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Rapture" Rapture
The Daily Standard ^ | 02/14/2005 | John Hinderaker

Posted on 02/15/2005 3:51:01 AM PST by AliVeritas

ONE OF LIBERALS' chief motivations these days is fear of the religious right. Ask people on the left to explain their loathing of President Bush or the Republican party, and the answer often comes around to Jerry Falwell, evangelicals, theocracy, and so on. The left's fear of conservative Christians is fed by a steady stream of news stories. Some are accurate: religious conservatives oppose gay marriage. Some are fanciful: Sponge Bob Square Pants has been accused of being a homosexual. And some are simply false.

The left's most recent salvo against the religious right was launched by an obscure online environmentalist journal called Grist. In October of last year, Grist published an article titled "The Godly Must Be Crazy," the thesis of which was that conservative Christians are deliberately bent on despoiling the environment:

Many Christian fundamentalists feel that concern for the future of our planet is irrelevant, because it has no future. They believe we are living in the End Time, when the son of God will return, the righteous will enter heaven, and sinners will be condemned to eternal hellfire. They may also believe, along with millions of other Christian fundamentalists, that environmental destruction is not only to be disregarded but actually welcomed--even hastened--as a sign of the coming Apocalypse.

We are not talking about a handful of fringe lawmakers who hold or are beholden to these beliefs. The 231 legislators (all but five of them Republicans) who received an average 80 percent approval rating or higher from the leading religious-right organizations make up more than 40 percent of the U.S. Congress.

(Excerpt) Read more at weeklystandard.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Editorial; Philosophy
KEYWORDS: christians; environment; liberalmyths; rapture; republicans; secondcoming
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1 posted on 02/15/2005 3:51:01 AM PST by AliVeritas
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To: AliVeritas

Don't believe the rumors about the Republican "death camps." They're only re-education centers. A couple of liberals from Boston had minor heart attacks because their faith was too weak during the snake handling exercise. (The snakes were defanged anyway.)


2 posted on 02/15/2005 3:57:58 AM PST by NaughtiusMaximus (Progressives are just liberals with an Earl Scheib paintjob.)
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To: AliVeritas
All of this has happened without a single conservative, inside or outside of government, having ever drawn any connection, express or implied, between the supposed imminence of the Second Coming and any aspect of environmental policy. Which leaves one wondering which side of the political debate has substituted faith for reason.

I'm not wondering at all. The Godless Left and the liberal religionists traffic in lies all the time. It is a blatant and obvious lie to suggest that Christians disregard their biblical obligation to be good stewards of what God has provided - included the environment. It is completely sensible and congruent to believe in conservation and stewardship, will still acknowledging that there will one day be a new earth.

The need to demonize believers on all levels isn't a surprise, however. "Do no marvel, brethren, that the world hates you." - I John 3:13

3 posted on 02/15/2005 4:04:29 AM PST by anniegetyourgun
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To: anniegetyourgun

I dunno. I've actually come across extremely fundamentalist types who figure it's not worth sending their kids to college because Jesus will come before the kids can graduate. It doesn't take much to extrapolate this attitude to a kind of nihilism which sees any planning for the future to be a fruitless exercise.


4 posted on 02/15/2005 4:09:31 AM PST by Junior (FABRICATI DIEM, PVNC)
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To: AliVeritas



THE COUNTRY IS BEING TAKEN OVER BY THE CHRISTIAN RIGHT!

They have values and morals and they believe in Jesus!



5 posted on 02/15/2005 4:14:37 AM PST by LauraleeBraswell
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To: AliVeritas
They may also believe, along with millions of other Christian fundamentalists, that environmental destruction is not only to be disregarded but actually welcomed--even hastened--as a sign of the coming Apocalypse.

Thats a really stupid thing to say. We have been put here to take care of the earth-not worship it, of course. Anyone who defines their sole purpose in life with regards to the end times is not living in the present. God has his own schedule to keep.

6 posted on 02/15/2005 4:17:55 AM PST by shekkian
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To: AliVeritas

This article represents the schizophrenia of the secular Left.

I reject the notion of that the Church is to be "raptured" away. It is not found in Scripture nor did any segment of the Church embrace or teach that as a doctrine until the Irvingites in Scotland in the early/mid-19th Century.

I fall into the Reconstructionist-Postmillennial camp that embraces the Biblical view that Christians are to be salt and light in our respective cultures; that all nations are to be discipled to Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior; as Prophet, Priest and King.

