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Hateful Christianity?
The Omega Letter ^ | Feb 9, 2005 | Jack Kinsella

Posted on 02/10/2005 10:38:58 AM PST by tang-soo

Prophecy - Signs
Wednesday, February 09, 2005
Jack Kinsella - Omega Letter Editor

Last October, a group of eleven Christians attended a pro-homosexual rally called the 'Outfest' where they displayed banners with biblical messages, sang hymns and preached from the Bible.

Not long after the group began their activity, members of the Pink Angels, which the statement describes as "a militant mob of homosexuals," confronted the protesters and attempted to drown out their message with whistles, while hiding the signs with large sheets of pink Styrofoam.

After the confrontation, the Christians were arrested and taken to jail. None of the homosexuals at the 'Outfest' were charged or arrested.

In all, eight charges were filed against the Christians: criminal conspiracy, possession of instruments of crime, reckless endangerment of another person, ethnic intimidation, riot, failure to disperse, disorderly conduct and obstructing highways.

The “ethnic intimidation” charge was made possible by Pennsylvania’s Ethnic Intimidation and Institutional Vandalism Act – that state's “hate crimes" law – to which the newest "victim" category of "sexual orientation" was recently appended.

The Christian group issued a statement in which they complained, "Despite the fact that our behavior was above reproach and we were attacked by a mob of whistle-blowing, obscenity-screaming God haters, the Christians, and only the Christians, were charged."

The entire incident was videotaped. It clearly showed the defendants cooperating with police as well as documenting the harassment activities of the Pink Angels.

Philadelphia's prosecutor argued before the court that the defendants were "hateful" and referred to preaching the Bible as "fighting words." The judge in the case agreed and ordered them bound for trial.

Four of the Christians arrested were ordered to stand trial on three felony and five misdemeanor charges. If convicted, they could each get a maximum of 47 years in prison. One female teenage protester faces charges in the juvenile justice system.

Charges were dropped against six of the 11 Christians, apparently because they were not seen quoting Scripture on the videotape, since, in this case, quoting the Bible is what constitutes the 'corpus delecti' (body of the crime).

It has since been revealed that homosexual attorneys from the U.S. Justice Department Civil Rights Division were among the 'celebrants' at 'Outfest'. They allegedly 'advised' the police to arrest the Christians and helped them formulate the charges.

Consequently, appeals from the Christian group to the Department of Justice, claiming that their civil rights were violated fell on deaf ears.

What makes this even more egregious is the fact that an article printed in the Philadelphia Gay News, published BEFORE the 'Outfest' festival, announced -- in advance -- that the organizers intended to block Christians from access to the event.

Chuck Volz, senior adviser to Philly Pride Presents, told the publication the Pink Angels security force would carry large signs alongside the Christians to surround them and block their access to OutFest participants.

But Volz also admitted the Christians had a 1st Amendment right to attend, just as they did.

"Given the parameters of the First Amendment, there's no way to keep them out," he said. "I think the gay community should understand that the gay-rights movement has succeeded because people are permitted free speech under the First Amendment. We can't be in a position of denying people the right to compete with us in the marketplace of ideas." Unless, of course, they are Christians.

It is hard to argue against the evidence. I'm not referring to the evidence provided by the videotape that proves the Christians were cooperative with police and non-violent in their demonstration. Evidently, THAT evidence is extremely easy to argue against.

The evidence I am referring to is the evidence that being a Christian in America is ALREADY a crime. We are talking about the United States -- not Russia, Vietnam or Saudi Arabia, here.

What I find fascinating is that, in the days of the Apostles, it was also a crime to accept Jesus, and the charges then were the same as the charges now.

In the days of the Roman Emperors, Christians were charged with what were the equivalent to 'hate crimes' for preaching Jesus as the only way to heaven.

That is the same argument the Bible says will find wide acceptance during the Tribulation Period when the antichrist launches a world-wide effort aimed at exterminating Christians and Jews.

Here's the fascinating part.

Those who claim Christians practice hate speech by claiming Jesus as the only way to heaven don't believe in Jesus anyway.

