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Unpatriotic Conservatives: A war against America. (A refresher course is called for)
National Review ^ | April 7, 2003 | David Frum

Posted on 02/06/2005 7:07:12 PM PST by quidnunc

"I respect and admire the French, who have been a far greater nation than we shall ever be, that is, if greatness means anything loftier than money and bombs." – Thomas Fleming, "Hard Right," March 13, 2003

From the very beginning of the War on Terror, there has been dissent, and as the war has proceeded to Iraq, the dissent has grown more radical and more vociferous. Perhaps that was to be expected. But here is what never could have been: Some of the leading figures in this antiwar movement call themselves "conservatives."

These conservatives are relatively few in number, but their ambitions are large. They aspire to reinvent conservative ideology: to junk the 50-year-old conservative commitment to defend American interests and values throughout the world — the commitment that inspired the founding of this magazine — in favor of a fearful policy of ignoring threats and appeasing enemies.

And they are exerting influence. When Richard Perle appeared on Meet the Press on February 23 of this year, Tim Russert asked him, "Can you assure American viewers … that we're in this situation against Saddam Hussein and his removal for American security interests? And what would be the link in terms of Israel?" Perle rebutted the allegation. But what a grand victory for the antiwar conservatives that Russert felt he had to air it.

You may know the names of these antiwar conservatives. Some are famous: Patrick Buchanan and Robert Novak. Others are not: Llewellyn Rockwell, Samuel Francis, Thomas Fleming, Scott McConnell, Justin Raimondo, Joe Sobran, Charley Reese, Jude Wanniski, Eric Margolis, and Taki Theodoracopulos.

-snip-

(Excerpt) Read more at nationalreview.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Editorial; Extended News; Politics/Elections; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: antiwarright; davidfrum

1 posted on 02/06/2005 7:07:12 PM PST by quidnunc
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Comment #2 Removed by Moderator

To: quidnunc

LOL! I just thanked you (freepmail) for the link to this article. I had thought it would be good to post, but too old! Glad you did!


3 posted on 02/06/2005 7:10:28 PM PST by lancer (If you are not with us, you are against us!)
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To: quidnunc; fastattacksailor; broadsword; Fred Nerks; jan in Colorado; ariamne; ...

Quidnunc fids another good post PING!


4 posted on 02/06/2005 7:11:38 PM PST by Former Dodger (I thought ABORTION was murder and FUR was a Woman's right to choose.)
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To: quidnunc

There're a few FReepers I can think of that this article describes to a T...


5 posted on 02/06/2005 7:13:52 PM PST by Ex-Dem (This tagline has been defaced.)
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To: quidnunc
I lost all respect for Tom Fleming when Chronicles, which he edits, published an article in 1998 by Pat Buchanan on the Civil War which was riddled with errors (about 50 of them). They declined to print a letter of mine criticizing the article, and I declined to renew my subscription.
6 posted on 02/06/2005 7:30:49 PM PST by Richard from IL
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To: quidnunc

If it was the right thing to do, I'd be the first to oppose the invasion of Iraq. In fact, there are many things wrong with the way we make war and structure our defense. But invading Iraq is not anywhere near the top of this list.

The "conservatives" like Pat Buchannan who oppose the war do it for all the wrong reasons, and are never there to speak up for properly declared wars proper authorization of a standing army. They have picked the wrong fight.


7 posted on 02/06/2005 7:40:45 PM PST by eno_ (Freedom Lite, it's almost worth defending.)
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To: Former Dodger

This one's for my friends in the US - there's nothing in the Australian experience to compare. I've never met an Aussie from either side of the fence who hated his own country. Even John Pilger, an Australian whom I despise, reserves his worst vitriol for the United States, which makes me think you guys must have something pretty good going for you over there, I mean, why else would a shrivelled up old alcoholic like him hate you so much?
Keep on doing whatever it is that is driving them crazy. If they hate the US enough they may all decide to leave, and go to Canada. (As long as they don't come here.)


