Vatican courses on Satanism

***I'm quite confidant that my views and yours are not mutually irreconcilable.***

Quite possible.

***When asked what the two greatest commandments were, Christ said the first was to love the Lord thy God - not to fear Him.***

Very true. And the teaching on the two greatest commandments, while expressing a summation of God's will, do not give us a full account of His will. Christ had many other things to say to us - one of which is...

"But I will warn you whom to fear: fear him who, after he has killed, has authority to cast into hell. Yes, I tell you, fear him!"

And he was quite clearly talking about God here.

I am afraid our modern concept of "love" is far removed from the idea of love as expressed inthe Bible. Today love is a feeling, a positive emotional attachment. In Jesus day "love" carried more meaning.

For example, Jesus said,

"If you love me, you will keep my commandments."
- John 14:15

And John said,

For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments. And his commandments are not burdensome.
- 1 John 5:3

In the Bible, love and fear are not mutually exclusive. Rather, they are complementary. Godly fear is not a craven sort of emotion, but something which, inspired by the awesome power and holiness of God, which leads us to righteous living. In the Scriptures, every human who ever saw God (in one form or another) experienced extreme fear. Even John in the Book of Revelation said when seeing the glorified Christ that, "And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead."

We must let the Bible reveal to us who God actually is, and worship Him for who He has revealed Hiself to be and not what our modern sensibilities would guide us to believe of Him.

Many today view God almost like a buddy, (and little more). While it is true that He is, "a friend who sticks closer than a brother" that does not represent the entire breadth of revelation of Him who holds the very stars in His hand.

If you are interested, please check out the following survey of verses regarding God and fear...

http://bible.crosswalk.com/Concordances/TorreysTopicalTextbook/ttt.cgi?number=T200

1) Catholics don't WORSHIP Mary - they venerate her.

Ahhh, now we're playing with semantics I see. My thesaurus provides the following words for 'venerate':

accord respect to, admire, adore, apotheosize, appreciate, defer to, deify, do homage to, do service, entertain respect for, esteem, exalt, favor, hallow, hero-worship, hold in esteem, hold in reverence, honor, idolize, look up to, pay homage to, prize, regard, respect, revere, reverence, think highly of, think much of, think well of, value, worship [oops!]

2) If God selected her for His mother, He obviously thought highly of her and would hardly disapprove of respect and veneration accorded her.

See above. And I hasten to remind you that Jesus rebuked his own mother, and nowhere in Scripture are Christians directed to 'venerate' (i.e. 'worship') Mary or any other person EXCEPT for God Almighty in the Person of Jesus Christ, God's Manifestation in the flesh.

3) The easiest way to anger ANYBODY is to insult or neglect their mother.

No insult or neglect is committed when pointing out that Mary is no better and no worse than any other sinner whose sins were washed away by the Blood of Christ.

Nuff said.

Indeed. Put down that shovel and stop digging.

1) I think this is in part a semantic issue. There are a host of refinements of the term "veneration" which you listed. I think the "admire, appreciate, respect, honor, revere," are far closer to the meaning of the term as employed by Catholics. As a former Catholic, I assure you, Catholic dogma does NOT call for the worship of Mary -that is a Medieval Protestant misrepresentation. And I find it impossible to believe that anyone who worships Christ cannot feel those sentiments for the woman who was chosen to bear Him, and the suffereings she must have experienced as a result of His life and death. Simple humanity, if not religion, would surely evoke those sentiments.

Catholics, unlike many or most Protestants, believe that in addition to praying to God directly, you can pray to saints to "interceed" for you with Him. Many Protestants of course, believe in praying directly to God Himself. I find no problem with either approach, as long as prayers to Saints are not carried to the level of worship, through ignorance, which can and does occur. Obviously only God is worthy of worship.

2) "And I hasten to remind you that Jesus rebuked his own mother, and nowhere in Scripture are Christians directed to 'venerate'"

Christ rebuked a lot of people in His lifetime. And one of His last acts on earth before He died was to commend His mother to the care of one of apostles. I think that says a lot about how He felt about Her, especially considering the pain He was under at the time. Nowhere in the Scriptures are people not directed to venerate Christ's mother, nor is the subject of intercession through the agency of Saints and Angels forbidden.

3) "No insult or neglect is committed when pointing out that Mary is no better and no worse than any other sinner.."

I find it difficult to accept that is the case. She was chosen by God to be His mother. He must have had a reason for selecting her personally, and the fact that her body contained within it the living God should accord her a degree os awe and respect which sets her off from the average run of mortals. I could also say the same thing about all the martyrs and witnesses to the Word who died horrible deaths after much sufferings, for their faith. We are fortunate to live in a country where freedom is prised and the cost of religious conviction is relatively cheap.

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