24:38 PM PST by RightWhale (Please correct if cosmic balance requires.)
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To: Boot Hill

103 posted on 01/27/2005 1:24:39 PM PST by reagan_fanatic (Rap - the other Disco)
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To: Bahbah

no you're correct. I was just being irreverent.


104 posted on 01/27/2005 1:25:10 PM PST by Tempest (Click on my name for a long list of press contacts)
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To: 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub

BTT!!!!!!


105 posted on 01/27/2005 1:26:18 PM PST by E.G.C.
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To: Tempest
I was just being irreverent.

Part of the spice of life and the fun at FR.

106 posted on 01/27/2005 1:27:13 PM PST by Bahbah
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To: OXENinFLA; PhilDragoo; MeekOneGOP; devolve; Boazo; Grampa Dave; Conspiracy Guy; Smartass; ...
How does a ship float? - ping.

(Photos of the aftermath of the U.S.S. San Francisco in dry dock after she collided with an unmapped undersea mountain.)

107 posted on 01/27/2005 1:27:33 PM PST by Happy2BMe ("Islam fears democracy worse than anything If the imams can't control it - they will kill it.)
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To: Boot Hill

There's a technical Navy term for this type of accident: Career Ender.


108 posted on 01/27/2005 1:28:12 PM PST by pke
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach
Very interesting.

Thanks for the link.

Cheers.

109 posted on 01/27/2005 1:28:37 PM PST by Martin Tell (Red States Rule)
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To: msdrby; Darksheare; SAMWolf
PING SMACK
110 posted on 01/27/2005 1:29:00 PM PST by Professional Engineer (The number exactly halfway between +1 and -1 is not "OH".)
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To: 1Old Pro

Uh-oh, now you've done it! Senators are going to be telling us that Bush doesn't care about the military...and demand that seat belts be installed in all subs!


111 posted on 01/27/2005 1:29:14 PM PST by SAMS (h)
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To: Boot Hill

BTTT


112 posted on 01/27/2005 1:29:31 PM PST by davidosborne (www.davidosborne.net)
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To: Bahbah
Man oh man, have you seen this. I have to think that the Captain and the crew of this vessel did an incredible job.

You mean apart from running it aground I assume? :-)

But you're right... that's one heck of a damage control effort. And only one fatality?

113 posted on 01/27/2005 1:29:34 PM PST by IMRight ("Eye" See BS)
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To: Lazamataz
"That's classified."

LOL...I could tell ya, but then I'd haveta kill ya...MUD

114 posted on 01/27/2005 1:30:04 PM PST by Mudboy Slim (Create a new League of Nations, a LeagueOfFReeNations!!)
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To: WildTurkey
"How can you tell it is the pressure hull that has buckled..."

I can't, that's why I said "hull", not "pressure hull".

--Boot Hill

115 posted on 01/27/2005 1:30:14 PM PST by Boot Hill (How do you verbalize a noun?)
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To: Blueflag
Kudos to the constructors and crew.

Well, it was built in Newport News …
116 posted on 01/27/2005 1:34:00 PM PST by R. Scott (Humanity i love you because when you're hard up you pawn your Intelligence to buy a drink.)
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Comment #117 Removed by Moderator

To: Boot Hill
That warping is just the outer hull. The pressure hull looks to be in fair shape. I'd be surprised, however, if there's anything salvageable in the forward sonar suite.
118 posted on 01/27/2005 1:35:58 PM PST by Redcloak (No, I haven't been drinking.)
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To: Bahbah; Poohbah; All
Without resorting to "bashing" the skipper, it IS probable that he is finished commanding a sub for a while.

The Navy is EXTREMELY unforgiving of damage to a nuclear submarine, and all responsibility rests in his hands.

Here's the thing...the mountain was uncharted. Okay. However, there were many OTHER charted mountains in the area, and he should have been aware of this fact. He also should have been cognizant of the fact that the area had a lot of "holes" in the charting. Given this, trucking along at flank speed would seem a bit unwise.

That, at least, is my estimation of what the accident review will focus on, and use in the inquiry.

If indeed he performed well in the aftermath in getting the ship home, that will weigh in his favor. He might NOT see his career ended, but he will almost certainly be relieved.

Those are just a few of the things in play. The Navy's bias, for good or ill, will be to hammer the skipper. We take VERY strictly the resposibilities and accountability of a sub skipper. Seldom, if ever, is slack granted.

119 posted on 01/27/2005 1:36:49 PM PST by Long Cut (The Constitution...the NATOPS of America!)
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To: Boot Hill

30 knots + mountain.. frankly its quite amazing to me there was only 1 death in this whole thing.


120 posted on 01/27/2005 1:37:19 PM PST by HamiltonJay
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To: 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub

A wonder of construction and mighty fine handling to get that vessel back home.