They don't believe they are accountable to Jesus, and don't believe that accepting Jesus will win them entry into a heaven that they don't believe in either.

So, the Philadelphia Christians are charged with preaching the 'alleged' words of a Person their opponents dispute ever existed, because He said (without ever existing, remember) that, without accepting the 'mythical' Jesus they won't get to go to a place that they say is a myth in the first place!

And THAT activity is so damaging a 'crime' (in America -- and on THIS side of the Tribulation Period), that it merits a potential of 47 years in prison.

It is a vivid foreshadowing of the time that Jesus described as "great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be." (Matthew 24:21)

"So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors. Verily I say unto you, This generation SHALL NOT PASS, till ALL these things be fulfilled." (Matthew 24:33-34)

Excerpted from the Omega Letter Christian Intelligence
Digest, Volume 41, Issue 4


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: corruption; gayagenda; homosexualagenda; mockeryoffaith; philadelphia; philly5; prophecy
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A sign of the Times? This was sent to me from a friend in my Bible study.
1 posted on 02/10/2005 10:38:58 AM PST by tang-soo
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To: tang-soo

Signs of times? To me it smells of big time staged up set up by organized cells intent on corroborating false evidences within government, accross state and federal lines of conivence.

They are not going to stilt gold with this and raise a lot of spirit and moneys. THese floozy loozies are going to hell anyways.
-----
It has since been revealed that homosexual attorneys from the U.S. Justice Department Civil Rights Division were among the 'celebrants' at 'Outfest'. They allegedly 'advised' the police to arrest the Christians and helped them formulate the charges.

Consequently, appeals from the Christian group to the Department of Justice, claiming that their civil rights were violated fell on deaf ears.

What makes this even more egregious is the fact that an article printed in the Philadelphia Gay News, published BEFORE the 'Outfest' festival, announced -- in advance -- that the organizers intended to block Christians from access to the event.


2 posted on 02/10/2005 10:44:26 AM PST by JudgemAll (Condemn me, make me naked and kill me, or be silent for ever on my gun ownership and law enforcement)
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To: tang-soo

"Charges were dropped against six of the 11 Christians, apparently because they were not seen quoting Scripture on the videotape, since, in this case, quoting the Bible is what constitutes the 'corpus delecti' (body of the crime)."

So now it's a crime to quote the Bible in the presence of homosexuals.


3 posted on 02/10/2005 10:53:00 AM PST by Irish Rose ("And I learned with little labour/to love my fellow-man, and hate my next-door neighbor...")
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To: tang-soo
This article is a gross misrepresentation.

These people are ’re not up for 47 years and weren’t just “preaching” but raided the stage of a permitted demonstration. They were trying to interfere with the gay’s right to speak more than speak themselves. Whoever wrote this is misrepresenting it. Real Christians don’t “bear false witness”.

If the situation were turned around, I’d expect you to all support Act Up’s arrest for “preaching” with bullhorns at the inauguration parade and refusing the police orders to return to their counter protest area. That’s exactly the same as this case

Demonstrations and emotional counter demonstrators are kept apart for a reason . The author is helping these phony Bush hating “Christians” is playing good people here for suckers. I’ve spent time working to convince people of that here, but I’m not going to waste more time rearguing this case. Regards.

4 posted on 02/10/2005 10:53:45 AM PST by elfman2
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To: tang-soo

It's time to stop being shocked by these things and start taking action. What can we do to stop this? To whom do we need to write? On whom do we need to put pressure? The best and fastest route is to get this before members of Congress and raise up such a hue and cry that they are forced to put pressure on the Justice Department. I am writing my Senators and my Representative with a copy of this. I suggest y'all do the same.


5 posted on 02/10/2005 10:57:27 AM PST by Juan Medén
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To: elfman2

Many demonstrators at events such as Dem/Rep Conventions are often arrested and charged with such MISDEMEANORS as disturbing the peace, ect. These Christians are charged with a FELONY: a Hate Crime. A new law that says if special victims groups are harrassed it is a felony with long prison terms as punishment. Funny, though, Christians aren't listed on the protected list of victims.


