Posted on 02/15/2005 2:59:57 AM PST by Timeout
MORE VOTING GAPS FOUND
Other communities' records show disparity
By GREG J. BOROWSKI and TOM KERTSCHER
An independent firm has found flaws in the Nov. 2 election records of many Wisconsin communities that echo some of the problems identified by the Journal Sentinel in Milwaukee.
Wisconsin Voter Lists, which is updating the files it uses to sell voter lists to political candidates, found several communities with significant gaps between the number of people listed as having voted and the number of votes cast in the presidential contest.
The firm, which has collected data from more than 50 Wisconsin communities so far, shared its information with the Journal Sentinel, which first identified a 7,000-vote gap in Milwaukee. Several communities showed gaps that, on a percentage basis, rivaled the city's disparity.
That includes Madison, Fond du Lac, Neenah and Eau Claire. Typically, though, gaps were much smaller and many communities showed no gaps at all, underscoring the importance of a vote-to-voter match in even high-turnout elections.
In some cases, election officials said the problem was due to an incomplete voter list they sent to the firm. In others, though, they were surprised to learn that their voter records had problems - including discrepancies that, in a few spots, listed more voters than votes.
In Neenah's computer files, the firm found 12,637 people listed as having voted, but 13,226 ballots cast in the presidential race. That means 95.5% of the votes were accounted for.
The city provided the data before discovering that a computer glitch caused more than 500 voter histories not to be updated, City Clerk Patty Peterson said. That alone might explain the gap of nearly 600 reported by the firm because the gap is now fewer than 10, she said.
"We figure that our records are pretty cleaned up," Peterson said.
Last month, the Journal Sentinel identified the 7,000-vote gap in Milwaukee as it reviewed records from the Nov. 2 election. The gap represents the difference between the number of people listed by the city as having voted (269,212) and the total number of ballots cast (277,535).
That difference is more than 8,300, but the gap is closer to 7,000, because the city has 1,300 same-day registration cards it could not process. Officials blamed the gap on problems in entering polling place logbook information into the city computer system.
The newspaper, however, has found similar gaps in the logbooks themselves, which critics say is more troubling.
RECORD-KEEPING WOES
The review of other Wisconsin cities reflects the first sort of discrepancy - one related to how well voters are recorded in the computer in the weeks after the election.
It cannot be used to determine whether any polling-place discrepancies exist in any of the communities, though calls to many local election officials tend to discount that likelihood.
The information was compiled by the Michigan-based firm Practical Political Consulting, which operates in the state as Wisconsin Voter Lists. In a similar fashion to what the Journal Sentinel did with Milwaukee's vote totals, it compared the number of names listed as voting in each community to the number of votes counted in the Nov. 2 presidential race.
For Milwaukee, it showed 267,344 people voting and 276,921 votes cast, or 96.5% of the votes accounted for in the city's own computer system.
The numbers are slightly different than those used by the newspaper, because the firm deleted obvious duplications among voter listings and used the total of votes in the presidential race. That is typically 1% or so less than the total number of voters on election day, because a handful do not vote in the presidential race.
"It was the biggest election the state's ever had," said Alan Fox, an official with the firm. "It was really very overwhelming. Clerks' offices often don't have a lot of technical know-how or a lot of bodies to do all the work when it hits them."
Five communities - as small as Hales Corners and as large as Appleton - came out at 100%. Twenty-two more were above 99%, with 13 others falling within 101%, most likely because votes in the presidential race - not total ballots cast - were used as the measuring stick by the firm.
Other communities fell further out of that range. Madison and Fond du Lac, for instance, both showed 96.7% of their votes accounted for.
Neenah had a lower percentage than Milwaukee, at 95.5%. So did Mosinee (96.3%) and Eau Claire (92.5%).
The Journal Sentinel contacted some of the communities listed by the firm as having some of the largest gaps. In most cases, local election clerks reported that the actual gaps are much smaller, saying the firm got data before it was fully processed, or computer glitches in generating reports for the firm created artificial gaps.
In fact, two communities - Bayside and Waupun - said their figures reconcile exactly and officials could only speculate on why the consulting firm's figures varied.
For Waupun, the firm's analysis showed 3,948 people listed as voting, but 4,329 ballots cast in the presidential race, or 91.2% of ballots accounted for.
In Bayside, the trend was in the other direction. Bayside was listed as having 2,919 people who voted but only 2,885 ballots cast, which came out at 101.2% when measured in terms of votes accounted for.
