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FairTax.Org HR25
WWW.FAIRTAX.ORG ^ | Last Week | Thomas Leser

Posted on 02/13/2005 10:41:05 AM PST by nsmart

The FairTax is the non-partisan national sales tax proposal that would replace all federal income taxes. These include personal, estate, gift, self-employment, alternative minimum, capital gains, FICA, and corporate and death taxes.

(Excerpt) Read more at WWW.FAIRTAX.ORG ...


TOPICS: Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: consumptiontax; endincometax; fairtax; fairtaxorg; hr25; incometaxes; taxes; taxreform
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To: groanup

Thoreau went to Walden Pond to protest taxes. Today a SWAT team would be sent in, his cabin burned, and he would shoot himself in the back. The papers would applaud the death of the "White Separatist".

I hate the federal boot on my individual neck. If HR25 passes, taxes again become voluntary. States collect them. If I get mad, I can purchase only used goods.


21 posted on 02/13/2005 11:00:48 AM PST by nsmart
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To: truth_seeker
I say the sales tax rate is 30%... it will add 30% onto the shelf price. Of course, with no income/payroll tax system, prices will drop by that much before the sales tax is added... making prices stay about the same.

Another way to look at the rate is percent of spending absorbed by the tax. That rate is 23%... Buy an item for $77 and there's 23 tax ... 23/100 = 23%... this is how income tax is figured - I use this rate to compare to today's system...

Hope that helps

22 posted on 02/13/2005 11:04:54 AM PST by Principled
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To: Always Right

Taking out the same amount of tax will not have a dramatic impact on prices.

Removing the tax system collecting those income and payroll taxes from the backs of business removes the overhead costs associated with those businesses as well. That provides substantial potential for cost savings and reduction of prices out of competition for the consumer/investor's dollar.

I hate the over the top phoney claims the Fair Tax people have been making for years. Their analysis makes global warming scientist look honest.

Strange I could make a rather similar statement about those that deliberately obscure how the NRST actually impacts business overhead costs by reducing them not only by the amount of tax but the overhead associated with tax avoidence & planning, accounting and reporting, as well as the costs that government imposes on a business in audits, litigation & legal fees when the business person's crystal ball is as cloudy as the IRS and the IRS chooses to make an example of them, not to mention the fines, and penalties assessed when the IRS' tax court takes its final cut out of the hide of the hapless victim.

And that does not even begin to account for the loss of sales revenue from lowered demand for products due to higher pricing required as a consequence of the the above.

23 posted on 02/13/2005 11:06:01 AM PST by ancient_geezer (Don't reform it, Replace it!!)
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To: Always Right
First of all corporations don't pay income tax. It is past along to the consumer in tie price of the goods or service provided. So when the business no longer have to pay the income tax the cost of doing business goes down.

The argument now is, "Now the greedy corporations will want to keep all that profit". What you are not considering is the "free market". Other people who also provide the same goods/service will lower their price to gain market share, in effect, a price war. Hence lower prices to the consumer.

It's free market economics pure and simple. Market competition creates lower costs for the consumer.

Chris
24 posted on 02/13/2005 11:08:26 AM PST by cdtracing
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To: Principled
What is nutty?

Price going down 30-40% the first year is purs bullcrap. You would have to save some 3 Trillion dollars for that to happen. It is pure quackery at its finest.

25 posted on 02/13/2005 11:09:34 AM PST by Always Right
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To: ancient_geezer

Imagine a phi beta kappa who graduates at the top of his class. Imagine the possibilities.. he could start a business that employs 200 people, or become a scientist who discovers a renewable energy source or a doctor who cures some dread disease...

but instead, he becomes a tax attorney.. and produces...

NOTHING.. what a sad loss of human capital!


26 posted on 02/13/2005 11:09:44 AM PST by nsmart
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To: Always Right

A tax must be broad to be fair. We know Reagan gave us a broad tax and the economy flourished.. but what happened after should show us just how ill conceived a flat tax idea is. It won't stay flat and as long as we keep records and the fed taxes us individually, we are not free.

The fair tax sends everyone a pre-bate up to the cost of living taxes each month.


27 posted on 02/13/2005 11:12:56 AM PST by nsmart
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To: Always Right
Price going down 30-40% the first year is purs bullcrap.