6 posted on 02/10/2005 10:59:45 AM PST by sportutegrl
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To: tang-soo
Sometimes certain Christians have a hard time being Christ-like.
7 posted on 02/10/2005 11:03:23 AM PST by Tempest (Click on my name for a long list of press contacts)
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To: tang-soo
...will win them entry into a heaven that they don't believe in either.

This does not necessarily follow. Just about every religion has a "heaven." They may not accept the validity of Jesus' teachings, but it does not follow they do not accept the existence of a heaven.

8 posted on 02/10/2005 11:03:45 AM PST by Junior (FABRICATI DIEM, PVNC)
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To: sportutegrl
"Many demonstrators at events such as Dem/Rep Conventions are often arrested and charged with such MISDEMEANORS "

And many aren’t. If they’d promise not to do it again, charges would probably be dropped. But these guys are virtual professional protestors probably hoping to be arrested and now playing the media for all it’s worth. Don’t get fooled.

9 posted on 02/10/2005 11:04:24 AM PST by elfman2
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To: elfman2

You missed my point about misdemeanor vs hate crime felony. It is usually liberals who are the professional protestors, though. Whatever happened to, "I may not agree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it?" We have a first amendment that gives us the right to free speech. There is no amendment giving anyone the right not to be offended.


10 posted on 02/10/2005 11:09:36 AM PST by sportutegrl
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To: elfman2

You missed my point about misdemeanor vs hate crime felony. It is usually liberals who are the professional protestors, though. Whatever happened to, "I may not agree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it?" We have a first amendment that gives us the right to free speech. There is no amendment giving anyone the right not to be offended.


11 posted on 02/10/2005 11:10:03 AM PST by sportutegrl
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To: sportutegrl

Drat! Hit post button twice again.


12 posted on 02/10/2005 11:10:54 AM PST by sportutegrl
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To: tang-soo; Dr. Eckleburg; pharmamom

the media and the enemies of Christians are out to portray and plant in people's minds that Christianity is a religion of hate. Just last night, on television the inane Wife Swap portrayed a Christian woman as a lesbian hating gayaphobe, while the lesbian was portrayed as Saint Lesbo, and that was followed by a segment on the local news about clergy abuse and the mention of pedophilac priests. It's an insidious and purposeful attack, don't kid yourselves


13 posted on 02/10/2005 11:11:40 AM PST by D Edmund Joaquin (Mayor of Jesusland)
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To: tang-soo

Were not all charges against the four demosntrators intially indicted dropped?


14 posted on 02/10/2005 11:11:56 AM PST by Wallace T.
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To: sportutegrl; tang-soo


http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1323258/posts


15 posted on 02/10/2005 11:13:32 AM PST by OB1kNOb
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To: sportutegrl
" Whatever happened to, "I may not agree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it?""

I missed nothing. Please read the links in my first post, especially the one labeled “Kept apart for a reason”. They address all your confusions.

16 posted on 02/10/2005 11:15:32 AM PST by elfman2
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To: elfman2

Have you viewed the video? I didn't see any stage being raided. I believe these folks had permission to be there as well; in any event they were on a public street and have 1st amendment protection as well.

Further, their crimes aren't from using a bullhorn, otherwise they would simply be charged with disturbing the peace. Those who were citing scripture were held for trial, and those who were not had the charges dismissed. That should frighten everyone, even an atheist.


17 posted on 02/10/2005 11:32:10 AM PST by almcbean
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To: D Edmund Joaquin

>>It's an insidious and purposeful attack, don't kid yourselves<<

agreed


18 posted on 02/10/2005 11:33:47 AM PST by Ezekiel 34
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To: elfman2
And many aren’t. If they’d promise not to do it again, charges would probably be dropped. But these guys are virtual professional protestors probably hoping to be arrested and now playing the media for all it’s worth. Don’t get fooled.If even one is charged with a felony for practicing free speech, it is one too many. Freedom of speech is one of the most important freedoms we as americans have. It is necessary to keep tyrants out of elective office. Promising not to do it again, like little children, is effectively giving up your right to free speech.
19 posted on 02/10/2005 11:50:06 AM PST by sportutegrl
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To: elfman2
I missed nothing. Please read the links in my first post, especially the one labeled “Kept apart for a reason”. They address all your confusions.Hyperlinks to other Free Republic articles does not constitute evidence. However, the fact that these Christians may serve up to 47 years in prison has been reported by the Philadelphia Inquirer. There is a charge for access to articles over 7 days old.
20 posted on 02/10/2005 11:53:30 AM PST by sportutegrl
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To: almcbean
"Those who were citing scripture were held for trial, and those who were not had the charges dismissed. That should frighten everyone, even an atheist."

