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Is Yahweh punishing the enemies of Israel with natural disasters?

Posted on 02/01/2005 5:38:05 AM PST by BlackJack

I was lying in bed thinking about articles I had read concerning the recent tsunami in the Indian Ocean. I remembered reading that a village of thousands of Hindus that should have been wiped out was spared because a village elder had instructed years ago that hundreds of trees had to be planted along the coast for religious reasons. Those trees miraculously spared the village and not one Hindu was drowned. Not one. Spooky.

Then I remembered an article that there were no dead or drowned animals.Not one carcass was found apparently. Spooky.

Also no aboriginal people were drowned, not one. Spooky again.

I follow the energy sector and I am aware that Aceh has one of the world's largest natural gas exporting terminals. I was waiting to hear about how much the terminal was damaged and wondered how that might affect the world natural gas supply. The terminal exports natural gas to mainly non-muslim nations and it was not damaged. I was very surprised because Aceh took a direct hit.

All over Aceh thousands of muslims drowned. Boats were piled on top of each other miles inland. How could the terminal suffer NO DAMAGE? It just seemed weird to me.

I haven't read any analysis along these lines but it seems to me this tsunami for some strange reason drowned mostly muslims and foreign tourists in muslim communities. Weird.

Then I thought to myself, why was this tsunami, of biblical proportions (affecting the rotation of the earth)-why was it affecting mostly muslim peoples?

Indonesia is home to radical muslim groups against Israel, US and Australia.Could it be a punishment from Yahweh? Nah, its just a coincidence. Has to be.

Then I said to myself, has there been any other natural disasters sent against those opposed to Israel?

Then I recalled the recent Bam earthquake. It killed 50,000 muslims. It flattened Bam Iran. Weird.

Iran supports hezbullah. hmmmm

Then I remembered not to long ago a plague of locusts hit muslim countries in North Africa. Israel was not damaged as I recall. Weird again.

I don't believe in biblical prophesy. I don't believe in miracles. I am not jewish or Israeli. But I do follow history and let the facts take me where they will.

So I thought to myself again. Yahweh says that he will gather the jewish people and rebuilt his nation and the temple, for this must be done before the messiah can come. So is there anything since Israel was born again in 1948 that would lead one to believe that there is anything to this??? hmmm

Lets see. After WWII the Soviet Union was an ally of Israel and communism was on a roll. Then in the 1960's the Soviets stab Israel in the back and switch sides for geopolitical reasons. A billion muslims, hundreds of millions of arabs and all that oil. The Soviets build the Aswan dam for Egypt and give Sadat billions in military equipment. Sadat attacks Israel with thousands of Soviet advisors and gets crushed. Sadat gets assassinated. The Soviet Union goes into decline and soon disappears from history.

Sadam in Iraq then gets into the act. He has thousands of Soviet advisors in country when he invades Iran and later Kuwait. During the Gulf War he fires scuds at Israel and gets crushed. His people suffer terribly. George Bush senior helps Israel with Patriot missiles, wins the war and shoots up to an incredible 92% approval rating. Highest approval rating on record. He is on such a political roll the top Democrats won't run against him.

Then Bush senior puts pressure on Israel and Shamir to give up the west bank.This is part of ancient Israel and Yahweh is not happy apparently. The economy goes into a tailspin and a few months later, amazingly, Bush loses the election!

Then Rabin, who agreed to give up west bank land, gets assassinated. The Palestinians who are constantly fighting Israel suffer terribly during this entire post war period and Arafat, after never ending defeats, dies of a mysterious ailment.

If you look at the last 50 years, every political leader, every nation that has gone against Israel has been crushed. The arabs have not only lost every war, they have suffered terribly. Shia killing Sunni and vice versa from Iraq to Pakistan. And Israel is such a tiny country you can see the Mediterranean from the Golan. And it has no natural resources. It is surrounded by hundreds of millions of arabs and yet it prospers. Amazing.

Clinton was a supporter of Israel and even though he goes from one scandal to another for eight years, he comes through unscathed. Bush junior who unlike his father, does not pressure Israel to give up the west bank, also wins two terms even though the world media calls him an idiot, and the deficit is out of site. Bush junior has a huge budget deficit, trade deficit and yet the dollar does not collapse and the economy seems to be doing well. He wins reelection even though there are NO weapons of mass destruction found.

Again, its amazing really.

I could go on but I better bring this to a conclusion. Think of all the nations that have gone against Israel and been defeated. Any gentile or jew who does not support Israel goes down. Think of the raid on Entebbe or the destruction of the Osiris reactor. Think of the long odds against Israeli survival and yet Israel prospers. Some might say, well its just the powerful Israeli lobby working its magic behind the scenes.

