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Motorcycle Riders May be Allowed to Ride Without a Helmet
WTOP News ^ | February 4, 2005 | unk.

Posted on 02/04/2005 8:21:40 PM PST by FoxInSocks

RICHMOND, Va. - It's been a tough day for highway safety advocates at the Virginia General Assembly.

The House Militia, Police and Public Safety Committee endorsed legislation allowing motorcyclists 21 and older to ride without a helmet. The vote was 12-to-7.

The panel also rejected a series of bills to continue the use of photo monitoring systems at dangerous intersections in six northern Virginia localities and Virginia Beach. Those pilot programs allow police to use cameras to catch drivers who run red lights.

The programs are scheduled to expire July 1.

Another bill rejected by the committee would have expanded photo-red statewide.

The motorcycle helmet bill will be up for a vote on the House floor early next week. Similar bills have failed on close votes on the House floor three years in a row.


TOPICS: News/Current Events; US: Virginia
KEYWORDS: cistswearhelmets; motorcycles; nannystate; redlightcameras; seriousmotorcyl; vageneralassembly
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And no more red light cameras, either.
1 posted on 02/04/2005 8:21:41 PM PST by FoxInSocks
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To: FoxInSocks

A small particle of liberty to be restored? Wowza! What are they, high?


2 posted on 02/04/2005 8:23:42 PM PST by Hank Rearden (Never allow anyone who could only get a government job attempt to tell you how to run your life.)
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To: FoxInSocks

Just don't smoke while you ride..God forbid...


3 posted on 02/04/2005 8:24:58 PM PST by BerniesFriend
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To: FoxInSocks

Liberty bump!


4 posted on 02/04/2005 8:25:12 PM PST by Poser (Joining Belly Girl in the Pajamahadeen)
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To: FoxInSocks

Makes sense. On the same token, the gov't should allow the insurance industry more liberties when it comes to pricing premia for risky lifestyles.


5 posted on 02/04/2005 8:26:04 PM PST by Kurt_D
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To: FoxInSocks

It is not the governments place to tell people that they have to wear a helmet...if you dont than it is your own damn fault


6 posted on 02/04/2005 8:29:13 PM PST by grand old partier
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To: FoxInSocks

Wow-a return to liberty in Virginia!


7 posted on 02/04/2005 8:29:35 PM PST by MontanaBeth (NEVER FORGET)
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To: Hank Rearden
Liberty? You mean I will have to go back to fearing for my life every time I come to an intersection around here.

Sounds like I'd be well advised to get a gun to carry around with me in my car lest I encounter any of these red-light runners we're gonna' have, so I can defend myself.

Like if the law isn't going to protect you, there's no choice but to exercise the Second Amendment.

8 posted on 02/04/2005 8:30:42 PM PST by muawiyah (tag line removed)
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To: Kurt_D

actually in many (most?) states motorcycles are not part of the no fault insurance system. So this will have no effect.

Besides, do people realise that FMVSS 218 which established helmet standards only goes up to 15 mph?

Most accidents are the result of the automobile? Riders who get into accidents are usually riders with less than 6 months of experience and have no MC endorsement (aka motorcycle license).

Also federal motor vehicle safety standard 218 has NO, ZIP, NONE standard regarding neck stresses.

just a few trivia points.


9 posted on 02/04/2005 8:30:57 PM PST by longtermmemmory (VOTE!)
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To: Kurt_D

Yeah no helmet no insurance.

If you want to live like a Viking die like a Viking in a heroic blase of glory.

Just don't expect your fellow premiem payers to foot the bill for a life time in the vegetable patch.


10 posted on 02/04/2005 8:31:35 PM PST by beaver fever
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To: FoxInSocks

I bet there is an ABATE in that state!


11 posted on 02/04/2005 8:31:41 PM PST by longtermmemmory (VOTE!)
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To: muawiyah
I was referring to the helmets, but dumping the spy cameras is a good thing too.

And having a firearm available, should you need it, is a good thing. Just ask anybody around here . . . . . .

12 posted on 02/04/2005 8:32:06 PM PST by Hank Rearden (Never allow anyone who could only get a government job attempt to tell you how to run your life.)
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To: grand old partier
Oh, yes, the motorcycle guys ~ certainly they should be allowed to do what they wish. However, they should all be required to make a deposit to pay for the body removal when they get hit.

Taxpayers should be allowed to wash their hands of the whole matter, right?!

13 posted on 02/04/2005 8:32:09 PM PST by muawiyah (tag line removed)
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To: BerniesFriend
Just don't smoke while you ride..God forbid...