The secularists schizophrenia is just this: whether Christians are advocating the escapist doctrine of the rapture and the ceding of culture to the humanists; or are promoting God's Law as the standard for nations and bringing all spheres of life under the dominion of Jesus Christ - family, state, church, education, arts, environment, etc. ---- either position infuriates the secularists because of their guilty knowledge of God. They don't want any reminder they are accountable to God - whether by law/sanctions in this life or after the tribulation of the millenarians.

Secularists don't want Christians uninvolved in society; yet they don't want them involved or influencing society - they don't want them period.

http://www.americanvision.org/

http://www.chalcedon.edu/

http://www.NatReformAssn.org/

http://www.cmfnow.com/

http://www.credenda.org/

http://forerunner.com/forerunner/forerunner.html

http://www.postmillennialism.com/main.html


7 posted on 02/15/2005 4:29:36 AM PST by PresbyRev (All truth is God's truth: post tenebras, Lux!)
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To: Junior

A very tiny fraction of people in this country....and most are not Christians, but rather, followers of some kind of cult or organization that the world puts under the "Christian" banner.


8 posted on 02/15/2005 4:31:09 AM PST by anniegetyourgun
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To: Junior

When I was at University the thinking was that we should not have children or educate the ones we had because "We know for certain that some lovely day, someone will set the spark off and we will all be blown away." (Tom Lehr).

In fact, I had young men suggest it was no use saving myself for marriage because The Bomb was imminent ...


9 posted on 02/15/2005 4:36:04 AM PST by KateatRFM
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To: AliVeritas
They may also believe, along with millions of other Christian fundamentalists, that environmental destruction is not only to be disregarded but actually welcomed--even hastened--as a sign of the coming Apocalypse.

Such is certainly no act of love for our neighbor as Christ has commanded us to live. Anyone who would willfully hasten the Apocalypse is more than likely to burn in hell.

Our purpose in God's creation was stated up front, in Genesis 2:15. See tagline.

Note: that doesn't mean PRESERVE the environment, quite the contrary. It means that our role is to keep it healthy and productive in its total sense, including our ability to respond to the occasional disaster. It is a task that current policy doesn't even pretend to address.

10 posted on 02/15/2005 4:36:42 AM PST by Carry_Okie (And the Lord God took the man and put him in the Garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.)
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To: AliVeritas

There is no evangelical plot against the environment. Everyone know the real plot is to kill Muslims, rebuild the Temple as fast as possible so Jesus will come. How dumb can the Left be to not see our real purpose.(/sarcasm)


11 posted on 02/15/2005 4:39:41 AM PST by foolscap
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To: PresbyRev

You have some links to pretty weird websites. To offer $5000 to anyone who can prove the Bible condemns gay marriage could only come from someone who has never read Romans 1. That such a one could really call themselves a Christian would be pretty difficult.


12 posted on 02/15/2005 4:42:11 AM PST by wastoute
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To: anniegetyourgun
They believe in Jesus and His teachings, so technically, they're Christians. They may not be your kind of Christians, but they are Christians nonetheless.
13 posted on 02/15/2005 4:45:17 AM PST by Junior (FABRICATI DIEM, PVNC)
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To: wastoute

The website http://www.americanvision.org/ is not promoting the view that the Bible doesn't condemn 'gay marriage.'

Far from it. The link to the article is below.

http://www.americanvision.org/articlearchive/02-14-05.asp


14 posted on 02/15/2005 4:46:36 AM PST by PresbyRev (All truth is God's truth: post tenebras, Lux!)
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To: AliVeritas

Actually I think we are well served to observe the prophecies of the Bible, and Nostradamus.

To some extent I think some of Nostradamus' predictions could be equated to chance or desire to fulfill a prophecy rather than the acuracy of the prediction, but it is still worth noting, if only for amusement.

I can tell you this much, if M Abbas dies soon, you will see these believers absolutely freak out. There are several other Mabus candidates (Nostradamus gave us Napolon Roy -Napolean King and Hister - Hitler). Saddam, Usama B, MAsonBUSh, and others are also prime candidates. If you play with the letters enough they will fit, which is also interesting in itself.

I think Bush is an unlikely Mabus candidate... but I'm keeping my eye on him, just in case!


15 posted on 02/15/2005 4:47:04 AM PST by Reform4Bush
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To: Junior

Just because one is standing in a garage, doesn't make one a car. When one re-makes Jesus into something He never claimed (good stewardship of environment, children, resources, our body, etc.), it is a different Jesus that they serve. Hence, idolatry.


16 posted on 02/15/2005 4:51:11 AM PST by anniegetyourgun
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To: anniegetyourgun

I wonder if you could say the same about Moslems...