But what about earthquakes and tsunamis?

I think its a bit spooky myself. Like I said I'm not a believer in the ancient books and prophesies but it seems like there might be something to this after all.

What the heck is going on???

I'm beginning to think the Temple will be rebuilt.

I certainly would not go against Israel, thats for sure.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Foreign Affairs; Israel; News/Current Events; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: wrongforum

1 posted on 02/01/2005 5:38:06 AM PST by BlackJack
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To: BlackJack
God Fails to Break His Own Record for Killing


2 posted on 02/01/2005 5:42:42 AM PST by peyton randolph (CAIR supports TROP terrorists)
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To: BlackJack
I was lying in bed thinking about articles I had read concerning the recent tsunami in the Indian Ocean. I remembered reading that a village of thousands of Hindus that should have been wiped out was spared because a village elder had instructed years ago that hundreds of trees had to be planted along the coast for religious reasons. Those trees miraculously spared the village and not one Hindu was drowned. Not one. Spooky.

Thousands of Hindus...and Christians...were drowned elsewhere however.

Also no aboriginal people were drowned, not one. Spooky again.

This is likely false. For one thing there really isn't an accurate census of the Andamanese tribesmen.

Another thing to note is Bangladesh is one of the most populous Muslim countries in the world, and it was essentially unaffected by the Tsunami.

Hurricane Mitch killed 10,000 people in Central America, a region devoid of Muslims.

3 posted on 02/01/2005 5:44:45 AM PST by Strategerist
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To: BlackJack

Take a nap, get some fresh air, read a book, cook something, just stop trying to think.


4 posted on 02/01/2005 5:45:25 AM PST by wtc911 ("I would like at least to know his name.")
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To: BlackJack

Sri Lanka was heavily hit by the tsunami, yet its populace is either Buddhist or Hindu, not Muslim.

Sorry, you're going to have to go back to the drawing board.

Regards, Ivan


5 posted on 02/01/2005 5:46:05 AM PST by MadIvan (Gothic. Freaky. Conservative. - http://www.rightgoths.com/)
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To: BlackJack

LOL The answer is no. The question is stupid.


6 posted on 02/01/2005 5:48:50 AM PST by pnome
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To: pnome

"There are no stupid questions, just stupid people." - Mr. Garrison


7 posted on 02/01/2005 5:52:01 AM PST by orionblamblam
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To: BlackJack
"Indonesia is home to radical muslim groups against Israel, US and Australia.Could it be a punishment from Yahweh? Nah, its just a coincidence. Has to be."

If you don't read the scriptures, nor believe in prophecy, then how did you know to include the Aussies, mate, in your wonderings? A "cowinkidink?"

To answer your question about Yahwheh, just ask Him! He's very loquacious and glib when He find an actual listener... .

8 posted on 02/01/2005 5:52:53 AM PST by Ff--150 (It Works!)
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To: wtc911

LOLOL, your #4 said it best!


9 posted on 02/01/2005 6:05:20 AM PST by OldFriend (America's glory is not dominion, but liberty.)
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To: BlackJack
Not according to Jesus, if he counts for anything:

"But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous." (Matthew 5:44-45...emphasis added)

He also once told those wondering about another horrible events...

Now there were some present at that time who told Jesus about the Galileans whose blood Pilate had mixed with their sacrifices.

Jesus answered, “Do you think that these Galileans were worse sinners than all the other Galileans because they suffered this way? I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish. Or those eighteen who died when the tower in Siloam fell on them - do you think they were more guilty than all the others living in Jerusalem? I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish.” (Luke 13:1-5)

10 posted on 02/01/2005 6:08:37 AM PST by SoFloFreeper
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To: BlackJack

Seems to me that a lot of the "facts" that you "recall" about this horrific disaster are, well, let's just say "less than fully true."

Yes, that DOES have an impact on your conclusions.


11 posted on 02/01/2005 6:14:38 AM PST by Redbob
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To: BlackJack
Its possible.
During the mid-1930's when Hitler's murderous plans were still in the future, Huey Long predicted that the man (and Germany as well) would come to a bad end.
Long concluded from a study of history that nations that oppressed the Jews - he cited ancient Egypt, medieval Spain, and Czarist Russia - declined and never recovered their greatness.
I don't agree with 99% of Huey Long's ideas or opinions, but this one has a ring of truth about it.
12 posted on 02/01/2005 6:26:17 AM PST by quadrant
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To: Redbob

The skewed facts in this post do discredit the fact that Israel and Israelites did amazingly outlive all of its detractors and oppressors (the Ancient Egyptians, the Assyrians, the Greeks, the Romans, the Nazi Germany, the Soviet Union) and defeated the Arabs in 5 wars and 2 "intifadahs". At a cost, though. And the countries that support Israel, like the US, do prosper. And it's Yehovah, not Yahwe (althogh you are not supposed to call His Name in vain). Thanx.