Who is saying that?

28 posted on 02/13/2005 11:13:00 AM PST by Principled
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To: nsmart

I would love to see a tax system like this pass. I own a small home based business and pay so much tax I can hardly stay in business. I pay cash for everything (used) because I never know what the next 6 months earnings might be so I have to keep my dept low. I'm tired of paying a higher % of tax than folks like John Kerry while he travels around in his jet I'm driving a 10 yr old car and working 10 hour days.


29 posted on 02/13/2005 11:13:25 AM PST by mammer
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To: Principled
Did you know that hidden income taxes and the cost of complying with them currently make up 20 percent or more percent of all retail prices?

Actually I wish you could get your numbers straight. First they say $300 billion, which is already on the high side, then they go to this ridiculous 20% number, which is a magnitude higher than the 300 billion number. On top of that you won't even be saving that 300 billion because there will be similar compliance costs with the sales tax regardless of what the nutty professors say. The NRST/Fari Tax hype is based mostly on fraudlant analysis.

30 posted on 02/13/2005 11:13:46 AM PST by Always Right
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To: cdtracing
It's free market economics pure and simple. Market competition creates lower costs for the consumer.

The last time I checked we already have a free market and market forces keeping our prices low. This is really getting stupid.

31 posted on 02/13/2005 11:16:06 AM PST by Always Right
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To: maine-iac7
The reason the "Dim's" are against it is because most of them congress critters don't pay the same tax rates us peons do. With all the corporate investments and tax loop holes they written for them selves they would now be paying their share of the taxes instead of the paltry amount they pay now.

Chris
32 posted on 02/13/2005 11:16:52 AM PST by cdtracing
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To: Always Right

My $300 billion is cost of compliance.. not income tax. Its the H&R Blocks and the Corp tax attorneys.. trying NOT to pay taxes. Its the decisions we make to avoid taxes, too.


33 posted on 02/13/2005 11:16:56 AM PST by nsmart
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To: Always Right
And your analysis? Ahem... you don't have one?

Oh.. well I guess I'll go with PhDs and LLMs in taxation over an internet message from someone who... doesn't even HAVE an analysis....

If you would like to put forth an analysis, then you could make some headway... but to simply call experts wrong because you... well, why do you think they're wrong?! Do you HAVE anything indicating an error - or just your li'l ole opinion?

34 posted on 02/13/2005 11:17:27 AM PST by Principled
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To: groanup
So what is your analysis?

I gave you my anaylsis. You suck 2.5 Trillion out of the economy, it will have the same net effect on prices no matter what your method of suxation is. Fair tax people create lower prices out of thin air. It is all phoney,

35 posted on 02/13/2005 11:17:49 AM PST by Always Right
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To: Always Right
The last time I checked we already have a free market and market forces keeping our prices low.

Right - always... and if the entire economy could strip out 25% of it's operating costs, prices would adjust to this new level due to the very same competition that keeps prices low - you know the system you recently checked...

36 posted on 02/13/2005 11:19:33 AM PST by Principled
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To: Principled
I say the sales tax rate is 30%... it will add 30% onto the shelf price. Of course, with no income/payroll tax system, prices will drop by that much before the sales tax is added... making prices stay about the same.

But the nutty professor is saying prices will drop 20-30%.

37 posted on 02/13/2005 11:20:32 AM PST by Always Right
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To: Always Right
The NRST/Fair Tax hype is based mostly on fraudulent analysis

Again, the Fair Tax organization along with economists and economic departments of universities have done analysis. Where is your analysis?

38 posted on 02/13/2005 11:20:49 AM PST by groanup (http://www.fairtax.org)
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To: Always Right

"Our system freed the individual genius of man. We allocate resources not by goverment decision but by the millions of decisions customers make when they go into the market place. If something seems too high-priced, we buy something else. So resources are steered toward those things people want most at the price they are willing to pay." Reagan


39 posted on 02/13/2005 11:21:00 AM PST by nsmart
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To: Always Right
Fair tax people create lower prices

No they don't. Prices will be the SAME after the fair tax... who told you after tax prices would be lower?

40 posted on 02/13/2005 11:21:03 AM PST by Principled
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