17 posted on 02/15/2005 4:52:39 AM PST by Junior (FABRICATI DIEM, PVNC)
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To: Junior

Muslims are not Christians, having rejected the diety of Jesus.


18 posted on 02/15/2005 4:53:27 AM PST by anniegetyourgun
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To: AliVeritas
They may also believe, along with millions of other Christian fundamentalists, that environmental destruction is not only to be disregarded but actually welcomed--even hastened--as a sign of the coming Apocalypse.

Yeah, but there's also a doctrine called 'stewardship', which prohibits the misuse of resources. These mouth breathing libs don't have a clue.

19 posted on 02/15/2005 4:57:02 AM PST by ovrtaxt (McClellan: Do away with daily press briefings! Come straight to the New Media!)
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To: PresbyRev

Ah, a fellow postmillenialist!


20 posted on 02/15/2005 4:58:33 AM PST by ovrtaxt (McClellan: Do away with daily press briefings! Come straight to the New Media!)
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To: PresbyRev
Various positions on end times are nonessentials of the Christian faith, and certainly not worth dividing over. No believer, regardless of their position on the matter, should disregard that which God has given us.

This article points out (as you do) the REAL enemy here - and it is the lies perpetuated by the Left. Such lies are intended to demonize and set up hatred toward Christians....paving the way for persecution. Since we don't war against flesh and blood, we must all recognize who is behind such lies...the father of lies himself.

21 posted on 02/15/2005 5:06:05 AM PST by anniegetyourgun
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To: anniegetyourgun
...we must all recognize who is behind such lies...the father of lies himself.

This is the crux of the matter,and to me, the only matter.

As far as Christians not caring about the "environment", I'm a Christian who has many Christian friends in my life, and everyone of them are true conservationists, not "environmentalists".

FMCDH(BITS)

22 posted on 02/15/2005 5:24:30 AM PST by nothingnew (There are two kinds of people; Decent and indecent.)
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To: AliVeritas; foolscap; anniegetyourgun; Junior; PresbyRev; Reform4Bush
Exactly what are your thoughts on this article, Aliveritas?

You have posted quite a few articles since you joined FR. However, you don't seem to be open to give your own opinion on anything. I wonder, why don't you ever really say anything?

And can you please tell us why you chose the quite symbolic screen name "Aliveritas"? C'mon, let's hear from you. Don't be shy.

"Ali was the first of the 12 infallible Imams (leaders) appointed by the Prophet, on Allah’s instructions, to succeed him to lead the Muslims."

"Veritas" = truth (Latin)

23 posted on 02/15/2005 5:25:01 AM PST by LurkedLongEnough (Delight the few.)
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To: nothingnew

Ditto.


24 posted on 02/15/2005 5:26:07 AM PST by anniegetyourgun
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To: Carry_Okie

Exactly right. God said Adam was to have dominion over all the earth, including the part outside the Garden that hadn't yet been "subdued."


25 posted on 02/15/2005 5:26:27 AM PST by LS (CNN is the Amtrak of news (there is no c in Amtrak and no truth in MSM news))
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To: LurkedLongEnough

So glad you asked that question. I'll not hold my breath for an answer, however.....


26 posted on 02/15/2005 5:27:10 AM PST by anniegetyourgun
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To: Junior

"...extremely fundamentalist types who figure it's not worth sending their kids to college..."

There is probably the same percentage of those types on the right as there are Howard Dean types on the left.

Aberrations - that's all.


27 posted on 02/15/2005 5:53:30 AM PST by CLS
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To: Junior

Exactly. This isn't as half-cocked as some here at FR imagine, based on my experiences.


28 posted on 02/15/2005 5:55:33 AM PST by GraniteStateConservative (...He had committed no crime against America so I did not bring him here...-- Worst.President.Ever.)
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To: ovrtaxt; Junior

I've seen Gen 1:26 (And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.) used to justify opposition by Christian conservatives to environmentalism.


29 posted on 02/15/2005 6:01:00 AM PST by GraniteStateConservative (...He had committed no crime against America so I did not bring him here...-- Worst.President.Ever.)
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To: AliVeritas
Bring it on! I've already got the soundtrack...


30 posted on 02/15/2005 6:05:09 AM PST by Tijeras_Slim
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To: Junior
It doesn't take much to extrapolate this attitude to a kind of nihilism which sees any planning for the future to be a fruitless exercise.

The whole concept of predestination leads directly to that kind of nihilism. Belief in the Rapture is incompatible with human life - it would fit better as part of certain fashionable creed that leads young men to fly jets into skyscrapers. I'm amazed at these gigantic posts on FR of articles by pseudo-philosophers whose arguments boil down to: "Lay down and die - it doesn't make any difference, anyway."