That’s not only frightening, it’s absurd. The fact that such a tin-foil conspiracy is being promoted should discredit everything else they have to say. The video was edited by the disruptors, but I recall a section where they mention that they were driven away from the stage. At 6:08 what looks like the head cop on the scene says, “Look, You were told to go to Walnut Street. Put their gear in the wagon. You’re all under arrest.”. The charges include three felony. criminal conspiracy, ethnic intimidation, and riot (That’s where the bullhorn is relevant) and five misdemeanor charges, not “praying to gays”.

21 posted on 02/10/2005 11:55:17 AM PST by elfman2
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To: sportutegrl

I meant hyperlinks to other COMMENTS BY YOU on Free Republic. . . Free Republic is an excellent source of proof for any argument.


22 posted on 02/10/2005 11:56:44 AM PST by sportutegrl
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To: tang-soo

Isn't Jack Kinsella the guy who plowed under his corn to build a baseball field?


23 posted on 02/10/2005 11:59:50 AM PST by Disambiguator
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To: elfman2

Viewed in it's entirety, the video shows very plainly the exchange between the "leader" of the group of Christians was questioning the police almost continually, trying to establish where his group could and could not be. The Christians were surrounded at almost all times by the gay advocates holding up pink plastic signs that were easily large enough, en masse, to obscure any direct line of sight.

Thereby, the Christians could not see where they were, nor where they were being directed to go. Moreover, they were being obviously blockaded every time they attempted to go anywhere. Their tone was never accusatory nor strident - in stark contrast to the gay militants who were pushy, obnoxious and demanding as well as being too easily offended over relatively nothing.

The "transition" into the arrest of the Christian people was abrupt, and came without any prior cautionary statements,i.e."If you don't stop doing this, if you don't do that immediately, if you don't move from here and go there if you don't leave altogether..."

There were no such caveats - it was so close to a complete set up, that any distinction is quite blurry.

There is no justification and no excuse for the arrest, and there is no legally tenable support for their indictment or prosecution. Contending that someone else's query about free speech represents confusion is a cop-out at best, and disingenuous at worst.


24 posted on 02/10/2005 12:02:05 PM PST by AmericanArchConservative (Armour on, Lances high, Swords out, Bows drawn, Shields front ... Eagles UP!)
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To: sportutegrl
"Hyperlinks to other Free Republic articles does not constitute evidence."

It’s a shortcut to a rebottle, not evidence, so that I don’t have to waste time recomposing the same obvious rebuttals to the same flawed analogies each time one more Freeper is mislead by the same misrepresentation/lie that someone’s up for 47 years unless we do something. That’s why I showed you the link to that rebuttal in #4. You’re free not to read it and repeat the lie, but that’s not very Christian.

25 posted on 02/10/2005 12:02:09 PM PST by elfman2
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To: AmericanArchConservative
"Thereby, the Christians could not see where they were, nor where they were being directed to go"

They couldn’t find their counter protest area? I was born dumb, but it wasn’t yesterday.

Because of the editing, I can’t tell how abrupt the arrest was. But I think they were pretty sophisticated by filming their march from their designated area and experienced enough to know that a refusal to obey orders to return could result in arrest. And yes, they were very nice on video.

26 posted on 02/10/2005 12:09:12 PM PST by elfman2
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To: Disambiguator

Ray, Was it not?


27 posted on 02/10/2005 12:16:57 PM PST by sausageseller (Look out for the jackbooted spelling police. There! Everywhere!(revised cause the "man" accosted me!)
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To: elfman2

"ethnic intimidation"? What ethnicity are gays?