But the actual figures in Bayside were an exact match: 2,998 voters and 2,998 ballots cast - said Village Clerk Barb Jobs. She said the consulting firm apparently failed to count the 79 people who voted in the Ozaukee County portion of the village, which would have given the firm the same number of voters as recorded by the village.
Other communities discovered gaps they didn't know existed.
In the Village of Howard, Deputy Clerk Michelle Olman found a gap of more than 200 in her figures after responding to a request from the Journal Sentinel. She said her figures show that 8,942 people voted but only 8,729 ballots were cast.
Olman said she then discovered a problem with the village's computer system. When some newly registered voters were entered into the voter database, the system automatically recorded that person as having voted in the November election, she said.
In Mosinee, the actual gap was much smaller than what was recorded by the firm, said City Clerk Bruce Jamroz.
The consulting firm said records provided by Mosinee have 2,157 voters listed, while 2,239 ballots were cast for president, putting the community at 96.3%.
But in reality, the gap was only four - 2,247 people voted and 2,251 ballots overall were cast, Jamroz said.
Jamroz and other clerks said they are constantly adding and correcting data from the November election, so the figures given to the consulting firm at any point in recent weeks are likely to differ from what the final figures show.
In Eau Claire, the review found that the city listed 34,720 voters in the November election, but 37,525 ballots were cast, putting the city at 92.5% of the votes accounted for.
Carol Schumacher, the city's election specialist, said the city is still trying to reconcile its figures, but that it has narrowed the gap reported by the consulting firm. Problems occurred because of an estimated 8,000 to 10,000 voters who changed their addresses within the city since the 2000 presidential election.
Schumacher said that when city employees enter data for new voters in the city's voter database, they are automatically prompted to designate whether those voters should be given credit for casting a ballot Nov. 2. But she said the system does not do such prompts when data is entered for voters who changed addresses within the city, which means employees must remember to give the voter credit for voting.
In Madison, the city counts of the number of ballots cast, but doesn't routinely try to reconcile that figure with the number of people recorded as having voted in an election. The firm found in Madison 133,598 people were recorded as having voted but 138,204 ballots were cast, a difference of more than 4,600. The actual number of ballots cast overall was 138,452, but the city doesn't have a figure for the number of people recorded as having voted, Deputy City Clerk Sharon Christensen said.
In Eau Claire, the review found that the city listed 34,720 voters in the November election, but 37,525 ballots were cast, putting the city at 92.5% of the votes accounted for. [2,805 more ballots than voters]As an explanation for discrepancies in the 2004 election, wouldn't this excuse apply only to address changes entered SINCE November 2nd?Carol Schumacher, the city's election specialist, said the city is still trying to reconcile its figures, but that it has narrowed the gap reported by the consulting firm. Problems occurred because of an estimated 8,000 to 10,000 voters who changed their addresses within the city since the 2000 presidential election.
Schumacher said that when city employees enter data for new voters in the city's voter database, they are automatically prompted to designate whether those voters should be given credit for casting a ballot Nov. 2. But she said the system does not do such prompts when data is entered for voters who changed addresses within the city, which means employees must remember to give the voter credit for voting.
Is it likely that 2800 people have changed their voter registration address just since November? Seems high to me.
Vote Fraud Ping
Is that 34,720 registered voters or 34,720 people over 18 years old? Wisconsin has same day registration, just like Minnesota.
No.
"34,720 voters" = number of people they show actually voted in Nov.
"What made Milwaukee famous has made a loser out of me."
A national voter ID swipe card would put all this to rest once and for all.
I'm beginning to warm to the idea of a national i.d.
In WI they need to at least require some kind of i.d., but that alone won't solve the serious problems there. They've got MAJOR flaws and vulnerabilities in their system.
I once liked the idea of swipe cards. But I'm afraid that might make fraud even easier....i.e, just go around some neighborhoods paying people to hand over their card for election day.
Not if the swipe card brought up a photo ID on the screen. Wouldn't be perfect, but would work wonders IMO.
All I can say is it's past time to expand the fed probe beyond Milwaukee and to start a full statewide audit.
Didn't the legislature approve a statewide audit last week?
How are these elections run? By elected officials? Has anyone done a study to see if there's a correlation between voter discrepancies (what a euphemism) and the party running the precinct?
Great post. There is no reason for a single discrepancy. We need to 12 sigma the foundation of freedom.
Eau Claire is a huge college town.
Yeah, I thought of that. I'd still like to know HOW MANY address changes have been inputted SINCE the Nov. votes were recorded.