That said, the Left is blowing this issue way out of proportion yet again. They were making the exact same charges against James Watt and the Reagan Administration, twenty years ago.

31 posted on 02/15/2005 6:08:44 AM PST by Mr. Jeeves
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To: AliVeritas

If they want to discuss religion then maybe we can chat about the possiblity of a connection between "The Party of Lies" and "The Father of Lies". If they weren't delusional paranoids before, a discussion along those lines ought to put them right over the top.


32 posted on 02/15/2005 6:10:07 AM PST by katana
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To: Junior

"I've actually come across extremely fundamentalist types who figure it's not worth sending their kids to college because Jesus will come before the kids can graduate. It doesn't take much to extrapolate this attitude to a kind of nihilism which sees any planning for the future to be a fruitless exercise."


Yep, and it is Written that GOD will send some strong delusions that they should believe a lie:

Pretty strong medicine.

Interesting we are also told to prepare for "WAR" -- For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

Got to wonder how one will stand and oppose if one is not around to stand?


33 posted on 02/15/2005 6:17:41 AM PST by Just mythoughts
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To: Reform4Bush
if M Abbas dies soon

He won't die...he will receive a fatal head wound, but will miraculously recover if he is truly Mabus. And the drum beats for his assassination have begun, he has already survived one attempt. Not a believer in Nostradamus, just have a morbid curiosity on the subject : )

34 posted on 02/15/2005 6:24:20 AM PST by ravingnutter
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To: anniegetyourgun
But only a small percentage of Moslems hold the views that are driving the jihadists nowadays. Does this make them not true Moslems?

You might take a look at the No True Scotsman fallacy:

"In particular, members of religious faiths are often charged with employing this fallacy when they say that no true Christian would do something. The term "Christian" is used by such a widely disparate set of people that it has very little meaning when it comes to behaviour."

35 posted on 02/15/2005 6:46:38 AM PST by Junior (FABRICATI DIEM, PVNC)
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To: Junior

Regardless of the strains of Islam, it's all idolatry.


36 posted on 02/15/2005 6:51:44 AM PST by anniegetyourgun
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To: anniegetyourgun

I'm sure they feel the same about Christians.


37 posted on 02/15/2005 6:52:12 AM PST by Junior (FABRICATI DIEM, PVNC)
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To: KateatRFM
In fact, I had young men suggest it was no use saving myself for marriage because The Bomb was imminent ...

Well, at least they gave it a shot. I found discussing philosophy was often enough to get a college girl to ... er ... open up.

38 posted on 02/15/2005 6:53:58 AM PST by Junior (FABRICATI DIEM, PVNC)
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To: Mr. Jeeves

The doctrine of election does not negate the duty/privilege/mandate to serve God and others in this life.


39 posted on 02/15/2005 6:57:24 AM PST by anniegetyourgun
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To: Junior

Of course they do. And both cannot be right. I'll stick with the One I can know personally - rather than a distant, capricious, and arbitrary god.


40 posted on 02/15/2005 6:59:34 AM PST by anniegetyourgun
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To: Reform4Bush
"...you will see these believers absolutely freak out. ...I think Bush is an unlikely Mabus candidate... but I'm keeping my eye on him, just in case!"

Yawwwwn. "Freaking out" is commonplace among religious KOOK zealots on the left and the right (two sides of the same coin).

Boiled down to their essence -there are only two religions in the whole world.

41 posted on 02/15/2005 7:05:01 AM PST by Matchett-PI (Forget "Republican" or "DemocRAT" - Is Jesus a "Moral Relativist"?)
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To: Junior
"... I've actually come across extremely fundamentalist types who figure ...."

We will always have the emotionally immature / spiritually immature among us.

The emotionally mature understand this fact and realize that the kooky ideas that result from such weaknesses can't thwart what the Creator decided to do before the foundation of the earth.

Boiled down to their essence -there are only two religions in the whole world. And that's a fact, agree with it or not.

42 posted on 02/15/2005 7:22:05 AM PST by Matchett-PI (Forget "Republican" or "DemocRAT" - Is Jesus a "Moral Relativist"?)
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To: Junior

>>>I've actually come across extremely fundamentalist types who figure it's not worth sending their kids to college because Jesus will come before the kids can graduate. It doesn't take much to extrapolate this attitude to a kind of nihilism which sees any planning for the future to be a fruitless exercise.>>>

This is a small handful of people who could not in numbers do any real damage to the environment.


