Skip to comments.Atheist group may bid for plot of courthouse lawn
Posted on 02/01/2005 8:39:16 AM PST by w6ai5q37b
Businessman wants site for Ten Commandments monument.
CRAWFORDSVILLE, Ind. (AP) -- A man who says he represents an atheist group is planning to bid for a small plot of the county courthouse lawn that a businessman has said he wants to buy as the site for a Ten Commandments monument.
Earl Myler, who heads a company that designs and builds churches, has proposed to Montgomery County commissioners a plan to buy the property in order to return a Ten Commandments monument to the lawn, where a previous monument was removed in 2001.
Ken Lewis said his atheist group would bid against Myler's company if the commissioners endorsed Myler's proposal.
The process should be legal to permit the commandments monument, Myler company officials said, because freedom of speech can be exercised on private property.
Several county officials received an e-mail last week from Lewis, who wrote that his group wanted to erect a monument reading "Freedom from Religion."
Lewis told the Crawfordsville Journal-Review that an anonymous benefactor has pledged money to outbid Myler if the commissioners decide to put the land up for sale.
Lewis said he lives in Colorado and that he learned about the proposal from news reports. He said the group was interested in opposing Myler "because we strongly believe in the separation of church and state."
Myler said he expected a bid for the property from an atheist organization.
"The people in the Myler organization believe that Christians in Montgomery County and across the country will join us in raising enough money to assert our Christian rights to display the Ten Commandments on a lawn that we as taxpayers pay for anyway," Myler said.
A Ten Commandments monument stood on the courthouse lawn in the city about 40 miles northwest of Indianapolis from 1958 until 2001, when the Indiana Civil Liberties Union went to court to have it removed.
The commissioners, acting on the advice of the county attorney, decided not to fight the action and had the monument removed.
If people would interpret and apply laws properly folks wouldn't be tempted to BUY their way out of what they are allowed to do legally.
How's Lewis going to outbid him unless somebody tell him what Myers bid is? Wouldn't that be bid rigging?
"Freedom from Religion."
Isn't that a little like saying "Thou shalt have no religion"?
That's what I'm wondering. Maybe the city could turn this into a cash cow...put up for sale small, useless plots of land and claim that "religious groups" want it to display some religious icon. Then start a bidding war between the atheists and a mysterious "religious group".
> Isn't that a little like saying "Thou shalt have no religion"?
No. It's more like: "Thou shalt have no religion that thou does not want." Who could rationally argue agaisnt that?
> Then start a bidding war between the atheists and a mysterious "religious group".
And then arrest on fraud charges those city employees behind the false claims and/or phony bids of the "religious groups!" Genius! Then the atheists can sue and recieve that land and more as part of the punitive damages.
Hmmmm. Let the speculation begin. This smells like the George Soros/Peter Lewis gang to me. But I wouldn't bet against one of the Hollyweird scumbags who helped Kerry, either. Would it be a public auction, like they do for bank sales and various other liquidations?
Don't forget to shoot the entire city council and burn the entire town down.
How about "Freedom from some speech"?
Isn't that a little like saying "Thou shalt have no religion"?
Yes, it is. There is no such thing as freedom from religion. Unless of course it is commanded that there will be no religion (that is except for the religion of "no-religion").
You can't guarantee the right to freedom of religion and then tell everyone they have to shut up about it!
Now, this buying private property adjacent to public property... I don't know about that. The Ten Commandments have a value beyond the Judeo-Christian religion and are indeed one of the basics of our law. The Ten Commandments probably should be on the public property. The Commandments presense does not violate anyone's rights.
my two cents,
> burn the entire town down
Auto-de-feys aren't my schtick. I leave that to the Inquisitors out lookign for heretics and atheists.
Interesting that opposition to the use of fraud is met with hostility by some...
The ACLU foundation has $133 Million in assets, much of it taxpayer money. I contend that a bidding war would not be the best use of resources at the moment. That would be possibly winning a low-priority battle but losing the WAR. Remember, what is legislated can be (although seldom is) de-legislated.
The good news is that there is much, MUCH going on to thwart the militant atheists....and other things to come soon.
First link below--check out ACLU, People for The American Way and Americans for Separation of Church and State for starters...this is not a cash battle, it is a battle against the "evil devices" of evildoers
Second link below--check out the search for 'devices' and you see WHY the Left MUST have prayer out of schools and government for them to stay in power!
> I'm gonna have to start using 'smiley faces'
Perhaps so. Whenever discussions around here mention atheists, the hatred comes out in force.