Funny you should say that . . . there's now talk of banning smoking in Virginia's public buildings. Give with one hand, take with the other.

14 posted on 02/04/2005 8:32:31 PM PST by FoxInSocks ("It's fun to shoot some people." -- James Mattis, Lt. Gen., USMC)
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To: FoxInSocks

What the...? Did some terrorists poison the local water supply with a Common Sense bug or something? Will ther ebe further outbreaks?


15 posted on 02/04/2005 8:32:47 PM PST by Chad Fairbanks (I'd like to find your inner child and kick its little ass)
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To: FoxInSocks

I don't like being told I have to wear a helmet on a motorcycle I bought and paid taxes for. I do wear a helmet and other protective gear because it's the smart thing to do.


16 posted on 02/04/2005 8:34:05 PM PST by BipolarBob (Yes I backed over the vampire, but I swear I didn't see it in my rearview mirror.)
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To: FoxInSocks

I was once subjected to a head-injury seminar and got to meet accident victims. You'd think they were born retarded, they were so messed up by their accidents. It was scary for a kid.

Basically there are times when it should be safe to ride without a helmut, then there are conditions when you totally need one. Tough issue, IMO.


17 posted on 02/04/2005 8:34:08 PM PST by SteveMcKing
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To: Hank Rearden

And bullets, although I was thinking a Street Sweeper might be more persuasive in a dispute.


18 posted on 02/04/2005 8:34:10 PM PST by muawiyah (tag line removed)
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To: muawiyah

...i would have to agree


19 posted on 02/04/2005 8:34:57 PM PST by grand old partier
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To: martin_fierro
Hi M_F-

Of interest to you for the hooligan ping list...

~ Blue Jays ~

20 posted on 02/04/2005 8:35:49 PM PST by Blue Jays (Rock Hard, Ride Free)
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To: FoxInSocks

I could understand the helmet laws if they made a helmet that didn't bounce like a basketball when they hit the street.

Lost a friend a few years back that way. Lady that hit him was only going about 20mph. All he would have had was a few scratches but when he went off the bike the helmet hit the pavement and bounced like a basketball and he broke his neck.

Guess you're danged if you do and danged if you don't.


21 posted on 02/04/2005 8:37:04 PM PST by GloriaJane (http://music.download.com/gloriajane)
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To: BerniesFriend

No, Virginia is one of the few places that hasn't gone too far overboard with fascist anti-tobacco laws.


22 posted on 02/04/2005 8:37:34 PM PST by wagglebee ("We are ready for the greatest achievements in the history of freedom." -- President Bush, 1/20/05)
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To: FoxInSocks

Great response..I hate smoking..I have worked in a building that had chain smokers and the like..but I don't think it is the government's place to tell people how to handle a legal substance..my favorite joke is second hand flatulance..lol..


23 posted on 02/04/2005 8:38:15 PM PST by BerniesFriend
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To: BipolarBob
Years ago I saw a fellow riding a motorcycle when he was hit from behind by a car traveling faster than him. Launched that sucker right into the air.

He came down on his helmet and brain chunks spilled across US 50 about a block West of the Iwo Jima Memorial area.

Helmets don't work under such conditions, obviously.

The same day a buddy of mine (Jerry Coffee) was out on Sully Road traveling North and a gal in a telephone truck swerved over into his lane and hit him headon. He lived.

That evening another friend was on his bike heading North up I-95 about Landmark. Gal driving a car in front of him suddenly slammed on her brakes when her hood came loose and smacked into her windshield. He smacked into the rear of her car and came through the broken windshield. By that time, of course, he was in several pieces.

I gave up riding motorcycles the next day.

24 posted on 02/04/2005 8:40:48 PM PST by muawiyah (tag line removed)
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To: BipolarBob

Correction ~ it always rattles me a bit when I have to relate that experience ~ Jerry is not the guy hit by the Phone truck. Jerry's the guy who ran into the car on I-95.


25 posted on 02/04/2005 8:42:37 PM PST by muawiyah (tag line removed)
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To: GloriaJane

Or a head that didn't smash in like an over-ripe melon when it hit the ground.

I have no problem with someone not wearing a helmet when they ride, or not wearing a seatbelt when they drive.

But I also think that the insurance companies should be able to have tiered policies. You should have to buy a non-helmet or non-seatbelt policy if that is the way you want to go. If you get into an accident without the helmet, and you haven't paid the high premiums, they should be able to refuse payments.