121 posted on 01/27/2005 1:37:36 PM PST by TASMANIANRED (Certified cause of Post Traumatic Redhead Syndrome)
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To: justshutupandtakeit
"He drove me and my wife crazy while growing up. Hated school and refused to do ANY work. We didn't know until the last moment if he would graduate from High School.

Dad, is that you?

(Just remember, someday he'll have kids and revenge is sweet!)

--Boot Hill

122 posted on 01/27/2005 1:37:44 PM PST by Boot Hill (How do you verbalize a noun?)
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To: Boot Hill
If this had been one of the later boats with the 12 vertical launch Tomahawk tubes between the Sonar and the Pressure hull, it would have been all over.

SO9

123 posted on 01/27/2005 1:38:25 PM PST by Servant of the 9 (Trust Me)
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To: bigfootbob
This looks like a Trident class sub…

USS SAN FRANCISCO is the 24th submarine in the LOS ANGELES class and the sixth ship of that class built by Newport News Shipbuilding in Newport News, Va.
124 posted on 01/27/2005 1:38:33 PM PST by R. Scott (Humanity i love you because when you're hard up you pawn your Intelligence to buy a drink.)
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To: Boot Hill

agreed it's amazing it made it home but I was under the impression subs are designed to "compartmentalize" in sections to ward of damage and water taking the whole thing down.


125 posted on 01/27/2005 1:40:04 PM PST by SunnySide (Ephes2:8 ByGraceYou'veBeenSavedThruFaithAGiftOfGodSoNoOneCanBoast)
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To: Fierce Allegiance

"Damn, the tarp did that much damage?"

No you idiot. That's just there so it doesn't get WET!


126 posted on 01/27/2005 1:42:03 PM PST by geopyg ("It's not that liberals don't know much, it's just that what they know just ain't so." (~ R. Reagan))
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To: SAMS
acually there are seat belts on boats. All watchstander in control (Diving officer, helm/planesmen, Chief of the Watch, Fire Control Tech of the Watch) and even in the Sonar watch space have seatbelts.

High speed transit isn't one of the times they're used. Rough sea transit and P/D ops in rough waters are when they are used.
Been there, done that more times than I care to remember *L*
127 posted on 01/27/2005 1:42:09 PM PST by Bottom_Gun (Crush depth dummy)
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To: WildTurkey
I'm a Hampton Inn kinda guy, myself. LOL :-)


128 posted on 01/27/2005 1:42:42 PM PST by Viking2002 (Let's get the Insurrection started, already..............)
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To: geopyg

:)


129 posted on 01/27/2005 1:44:38 PM PST by Fierce Allegiance (GO PATS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)
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To: Centurion2000; Lazamataz
What exactly is the trap for ? Covering classified stuff?

That's classified.

Ha ha! you walked right into his tarp.

130 posted on 01/27/2005 1:44:41 PM PST by 70times7 (An open mind is a cesspool of thought)
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To: xrp

I'm no sub expert, but I'm going to say "yes". We were already drawing down our fleet.


131 posted on 01/27/2005 1:46:15 PM PST by FreedomPoster
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To: Long Cut; backhoe
Skipper of submarine San Francisco relieved of command
132 posted on 01/27/2005 1:46:33 PM PST by Ernest_at_the_Beach (A Proud member of Free Republic ~~The New Face of the Fourth Estate since 1996.)
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To: Long Cut; hchutch
Here's the thing...the mountain was uncharted. Okay. However, there were many OTHER charted mountains in the area, and he should have been aware of this fact. He also should have been cognizant of the fact that the area had a lot of "holes" in the charting. Given this, trucking along at flank speed would seem a bit unwise.

Excellent analysis.

Back in the 1950s, my father served on an Admiralty Court at COMFLEACT Yokosuka. During the proceedings, the president of the court was asked for a ruling on the definition of the phrase "reasonably prudent man." (As in "Under Article XXX of the Rules of the Road, and given these circumstances, a reasonably prudent man would do...")

Without missing a beat, the president replied, "A reasonably prudent man is one who checks for toilet paper before sitting down."

133 posted on 01/27/2005 1:46:52 PM PST by Poohbah (God must love fools. He makes so many of them...)
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To: WildTurkey
Thank God they didn't hit an undersea mount.

That is what they hit - uncharted undersea mountain.

Officials: U.S. submarine hit undersea mountain

134 posted on 01/27/2005 1:47:05 PM PST by Arrowhead1952 (.drawkcab si enilgat yM !!PLEH)
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To: All

CDR Mooney and his crew just gave the world an example of American seamanship that they can be proud of for generations.

Its also an example of how Newport News Shipyard and Drydock Company builds the finest submarines in the world. Bar none.

Thats a tremendously damaged submarine, folks. I believe its sailing days are over for good.


135 posted on 01/27/2005 1:48:38 PM PST by judicial meanz
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To: Fudd
The sub is salvageable. IIRC, the reactor stuff is in the back of the sub. But it depends on if it is cost-effective to strip out the front half of the sub and repair/replace it. It also depends on if there is a political will to fix it.