13 posted on 02/01/2005 6:31:00 AM PST by Mi-kha-el ((There is no Pravda in Izvestiya and no Izvestiya in Pravda.))
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To: quadrant

Yes, I forgot the Zarist Russia, the Medieval Spain and the Arab Khaliphate, and the Ottoman Empire. Amazing, ain't it?


14 posted on 02/01/2005 6:37:04 AM PST by Mi-kha-el ((There is no Pravda in Izvestiya and no Izvestiya in Pravda.))
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To: Mi-kha-el
Yes, I forgot the Zarist Russia, the Medieval Spain and the Arab Khaliphate, and the Ottoman Empire. Amazing, ain't it?

What's amazing? Yes, medieval Spain is no more. But neither is any other medieval nation. Nothing lasts forever, good or bad.

15 posted on 02/01/2005 6:43:39 AM PST by Commie Basher
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To: BlackJack
I would have to say that you have a strong point. Your premise that anyone who stands against Israel is crushed shortly afterwards is very compelling. The reason why, is that this very idea is Biblical. Genesis 12:3 reads, “I will bless those who bless you, and the one who curses you I will curse; and in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed.”

Sadly, according to Zechariah 12:1-5, all nations, including America, will eventually turn against Israel and invite the redemptive judgement of God. It reads,
1)"This is the word of the LORD concerning Israel. The LORD , who stretches out the heavens, who lays the foundation of the earth, and who forms the spirit of man within him, declares:
2)"I am going to make Jerusalem a cup that sends all the surrounding peoples reeling. Judah will be besieged as well as Jerusalem.
3) On that day, when all the nations of the earth are gathered against her, I will make Jerusalem an immovable rock for all the nations. All who try to move it will injure themselves.
4) On that day I will strike every horse with panic and its rider with madness," declares the LORD . "I will keep a watchful eye over the house of Judah, but I will blind all the horses of the nations.
5) Then the leaders of Judah will say in their hearts, 'The people of Jerusalem are strong, because the LORD Almighty is their God.'"

You mentioned that you don't believe in Bible Prophecy, yet you have been able to point out many different instances in which prophecy has come true. When you have a free moment, I would recommend you go to www.HalLindsey.com. He currently has an article posted entitled, "Assessing Current Events" that you will find very interesting.

If you have any other questions, please feel free to contact me at farmboyinthesticks@yahoo.com.
16 posted on 02/01/2005 6:44:32 AM PST by rohtol
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To: BlackJack
Is Yahweh punishing the enemies of Israel with natural disasters?

No. As Jesus said, "Or those eighteen, upon whom the tower in Siloam fell, and slew them, think ye that they were sinners above all men that dwelt in Jerusalem? I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish."

Everyone's in the same position.
17 posted on 02/01/2005 6:47:30 AM PST by aruanan
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To: rohtol
I would recommend you go to www.HalLindsey.com

Especially if one is interested in hilarious idiots and liars.

18 posted on 02/01/2005 6:53:19 AM PST by Strategerist
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To: aruanan
Is Yahweh punishing the enemies of Israel with natural disasters?

Remember the 10 plagues in Egypt?

Although GOD is very compassionate and patient with people, His wrath has not gone unseen in the events of human history. You quote Jesus speaking of a tower falling on eighteen people. In cases such as those, accidents do happen. However, we are talking about calamities on such a scale that are out of the hands of human beings.
19 posted on 02/01/2005 6:55:10 AM PST by rohtol
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To: Strategerist
I would recommend you go to www.HalLindsey.com
Especially if one is interested in hilarious idiots and liars.


Me thinks thou dost protest too much... but since you brought it up, what examples do you have of Hal Lindsey being a "hilarious idiot and liar" ?
20 posted on 02/01/2005 6:58:16 AM PST by rohtol
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To: BlackJack

" Yahweh says that he will gather the jewish people and rebuilt his nation and the temple, for this must be done before the messiah can come."


Actually this is not correct. The full gathering of the two houses of Israel does not happen until after the real Christ returns. The fake pretend want-a-be christ comes first.


21 posted on 02/01/2005 6:58:36 AM PST by Just mythoughts
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To: BlackJack
"I haven't read any analysis along these lines but it seems to me this tsunami for some strange reason drowned mostly muslims and foreign tourists in muslim communities. Weird."