28 posted on 02/10/2005 12:20:21 PM PST by monkeywrench
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To: monkeywrench
""ethnic intimidation"? What ethnicity are gays?"

It looks like a stretch by the prosecutor, or at least a bad name for one of the 3 felonies. It seems like a bad decision to include it, allowing them to get a toe hold on claims of anti-Christianity. But unlike a few others, I can’t read the prosecutor's mind.

29 posted on 02/10/2005 12:27:23 PM PST by elfman2
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To: elfman2

Your key mistake is in assuming they were the ones filming their adventure. It was in fact an independent third party that filmed the whole encounter. The crew was there to film bits for a documentary (not ala Michael Moore) and the group of Christians had no say/gave no direction regarding editing of the tape - which was neither cut nor edited, per se. They are far from "professional protestors" as you mischaracterise them, and they had little/nothing to do with where the film crew stood - hardly a sophisticated approach to filming a march. They were not having a march, either, but rather attempting to stay in one place which they were allowed.

Nobody said anything about dumb. As mentioned they were driven from their designated area - clearly evident from the uncut, unedited tape, and they were surrounded by a large vocal throng carrying signs intended to prevent them from being seen - whcih had the result of them also not being able to see especially well. The mere fact that they were accompained by a police officer almost the entire time suggest strongly that they were not in a position of willfully or knowingly breaking any law, or lawful order given to them.

That by itself undermines the entire basis for charges against them - let alone everything else that happened. When you are obviously trying to be cooperative, obedient, and conciliatory, and are working with conflicting information being disseminated in bits and pieces by those in supposed authority - what can be reasonably expected?

Lacking clear standards for too many things and obviously trying their level best to strike a fair balance between doing what they came there to do, and accommodating the requests of law enforcement - they earned the right by their reasonableness to be accorded more fair treatment than they were given.

If they had tried to tell off the cops, get nasty and or mean spirited in the face of the gay activists, then they could be said to have invited some of their own troubles. But that was not the case - they were sticking to a standard of cooperation, conversation, and decent behavior. At no time did they refuse a direct order/request from the police. No police officer has claimed otherwise - on or off the record.

Their designated counter protest area was quickly thronged over with the gay advocates - although it was outside their "protected" festival area - and they proceeded to follow harrass and blockade the Christians at every turn


30 posted on 02/10/2005 1:03:08 PM PST by AmericanArchConservative (Armour on, Lances high, Swords out, Bows drawn, Shields front ... Eagles UP!)
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To: sausageseller

Maybe. It's been a while since I saw that movie.


31 posted on 02/10/2005 1:13:32 PM PST by Disambiguator
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To: tang-soo
...Chuck Volz, senior adviser to Philly Pride Presents, told the publication the Pink Angels security force would carry large signs alongside the Christians to surround them and block their access to OutFest participants.

But Volz also admitted the Christians had a 1st Amendment right to attend, just as they did.

"Given the parameters of the First Amendment, there's no way to keep them out," he said. "I think the gay community should understand that the gay-rights movement has succeeded because people are permitted free speech under the First Amendment. We can't be in a position of denying people the right to compete with us in the marketplace of ideas."

It's pretty evident that the charges against the Repent America members are trumped up and have no validity when the top legal guy for the perv community freely admits that its a matter of free speech.

32 posted on 02/10/2005 1:14:30 PM PST by OB1kNOb (TBD)
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To: Nightshift; DirtyHarryY2K; little jeremiah; 4lifeandliberty

ping to article about Philly5


33 posted on 02/10/2005 1:28:51 PM PST by tutstar ( <{{--->< http://ripe4change.4-all.org Violations of Florida Statutes ongoing!)
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To: D Edmund Joaquin
It's an insidious and purposeful attack, don't kid yourselves.

Amen!

In the otherwise undistinguished movie, "Catch Me If You Can," FBI agent Tom Hanks has ordered his men to surround the fleeing felon, Leonardo DiCaprio. But Hanks denies it and insists DiCaprio is free to leave.

DiCaprio isn't stupid and taunts Hanks: "Yeah, that's right. Just tell me what you want me to see!"

