Skip to comments.Immigration Reform - So Few Words, So Much Meaning
Posted on 02/02/2005 11:06:49 PM PST by DoughtyOne
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I don't know where you got that. The arguments behind them were how much it cost to support a family. (not necessarily have two cars, a TV, air conditioner, computer, private schools, vacations, their own house,..) But regardless, any adult who can't keep a job paying more than $6.50 must be doing an entry level job? A person shouldn't expect to work as a grocery store checher for his entire life and be able to afford to buy a mansion in a gated community and drive Corvettes.
"If we want more workers, then we can come up with policies that encourages our own citizens to have more children. "
How does that help you? Same number of school children, same number of laborers "driving down wages", going to hospitals... The only difference I can see is that one baby may be named John and the other Juan.
" it's okay if we mastermind slums in vast regions of our nation"
That's a California problem because of your high real estate costs. Other states subsidize clean modest housing and enforce sanitation laws and criminal laws. Don't blame Bush for California's mismanagement.
"You can't advocate two million poor come here from every nation. That would bring about 300 million per year here."
Under a guest worker plan American employers bring in only the number that they need.
By the way. Since state and local law enforcement agencies can enforce immigration laws, and the CBP will train them for free, why do you ONLY blame President Bush for your problems? Why don't you blame your local mayor for not busting employers of illegals?
People who want to blame Bush for all of their local problems instead of the local politicians who could solve them, are just looking for reasons to blame Bush.
When Bush was done with his hyperbole on immigration, I cringed and cried out LIAR right in front of my kids. Liar and hypocrite.
Great post. Now bring on the BOT incoming.
Bayourod, your posts are some of the few I see on the forum, that go from one falsehood or flawed premise to another to another.
That first paragraph was so powerful, I'll just refrain from responding. It would be pointless. It didn't even make sense.
Your question about more children is likewise another waste of time. If you don't know the difference, then you're not qualified to participate in this discussion.
Then you're off to California and saying that it's isn't Bush's fault. Boy if that isn't your mantra. It isn't Bush's fault, and by God it sure as hell isn't tens of millions of illegal allien's fault either. Whose fault is it? Well it must be California's. California now sets national guidelines on immigration, healthcare mandates, education guidelines, and oh yess, that $3 billion dollar gene research program caused it all. LOL.
Let me see, you think ten thousand illegals making minimum wage would be an economic boon for any neighborhood. Okay, we've got that on the record. Only California's high realestate makes it impossible for illegals to house, feed, clothe, provide medical care and educate their children. Hmmm, shere genious.
"Other states subsidize..." Need I respond to this mindset.
Well because the United States Constitution says the President 'SHALL' protect the states from invasion. That's the main reason why I say that you don't respect the U.S. Constitution and the laws of our nation.
Oh now I get it. You think all local politicians are president. Oh okay. Thanks.
I'm not sure it's a good idea to show the kids our displeasure at this. Just make sure that they understand the concepts of God granted rights, the reasons for limited governance, and self-reliance. Teach them that, respect for religion, and the golden rule and they'll grow up to believe what you do no matter what.
Texas. Manufacturing sector, health care sector, education, law enforcement and oil patch. The children of immigrants are being educated as fast as we can to go into these professions.
"The flood of illegals has created a downward pressure upon wages in America. "
Which wages? Gardeners? Roofers? Car Washers? Immigrants coming here for minimum wage jobs don't drive down wages of anyone except people in those same minimum wage jobs, not doctors and lawyers.
"Illegal immigration is a cancer."
Meaningless bumper sticker slogan. They come because there is a demand for their labor and they provide essential services. Productive employees are a nation's greatest asset, not a cancer. That's unthinking babble.
"It undermines sovereignty of the nation. It undermines all efforts to secure ourselves from terrorists."
No it doesn't. That Buchanan/Tancredo fundraising nonsense. We've always had a large immigration population and our sovereignty hasn't been threatened by immigrants. Tsake a quick trip to your local veteran's cemetary and look at the names on the headstones and tell them they threatened our sovereignty. Next your going to say it causes global warming or some such nonsense.
"George Bush firmly believes poor people have a right to break the law to seek a better life. This is the rationale of a thief. "
Where have you been the last four years. Bush has proposed a guest worker program that would eliminate illegal labors. He has also increased border security. President Bush is not a thief.
" Bush's rationale, ... they want is a better life and we, the American people, OWE IT TO THEM. "
No, the rationale is that we need them and they need us. It's mutuality. Same theory as the drug trade, but different because these are good intentioned people engaged in beneficial activity.
