Skip to comments.Hateful Christianity?
Posted on 02/10/2005 10:38:58 AM PST by tang-soo
Prophecy - Signs
Wednesday, February 09, 2005
Jack Kinsella - Omega Letter Editor
Last October, a group of eleven Christians attended a pro-homosexual rally called the 'Outfest' where they displayed banners with biblical messages, sang hymns and preached from the Bible.
Not long after the group began their activity, members of the Pink Angels, which the statement describes as "a militant mob of homosexuals," confronted the protesters and attempted to drown out their message with whistles, while hiding the signs with large sheets of pink Styrofoam.
After the confrontation, the Christians were arrested and taken to jail. None of the homosexuals at the 'Outfest' were charged or arrested.
In all, eight charges were filed against the Christians: criminal conspiracy, possession of instruments of crime, reckless endangerment of another person, ethnic intimidation, riot, failure to disperse, disorderly conduct and obstructing highways.
The ethnic intimidation charge was made possible by Pennsylvanias Ethnic Intimidation and Institutional Vandalism Act that state's hate crimes" law to which the newest "victim" category of "sexual orientation" was recently appended.
The Christian group issued a statement in which they complained, "Despite the fact that our behavior was above reproach and we were attacked by a mob of whistle-blowing, obscenity-screaming God haters, the Christians, and only the Christians, were charged."
The entire incident was videotaped. It clearly showed the defendants cooperating with police as well as documenting the harassment activities of the Pink Angels.
Philadelphia's prosecutor argued before the court that the defendants were "hateful" and referred to preaching the Bible as "fighting words." The judge in the case agreed and ordered them bound for trial.
Four of the Christians arrested were ordered to stand trial on three felony and five misdemeanor charges. If convicted, they could each get a maximum of 47 years in prison. One female teenage protester faces charges in the juvenile justice system.
Charges were dropped against six of the 11 Christians, apparently because they were not seen quoting Scripture on the videotape, since, in this case, quoting the Bible is what constitutes the 'corpus delecti' (body of the crime).
It has since been revealed that homosexual attorneys from the U.S. Justice Department Civil Rights Division were among the 'celebrants' at 'Outfest'. They allegedly 'advised' the police to arrest the Christians and helped them formulate the charges.
Consequently, appeals from the Christian group to the Department of Justice, claiming that their civil rights were violated fell on deaf ears.
What makes this even more egregious is the fact that an article printed in the Philadelphia Gay News, published BEFORE the 'Outfest' festival, announced -- in advance -- that the organizers intended to block Christians from access to the event.
Chuck Volz, senior adviser to Philly Pride Presents, told the publication the Pink Angels security force would carry large signs alongside the Christians to surround them and block their access to OutFest participants.
But Volz also admitted the Christians had a 1st Amendment right to attend, just as they did.
"Given the parameters of the First Amendment, there's no way to keep them out," he said. "I think the gay community should understand that the gay-rights movement has succeeded because people are permitted free speech under the First Amendment. We can't be in a position of denying people the right to compete with us in the marketplace of ideas." Unless, of course, they are Christians.
It is hard to argue against the evidence. I'm not referring to the evidence provided by the videotape that proves the Christians were cooperative with police and non-violent in their demonstration. Evidently, THAT evidence is extremely easy to argue against.
The evidence I am referring to is the evidence that being a Christian in America is ALREADY a crime. We are talking about the United States -- not Russia, Vietnam or Saudi Arabia, here.
What I find fascinating is that, in the days of the Apostles, it was also a crime to accept Jesus, and the charges then were the same as the charges now.
In the days of the Roman Emperors, Christians were charged with what were the equivalent to 'hate crimes' for preaching Jesus as the only way to heaven.
That is the same argument the Bible says will find wide acceptance during the Tribulation Period when the antichrist launches a world-wide effort aimed at exterminating Christians and Jews.
Here's the fascinating part.
Those who claim Christians practice hate speech by claiming Jesus as the only way to heaven don't believe in Jesus anyway.
They don't believe they are accountable to Jesus, and don't believe that accepting Jesus will win them entry into a heaven that they don't believe in either.
So, the Philadelphia Christians are charged with preaching the 'alleged' words of a Person their opponents dispute ever existed, because He said (without ever existing, remember) that, without accepting the 'mythical' Jesus they won't get to go to a place that they say is a myth in the first place!
And THAT activity is so damaging a 'crime' (in America -- and on THIS side of the Tribulation Period), that it merits a potential of 47 years in prison.
It is a vivid foreshadowing of the time that Jesus described as "great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be." (Matthew 24:21)
"So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors. Verily I say unto you, This generation SHALL NOT PASS, till ALL these things be fulfilled." (Matthew 24:33-34)
Excerpted from the Omega Letter Christian Intelligence
Digest, Volume 41, Issue 4
Thats not only frightening, its absurd. The fact that such a tin-foil conspiracy is being promoted should discredit everything else they have to say. The video was edited by the disruptors, but I recall a section where they mention that they were driven away from the stage. At 6:08 what looks like the head cop on the scene says, Look, You were told to go to Walnut Street. Put their gear in the wagon. Youre all under arrest.. The charges include three felony. criminal conspiracy, ethnic intimidation, and riot (Thats where the bullhorn is relevant) and five misdemeanor charges, not praying to gays.