8 posted on 02/06/2005 7:54:24 PM PST by Fred Nerks (Understand Evil: Read THE LIFE OF MUHAMMAD. Link on my Page. free pdf.)
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To: quidnunc

Every movement has its extremists. The difference between ours and the Left's? We don't give them the reins of the Party. We slap them down when needed.


9 posted on 02/06/2005 8:09:41 PM PST by Soul Seeker
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To: quidnunc

Pat Buchannon just likes to hear himself talk, and if being a Bush critic gets him a microphone, so be it.


10 posted on 02/06/2005 8:18:22 PM PST by DTogo (U.S. out of the U.N. & U.N out of the U.S.)
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To: quidnunc
"I respect and admire the French, who have been a far greater nation than we shall ever be

Sure, the land of the bloody Revolution, Dreyfus, collapses in 1870 and 1940, and the various King Louis is so very great.

11 posted on 02/06/2005 8:22:02 PM PST by expatpat
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To: quidnunc

I guess it all depends on what your definition of "conservtive" is. I suppose if you want to conserve our Constitutional Republic, and among other things, insist that we only go to war when Congress declares it, and that we take heed of George Washington's dictum that we remain out of foreign entanglements, then you must not be "conservative" by National Review standards.

But considering that National Review William F. Buckley once admitted that he would be a "Mike Harrington socialist" or "even a Communist," it does not surprise me that the above was written in that neocon rag.


12 posted on 02/06/2005 8:22:17 PM PST by w6ai5q37b
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To: quidnunc
Buchanan, Novak & reported others ARE the reason why Anti- Anxiety prescriptions are at an all time high.
They're the "Listen to me" types that always get their panty's in a bunch and hitch a ride on any View or Issue that's critical of (Neo)Conservatives. Perceived "inside" criticism is their only way to be Heard above others AND the MSM passes it off as "Credibility"

Thank God the Conservative Majority doesn't buy much of there Worn-out "Fear & Isolationism" bit.

Damn, Where is Ronald Reagan when we need him.........
13 posted on 02/06/2005 8:22:37 PM PST by austinmark (If GOD Had Been A Liberal, We Wouldn't Have Had The Ten Commandments- We'd Have The Ten Suggestions.)
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To: w6ai5q37b

. President Bush said we needed to go to war. President Bush's word is good enough for me, and it should be good enough for you.

Now pipe down, and stopy whining and complaining.


14 posted on 02/06/2005 8:28:28 PM PST by Teplukin
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To: quidnunc

Why doesn't Frum go back to his own country of Canada if he doesn't like how we do things here.


15 posted on 02/06/2005 8:47:33 PM PST by Destro (Know your enemy! Help fight Islamic terrorism by visiting johnathangaltfilms.com and jihadwatch.org)
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To: quidnunc

I don't know why the author has such a problem with these "anti-war conservatives." The least he could do is concede that they had a damn good point -- considering this administration's formal acknowledgement that the "weapons of mass destruction" claim was just a lot of crap.


16 posted on 02/06/2005 9:10:47 PM PST by Alberta's Child (I'm not expecting to grow flowers in the desert.)
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To: w6ai5q37b
But considering that National Review William F. Buckley once admitted that he would be a "Mike Harrington socialist" or "even a Communist," it does not surprise me that the above was written in that neocon rag.
Please cite.
17 posted on 02/06/2005 9:22:30 PM PST by rmlew (Copperheads and Peaceniks beware! Sedition is a crime.)
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To: quidnunc

Chutzpah. Mr Frum.

Neo-cons are making 'lists',now? Questioning others patriotism?

From historical experience you know better, Mr. Canuck. A despicable tactic used by desparate people.

Maybe your gang should concentrate on taking out the burned- out-Jordanian high-school dropout who is killing so many of America's best men and women.