43 posted on 02/15/2005 7:26:48 AM PST by sandbar
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To: anniegetyourgun

Some of the imams in Fellujah claimed to be communing with Allah during the fighting there. One could say there god is getting personal, too.


44 posted on 02/15/2005 7:31:47 AM PST by Junior (FABRICATI DIEM, PVNC)
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To: Junior
End is near...

eat more ice cream.
45 posted on 02/15/2005 7:33:26 AM PST by evets (God bless president George W. Bush)
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To: evets

"Jesus is coming. Look busy."


46 posted on 02/15/2005 7:35:26 AM PST by Junior (FABRICATI DIEM, PVNC)
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To: GraniteStateConservative
I've seen Gen 1:26 (And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.) used to justify opposition by Christian conservatives to environmentalism.

With dominion comes responsibility. God expects those whom He appoints to be faithful stewards.

Having said that, "environmentalism" is used to further the thought that we (humans) are the invaders, and population control, and the destruction of capitalism is the answer. Of course, this is 180 degrees from the passage you quoted, so yes, it is in opposition to environmentalism as it's currently practiced.

Conservationism, however, in the tradition of T. Roosevelt, or even T. Nugent (sweaty Teddy!), falls right into line with it.

47 posted on 02/15/2005 7:35:28 AM PST by ovrtaxt (McClellan: Do away with daily press briefings! Come straight to the New Media!)
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To: Reform4Bush
Here... keep your eye on these predictions too:

"Your Horoscope For Today"
By Weird Al

Aquarius
There's travel in your future when your tongue freezes to the back of a speeding bus
Fill that void in your pathetic life by playing Whack-A-Mole seventeen hours a day

Pisces
Try to avoid any Virgos or Leos with the Ebola virus
You are the tru Lord of the Dance, no matter what those idiots at work say

Aries
The look on your face will be priceless when you find that forty pound watermelon in your colon
Trade toothbrushes with an albino dwarf, then give a hickey to Meryl Streep

Taurus
You will never find tru happiness - what you gonna do, cry about it?
The stars predict tomorrow you'll wake up, do a bunch of stuff, and then go back to sleep

That's your horoscope for today (that's your horoscope for today)
That's your horoscope for today
That's your horoscope for today (that's your horoscope for today)
That's your horoscope for today

Gemini
Your birthday party will be ruined once again by your explosive flatulence
Your love life will run into trouble when your fiance hurls a javelin through your chest

Cancer
The position of Jupiter says you should spend the rest of the week face down in the mud
Try not to shove a roll of duct tape up your nose while taking your driver's test

Leo
Now is not a good time to photocopy your butt and staple it to your boss's face, oh no
Eat a bucket of tuna-flavored pudding, then wash it down with a gallon of strawberry Quik

Virgo
All Virgos are extremely friendly and intelligent - except for you
Expect a big surprise today when you wind up with your head impaled on a stick

That's your horoscope for today (that's your horoscope for today)
That's your horoscope for today
That's your horoscope for today (that's your horoscope for today)
That's your horoscope for today

Now you may find it inconceivable or at the very least a bit unlikely
that the relative position of the planets and the stars could have
a special deep significance or meaning that exclusively applies to only you,
but let me give you my assurance that these forcasts and predictions
are all based on solid, scientific, documented evidence, so you would have
to be some kind of moron not to realize that every single one of the is absolutely true.

Where was I?

Libra
A big promotion is just around the corner for someone much more talented that you
Laughter is the very best medicine, remember that when your appendix bursts next week

Scorpio
Get ready for an unexpected trip when you call screaming from an open window
Work a little harder on improving your low self-esteem, you stupid freak

Sagittarius
All your friends are laughing behind your back (kill them)
Take down all those naked pictures of Ernest Borgnine you've got hanging in your den

Capricorn
The stars say that you're an exciting and wonderful person, but you know they're lying
If I were you, I's lock my doors and windows and never never never never never leave my house again

That's your horoscope for today (that's your horoscope for today)
That's your horoscope for today
That's your horoscope for today (that's your horoscope for today)
That's your horoscope for today

That's your horoscope for today (that's your horoscope for today)
That's your horoscope for today
That's your horoscope for today (yay yay yay yay yay)
That's your horoscope for today

48 posted on 02/15/2005 7:44:23 AM PST by 70times7 (An open mind is a cesspool of thought)
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To: Junior

One could say they are Bob Hope.


49 posted on 02/15/2005 7:45:37 AM PST by anniegetyourgun
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To: 70times7

You can't beat Weird Al.


50 posted on 02/15/2005 7:56:52 AM PST by PresbyRev (All truth is God's truth: post tenebras, Lux!)
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