I meant hyperlinks to other COMMENTS BY YOU on Free Republic. . . Free Republic is an excellent source of proof for any argument.
Isn't Jack Kinsella the guy who plowed under his corn to build a baseball field?
Viewed in it's entirety, the video shows very plainly the exchange between the "leader" of the group of Christians was questioning the police almost continually, trying to establish where his group could and could not be. The Christians were surrounded at almost all times by the gay advocates holding up pink plastic signs that were easily large enough, en masse, to obscure any direct line of sight.
Thereby, the Christians could not see where they were, nor where they were being directed to go. Moreover, they were being obviously blockaded every time they attempted to go anywhere. Their tone was never accusatory nor strident - in stark contrast to the gay militants who were pushy, obnoxious and demanding as well as being too easily offended over relatively nothing.
The "transition" into the arrest of the Christian people was abrupt, and came without any prior cautionary statements,i.e."If you don't stop doing this, if you don't do that immediately, if you don't move from here and go there if you don't leave altogether..."
There were no such caveats - it was so close to a complete set up, that any distinction is quite blurry.
There is no justification and no excuse for the arrest, and there is no legally tenable support for their indictment or prosecution. Contending that someone else's query about free speech represents confusion is a cop-out at best, and disingenuous at worst.
Its a shortcut to a rebottle, not evidence, so that I dont have to waste time recomposing the same obvious rebuttals to the same flawed analogies each time one more Freeper is mislead by the same misrepresentation/lie that someones up for 47 years unless we do something. Thats why I showed you the link to that rebuttal in #4. Youre free not to read it and repeat the lie, but thats not very Christian.
They couldnt find their counter protest area? I was born dumb, but it wasnt yesterday.
Because of the editing, I cant tell how abrupt the arrest was. But I think they were pretty sophisticated by filming their march from their designated area and experienced enough to know that a refusal to obey orders to return could result in arrest. And yes, they were very nice on video.
Ray, Was it not?
"ethnic intimidation"? What ethnicity are gays?
It looks like a stretch by the prosecutor, or at least a bad name for one of the 3 felonies. It seems like a bad decision to include it, allowing them to get a toe hold on claims of anti-Christianity. But unlike a few others, I cant read the prosecutor's mind.
Your key mistake is in assuming they were the ones filming their adventure. It was in fact an independent third party that filmed the whole encounter. The crew was there to film bits for a documentary (not ala Michael Moore) and the group of Christians had no say/gave no direction regarding editing of the tape - which was neither cut nor edited, per se. They are far from "professional protestors" as you mischaracterise them, and they had little/nothing to do with where the film crew stood - hardly a sophisticated approach to filming a march. They were not having a march, either, but rather attempting to stay in one place which they were allowed.
Nobody said anything about dumb. As mentioned they were driven from their designated area - clearly evident from the uncut, unedited tape, and they were surrounded by a large vocal throng carrying signs intended to prevent them from being seen - whcih had the result of them also not being able to see especially well. The mere fact that they were accompained by a police officer almost the entire time suggest strongly that they were not in a position of willfully or knowingly breaking any law, or lawful order given to them.
That by itself undermines the entire basis for charges against them - let alone everything else that happened. When you are obviously trying to be cooperative, obedient, and conciliatory, and are working with conflicting information being disseminated in bits and pieces by those in supposed authority - what can be reasonably expected?
Lacking clear standards for too many things and obviously trying their level best to strike a fair balance between doing what they came there to do, and accommodating the requests of law enforcement - they earned the right by their reasonableness to be accorded more fair treatment than they were given.
If they had tried to tell off the cops, get nasty and or mean spirited in the face of the gay activists, then they could be said to have invited some of their own troubles. But that was not the case - they were sticking to a standard of cooperation, conversation, and decent behavior. At no time did they refuse a direct order/request from the police. No police officer has claimed otherwise - on or off the record.
Their designated counter protest area was quickly thronged over with the gay advocates - although it was outside their "protected" festival area - and they proceeded to follow harrass and blockade the Christians at every turn
Maybe. It's been a while since I saw that movie.
But Volz also admitted the Christians had a 1st Amendment right to attend, just as they did.
"Given the parameters of the First Amendment, there's no way to keep them out," he said. "I think the gay community should understand that the gay-rights movement has succeeded because people are permitted free speech under the First Amendment. We can't be in a position of denying people the right to compete with us in the marketplace of ideas."
It's pretty evident that the charges against the Repent America members are trumped up and have no validity when the top legal guy for the perv community freely admits that its a matter of free speech.
ping to article about Philly5
In the otherwise undistinguished movie, "Catch Me If You Can," FBI agent Tom Hanks has ordered his men to surround the fleeing felon, Leonardo DiCaprio. But Hanks denies it and insists DiCaprio is free to leave.
DiCaprio isn't stupid and taunts Hanks: "Yeah, that's right. Just tell me what you want me to see!"