That's what the media does -- it just tells us what they want us to see.

We're supposed to believe Bible-quoting Christians are "hate-mongers" and "felons."

"Therefore as the fire devoureth the stubble, and the flame consumeth the chaff, so their root shall be as rottenness, and their blossom shall go up as dust: because they have cast away the law of the LORD of hosts, and despised the word of the Holy One of Israel." -- Isaiah 5:24

"We are fools for Christ's sake, but ye are wise in Christ; we are weak, but ye are strong; ye are honourable, but we are despised." -- 1 Corinthians 4:10.

"These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world." -- John 16:33

34 posted on 02/10/2005 1:34:07 PM PST by Dr. Eckleburg (There are very few shades of gray.)
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To: elfman2; 4lifeandliberty

I wonder if you wait for a thread on this topic to come up so you can come and rant on the Christians. Whose side are you on anyway?

They are people who have devoted their life to street ministry. You calling them professional protesters makes me wonder if you have ever been involved in any evangelism at all. There is a big difference between evangelism and protesting. Of course the media is going to use the word with the most negative connotation...if the media called them evangelists some might tend to mentally associate them with Billy or Franklin Graham.

They are in fact each facing possibly up to 47 years in prison each. Google "philly 4 47 years each".

Please do everyone who understands what this is about a favor.

#1 Make an apology to 4lifeandliberty he is one of those you just called " phony Bush hating “Christians” "

#2 Quit distorting the facts.

#3 Please keep you word. "I’m not going to waste more time rearguing this case."


35 posted on 02/10/2005 1:49:00 PM PST by tutstar ( <{{--->< http://ripe4change.4-all.org Violations of Florida Statutes ongoing!)
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To: AmericanArchConservative
"As mentioned they were driven from their designated area - clearly evident from the uncut, unedited tape"

Do you have a tape time on that? I didn’t see anything like it.

I see that I was mistaken about who filmed this. I see that Enough Said Productions was in town to film Michael Marcavage and his disruptors, not the demonstrators, as part of a documentary on the First Amendment in America. There’s almost nothing on them on the net unrelated to this film.

I’d be surprised if there were not police near by just to protect them. It suggest nothing more and “undermines” nothing more.

The “obviously trying to be cooperative, obedient, and conciliatory” is the lest they can do on film to see how far they can keep just this side of the law and appear to be the victims after demonstration crashing. They’re sophisticated enough to know better than to “tell off the cops”, especially on tape?

They apparently refused to return to their area, as evident when the cop said he told them to do so and then arrested them.

If their counter protest area was overrun, we’d all be cheering for the arrest of the gays. That sounds like and attempt at defense after realizing that they crossed the line by leaving. And if that were on film, or backed up by police, this case would have been thrown out on day 1.

And yes, the leader, Michael Marcavage is not ”far from "professional protestors" as you mischaracterise them”. This is his web site. Sound like "your first mistake" ;^)

36 posted on 02/10/2005 2:01:45 PM PST by elfman2
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To: tutstar
"I wonder if you wait for a thread on this topic to come up so you can come and rant on the Christians."

Are you in the habit of making wild accusations of other’s integrity without evidence?

"Please do everyone who understands what this is about a favor. #1 Make an apology to 4lifeandliberty he is one of those you just called " phony Bush hating “Christians” " "

This if from the leader Michael Marcavages’ web site .

"George Bush over the past few years has compromised his "Christian faith" by promoting evil and openly supporting wickedness. It is our hope and prayer that he would Repent and turn from such blatant sin. He is not our friend and cannot be trusted. "
Surprise me, and show me that you’re big enough to do what you asked of me. Apologize to me for attacking my integrity.

I’ve got to go now but will check back tomorrow.

37 posted on 02/10/2005 2:09:40 PM PST by elfman2
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To: elfman2

Bill Would Strip 'Sexual Orientation' from PA's Hate Crimes Law
February 10, 2005

By Ed Thomas

(AgapePress) - Legislators in Pennsylvania have introduced a bill designed to remove language from a state "hate crimes" law that was used against Christian protestors in the "Outfest" case in Philadelphia. The arrests of the Christians allowed political opponents of the hate crimes law to say their warnings were ignored.