26 posted on 02/04/2005 8:44:45 PM PST by rlmorel
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To: muawiyah
I gave up riding motorcycles the next day.

I don't blame you. I have told my children to take care of their bodies and have a healthy lifestyle. But the older I get, the more I want from life. At 16 I was scared to skydive, but when I reach 60 (10 years hence)I will, God willing, do just that. The older I get, the more risks I feel allowed. I would rather die on my motorcycle than die of old age in a nursing home - if I have a choice. I don't have a deathwish, I have a lifewish - to live it fully.

27 posted on 02/04/2005 8:50:12 PM PST by BipolarBob (Yes I backed over the vampire, but I swear I didn't see it in my rearview mirror.)
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To: BerniesFriend

Share it, please.

The joke, not the flatulence, that is!


28 posted on 02/04/2005 8:52:27 PM PST by lightman (The Office of the Keys should be exercised as some ministry needs to be exorcised.)
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To: muawiyah

"Sounds like I'd be well advised to get a gun to carry around with me in my car lest I encounter any of these red-light runners we're gonna' have, so I can defend myself."

How big of a gun would it take to stop a motor vehicle as it runs a red light before it hits you? And can you really draw that fast?


29 posted on 02/04/2005 8:54:09 PM PST by Blue Collar Christian ( Political correctness in incorrect. ><BCC>)
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To: FoxInSocks

That's fine, as long as they don't SMOKE!


30 posted on 02/04/2005 8:54:13 PM PST by Doohickey ("This is a hard and dirty war, but when it's over, nothing will ever be too difficult again.)
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To: beaver fever
Just don't expect your fellow premiem payers to foot the bill for a life time in the vegetable patch.

That why in Texas we allow people to ride without a helmet but they have to carry an extra insurance policy so if something happens the state doesn't end up paying for years of medical care.

31 posted on 02/04/2005 8:56:15 PM PST by COEXERJ145
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To: lightman

actually..with all this bad science about second hand smoke..maybe second hand flatuance should also be outlawed..I mean..I am at work..next thing I know..my co-worker is cutting one..why should I be exposed to that..where is the justice in that?????


32 posted on 02/04/2005 8:56:46 PM PST by BerniesFriend
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To: rlmorel

But I also think that the insurance companies should be able to have tiered policies."

Me too.
If you carry a cellphone in your car, you should have to have double the liability.
If you put on makeup while driving,triple liability.
If you drive 60 in the fast lane and ignore the cars behind you, and flip off anyone who honks or flashes they're lights,
your insurance company should cancel you, cause you are a moron.


33 posted on 02/04/2005 8:58:35 PM PST by philetus (What goes around comes around)
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Comment #34 Removed by Moderator

To: Blue Collar Christian
The redlight runners don't always make a perfect T-bone when they hit. Still, an awful lot of them are stupid enough to stop and check things out after hitting you.

That's when trouble will begin now that the Commonwealth of Virginia has decided it no longer cares if people run redlights in highly congested urban areas.

Assault and battery is not just an insurance claim. It's a provocation to self-defense.

35 posted on 02/04/2005 8:59:27 PM PST by muawiyah (tag line removed)
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To: philetus

Hah! Good ones....ever see someone read a paper while they drive???


36 posted on 02/04/2005 9:00:09 PM PST by rlmorel
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To: BipolarBob

Riding that bike you have a chance of ending your days in an assisted care facility drooling into your lap ~ not all the serious accidents end in death you know.


37 posted on 02/04/2005 9:01:28 PM PST by muawiyah (tag line removed)
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To: rlmorel

Just tonight while coming home, a woman reading a sheaf of papers in rush hour L.A. traffic with an eight of a mile open space in front of her and a mess of angry drivers behind her.


38 posted on 02/04/2005 9:02:42 PM PST by philetus (What goes around comes around)
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To: FoxInSocks

stupid.

i was in the hospital for ten days a few years ago. one day a new nurse showed up, and i casually asked her, why are you here?

and she gave me a truthful answer: there's a young man in the neurological area that i worked with for several months, and finally i couldn't take it anymore. motorcycle accident. alive, but probably a vegetable for years....


39 posted on 02/04/2005 9:06:58 PM PST by ken21 (most news today is either stupid or evil.)
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To: Kurt_D

I don't know about a lot of you others, but I've had fewer injuries in 20 years of riding, than I have had in driving.

So, would I pay higher rates when I drive?

If you are talking about 'risky-lifestyles', are you ready to suggest that smokers pay higher rates? Fat people that eat too much fast food? How about Reservists and National Gaurdsmen? That's become a bit risky lately.