You would have to disassemble most of the boat and xray and test parts to see if they were weakened by shear forces when the impact happened. There could be seriously weakened bolts and connectors all the way back to the prop. Also, since the Los Angeles Class build is over, there may be a lot of jigs and fixtures needed to manufacture major hull components that are no longer available.

My guess is that it would cost almost as much as a new Seawolf Class boat to repair her.

SO9

136 posted on 01/27/2005 1:49:09 PM PST by Servant of the 9 (Trust Me)
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To: Boot Hill
This is mind boggling, I've seen some damage from past incidents, some that can't be talked about, but this is some of the worst I've in 20 yrs involvment in subs as active duty, and civilian contracting.
Commander Mooney and crew have my deepest respect, and admaration for being able to bring the Boat home after this accident!
137 posted on 01/27/2005 1:51:11 PM PST by Bottom_Gun (Crush depth dummy)
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To: Boot Hill

I wasn't like that and kept all my transgressions from coming to mom and dad's attention. Besides I enjoyed being a star in school and never gave them cause to complain about that.

My younger boy was not like that either though he also hated school he got good grades. Arlen went to a public school and Keegan to a private one but both hated them.


138 posted on 01/27/2005 1:51:46 PM PST by justshutupandtakeit (Public Enemy #1, the RATmedia.)
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To: GarySpFc; Boot Hill; MEG33
Thanks for the link:

The Kursk was raised by the Dutch company "Mammoet" in autumn 2001 and transported to a military shipyard No 82 in Roslyakovo. Investigation teams worked on the submarine for almost half a year.
Aleksandr Raube

139 posted on 01/27/2005 1:51:58 PM PST by Ernest_at_the_Beach (A Proud member of Free Republic ~~The New Face of the Fourth Estate since 1996.)
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To: IMRight
You mean apart from running it aground I assume? :-)

If he was on the transit course (position and speed) per orders, he has no fault.

140 posted on 01/27/2005 1:52:49 PM PST by WildTurkey (When will CBS Retract and Apologize?)
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To: Redcloak
"The pressure hull looks to be in fair shape."

Just curious, how can you tell?

--Boot Hill

141 posted on 01/27/2005 1:53:05 PM PST by Boot Hill (How do you verbalize a noun?)
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To: WildTurkey
Just because the reactor "stuff" is in the back, does not mean that there was no damage. A lot of thought and examination will have to be done before this baby can be considered salvageable.

That's basically it. I haven't done any DC work (other than the basic training everyone gets), but sometimes you'd be surprised at how a problem that LOOKS big turns out to be something you can work with and how sometimes problems you'd hardly notice turn out to be irreparable.

No question though that there's a lot of expensive "stuff" forward of that "total loss" line (much of it sitting under that blue roofers tarp).

142 posted on 01/27/2005 1:53:39 PM PST by IMRight ("Eye" See BS)
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To: RightWhale

Better call Geico!


143 posted on 01/27/2005 1:53:44 PM PST by IGOTMINE (Please arm yourself.)
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To: Boot Hill

That is jaw-droppingly stunning.

Thanks for posting those.


144 posted on 01/27/2005 1:54:14 PM PST by Selkie (You can argue 'til you're blue in the face, but I'll always be right.)
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To: steve in DC; RightWhale
Also, if you load the high res version (pic 1); if you look back towards the middle (maybe a little aft of the middle) of the sail just under the walkway, you'll see what appears to be a slight bulge there too.
145 posted on 01/27/2005 1:54:16 PM PST by AFreeBird (your mileage may vary)
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To: Servant of the 9

Not to mention the electrical and electronic components - particularly the reactor safety systems.


146 posted on 01/27/2005 1:54:39 PM PST by WildTurkey (When will CBS Retract and Apologize?)
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To: RightWhale

Nope. The Navy will send up to the boatyard and fix her right up. And it will not take as long as you would think. This is all with the caveat that the subs mission is still considered worthy and we don't already have its successor on the board.


147 posted on 01/27/2005 1:54:53 PM PST by ping jockey (We must not let Dan Blather off the hook.NEVER FORGET)
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To: judicial meanz

See #139 for even worse damage....totally opened up...


148 posted on 01/27/2005 1:54:58 PM PST by Ernest_at_the_Beach (A Proud member of Free Republic ~~The New Face of the Fourth Estate since 1996.)
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To: Blueflag

I'm thinking the same.

Under water mountain ramming is not a MILSPEC I imagine. The fact this thing survived is a testament to its construction.

How deep was it when this happened?

Red6


149 posted on 01/27/2005 1:55:48 PM PST by Red6
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To: Boot Hill

It got a few dimples.


150 posted on 01/27/2005 1:56:42 PM PST by MissAmericanPie
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