House Bill 1493 became Act 143 of the Pennsylvania Hate Crimes Law in November 2002 and added "sexual orientation" protection to the law. Legislators and other opponents -- like Diane Gramley of the American Family Association of Pennsylvania -- warned then that the law could be used against the First Amendment rights of Christians, a charge sponsors adamantly denied was the intent. She even recalls one of the measure's supporters accusing opponents of having "an active imagination," and saying the bill was about "thugs, hooligans, murderers, and blood in the street," not about infringing on the rights of Christians.

That was until the pro-homosexual Outfest event in October 2004, when the "ethnic intimidation" charge against the arrested Christians was drawn from Act 143. Gramley says opponents of the measure now have the proof they need -- and 17 of them have co-sponsored House Bill 204.

"[This bill] removes the wording that was added back in November 2002 [when] 'actual or perceived sexual orientation, gender, and gender identity' [were added]," she explains.

State Representative Tom Yewcic was to introduce the new bill today (February 7) at a capital news conference. Gramley calls the lawmakers' move a "bold step in restoring the First Amendment rights of Pennsylvania's Christians."

Five of the Christians arrested at the Outfest event are stilling facing 47 years in prison and fines up to $90,000 each. Those who were arrested committed no violence against homosexuals at the gathering. However, a city prosecutor declared that the bullhorn used by one of the Christians was an "instrument of crime."

http://headlines.agapepress.org/archive/2/72005b.asp


38 posted on 02/10/2005 6:55:33 PM PST by 4lifeandliberty
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To: 4lifeandliberty

bttt


39 posted on 02/10/2005 8:08:08 PM PST by tang-soo (Prophecy of the Seventy Weeks - Read Daniel Chapter 9)
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To: elfman2

The Pensylvania Ethnic Intimidation statute includes sexual orientation as a protected group. Bad law. The opponents of adding this category to the statute were concerned about the very thing that has happened- those who cite scripture in accordance with their religious beliefs can be charged with a crime. That's why this is so serious, and is not a publicity stunt.


40 posted on 02/11/2005 4:39:49 AM PST by almcbean
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To: 4lifeandliberty; almcbean; sportutegrl
I’m unimpressed with what I know of what you’re promoting. It looks you’re your friend Michael Marcavage with the help of the little know film company Enough Said Productions hoped to be arrested as part of a 1st Amendment production and challenge the expansion of the Pennsylvania’s Ethnic Intimidation law. That in itself would be fine, but it looks like you violated several other statutes contributing to your arrest. Those laws are designed to protect others’ freedom to assemble and to keep their demonstrations from turning violent from counter protestors crashing them with bull horns on very emotional issues.

Neither one of us can read minds. Neither of us knows exactly how ideological bias plays into the prosecution, but judging just from what I see on the video, your group needed to be arrested in order to avoid violence after it was evading an order to go to it’s own counter protest area..

I suspect that’s what you all felt you had to do though in order to get arrested and challenge the Ethnic Intimidation law’s new revision. You knew no one was going to arrest you under that law just for planning your own demonstration and just for speaking your mind in a civilized way, so you had to push the boundaries on other laws, creating a dangerous or at least disruptive situation in your opponents’ demonstration for a chance to have that charge include.

After that it looks like your group went over the line that separates activism from fraud and is now betraying the faith it claims to promote. You initiated a media campaign that misrepresents yourselves as victims in an attack on Christianity with press releases and website headlines like
- The Criminalization of Christianity,
- Christians Face 47 Years In Prison. Because Philly Judge Calls Bible Verses 'Fighting Words',
- Eleven Christians Arrested, Jailed, and Charged Under Hate Crimes Legislation,
- Hateful Christianity?, and
- 47 Years in Prison for Preaching? In America?

All are exaggerations or misrepresentations by omission. Truth requires “the whole truth, and nothing but the truth”. Anything less that intentionally leaves a false impression is a lie, just like Clinton’s “technically accurate” denial of sex. Your group is using tactics abhorrent to the faith for which you claim to work. Marcavage is hitting the media circuit and promoting letter writing campaigns that get good people worked up over lies.