How about homosexuals?

That has got to be at the very top of the risk assessment chart. (IMHO)


40 posted on 02/04/2005 9:11:32 PM PST by SFC Chromey (Was deployed 26 of the last 48 months, we are at war to protect the American way of life.)
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To: grand old partier
you dont than it is your own damn fault

The problem with this reasoning is that riders who have an accident and are brain-damaged become lifelong indigent medical patients.

How do you like paying taxes for their medical bills?

The second that someone's risky behavior includes a reasonably forseeable claim on the public treasury that behavior becomes my business.

41 posted on 02/04/2005 9:12:06 PM PST by CurlyDave
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To: COEXERJ145

And so they should.

Most experienced riders can 'can get on down the highway' all their lives and never lay down their ride.

It's the weekend wannabe's that make life miserable for everyone else.


42 posted on 02/04/2005 9:13:05 PM PST by beaver fever
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To: beaver fever

As everyone knows, though, even the most experienced bike rider can have his head handed to him by any auto driver on any day. All it takes is a moment of inattention by the auto driver (or vice versa)


43 posted on 02/04/2005 9:16:32 PM PST by rlmorel
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To: hellbilly

Your "us and them" mindset is not productive for this fabulous sport-the Harley guys snub the metric cruiser guys who think lowly of the rice rocket crazies who believe the Gold Wing guys need to get a life who then agree with all the previouly mentioned motorcyclist that BMW riders are pricks. However, I do agree with you about financial responsiblilty. Why can't an insurance policy state a head injury occuring during an accident while not wearing a helmet is not covered? And then we tax payers should tell the morons with disabling head injuries acquired while crashing without a helmet that they're on their own.


44 posted on 02/04/2005 9:17:20 PM PST by Blue Collar Christian ( Political correctness in incorrect. ><BCC>)
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To: SFC Chromey
If you are talking about 'risky-lifestyles', are you ready to suggest that smokers pay higher rates?

I think smokers do pay higher insurance rates. It's all about the statistics and the tables -- insurance companies have been doing it a long time and have crunched a lot of numbers.

If it's more risky to ride without a helmet, they'll make the appropriate adjustments.

45 posted on 02/04/2005 9:17:52 PM PST by FoxInSocks ("It's fun to shoot some people." -- James Mattis, Lt. Gen., USMC)
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To: FoxInSocks

I worn a helmet since before it was a law, even here in Kalifornia, but that doesn't mean I liked it.

Hmmm, I see that there are more head injuries cause in car crashes. Hmmm, I think all car drivers should wear helmets while driving. That would lower the risks.

Let me remind you, more people die on the roads of the US in one day, than die in Iraq in a month.

Sounds to me like driving is risky business. Sounds like living is risky business.


46 posted on 02/04/2005 9:22:35 PM PST by SFC Chromey (Was deployed 26 of the last 48 months, we are at war to protect the American way of life.)
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To: longtermmemmory
"Riders who get into accidents are usually riders with less than 6 months of experience and have no MC endorsement"

That's true! I had a GF that wrecked $20K of nice Harley hardware in 3 weeks. After I helped keep company with her through a left broken arm and right broken leg, I deftly stepped aside and back. She almost went down a canyon. I suppose she's still the same sort of firecracker:) Not with me, though. I just don't need that sort of load.

47 posted on 02/04/2005 9:24:10 PM PST by BobS
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To: SFC Chromey
Hmmm, I see that there are more head injuries cause in car crashes.

Hmmm, I see many, many more cars than motorcycles on the road.

Sounds like living is risky business.

It is. But the government can't protect everyone from everything all the time, despite their sorry efforts to do so.

48 posted on 02/04/2005 9:35:56 PM PST by FoxInSocks ("It's fun to shoot some people." -- James Mattis, Lt. Gen., USMC)
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To: rlmorel

I'm not minimizing the risk.

I saw the aftermath of a couple of bad bike accidents one where a couple of guys leaving a bar decided to run a light as at the same time an 18 wheeler drove into the intersection.

They hit the dolly crank on the trailer doing 90 and the whole side of the trailer was one big spray pattern.

Weird thing is I felt sorry for the truck driver who was trying to do CPR on a couple of dead kids at three in the morning when he was working on a two hour milk run.

He had to carry that aroung for the rest of his life.


49 posted on 02/04/2005 9:37:49 PM PST by beaver fever
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50 posted on 02/04/2005 9:45:20 PM PST by martin_fierro (_____oooo_( )_oooo_____)
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