Stop attacking citizens who won't prostrate themselves at your gang's feet to praise you, and your perverted view of conservatism.


18 posted on 02/06/2005 9:23:26 PM PST by Finalapproach29er (Open borders=National suicide)
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To: Alberta's Child
Alberta's Child wrote: I don't know why the author has such a problem with these "anti-war conservatives." The least he could do is concede that they had a damn good point -- considering this administration's formal acknowledgement that the "weapons of mass destruction" claim was just a lot of crap.

You haven't been paying attention.

Though Saddam either destroyed his stockpiles or shipped them to places like Syria, he kept his programs in place so that he could start them up on very short notice once the sanctions were lifted.

But he didn't tell anybody outside his top circle of cronies.

Even field generals in the Iraqi army believed that chemical weapons existed.

And every intelligence agency in the West believed that Iraq contained stockpiles of WMD.

19 posted on 02/06/2005 9:26:43 PM PST by quidnunc (Omnis Gaul delenda est)
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To: Teplukin

"President Bush said we needed to go to war. President Bush's word is good enough for me, and it should be good enough for you."

Never fully trust any politician. It's not cnservative, and it is unAmerican.

Having said that, I can't find a single thing conservative about Pat Buchanan. He's against free markets and might as well be a socialist on labor issues.


20 posted on 02/06/2005 9:33:24 PM PST by New Orleans Slim
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To: quidnunc
"...And every intelligence agency in the West believed that Iraq contained stockpiles of WMD."

Yep. And if they we all destroyed then we certainly have not found nearly enough evidence of their destruction. The logical question:

Where'd they go?

JWinNC

21 posted on 02/06/2005 9:37:11 PM PST by JWinNC (www.webgent.com)
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To: New Orleans Slim

That the danger of the paleo brand. I lumps together populist/isolationist conservatives like Buchanan and old-school small government/FP realists. Bush innauguration speech had so much neocon idealism in it, it might have been penned by woordrow wilson.


22 posted on 02/06/2005 9:45:28 PM PST by Huntingtonian
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To: JWinNC

No, the logical question is this:

How can anyone be comfortable with the idea of not knowing whether Saddam has a WMD arsenal?

He didn't just sprinkle fairy dust on the Kurds and the Iranians.

We are now certain that Saddam no longer has recourse to Chemical weapons. That's enough for me.


23 posted on 02/06/2005 9:47:54 PM PST by A Balrog of Morgoth (With fire, sword, and stinging whip I drive the Rats in terror before me.)
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To: Huntingtonian

Sort of the way how anybody who defends the War in Iraq or suggests those brownskinned Arabs might benefit from democracy gets labelled a 'neo-con'.


24 posted on 02/06/2005 9:50:09 PM PST by A Balrog of Morgoth (With fire, sword, and stinging whip I drive the Rats in terror before me.)
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To: quidnunc
"And some of them explicitly yearn for the victory of their nation's enemies. "

That's the Buchanan/Tancredo anti-Hispanic crowd that gleefully warns that a terrorist will drag an atomic bomb across the desert border and kill several million people in the U.S. just so they can say to President Bush, "See, we told you to build a fence across Mexico."

They hate Bush so much that, although they demand that he bust the employers of illegal laborers, they go postal when anyone suggest that their own local police are authorized to do the same thing.

25 posted on 02/06/2005 9:59:45 PM PST by bayourod (Unless we get over 40% of the Hispanic vote in 2008, President Hillary will take all your guns away.)
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To: quidnunc

"You may know the names of these antiwar conservatives. Some are famous: Patrick Buchanan and Robert Novak. Others are not: Llewellyn Rockwell, Samuel Francis, Thomas Fleming, Scott McConnell, Justin Raimondo, Joe Sobran, Charley Reese, Jude Wanniski, Eric Margolis, and Taki Theodoracopulos."

Buchanan and Novak are paid professional political journalists, and are beyond their peak years.


I barely recognize the rest, and Raimondo soils any list he appears on.