You joined FR so that you could “bear false witness”, misleading good Freepers like almcbean and others into posting absurdities like “Those who were citing scripture were held for trial” without any reference to crashing an opposition protest or disobeying orders to return to the couterprotest area. You’ve got Sportutegrl and others claming ” these Christians may serve up to 47 years in prison” without any mention that 47 years was apparently arrived at by adding all the time of all the maximums of all the charges of all the people, probably including those that have had their charges dismissed. Something that would never be done anyway. And you in your last post to me repeat the same lie!

Only God and those much closer to you know your heart, but I can judge what you’ve put out publicly. It don’t think it measures up to what’s honorable or Christian. From all I read, I think you’re using the means to justify the ends and bearing false witness. And if you share the opinions expressed on your group leader and “good friend” Michael Marcavage’s web site, you’re using Free Republic despite having fringe politics that are no more ours than are those of the Clintons.

" This website serves as notice to Christians across this nation that President George Bush over the past few years has compromised his "Christian faith" by promoting evil and openly supporting wickedness. It is our hope and prayer that he would Repent and turn from such blatant sin. He is not our friend and cannot be trusted. "
I don’t like seeing my friends jerked around with lies and led into parroting absurdities to come across as kooks by people that don’t share our goals. Your group may get the charges dismissed, but employing these dishonest tactics is building a ceiling over your growth. Michael Marcavage reminds me of flash in the pan pop stars who compromise their talents with get noticed quick sex shows that poison their future. This will backfire on you.
41 posted on 02/11/2005 7:35:25 AM PST by elfman2
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To: almcbean
" Bad law… not a publicity stunt"

It’s both.

42 posted on 02/11/2005 7:36:34 AM PST by elfman2
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To: elfman2

I watched the entire video of what transpired. The Christians were peaceful and in the right expressing their 1st Ammendment right to free speech.... whether you gays agree with them or not!


43 posted on 02/11/2005 7:39:14 AM PST by dcnd9
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To: 4lifeandliberty

It should!


44 posted on 02/11/2005 7:40:18 AM PST by dcnd9
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To: dcnd9
"whether you gays agree with them or not!"

Intellectually and morally bankrupt accusations like that say more about you than me.

45 posted on 02/11/2005 8:19:44 AM PST by elfman2
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To: elfman2

"without any mention that 47 years was apparently arrived at by adding all the time of all the maximums of all the charges of all the people, probably including those that have had their charges dismissed"

Here's the truth -without any "apparently" or "probably". It is not including all of them or those whose charges are dismissed. I went and looked at the PA Crimes Code. Each individual faces this risk- of up to 47 years- no one is saying they will get the 47. But it's clear that they are looking at serious jail time.

Facts are stubborn things my friend. I'm curious, what is the reason for your anti-Christian bigotry?


46 posted on 02/11/2005 8:19:44 AM PST by almcbean
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To: almcbean
"Each individual faces this risk- of up to 47 years- no one is saying they will get the 47."

When they make it their headline, “Christians Face 47 Years In Prison. Because Philly Judge Calls Bible Verses 'Fighting Words'”, and “47 Years in Prison for Preaching? In America?”, yes, they are saying that it’s real. And that’s enough of an exaggeration to be a lie.

47 posted on 02/11/2005 8:26:23 AM PST by elfman2
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To: almcbean
"I'm curious, what is the reason for your anti-Christian bigotry?"

I’d like you to act like a Christian and either post some specific anti-Christian thing I said or apologize for your arrogant attack on my integrity.

48 posted on 02/11/2005 8:29:44 AM PST by elfman2
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To: elfman2

What about your statement that it included not only adding up all 5 persons charged but also those whose charges have been dismissed. Look at the news reports and press releases by their lawyer. They all say "up to 47" which is true. Even the Gay media reports acknowledge this fact. why can't you?


49 posted on 02/11/2005 8:31:34 AM PST by almcbean
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To: elfman2

What accusations were made?


50 posted on 02/11/2005 8:33:40 AM PST by dcnd9
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