Most of the tourists were drowned in Thailand on the Island of Phuket. It isn't a Muslim community. Many of your other observations are also incorrect. I think you are reaching.
22 posted on 02/01/2005 6:58:52 AM PST by monday
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To: BlackJack

23 posted on 02/01/2005 6:59:14 AM PST by evets (God bless president George W. Bush)
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To: peyton randolph
" God Fails to Break His Own Record for Killing"

Not to support BlackJack's thesis, but Those who "blame God" usually do so from a restricted perspective. if the business about God and eternal life is accurate, then it would be difficult for us to say that God, in his wisdom, has made a mistake by moving those in the tsunami into their next phase. For all you know, it is we who have been left behind that are being "cheated."

All we know from the Scriptures is that we are called upon to do justice and love mercy, and we have to do that from where we are, and what we perceive.

24 posted on 02/01/2005 7:01:20 AM PST by cookcounty (Army Vet, Army Dad.)
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To: cookcounty

It linked to a satire article poking fun of those who 'blame' God for death, destruction, and mayhem.


25 posted on 02/01/2005 7:02:57 AM PST by peyton randolph (CAIR supports TROP terrorists)
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To: rohtol

Umm...that every prediction in "The Late Great Planet Earth" failed miserably?


Actually, he's only an idiot if he's sincere. Given the money he's made selling books to the stupid and gullible, he may be a genius.

Read the reviews of the book on Amazon......


http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/031027771X/002-9889005-7070429


26 posted on 02/01/2005 7:03:11 AM PST by Strategerist
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To: rohtol

"Genesis 12:3 reads, “I will bless those who bless you, and the one who curses you I will curse; and in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed.”"

Some people have made a whole religion out of this verse. Read the rest of the story. There are 10 Tribes out there that have been scattered to the four corners of the earth that do not have a clue who they are.

By the way Abraham was also told that his seed would number the sands of the sea and the stars of heaven.


27 posted on 02/01/2005 7:03:54 AM PST by Just mythoughts
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To: quadrant

I have my own theory on why the enemies of the Jews all went into decline and it stands regardless of one's religious beliefs. The Jews have prospered for millenia because the values they hold- respect for life, justice, property and personal responsibility- are values that make a culture strong. The OT is quite clear on what happens to the Israelites when they ignore those values. Because the enemies of the Jews reject the values that give them strength, it should come as no surprise that they all fail.


28 posted on 02/01/2005 7:05:39 AM PST by Squawk 8888 (With enemies like Michael Moore, who needs friends?)
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To: Commie Basher

You pick out Spain out of the entire context. OK, stay unamazed. I am.


29 posted on 02/01/2005 7:20:18 AM PST by Mi-kha-el ((There is no Pravda in Izvestiya and no Izvestiya in Pravda.))
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To: BlackJack

I find its best (and definitely more humble) not to consider whether or not God is visiting his wrath on anyone unless I have been beset myself. Then, in my strange little world, and only then is it appropriate for me to say, "Hmmm, I wonder if God is upset with me..." Even then, I try not to approach it as a victim, but as one who must reconsider my recent actions to see if there is cause to change my ways. Any other projection risks the fate of a prophet.


30 posted on 02/01/2005 7:31:21 AM PST by SlowBoat407 (My tagline knows what you're thinking... you beast!)
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To: BlackJack

It seems to me that the God of the Bible always sent prophets to warn of coming judgment. He gave people an opportunity to repent before He intervened. I suppose that the Bible itself serves as such a warning against taking sides against Israel.

But one must keep in mind that calamities do happen to the innocent, and injustice does exist, so natural disasters (or even unnatural ones like 9/11) should not be attributed to divine judgment AUTOMATICALLY.

Nevertheless, this is a good question to ask.


31 posted on 02/01/2005 7:37:13 AM PST by unlearner
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To: BlackJack
>I was lying in bed thinking about articles I had read

Maybe you should try
reading something else before
getting your shut-eye . . .






32 posted on 02/01/2005 7:40:30 AM PST by theFIRMbss
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To: SlowBoat407

This is the best way to approach it. However, the BlackJack post can be treated in two ways, it's either the man was really astounded and shocked by the magnitude of the tragedy and is trying to find some explanation or it is a sheer provocation. But the response it provoked is quite encouraging. The deisaster, in my view, is nor of divine providense, but is totally man-made. You cannot prevent a phenomenon like that, but you can predict it and alert tje people. This is 21st century after all. Now the people screwed up real bad and G-d is taking the rap.