All in all, not an impressive lot. Not in positions to influence policy, or change minds.


26 posted on 02/07/2005 12:40:27 AM PST by truth_seeker
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To: quidnunc

*yawn*


27 posted on 02/07/2005 2:37:10 AM PST by sauropod (Hitlary: "We're going to take things away from you on behalf of the common good.")
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To: sauropod

bump to that...this is just a flame war starting slow.


28 posted on 02/07/2005 3:19:43 AM PST by LibertarianInExile (NO BLOOD FOR CHOCOLATE! Get the UN-ignoring, unilateralist Frogs out of Ivory Coast!)
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To: DTogo

You are probably right with that assessment. There is a local Baltimore guy - Ron Smith - that I listened to prior to the 2000 elections. He was extremely anti-Clinton and seemed conservative. Now, whenever I tune in which is rarely, he continually bashes this administration. I peg him now as an opportunist that swings both ways for an audience. Somehwat like Bill O'Reilly.


29 posted on 02/07/2005 3:30:22 AM PST by 7thson (I think it takes a big dog to weigh a hundred pounds!)
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To: quidnunc

I can't believe all those people were dumb enough to believe something that a lot of folks right here in the U.S. knew wasn't true.


30 posted on 02/07/2005 4:17:40 AM PST by Alberta's Child (I'm not expecting to grow flowers in the desert.)
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To: Teplukin
President Bush said we needed to go to war. President Bush's word is good enough for me, and it should be good enough for you.

That kind of pathological mindset is dangerous to the legitimate function of this republic.

31 posted on 02/07/2005 4:19:03 AM PST by Alberta's Child (I'm not expecting to grow flowers in the desert.)
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To: quidnunc

David Frum: a liberal, warmongering, Canadian journalist.


32 posted on 02/07/2005 4:38:12 AM PST by The Old Hoosier (Right makes might.)
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To: bayourod
"That's the Buchanan/Tancredo anti-Hispanic crowd ...bla, bla, bla, bla..."

Should I get my hip waders on to ward off more of your incessant BS polluting these threads?

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1337133/posts

Were these NORTH Koreans here to pick strawberries?


Bayoplod, not ever person who wants to secure our southern borders hates "messicans".


Sheesh...

"They hate Bush so much that,....bla, bla, bla...blippity blabber"

More linguistic diarrhea from the prince of poop here on FR.

I think very few people here on FR hate Bush. Most of the rational people who post on the illegal "immigration" threads have a rather intense dislike for his policies regarding his half-a$$ed approach to our border security problem.

It really ain't all about the "M"s, ok?

Get over it, Amigo.
33 posted on 02/07/2005 6:47:39 AM PST by taxed2death (A few billion here, a few trillion there...we're all friends right?)
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To: rmlew
Lingua Franca Feb. 2001. Article entitled "The Ex-Cons;" begins on p. 24 and the Buckley quotes are on p.31 and 33. I think the magazine went under recently, but most colleges should have the back issues in their stacks.

I also read a Buckley article in a 1952 issue of Commonweal which he insisted we needed a large Federal government even with Truman "at the reins of it all." (Even though he said it was necessary for the purpose of fighting communism, do we ourselves need to become communist in order to fight communism?) All this and more is summarized in the book available at the bottom of this page I'm linking you to.
34 posted on 02/07/2005 8:12:28 AM PST by w6ai5q37b
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To: quidnunc

Thanks for posting this article. My local paper pulishes Charley Reece's syndicated column. Oh, I CAN'T STAND HIM!!! I fully admit that Americans aren't perfect, but he's so off base when he calls them "socialists who aren't aware of it" and says the country is freakish and un-Christian. Not to mention his claim that nearly all of America's problems are caused by the South losing the Civil War.

Am I the only Free Republica poster who's heard of him?


35 posted on 02/07/2005 5:11:27 PM PST by Clintonfatigued
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