President Bush is addressing the immigration situation in the most responsible way, just as he has all other issues.
The only opponents the Repubs have are the Dems and they are silent on this issue, or in the very least, agree with it...
A pretty good game Washington is playing...
If it's so obvious, apparent and simple why don't you just verbalize for everyone what the difference is between baby John and baby Juan?
Illegal immigrants make more than minimum wage because they perform more valuable jobs than taking orders at McDonalds. Laborers start at about $10 an hour here.
And yes, ten thousand employees making minimum wage mean several thousand managers, foremen, accountants, secretaries, salesmen and other support personnel are making far more than minimum wages, and the companies are paying taxes. Then you have the multiplier effect which means grocery stores, gas stations, Kmarts, dry cleaners, plumbers, doctors, car dealers, schools...
10,000 employees would support a town of probably 20,000.
What type occupation do you have that doesn't benefit from economic activity? And why do you want the rest of us to suffer from closing businesses?
Could be that John is the only American in the bunch...Nice try...When nothing else works, try a little racism...
Texas is 40% Hispanic and was just rated the best state for businesses to open or relocate to, in part because of our labor force.
You said it...We all know that...Business loves that cheap labor...But you don't seem to notice that the illegals down in Texas seriously undercut the earning ability of 'legal' citizens of Mexican descent...And flooding the U.S. with all of Mexico's poor will furthur drive wages down...
But I have to wonder, why is it that people like you encourage the population of Mexico to come to the U.S. to take our jobs when you could be doing something IN MEXICO to create work for your citizens...Why not make Mexico a desirable place to live and work???
If you understood it you might.
Slums can be handled locally. The city condemns a slum neighborhood, buys the land, bulldozes it down and then sells it to developers who agree to build low cost housing in exchange for tax abatements, low interest bond financing etc... Then the city uses their bond rating to help lower income people buy the homes. The city has replaced a slum with a new subdivision at very little cost to the taxpayers. Everybody wins, especially the city by increasing its tax base.
But if the citizens of California aren't aware that their local governments can do things to clean up slums that's their loss.
Do you really believe that Hispanics are criminals?
I've owned a number of businesses and employed hundreds of people from janitors to lawyers. I don't know of any employer who won't tell you that the most valuable asset a company can have is a good employee.
Often one company will buy another company for no other reason than to get its employees. Being from California you should be aware of this since it was rampant in silicone valley in the 90s.
What are you talking about? The only worker permits I know of are for medical school graduates and models.
I really wish that you would quit throwing around the "racist" tag on these immigration threads. If you have a good argument, you can make it without accusing people of being racists just because they want our immigration laws enforced, our borders secured, or because they are opposed to a guest worker program.
If you don't make any racist comments no one will think that you are one of the racist.
It is true that there is a fine line between supporting our President in this crucial time (a president who we all love and respect so much) and having the courage to stand up to him when he is obviously imperiling the nation with such an open border policy.
I am trying to understand the Presidents reasoning. Is he possibly thinking that there is no way to stop them from coming so best to have them beholden to Republicans so when they become the majority of voters in several states (and they will eventually), then they will keep the Republican party in power?
I have read (even on this board) the sentiments that what would be so wrong with the USA eventual becoming dominantly Hispanic, perhaps that is our destiny. I guess the question then becomes whether we want to continue to celebrate the 4th of July or would we be content to celebrate Cinco de Maya, because from what I am seeing, most Hispanics are not very interested in assimilating into an American culture and language, but intend on retaining their own.
I guess I have to question a bit of your reasoning on the subject of Mexican immigrants building slums across the nation. That would be a temporary condition...... just like it was when the Scots/Irish immigrants came. First generation there were slums, future generations got an education and worked their way out. So perhaps Bush is reasoning, they will come... so let them work legally so they can rise above the slums one day. But then the same ole question arises...... are we ready to see America become predominantly Hispanic? Perhaps Bush has accepted the inevitable. Perhaps he sees a future when there is little distinction between borders of any country?
Ill probably get flamed for saying this but my thoughts are that George W Bush sees what his father called A New World Order... when his father said in 1991,
Now, we can see a new world coming into view. A world in which there is the very real prospect of a new world order. In the words of Winston Churchill, a "world order" in which "the principles of justice and fair play ... protect the weak against the strong ..." A world where the United Nations, freed from cold war stalemate, is poised to fulfill the historic vision of its founders. To me this is a scary thought!
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