Your vindictiveness is showing, Mr. Lewis.
> The good news is that there is much, MUCH going on to thwart the militant atheists....
That's fine. Militancy in such matters is not good. But what is being done to thwart the militant theists?
Ben Franklin was a Deist-but even he praised the fact that
in America one rarely came across an atheist.Ben Franklin
praised the fact that our country was one of piety ,and
christian morality.Even Old Ben Franklin would despise those who believe in separation from religion.
Well, Mike Newdow has a plan...so did Karl Marx
Here are some outstanding organizations, for starters....
That's funny; it's the other way around at DU.
The ACLU was founded on January 12, 1920. Among its founders were William Z. Foster, Elizabeth Gurley Flynn and Louis F. Budenz. All three later became prominent leaders of the Communist Party, USA, although Budenz broke with the Party in 1945 and became a militant anti-Communist.
In 1976, Congress passed the Civil Rights Attorneys Fee Awards Act, which was designed to encourage private lawyers to take on suits to protect civil and constitutional rights. The law provides that judges can order federal and state governments to pay legal fees to private lawyers who sued the government and won. The result has been a flood of civil rights cases in federal court. From The New American Feb. 2, 1987
It's an outrage that US law, passed during the Watergate era, allows the ACLU to collect attorney's fees for makework----Christian-hatng lawsuits it itself launches.
That means "values voters" have been footing the bill for the ACLU's launching a juggernaut to remove Ten Commandments images, Christmas creches and Christmas carols, taking God out of the Pledge of Allegiance, and because they claim they have a civil right not to see the Ten Commandments, a civil right not to hear the word God in the Pledge of Allegiance, not to see a creche of the Baby Jesus, not to hear Christmas carols. The ACLU has collected a huge amount of our tax dollars in this left-handed fundraiser for the ACLU.
FReepers can silence the ACLU with a bit of activism. We need to insist our Congressmen repeal this abusive law that allows the ACLU to get rich on harassing Christian America. Congress must repeal laws enabling the ACLU's Christian-hating activities. Cut off the ACLU's funds and watch them disappear. Here's what we can do.
The IRS should determine whether the ACLU is properly accounting for all its tax-funded activities, whether it is inflating legal costs, and whether it is using tax dollars for the purposes stated. We need to know whether the ACLU is engaged in Enron-style accounting and spending practices.
REFERENCE SOURCE FOR ARGUING REPEAL TO CONGRESS
Apparently, when Congress contemplated the fee-shifting bill three decades ago, it never conceived that 42 U.S.C. §1988 would be used to secure fees in esoteric battles over the meaning of the establishment clause of the First Amendment.
The statute gives a court "discretion" to award attorneys' fees to the prevailing party in civil rights cases.
Study of the legislative history of the statute reveals that Congress intended this statute to apply to civil rights abuses, including certain race and sex discrimination cases, but not to arguments about whether Judge Roy Moore is allowed to display the Ten Commandments in the Alabama courthouse.
During the deliberations on the bill, the Senate penned that "in many cases arising under our civil rights laws, the citizen who must sue to enforce the law has little or no money with which to hire a lawyer." In the recent First Amendment lawsuits filed by the ACLU, the tables are turned.
Small school districts and municipalities can either defend lawsuits and risk paying the ACLU's attorneys' fees if they lose, or they can voluntarily submit to the ACLU's view of the Constitution.
Even if lawsuits over the establishment clause somehow fall within 42 U.S.C. §1988, the statute empowers courts with nothing more than "discretion" to award fees.
In these cases, one would expect courts to withhold awarding fees. Since this is not happening, Congress must take immediate action to clarify 42 U.S.C. §1988 to explicitly exclude lawsuits related to the acknowledgement of God.
Ping! and thanks for the ping Liz
Alliance Defense Fund (ADF) - http://www.alliancedefensefund.org
Thomas More Law Center (TMLC) - http://www.thomasmore.org
American Center for Law and Justice (ACLJ) - http://www.aclj.org
The Rutherford Institute - http://www.rutherford.org/
Stop the ACLU Coalition (GREATLY ORGANIZED ACTIVIST SITE..PLEASE JOIN) - http://www.stoptheaclu.org
Here are a few examples of how two of those organizations are fighting back:
Thomas More Law Center: Town of Palm Beach Pays $50,000 In Attorney Fees Apologizes To Women In Nativity Lawsuit
"I seek social ownership of property, the abolition of the propertied class, and sole control of those who produced the wealth: communism is the goal." - Roger Baldwin, ACLU founder, Harvard Reunion Book, 1935
"The establishment of an American Soviet government will involve the confiscation of large landed estates in town and country, and also, the whole body to forests, mineral deposits, lakes, rivers and so on." - William Z. Foster, ACLU co-founder and former chairman, Communist Party USA.