33 posted on 02/01/2005 7:42:13 AM PST by Mi-kha-el ((There is no Pravda in Izvestiya and no Izvestiya in Pravda.))
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To: BlackJack

u may get hit by a godphart urself!


34 posted on 02/01/2005 7:46:16 AM PST by ken21 (baba boxer + ted kennedy = nuf 2 make u wanna puke)
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To: BlackJack

BTTT


35 posted on 02/01/2005 7:49:09 AM PST by Fiddlstix (This Tagline for sale. (Presented by TagLines R US))
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To: Mi-kha-el

I'll agree with you on the condition that we stipulate "man-made" as meaning that people chose to build dwellings and resorts in areas subject to devastating natural forces without building adequate safeguards or warnings against the day when those forces would be unleashed.

I am so pompous today!


36 posted on 02/01/2005 7:54:08 AM PST by SlowBoat407 (My tagline knows what you're thinking... you beast!)
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To: BlackJack

You left something out. When Bush Sr. went to the meeting to discuss dividing Israel's land, he went by naval ship.

The ship was caught in a storm so bad that Bush Sr. couldn't disembark for three days, and his house in Maine was severly damaged by a hurricane at that same time.

I see God's hand in everything all through history to this day. "I will bless those that bless you, and curse those that curse you", was God's contract with Israel, and it is in effect to this day.

I remember what Ben Laden's cleric said to him on that tape after 9-11, "I was praying to Allah and asking him why we never have anything, when news of the Towers came over the radio and I rejoiced". These are arrogant men who feel "humiliated" because they are not running the world for Allah instead of looking around at why they don't deserve anything but what they are getting. What they are getting is a harder punch than they can throw from God himself.

When God signs a contract, He doesn't break it even if the other party does as happened with the jewish nation in the past. America will lose it's greatness if it begins to betray Israel. It does not matter if one likes Israel or not, it only matters that we heed the contract that God made with Israel.


37 posted on 02/01/2005 8:06:08 AM PST by MissAmericanPie
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To: SlowBoat407

Yes. But if those governments turned down the warning system, there should have been contingency plans on the part of the responsible people. Colin Powell said that the world weather service recorded the earthquaqe (9 magnitude, BTW!), didn't know who to call. What's up with that. Are they kindergarderners? Call any major radio or TV station, call CNN. Everybody receives CNN. Call local police station, anyone with a cell phone. A 5 minute prior warning for some people would be a matter of survival. And it took the wave almost 90 minutes to reach the coast of India. Even if one life had been saved that way, it would have been worth it. How come not a single person knew anything. It's too surrealistic.


38 posted on 02/01/2005 8:11:14 AM PST by Mi-kha-el ((There is no Pravda in Izvestiya and no Izvestiya in Pravda.))
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To: Mi-kha-el

Well put. No argument there.


39 posted on 02/01/2005 8:22:49 AM PST by SlowBoat407 (My tagline knows what you're thinking... you beast!)
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To: Commie Basher

England is still around, so is France, and so are Japan and China.
Its difficult to maintain independence for over 500 years but it is possible.


40 posted on 02/01/2005 10:27:13 AM PST by quadrant
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To: quadrant
England is still around, so is France, and so are Japan and China.

So is Spain.

IAE, France has long been charged with anti-Semitism, and England expelled its Jews shortly before the rise of its empire. So what does that prove?

41 posted on 02/02/2005 12:03:30 AM PST by Commie Basher
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To: Commie Basher
So is Germany and Egypt, but neither has nor is likely to ascend to the power its once enjoyed.

The Jews were expelled from England during the Middle Ages but were readmitted during the "reign" of Oliver Cromwell.
Technically speaking, England was not an Empire until Queen Victoria became Empress of India and ceased to be an empire when India became an independent country.

There is a long and shameful history of anti-Semitism in France - during the 1930's "Better Adolph Hitler than Leon Blum" was a public sentiment - however anti-semitism was not widespread or virulent in France until the Dreyfus Affair.

None of these examples "prove" anything, since historical proof is a difficult and often illusionary undertaking.
My remarks were simply an observation that widespread and severe persecution of the Jews and a decline of national power are events that can be observed in ancient Egypt, Tsarist Russia, Imperial Spain, and Nazi Germany. .
My remarks were not intended to "prove" that anti-semitism caused the decline of these countries since anti-semitism, especially social anti-semitism, is not necessarily persecution.
42 posted on 02/02/2005 7:13:41 AM PST by quadrant
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To: dervish

ping


43 posted on 05/18/2005 5:13:02 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (FR profiled updated Tuesday, May 10, 2005. Fewer graphics, faster loading.)
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