That's what the media does -- it just tells us what they want us to see.
We're supposed to believe Bible-quoting Christians are "hate-mongers" and "felons."
"Therefore as the fire devoureth the stubble, and the flame consumeth the chaff, so their root shall be as rottenness, and their blossom shall go up as dust: because they have cast away the law of the LORD of hosts, and despised the word of the Holy One of Israel." -- Isaiah 5:24
"We are fools for Christ's sake, but ye are wise in Christ; we are weak, but ye are strong; ye are honourable, but we are despised." -- 1 Corinthians 4:10.
"These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world." -- John 16:33
I wonder if you wait for a thread on this topic to come up so you can come and rant on the Christians. Whose side are you on anyway?
They are people who have devoted their life to street ministry. You calling them professional protesters makes me wonder if you have ever been involved in any evangelism at all. There is a big difference between evangelism and protesting. Of course the media is going to use the word with the most negative connotation...if the media called them evangelists some might tend to mentally associate them with Billy or Franklin Graham.
They are in fact each facing possibly up to 47 years in prison each. Google "philly 4 47 years each".
Please do everyone who understands what this is about a favor.
#1 Make an apology to 4lifeandliberty he is one of those you just called " phony Bush hating Christians "
#2 Quit distorting the facts.
#3 Please keep you word. "Im not going to waste more time rearguing this case."
Do you have a tape time on that? I didnt see anything like it.
I see that I was mistaken about who filmed this. I see that Enough Said Productions was in town to film Michael Marcavage and his disruptors, not the demonstrators, as part of a documentary on the First Amendment in America. Theres almost nothing on them on the net unrelated to this film.
Id be surprised if there were not police near by just to protect them. It suggest nothing more and undermines nothing more.
The obviously trying to be cooperative, obedient, and conciliatory is the lest they can do on film to see how far they can keep just this side of the law and appear to be the victims after demonstration crashing. Theyre sophisticated enough to know better than to tell off the cops, especially on tape?
They apparently refused to return to their area, as evident when the cop said he told them to do so and then arrested them.
If their counter protest area was overrun, wed all be cheering for the arrest of the gays. That sounds like and attempt at defense after realizing that they crossed the line by leaving. And if that were on film, or backed up by police, this case would have been thrown out on day 1.
And yes, the leader, Michael Marcavage is not far from "professional protestors" as you mischaracterise them. This is his web site. Sound like "your first mistake" ;^)
Are you in the habit of making wild accusations of others integrity without evidence?
"Please do everyone who understands what this is about a favor. #1 Make an apology to 4lifeandliberty he is one of those you just called " phony Bush hating Christians " "
This if from the leader Michael Marcavages web site .
"George Bush over the past few years has compromised his "Christian faith" by promoting evil and openly supporting wickedness. It is our hope and prayer that he would Repent and turn from such blatant sin. He is not our friend and cannot be trusted. "Surprise me, and show me that youre big enough to do what you asked of me. Apologize to me for attacking my integrity.
Ive got to go now but will check back tomorrow.
Bill Would Strip 'Sexual Orientation' from PA's Hate Crimes Law
February 10, 2005
By Ed Thomas
(AgapePress) - Legislators in Pennsylvania have introduced a bill designed to remove language from a state "hate crimes" law that was used against Christian protestors in the "Outfest" case in Philadelphia. The arrests of the Christians allowed political opponents of the hate crimes law to say their warnings were ignored.
House Bill 1493 became Act 143 of the Pennsylvania Hate Crimes Law in November 2002 and added "sexual orientation" protection to the law. Legislators and other opponents -- like Diane Gramley of the American Family Association of Pennsylvania -- warned then that the law could be used against the First Amendment rights of Christians, a charge sponsors adamantly denied was the intent. She even recalls one of the measure's supporters accusing opponents of having "an active imagination," and saying the bill was about "thugs, hooligans, murderers, and blood in the street," not about infringing on the rights of Christians.
That was until the pro-homosexual Outfest event in October 2004, when the "ethnic intimidation" charge against the arrested Christians was drawn from Act 143. Gramley says opponents of the measure now have the proof they need -- and 17 of them have co-sponsored House Bill 204.
"[This bill] removes the wording that was added back in November 2002 [when] 'actual or perceived sexual orientation, gender, and gender identity' [were added]," she explains.
State Representative Tom Yewcic was to introduce the new bill today (February 7) at a capital news conference. Gramley calls the lawmakers' move a "bold step in restoring the First Amendment rights of Pennsylvania's Christians."
Five of the Christians arrested at the Outfest event are stilling facing 47 years in prison and fines up to $90,000 each. Those who were arrested committed no violence against homosexuals at the gathering. However, a city prosecutor declared that the bullhorn used by one of the Christians was an "instrument of crime."
The Pensylvania Ethnic Intimidation statute includes sexual orientation as a protected group. Bad law. The opponents of adding this category to the statute were concerned about the very thing that has happened- those who cite scripture in accordance with their religious beliefs can be charged with a crime. That's why this is so serious, and is not a publicity stunt.
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