Let me know if you would like to join my ACLU ping list
Why Display the
1. Your life will be lengthened.
2. Your children's lives will be lengthened.
3. So your home life will be "as the days of heaven upon the earth" (Deuteronomy 11:21).
18. Therefore shall ye lay up these my words in your heart and in your soul, and bind them for a sign upon your hand, that they may be as frontlets between your eyes.
19. And ye shall teach them your children, speaking of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, when thou liest down, and when thou risest up.
20. And thou shalt write them upon the door posts of thine house, and upon thy gates:
21. That your days may be multiplied, and the days of your children, in the land which the LORD sware unto your fathers to give them, as the days of heaven upon the earth.
Displaying and obeying the Ten Commandments will bring blessings upon you and your family. Read these words from Deuteronomy 6:1, 2-3, 9.
1. Now these are the commandments . . .
2. That thou mightest fear the LORD thy God, to keep all his statutes and his commandments, which I command thee, thou, and thy son, and thy son's son, all the days of thy life; and that thy days may be prolonged.
3. Hear therefore, O Israel, and observe to do it; that it may be well with thee, and that ye may increase mightily, as the LORD God of thy fathers hath promised thee . . .
9. And thou shalt write them upon the posts of thy house, and on thy gates.
Start Christian Legal Aid Program in Your Area
That's funny. The only one I ever see putting out hatred on these sort of threads is you.
Are you "One Who Knows"
Advice to Mr. Myler: Put in a good-sized bid and let the atheists outbid him. Then the city can plant some shrubs in front and sell him a plot on the other side of the courthouse property.
> The only one I ever see putting out hatred on these sort of threads is you.
Uh-HUH. Gee, was I the one suggesting fraud?
This is the best in your face fundraising event the town could ever DREAm of. Don't seperate just one plot from the parcel, seperate 10 plots. Make the atheist group outbid the local businessman for each and every one of the ten plots. Then sue the atheist group for breach of contract when they can't find the funds to pay for their 2 to 9 parcels.
Two can play at this.
> Same anti-Christian bigotry
Please, point to some actual "anti Christian bigotry." Consider for a moment that "I disagree with you" is not the same as "anti" anything.
> Make the atheist group outbid the local businessman for each and every one of the ten plots.
What you're basically argueing for is selling off government land to private interests. If this is a good thing to do in this case, why not *every* case?
Why aren't you out advocating that local governments sell off all their land?
For local govs, just select parcels. For fedgov, almost all of it. (excludes military bases and buildings required for gov functions.)
I asked: "Please, point to some actual "anti Christian bigotry.""
You responded: "Your posts 6 and 7."
Well, now, lessee:
from 6: "Thou shalt have no religion that thou does not want."
Where's the anti-Christian biogoty there? Are you argueing that tellign people that they do not have to have a religion forced upon them is somehow bigotted?
From 7: "arrest on fraud charges those city employees behind the false claims ..."
Are you suggesting that it's *okay* for people to commit acts of fraud, so long as they do it in the name of Jesus and to harm atheists? That it's morally wrong to arrest, or suggest arresting, Christians who lie and break the law?
Now, I would like a rational response. Defend yourself here.
> For local govs, just select parcels.
Why just "select?" What need does your local courthouse have for *any* of the lawn out front? If they don't need it, they should sell it, either at a standard rate per parcel, or at open auction. Selling it secretly to *anyone* stinks of high corruption and should be avoided.
> For fedgov, almost all of it.
Concurred. I want me a few thousand acres of Alaska (w/mineral rights).
read the second half of post 38. I know how you think.
Depends if it serves the greater good (general welfare) of the people. Posting one of the founding documents of our western civilization promotes the general good far better than posting a monument to "freedom from religion" (which is NOT one of our founding beliefs nor is it enshrined in our founding documents)
As to why select. There is no Constitutional prohibition against local govs owning whatever land the citizens deem to sell them. There are prohibitions against the fedgov (which are unfortunately routinely violated)
> I know how you think.
OK.... so fraud is ok with you, so long as it's fraud on *your* side.