The official makes it sound like there are thousands of them. But, as an explanation for the problem at hand, the only ones that would matter are the address changes keyed in after a particular voter had been tabbed as voting in the election...and then only the changes where the worker didn't update the record to show the vote. I doubt there were more than 2,000 of those.
A sixty percent voter turn out would mean there is potentially a 12,000 vote fraud just in the one county.
There are approximately 10,000 full time students at the college, approximately 62,000 residents. College students are moving all the time, and most of these students are not from the area. I wouldn't be suprised one bit if this was another Marquette University situation.
Last I heard, it was still in committee, but I could be mistaken; I've been following the Senate's cave on TABOR/property tax freeze a bit more closely.
I just don't think that's realistic.
How many college students do you really think worry about recording their change of address at the voter registration office? The numbers might pick up right before an election, but I doubt very seriously that the numbers are very high in the lull immediately following a big election.
Please see tagline.
They don't have to record their change of address at a voter registration office, we have same day voting, show up, register and vote. This is the reason the laws need to be changed.
And likewise, how many who may have moved are going to bother to removed their names from the old register. Or how many voted at school, then went home and voted? I'm not saying it all can be attributed to this, but I'll bet a good chunk of it is.
I really, really don't mean to be hard headed. But I think you've overlooked my key point.
She is trying to explain why there are more ballots than voters. She blames it on a computer glitch: when someone who has ALREADY been credited with voting in Nov. comes in and changes their address, the computer doesn't automatically prompt the office worker to bring forward the credit for voting.
She is saying this would have happened 2,800 times SINCE the the time city keyed in all the voters in November...14 weeks at most. And it assumes the city worker made the mistake in EVERY case.
That just seems implausible to me.
Now, you raise an interesting question. Were the changes of address done at the polls? Perhaps. But then, wouldn't the office workers have keyed the change first and THEN credited the vote? If so, the glitch wouldn't apply.
Any word on how that FBI probe is going?
No word (and it is a "joint task force" between the local DemonRAT DA, E. Michael "McCan't" McCann, and the feds, spearheaded by Mr. Hang'em High, Steve Biskupic).
I suspect the first thing we may hear from the probe might be the **breaking news** that they've siezed all the records and data systems. How delicious that will be!
While we're on the stolen Wisconsin election, there's a preliminary hearing today for the 5 DemonRATs charged in slashing the GOP vans' tires in Milwaukee on November 2, as well as a primary election for state superintendent (and a scattering of local primaries).
"And it assumes the city worker made the mistake in EVERY case."
Ever meet any city workers (aside from police/fire)? Their incompetence can be downright scary at times.
And so would inked fingers... :)
I think that it's time that the specifics of voting become a federal issue. Right now, the details are left up to the States.
Obviously, the States are not handling the details very well. There is even interstate voting ocurring (FL/NY, etc).
I think there needs to be a national standard for voting, based upon thumbprints/fingerprint/ or iris print AND voting card. (Thumbprint validates that you are the user of the card.
Finally, borders do not need to present voting problems any more. There is no need for an absentee ballot if one can make it to an electronic voting booth. It won't matter what State one is in -- people would be presented with the ballot of the State they are registered in.
I went over to Boots/Sabers...saw your comment.
What did Sykes have to say? Has he ever brought up the "all nighter"?
Or, it could mean that 4.7% of the ballots are unexplained.
Dawn of the Democrat Dead Voters.
I do believe he did yesterday (forgot to tell you; sorry). He still is on the MIA Artison (harped on her again today).
-PJ
Madison (with the main UW campus) and Eau Claire (with UW-Eau Claire) have significant college populations. Madison has a long, lieberal history (it's known as Madistan around these parts), and Eau Claire is but a short drive from Minneapolis-St. Paul. Fond du Lac and Neenah are a bit more puzzling.
The whole Fox valley is interesting. They are spread out and growing, but the entire area bears watching. Lot's of opportunity for corruption in that area. Think of it as the midwest's east coast.
Good grief!
Inked fingers wouldn't help with those who vote ahead of time.
I think we also need to watch the small towns & villages too.
Were I’m at the pop. is 1100 had over 650 total votes for pres. and went dem.
I don’t know what the math for pop. vs voters. But sounds to high to me.
unfortunately, so am I ......
Did you hear Charlie Sykes show this morning?
I understand the reporter from the JS was on and he talked about the "crowd" at city hall the night b/4 the election.
Missed it; sorry.
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